Neopound Overhaul V.2!, Come post your ideas! :)

Many of you may know that Neopound needs some serious updating to get back in shape. It isn't what it used to be, and the active users list is slowly dwindling as time passes by, so in order to remedy this, a few users have gathered up to pool in ideas on how to make the site/forum better.

The following have been mentioned so far:
- Opening up the site to more pet sites than Neopets (aywas, khimeros, wajas, subeta, etc)
- Leaning towards focusing on character creation and other things rather than the Neopets adoption process

Do you guys have anything else to add or have comments to say about what's been suggested? We'd all like Neopound to live, so please share your thoughts, no matter how few they may be!

Feedback would be nice, too, as to how the site currently is.

This is just a discussion. Anything said here will eventually be passed on to Sagira for an OK to start the overhaul, but as of yet, this thread is just here to gather up ideas and suggestions on how Neopound can improve.

We've always been accepting of non-Neo petsites, but I'm all for making them a bigger part of the site if people want it to be. I mean, I don't actively play anything but GPX+, but I always like to look at what people create. I admit that I'm not very active in the "old core" of Neopound, namely application-making... for a variety of reasons, but it would take me a while to explain them. Let's just say that I would like to see people talk about their existing pets on petsites more than I like to look at applications, I guess. (Also I would be willing to make Pokémon OCs out of some of my pokemans, pfffffft.)

The thing about character creation is... how exactly would we focus on it? What is a concrete way to focus on that? OC contests? I have no idea how to work on something like that, but if I did, I would love to implement them and work on them.

Dude, I'd be with you there on the whole pokemon OC thing. x3

But I think for the character creation thing, we could always hold contests and stuff to increase activity, but in general, the forum could just be split up into multiple site categories, and then there'd be basically what we have in the Character Creation subforums there?

Then the main focus could be, like, critiquing/creating/drawing/etc characters and stuff, I guess? Just like a creative community.

as someone who regularly tries to host contests and events offering both art and rl prizes (dA subs, nc, itunes, etc.) i can tell you that they will gather lots of interest and v little results!

its a good idea but people aren't v good w/ carrying through
i think of anything art exchanges are the most successful type of activity, and even w/ those you need to be on top of people to make sure they finish, and you still usually have that one really nice person who does an extra bit to compensate for others slack


as for just a community focused on character development and whatnot
i like the idea, and that's what we made the character creation board for! but it doesn't get much attn cuz people just.... don't do it? its a good idea in theory, but you need members who are both willing to share about their characters and whatnot, and ones that actually care about other people's work- which is a p hard thing to find. most people are willing to give a click glance over a design and say CUTE but v few people actually take the time to read what others have to say and get to know their characters and stuff like that.
that is why AA has basically died- plenty of people willing to show off their art, no one willing to comment on others art

basically we need less self centered people to join ffffffff


(also including pokemon OCs would be BA)

i feel like dA may be a viable way to go about this
make some kind of dA group that attracts people, and have this be the main forum connect to it?

I miss that like i forgot what its called but its a drawing pad site where all neopound users get to post their art in this small forum. i really like that..

Probably not exactly the most qualified person to comment but here I go anyway.

I can say I basically joined because I was applying for pets, somewhere to get intelligent comments on your apps is cool, and also because I like critiquing stuff and you can't really do that on Neo forums with the character limit. Personally I don't play any other sites so that wouldn't be really what drew me here, I can't really say sections about other sites would interest me but if others play those sites there's no reason for them not to be here.

From my perspective I prefer getting advice on and also critting apps rather than just petpages/ideas because they have an actual, defined purpose - i.e. make the foster like your character idea. Petpages and stuff can be much more just whatever you like - there's not necessarily any actual purpose to them other than to be pretty. Still, if there were an active place to comment on character creation I'm sure it would be fun to participate in.

However the activity of something like this, as you say, reaaally depends on the people willing to contribute. I myself was /slightly/ put off by a particular incident of getting accused of flaming someone for giving them an honest crit. Could there maybe be some sort of better umm... procedure in place for requesting crit of stuff? So that people understand that when they ask for an honest crit, someone is not trying to bash them, but to help them - or, they can just ask for compliments if they don't really want people to tell them what is wrong.

In my early days of internetting I was a member of a bunch of various web design, roleplaying etc communities and something that stood out was the designation of certain roles - something that might fit here would be a group of people assigned to offering comments, crits or advice on people's work. Maybe separate categories for art, writing, petpages, etc, something like the forums you guys have at the moment but a more defined system. I've often read over stuff posted here but often find myself hesitating before offering honest opinions, because I am just not sure what people are after - gushing 'yay it's amazing and perfectly lovely!' or real proper comments.

I really feel like if it was a character creation place it would benefit from a straightforward but still controlled system - e.g. people whose 'role' it is to provide crits of stuff if others want it - maybe those assigned to this could apply or be appointed in a similar way you might 'hire' mods. There could be a separate place to post things for 'official' comments and just for general sharing where anyone can comment. That way people are guaranteed to get some sort of response if they want it.

I feel like as someone who's not necessarily the most internet-sociable of people this community is pretty friendly and sometimes kind of puts itself down, yes okay from some people's point of view it might seem a little cliquey but everywhere is like that at least to some extent.

One thing that has really struck me is the moderation of the forums. I've seen a fair bit of criticism about it (e.g. mods not being involved or something) but actually, from what I have seen the modding is pretty good. When a discussion is getting too dramatic and offensive, someone posts to say it's not okay to do that and if the conversation goes on, bans will take place. That (imo) is how modding should be done: let people know the boundaries and what the punishments are, and then follow through. It seems like sometimes people come here to air their Neo dirty laundry, which is fine if it's a sensible discussion but usually they aren't and just turn into bashing.

Regarding the contest idea. I've seen a bunch of cool contests on and around Neo (NNTM springs to mind which is an idea I find hilarious and awesome although I've never participated in) but like has been said, a lot of these get interest at first but nothing comes of it. For me personally I don't regard art as a strong point for me so I wouldn't be likely to enter something like that (or the art exchanges that often happen here - it's rare I do something that I'm actually happy with and I'm bad at doing it on demand so I don't participate) but something like a character-building contest sounds cool. Though tbh what I'd really really really like die to see would be a web design/building activity of some sort. Creative problem solving with coding is one of my favourite things to do.

lol giant post, I'll shush now.

random but i always felt you give pretty ba crits, fluer. not many people are willing to give such in dept crits!
if someone yells at you for them, then they are just being stupid, don't let over sensitive people make you shy away (o o)9

To be brutally honest, I don't really see these ideas working. (although, I'd be very happy to be proven wrong!!)

In the past, some of us site admins have brought up:
1) adding/removing certain sections
2) adding an UFT UC search system
3) a new layout for the main site
and as you can see, none of these things have happened!

We've also all considered changing the actual forums (I believe there was a sort of contest in regard to designing a new layout? - something else that never went through.)


I figure that to make changes to the actual main page, you'd want people who have experience in HTML/CSS and PHP - while most of us are pretty good at the former, the majority of people here have no knowledge about PHP. And while you could always find someone outside of this community to help, I figure most people would expect payment.

I had some other things in my head, but it's dinner time right now. 'might add a few more pessimistic things later on.

Alright, well the thing about the main site is that we really can't do anything about it without Sagira/Drew around. They're the only ones at the moment that can access the FTP for the main site and actually edit it, so while we may be willing to help out and can find someone who can code PHP and such, we're still helpless because those two aren't on.

I had actually been working on a forum layout, but after no one posted on the thread anymore, I kinda gave up because it'd feel weird to be the only one to turn in anything.

Neopian Graphics where most of the questions about coding are answered; it doesn't get that many posts, though, but I'd like a separate coding forum too. It seems like fun, hehe, especially since I'm one of those kinds of people that love figuring out problems in coding as well.

And finally, I'm really fond of the idea of 'appointing' critics, but there're a few problems with that, I think. One, users without the title would probably feel discouraged at first to critique an application, and two, the appointed critics might get lazy (we could always strip them of their title, but still).

Hearty, I totally understand the whole lots of interest, lack of results thing. That's the thing about things like these (ahaha, so specific) - if no one's willing to do it, it won't get done. However, Neopound's kind of been slower than usual lately, so if we want to give it a little burst of life to it, then the least we could do is try.

And then if it fails, oh well. At least it was attempted.



... I know I skipped stuff, but I'll get back to that later. >>
It's too early in the morning for a decent reply, sorry guys.

I don't have a problem with the forums, but as previously said the main site is terribly outdated. New guides need to be written.

Also, I didn't notice all of the graphics until now. I knew we had makeables... I am sure a lot of the coding doesn't work anymore.


More desu?

The site probably hasn't been updated in a million years except for the update. O:
I can talk to Sagira about it if it's become that dire for a change, but at this point in time, we're still waiting for a new database manager to be appointed, so until then, nothing on the site can be updated, unless it's through Sagira or Drew, unfortunately.

The coding probably doesn't even work anymore, unless it's just an image or something, eheheh. o3o

I noticed we now have a small blurb if you're not signed in. :) That's new?
& I know, old topic, but I dunno, neopound feels like its slowly wasting away (nooo).
I kind of wanna work on a new forum layout in hopes it attracts a new community...
but I wonder what kind of forum banner would look nice? Should neopound have a mascot?

I never noticed that either. O: /checks

And a new layout would be nice to have, yes. And then we can also try to get word out on the PC somehow? I can also put a link to /~NeoOddOnes on my application guide to maybe attract more users.

If anything, I think a new forum banner would be awesome, and I've never been too big on mascots, but maybe an elephante of some sort since that's what's on the main site?

Whenever I see people looking for UFA pets on the PC, I always ask them if they checked Neopound (especially if they're looking for something specific and there are some of them listed here), and if they don't get what I mean (usually you can tell because they think you're talking about the actual Neopets pound xD), then I link them to /~NeoOddOnes. So... maybe a 'word-of-mouth' approach like that might be a very affective advertising technique if more people started doing it.

I've been doing that recently too. Also been trying to get my own foster to put her pets up on here, but she wants to wait until she gets the rules down before doing that.

I might add it to my sig since I have nothing else to put there. O:

I have a banner on one of my lookups.
I could add them to my other accounts and shop.

I wonder if we could organize a chat group board on the PC like TNO does...
Of course, we're not as organized as they are with their UFA pets. They have that petpage that links to a bunch of their foster pages, but most TNO members are frequent foster parents... we're more largely composed of more 'one-time' adoptions than regulars. Maybe we could start a page that highlights our latest pets added (kind of like the latest 21 page but on a petpage on Neo). Have someone update it maybe once a week or so (it doesn't have to be super updated, so long as it's at least once a month). It could be like a preview to what we do. And of course, we can link to our regulars' foster pages, too. (Or even anyone who requests can be put into a temporary link section to be removed once their pets get adopted out.)
So... maybe our chat group could be our own version of an 'app chat' combined with a UFA pet advertising board (yeah! stealin' everyone's chat group ideas and mashin' em together! xD). I say this because our forums are more applicant-oriented than foster. People post foster ads here because they want our community to notice them, because... we apply for pets. xD


Anyway, just some thoughts. If we reach out on Neo more, we're sure to attract more attention. I see TNO advertising through their chat group nearly every time I enter the PC, so I don't see why we can't try the same.


(Oh, and I'd be willing to start the sort of page I was describing myself.)

I was actually thinking about that earlier, about TNO, while I was thinking of other ways to advertise. I plan on coding a new lookup, so Neopound will get a special feature on my lookup, someway or another.

I like the idea of a chat group, but how will we find enough users online to make one and keep it alive? Also, is it just a board for advertising UFA pets, or will it actually be like a chat?

Yeah, maybe adding an app chat sort of deal will work too. Be like, "We can give short critiques here, but check out our forums to get in-depth ones!" since so many users are desperate for critiques on the PC with so few users willing to do them because of how fast the boards move.

I dunno. It's an idea. o:

If you want to do it though, I'm game.
(also, if you want to hose the page, that'd be great. Do you have free petpages though?)

Hm... well, I think probably a good number of the people already here are already fairly active on the PC, so we could just make sure they know about it and maybe we can encourage people to start hanging out there. And... we could probably have a topic here on the forum for posting our current board link, so if it dies for a while someone could revive it later. If we do succeed in attracting more people, I think it will become easier to keep it up.

I really like the idea of giving application critiques for applications, since we do that anyway here. That should definitely be part of it. Um... I think we'll work out a first-post message that links to page I want to make and to /~NeoOddOnes. People could be free to post links to their own UFA pets if they like. And, of course, everyone can feel free to chat, too. I don't think that it should just be to advertise. That would be hard to keep up because just bumping a board gets boring... xD

Um... I have two different pets that I'm considering to host the page. So, yeah, I'll be able to host it. I just need to choose which one I'd want to use.

Ah, that's definitely true. I think starting up a thread here beforehand would be a good idea so we can organize things about how want to look first. Then we can have like a copy and paste post or something in the first post for those who want to make a board on the PC. I can sticky it, too.

BUT BACKTRACKING A BIT...

What should be on the page?

Should it basically explain what Neopound is and how to get there? Maybe having a section of on-site UFA pets would be a good idea too, for users who are wary of going offsite for Neo-related things.

Then we can also have something about the application critiquing process, where the person can get a quick first look on the board unless the critic wants to give more, and if they want a more in-depth review, they can sign up here.

This also gives them a sort of a taste of what we do here, I guess? Maybe if they like how we work, they'll become more active here and may try to pitch in as well, in terms of critique, because I know that not everyone is willing to review apps and such all the time.

I like the idea though. Hopefully it works! I have /~NeoOddOnes in my sig now, but I can't tell if people are actually checking it out.

I think that sums up what I was already planning for it pretty well, yes.
I could add something about the critiquing and our forums, too.
Yeah, I think the point of the page will be to show people what we are as both a adoption agency sort of thing and as a community.

Maybe something like this (example page only):
http://www.neopets.com/~Glayfie

I like it. ^^

And yeah, something about the critiques and the forums would be a good idea, I think. Other than that, I don't really know what else to suggest.

/~NeoOddOnes is a bit outdated though... But it's the safest way to advertise the site because if a page is going to get cleared, it'll be that one? xP

Awesome. I'll let you know when I get it sorted out.
I think something like this will work for now, and if we need to change it later, it shouldn't be too difficult.

Yeah, I know. I don't think that many of the AGA guilds even still alive. I know I looked through the page before a while back and several of them were deleted even. xD

Wow. xDD
Maybe some of them were purged too? Totally a possibility.

Anyway, no rush on things! If you can't get to writing the page today, that's completely fine. The weekend is more suitable to work on things like this because it gives you time to sort out your thoughts and such. Weekdays... not so much, especially with work/school.

I can probably code a layout too, if needed. 8)

Yeah, I probably won't get to it today.
I actually need to get off the computer soon and finish homework. xD

I could probably make the layout myself, but if you want to, that would be cool, too.
I'm fine with whatever.
I was thinking about doing something kind of similar to the premade I'm using for the example. With the different sections and the navigation on top somewhere. I kind of like the basic design of it.

Yeah, I like the basic design of it too. o:
If you want to though, I won't stop you. It'd probably be better if you did, too, because then you can work the layout to fit the content instead of the other way around.

making a new neopound petpage that describes neopound/showcases our newest pets would be a good idea O:

then we can link to the NeoOddOnes page on that, so if something gets cleared, it's still that one ffff

if the new page was made, then you could even make a news post saying "hey guys put this banner on your lookup" to try and get some advertising. there are quite a few pc'ers that lurk here and every bit of exposure helps!

it'd be nice to establish a welcome team so that when we get new people, some people are sure to post on the newbies board to greet them.
same for app crit- i actually like to read apps and would be happy to give feedback on them, but because the boards are so slow, i often do not notice when there are new boards fff having kind of a reminder system- someone in charge of pm'ing people on welcome/crit teams to let them know theres a new board- would be a good way to keep people on it

also advertising boards on the pc are a good idea, i'd be happy to help bump them. i am not good at staying active in chats because i multitask online, but i'm good at posting smilies inbetween activities fffff

also dorothy your app guide is really popular, linking on that would prolly get it good exposure |D

Yeah, having banners on our lookups would be a good idea too, and I guess ~maybe~ we can try revamping the premades and stuff so we can advertise through those, as well?

The thing about new posts is that I just kinda look at the "Active Threads List" or whatever it is down there at the bottom of the index page. Shows me what's been posted in within the last 24 hours.

I'd be more than happy to send out mass PMs to teams about those kinds of things, though. We'd just have to find people willing to do that. x3

I thought I already linked to Neopound on my app guide? I guess I haven't, so I'll go do that, aha.

i think being able to offer premade lookup/pet page coding would be a big selling point O: cuz a lot of first time applyers don't know how to cde

and you might fff
i haven't looked at your app guid in a while! just the way you talked about it made me think you didn't, oops

i noticed a lot of app chats is more focused on random chatting... if we could find a way to really sell this place as "this is where you go to get app critiques" i think it could really help out neopound!
i notice that sometimes people would ask for rates and stuff and others would either ignore them or just say "looks nice"
the trick is getting people here fffff

if a petpage advertising np was made though, that would prolly be a good start so we could have boards like TNO does

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. o:
Plus, a lot of the premades out there aren't that nice, and the nice ones keep getting used over and over again. It'd be nice to have some variation, too.

I haven't looked at it either, aha. I checked and it didn't link to Neopound, but now it links ~twice~. Once at the top and once somewhere near the beginning. Yeah. Hopefully that'll bring some visitors over. o:

I think all we really have to do is critique on-board. It doesn't have to be that detailed, but as long as they can tell that we're serious about critiquing, they'll be more likely to check it out than if we gave out number ratings and stuff.

Okay, I've been working on the page content just in the premade (I won't have time to make a new layout until this weekend).

This is what I have so far:
http://www.neopets.com/~Glayfie
(That's not going to be the final location of the page, by the way; I just needed somewhere convenient to work with it right now)

Tell me what you think?
And help me with the 'community' section, please? I'm not sure what to write about it, so I put up some random junk that I thought sounded nice. xD


Anyway, I think premades could be cool, too.
Especially since Neopound used to offer some anyway. Most of those don't work anymore due to Neopet's coding changes, though.