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Pages: (8) « First ... 6 7 [8]  ( Go to first unread post ) U-Sector Supporters of Toronto FC, USector, U Sector, MLS, Soccer, Football, Fansalt='U-SectorU-Sector Supporters of Toronto FC, USector, U Sector, MLS, Soccer, Football, Fans

U-Sector Supporters of Toronto FC, USector, U Sector, MLS, Soccer, Football, Fans May 16: Vancouver Whitecaps vs. Toronto FC [R], Pre-Match / Matchday Thread
Ultra & Proud
Posted: May 17 2012, 09:59 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan Keay @ May 17 2012, 09:32 AM)
QUOTE (BHTC Mike @ May 17 2012, 10:15 AM)
QUOTE (Ultra & Proud @ May 17 2012, 09:44 AM)
98 out of 100 times that volley would go rugby style into the great beyond, especially in MLS. That was just one of those things where everything hit perfectly. I can live with that. It wasn't a cheap goal like most of the 18 we've given up so far this season.

No doubt.

Most of the time the cross is over hit, a player in Hassli's position tries to bring the ball down with a heavy touch, or the shot goes into row Z. From their perspective they did everything way better than you'd expect at just about any level; that goal doesn't come off most times in leagues far better than MLS. But, as a defender, you don't rely on that. You defend against the 1 out of 100 chance by limiting Hassli's space.

Don't get me wrong: I'm really happy with last night's perfomance and result but their was some really slack marking that contributed to the goal. It felt like our team felt the game was over and didn't see it out.

Likewise, I'm quite happy with the game last night and don't want to scapegoat Henry.
It's just one of those things that happens when you have young, inexperienced defenders.

Playing reserve games and CSL games, you can give a striker in the position Hassli's in space cause they're not going to be able to pull something like that off (except in cases of pure fluke.) Now, as a pro, he has to learn that some players can pull that off and close down quicker. It's a learning experience.

Even though Hassli has shown glimpses of class with goals, I'd still call that at least 40% fluke too. I've seen him totally boner easier chances than that before. And I'm talking Carl Robinson level bonering.
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BHTC Mike
Posted: May 17 2012, 10:31 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan Keay @ May 17 2012, 10:32 AM)
Likewise, I'm quite happy with the game last night and don't want to scapegoat Henry.

Again, agreed. It's just pushback against the "there's no defending that" meme that always pops up after a goal like that.

Same with Pontius' a week and a half ago. Very good strike - actually one I'd expect to see scored more often but really well taken - but something that will happen if you give good attacking players time and space between the posts around the edge of your box. No one (Aceval mostly in that case) closed him down and he delivered. DC's had him and Santos doing it all year.

And I'll even agree with Ultra: there's a goodly amount of fluke in Hassli's goal. You're not going to convince me he was intending to slice it upper near corner. It was a sweet hit but he was just as likely trying to shoot across Kocic.

This post has been edited by BHTC Mike on May 17 2012, 10:32 AM
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Ryan Keay
Posted: May 17 2012, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (Ultra & Proud @ May 17 2012, 10:59 AM)
QUOTE (Ryan Keay @ May 17 2012, 09:32 AM)
QUOTE (BHTC Mike @ May 17 2012, 10:15 AM)
QUOTE (Ultra & Proud @ May 17 2012, 09:44 AM)
98 out of 100 times that volley would go rugby style into the great beyond, especially in MLS. That was just one of those things where everything hit perfectly. I can live with that. It wasn't a cheap goal like most of the 18 we've given up so far this season.

No doubt.

Most of the time the cross is over hit, a player in Hassli's position tries to bring the ball down with a heavy touch, or the shot goes into row Z. From their perspective they did everything way better than you'd expect at just about any level; that goal doesn't come off most times in leagues far better than MLS. But, as a defender, you don't rely on that. You defend against the 1 out of 100 chance by limiting Hassli's space.

Don't get me wrong: I'm really happy with last night's perfomance and result but their was some really slack marking that contributed to the goal. It felt like our team felt the game was over and didn't see it out.

Likewise, I'm quite happy with the game last night and don't want to scapegoat Henry.
It's just one of those things that happens when you have young, inexperienced defenders.

Playing reserve games and CSL games, you can give a striker in the position Hassli's in space cause they're not going to be able to pull something like that off (except in cases of pure fluke.) Now, as a pro, he has to learn that some players can pull that off and close down quicker. It's a learning experience.

Even though Hassli has shown glimpses of class with goals, I'd still call that at least 40% fluke too. I've seen him totally boner easier chances than that before. And I'm talking Carl Robinson level bonering.

Absolutely, I mean, he could have totally scuffed that shot. More often than not he doesn't hit it that well. But when it comes to what Henry's used to, its from 1 out of 1000 chance to, say, 1 in 5. He'll get it, though.
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Ultra & Proud
Posted: May 17 2012, 10:55 AM
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QUOTE (Ryan Keay @ May 17 2012, 10:32 AM)
But when it comes to what Henry's used to, its from 1 out of 1000 chance to, say, 1 in 5. He'll get it, though.

Oh totally. I see nothing but upside with him and I fully understand what happened and why it happened to him and I write it up as a learning experience for him. No excuses and it cost us but as you said, these things are expected to happen to young defenders. I trust he can learn from it. Maybe the old dog, new tricks thing but Aceval's been burned worse and repeatedly and I see Henry as someone who has shown that they can learn from their mistakes. His progress during the past year and a half, with very limited playing time, is amazing to me.

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Scotty
Posted: May 17 2012, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE (sstackho @ May 16 2012, 10:29 PM)
I'm just curious some refs have a Canada patch on their shirt while others have a FIFA patch.  Is that a credentials thing?

Yeah, its a grading thing ..... referees are graded internally by their country's association(s) and the top refs are recommended to FIFA by those associations for accreditation with them. Once accredited with FIFA they can officiate at international tournaments (World Cup etc).

This page may be of interest: http://paulgouda.homestead.com/Referee.html

Canada currently has 3 FIFA graded referees (men): David Gantar (somehow!!!), Silviu Petrescu, and Paul Ward
Canada also has 4 FIFA Assistant Refs (men): Daniel Belleau, Philippe Briere, Darren Clarke, Joseph Fletcher

In the women's game, Carol Anne Chenard (who has refereed 3 Voyageurs Cup games involving TFC) is also FIFA listed as is Michelle Pye. Marie Josee Charbonneau and Suzanne Morriset are FIFA graded assistants.



EDIT: 'MLS approved' Canadian refs as follows ..... the ones marked FIFA will wear a FIFA badge, the ones marked national will wear a Canada flag when officiating in MLS (or Voyageurs) .... think it was #5 Fischer last night

Referees
1. Silviu Petrescu (ON, FIFA)
2. Paul Ward (BC, FIFA)
3. David Gantar (AB, FIFA)
4. Geoff Gamble (ON, National)
5. Drew Fischer (AB, National)
6. Mathieu Bourdeau (QC, National)

Assistant Referees
1. Joe Fletcher (ON, FIFA)
2. Philippe Briere (QC, FIFA)
3. Daniel Belleau (QC, FIFA)
4. Darren Clark (BC, FIFA)
5. Kevin Duliba (BC, National)
6. Marco Arruda (BC, National)

This post has been edited by Scotty on May 17 2012, 12:10 PM
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kompot
Posted: May 17 2012, 12:29 PM
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... a bit late to the Hassli goal discussion, but I'd like to add;

1. The build-up that goal came from a miss-timed challenge by DuGuzman that led to a unencumbered cross, that then led to a goal. As others mentioned, there were plenty of opportunities to disrupt the 'perfect goal'.

2. I can't blame Henry for the goal much though. He was well positioned to intercept the ball if Hassli had tapped it to bring it down. Instead, he struck it out of the air, and here we are today.
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BHTC Mike
Posted: May 17 2012, 09:37 PM
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One last little thing. Folks "over there" are grossly overstating the importance of our away goal.

The good part of our result is that it was a draw: any win and we're through. That'd be the same whether it was 0-0, 2-2, or 3-3. As it is our away goal only opens up one other possible scoreline, 0-0, in the second leg as a way to advance. Any other draw sees either extra time or our elimination. I don't think most people would feel comfortable with us trying to grind out a 0-0 at home and always being one fluke goal away from elimination.

Where away goals really matter is when you LOSE the away leg. Get the draw first though and, most of the time, you should just forget about the away goal because your approach for the second leg should focus on winning outright.
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Free kick
Posted: May 17 2012, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (Aljarov @ May 17 2012, 08:48 AM)
Solid result not withstanding, has any team EVER given up more last minute or so/INJ time goals than us?


The substitutions may have had a lot to do with that. Instead of adding defensive help and support, all three substitutions were straight swaps of attack minded players for attack minded players. Or, fwds for fwds.

I did not understand that one at all. Maybe thats why we are getting scored on late in games so often.

This post has been edited by Free kick on May 17 2012, 09:41 PM
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Free kick
Posted: May 17 2012, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE (BHTC Mike @ May 17 2012, 09:37 PM)
One last little thing.  Folks "over there" are grossly overstating the importance of our away goal.

The good part of our result is that it was a draw: any win and we're through.  That'd be the same whether it was 0-0, 2-2, or 3-3.  As it is our away goal only opens up one other possible scoreline, 0-0, in the second leg as a way to advance.  Any other draw sees either extra time or our elimination.  I don't think most people would feel comfortable with us trying to grind out a 0-0 at home and always being one fluke goal away from elimination.

Where away goals really matter is when you LOSE the away leg.  Get the draw first though and, most of the time, you should just forget about the away goal because your approach for the second leg should focus on winning outright.

Yes. That same thought crossed my mind. Also, comming home with a 1-0 lead means that the visitors would have had to score two goals no matter what. You are in a good position when your opponents has to score two goals in an away match.

This post has been edited by Free kick on May 17 2012, 09:49 PM
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bgnewf
Posted: May 17 2012, 10:25 PM
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confused yet?


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Don't Let A Wonder Goal Get you Down!

http://viewfromthesouthstands.com/2012/05/v-cup-2012-leg-1

Some video musings post game after Toronto FC got a well deserved draw away at Vancouver in the first leg of the 2012 Voyageurs Cup Final.
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Sochaux
Posted: May 17 2012, 11:05 PM
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Does anyone know if Corey Wray (Manager, Team Operations) was on the bench or near any of the coaching staff at the Vancouver away game?

He was definitely ostracized from the bench at the last Montréal home game/victory. A first since Winter's inception to the TFC team.

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dbailey62
Posted: May 17 2012, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE (Sochaux @ May 17 2012, 11:05 PM)
Does anyone know if Corey Wray (Manager, Team Operations) was on the bench or near any of the coaching staff at the Vancouver away game?

He was definitely ostracized from the bench at the last Montréal home game/victory. A first since Winter's inception to the TFC team.

Are you sure he was ostracized or could he have been absent for other reasons ie personal?

Was he seen elsewhere in the stadium?
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Sochaux
Posted: May 18 2012, 01:02 AM
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QUOTE (dbailey62 @ May 17 2012, 11:51 PM)
Are you sure he was ostracized or could he have been absent for other reasons ie personal?

Was he seen elsewhere in the stadium?

In the Montréal game, no chair was placed for him and he stood through both halves of the match at the extreme south of the "dug-out" beside the guy who dispenses the gatorade. This was unique in personal game day pattern.

Noticeable to me, as he usually sat on the bench (chairs), perpetually shuffling a group of papers and trying to inform coaching staff of "unknown-to-us-things". Not at this Montréal game. He might as well have been filling Gatorade bottles. (I took a picture with my iphone).

I ask the question, because he reports to Earl Cochrane. Just sayin'........
After this we had the game aftermath of the De Klerk "promotion" and the Jimmie B. appointment, preceding the away game in Vancouver.

So, was he on the bench in Vancouver?
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Shaun
Posted: May 18 2012, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE (Sochaux @ May 18 2012, 02:02 AM)
QUOTE (dbailey62 @ May 17 2012, 11:51 PM)
Are you sure he was ostracized or could he have been absent for other reasons ie personal?

Was he seen elsewhere in the stadium?

In the Montréal game, no chair was placed for him and he stood through both halves of the match at the extreme south of the "dug-out" beside the guy who dispenses the gatorade. This was unique in personal game day pattern.

No chair placed for him at Olympic Stadium? If the person responsible for chair placement is the same person who is in charge of making sure the linesman's substitution board is working, then I'm not gonna read too much into this.

Besides, maybe he wanted to stand and not be a sitting target for concrete debris that fell from the roof.
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kompot
Posted: May 18 2012, 07:51 AM
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QUOTE (BHTC Mike @ May 17 2012, 09:37 PM)
One last little thing. Folks "over there" are grossly overstating the importance of our away goal.

The good part of our result is that it was a draw: any win and we're through. That'd be the same whether it was 0-0, 2-2, or 3-3. As it is our away goal only opens up one other possible scoreline, 0-0, in the second leg as a way to advance. Any other draw sees either extra time or our elimination. I don't think most people would feel comfortable with us trying to grind out a 0-0 at home and always being one fluke goal away from elimination.

Where away goals really matter is when you LOSE the away leg. Get the draw first though and, most of the time, you should just forget about the away goal because your approach for the second leg should focus on winning outright.

Agreed.

With two attacking teams and our 'evolving' defense, the likelihood of a 0-0 draw is pretty slim. Were down to winner takes all final with the only advantage being tat were playing at home.
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