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Title: Conference Expansion Push 2011


VTHokie - August 11, 2011 09:58 PM (GMT)
So here we are.... summer ending and practice beginning and the season is a-coming. Yet, suddenly rumors are heating up about the SEC and future expansion.... which is probably a near certainty.

What we have learned in the past week or so is that it has gone from Texas A&M being in position to listen if/when the SEC would come calling to an almost near certainty that A&M will be an SEC program in the next few years.

The main question is who else is there? Certainly the SEC isn't going to expand to 13. IMO, this is the only thing holding up A&M's invite.

Virginia Tech is one of the main programs being thrown out... and IMO, for good reason. While the Hokies do have a small (and difficult to expand) stadium, they do have a rabid fanbase, a solid (though recently mellowing) travelling base, very good facilities.... and the most important thing, a new market. VT would bring not just the Western Virginia... but would essentially add a second Mid-Atlantic program to the SEC, officially making the Mid-Atlantic SEC territory. The DC area in particular has a VERY large number of alums from VT (which is a large land grant university with an enrollment north of 30K). I shudder to think about what the VT program could become with SEC membership. It would be the only in-state SEC option in one of the nation's most underrated recruiting grounds. Not to mention that North Carolina has a very large number of recruits as well.

The problem with VT however is that IMO, it is very, VERY unlikely that the Hokie athletic department would even accept the invitation to join. The ACC in itself is also very much an academic league and large quantities of money come into the university's academic side by way of ACC membership. While the athletic dept may salivate at the opportunity to jump, I think the high brass would be very reluctant and would not want to budge.

More likely (after VT's private rejection of the SEC's private offer), the SEC will go after Clemson or Florida State. Florida would fight FSU's entry, but the addition of a new serious rivalry to the league would be too much for the rest of the league to pass up. Clemson will also be discussed and will seriously be in the mix if the league goes 16.... with Oklahoma being the Western addition.

Then the SEC doesn't even have to reshuffle divisions. Simply add ATM and OU to the West. Add FSU and Clemson to the East.

As for what will happen after that, I see the Big 12 collapsing anyway. Look for Pitt and Syracuse (in the ACC's top 3 in the first round of expansion, until UVA blocked any ACC expansion that did not include VT) to get the replacement invites.

Astro - August 12, 2011 04:21 AM (GMT)
Damn Kentucky would block Louisville from ever being the SEC.. Then again I'm not too disappointed in having a much easier road to a BCS bowl, being in the best basketball conference, and not being associated with a conference that is chalked full of cheaters

Per SI: Texas A&M is all but a given. Oklahoma would be next on their list. Following that they would be interested in Louisville/Clemson/Virginia Tech/Missouri. With the article stating the Louisville/Clemson would be at the top of the list and Virginia Tech/Missouri as secondary considerations

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/...ooking-secs-way

I just don't see UK or South Carolina being ok with the inclusion of Louisville or Clemson.

I would think Missouri would be more likely to be in the SEC in the future, with most of the same reasons VTHokie gave as reasons against VT joining.

Missouri's stadium holds 71,000. Clemson's holds 80,000. Louisville's holds 55,000. Louisville's stadium is easily expandable, they just finished an expansion last season.

It, pretty much, comes down to which program is more attractive. Depending on how quickly they want to expand. If they want to expand with 2 teams this season or next, I believe that Missouri is the most likely candidate to go with Texas A&M. This is assuming that South Carolina tries to block Clemson. If it is a few seasons I believe that Louisville or Clemson is more likely.

If I was the SEC I would go after Virginia Tech before Louisville/Clemson/Missouri. I would want the Virginia television market. They already have UK for Kentucky's market (I see sites talking about adding Louisville as the 49th biggest market in the country, but most of UK's games are on here aswell). With South Carolina you already gett SC's market. With the addition of Texas A&M you are already getting a majority of Texas and, most likely, can cross over into Missouri.

Virginia Tech gives you a brand new market.

Raider - August 12, 2011 01:50 PM (GMT)
From what I hear, Aggy to SEC is just waiting on a formal announcement. I do think it is a good move for them, but I think their fans aren't quite in touch with reality. They will make good money and be in many marquee games....but they will be very much middle of the pack in the SEC. I see them being along the lines of a South Carolina. Sure they'll field some good teams, but it's incredibly tough to get over the hump and challenge for the conference (and therefore national) title.

I cannot stand the idea of four sixteen team superconferences. For one, it makes everything pretty retarded, geographically. Second, it'll be much harder for genuine rivalries to develop. And finally, unless a playoff system were to arise, this is going to very much increase the gap between the "BCS" superconferences and all the rest. There are some fringe teams that are going to get left out of the big boy party. Teams like Maryland, Louisville, Rutgers, Kansas, Kansas State, and unfortunately, Texas Tech just to name a few. Unless we're part of a Pac16 package, we're screwed.

Texas is going to be the wildcard in the coming years. With their TV deal, they might have burned bridges with the Pac1X, and the Big10(12) already has a network set up, plus Nebraska will hang themselves in their closet if UT joined. If the superconference setup happens, UT going independent isn't likely. My guess is after aggy leaves, UT does not allow the Big12(9) to expand and we limp along for another season or two until the tipping point when UT either goes indy (if the political climate of CFB allows it at the time), goes to the Big10+, or is part of a Pac 16 expansion with OU, OSU, and TTU.

I like that Tech is nutting up and resisting the Longhorn Network (ESPN)'s attempt at bullying us into playing nice, but I think we'll cave pretty soon and bend back over. Our chancellor is pretty adamant and shows some brass ones, so anything can happen, but I've been around a while and know how it works. I will say this, though - The LHN is a big moneymaker, but it's also burning bridges rapidly for UT.

VTHokie - August 12, 2011 10:22 PM (GMT)
Looks like Florida State is rapidly emerging as the second team in this round of expansion. IMO, Florida's approval is all that is needed here, and it looks more and more like they'd be willing.

Man.... if this happens and there's a round of expansion to 16, that VT is on that train to the SEC.... but I have a feeling that that won't happen and that Clemson would be the eastern SEC addition.

I think what you're going to see is three 16 team super-conferences (SEC, Big 16 (Big 10), and Pac-16), three "buffer" conferences (ACC, Big 12, MWC), and three mid-majors (CUSA, MAC, SBC). Most of the mid-major conferences will consist of current MAC/SBC teams and a few 1-AA teams who will make the leap to 1-A ball. I also wouldn't be shocked to see some of (if not all of) the "mid-major" conferences drop to a new "1-AA" classification which would also include the current high FCS level conferences (CAA/Big Sky) and then a 1-AAA which would include the low level FCS schools.

Statalyzer - August 16, 2011 04:06 AM (GMT)
I don't like the idea of having just a few mega conferences, and I don't like the trend towards conference TV networks either.

I don't think Texas will go independent. I think Big 12 expansion depends on if BYU is willing to reconsider going independent after a couple of years. Notre Dame is a 100 to 1 longshot, and New Mexico, TCU, Houston, Memphis, those guys ain't going to cut it by themselves (one of them plus ND or BYU might work out). But you gotta get enough compensation or else it's not worth it to split the money into two extra piles.

Even though A&M might still end up in the SEC, the case of premature ejaculation on the part of the Aggies was still pretty funny.

QUOTE
Unless we're part of a Pac16 package, we're screwed.


If A&M goes SEC and then the Big 12 falls apart, there's a good chance Texas and Oklahoma stay together, and would probably take Texas Tech and Okie State with them.

VTHokie - August 23, 2011 03:45 PM (GMT)
As the conference expansion talk simmers, it appears talks are still ongoing with Texas A&M. Inevitably, they will be jumping ship, it's just a matter of when. Word I'm hearing still is that VT will refuse a jump to the SEC even if offered... but VT seems to be a backburner idea anyways.

Not looking forward to a VT in a watered-down ACC though. Hopefully FSU and Clemson stay put though, but if offered, I'm not holding my breath.

TexasTech - August 23, 2011 07:43 PM (GMT)
I think aggy is full of s**t. I have little doubt that they'll end up in the SEC eventually, but I think they're getting WAY ahead of themselves, and here's why:

1) Time is ticking. They've got a week to push this crap through or it disappears until next offseason because everyone will be focused on actual football in 9 days.

2) Invited? The SEC could just be covering their bases, but rejecting aggy for a second time (this time publically) is interesting. The aggy "insiders" claim they have an invite, but the aggy president says no.

3) 13 teams? This doesn't make a bit of logical sense. The SEC isn't going to unbalance the divisions or ditch the divisions and CCG just for aggy. Until they get 1 or 3 others to come along, it ain't happening. Odd numbers don't split.

4) Why would the SEC take this risk? They're the undisputed top conference. I highly doubt they'll shove a domino to add one team, with the possible effect being a superconference Pac-16 that potentially jeopardizes their top conference status.

5) The SEC's meeting. Either they're straight-up lying about their meeting with the current programs (no comment would seemingly be the play if they really were expanding), or the members really aren't big on adding aggy at this present time.

Again, I think aggy ends up in the SEC eventually. Just not yet. I doubt the SEC makes the first move in the next round of realignment. I figure they have a plan in place to take some combination of four teams out of FSU, A&M, Clemson, Virginia Tech, or Miami (though their stock just took a huge hit), and that all the respective schools are already on board for when the next round of realignment happens.

Slive managed to help weaken a competing conference by using aggy as a pawn the last go-round without changing a thing in their structure while helping torpedo the Pac-16 threat, so there's a good chance that this is again the case. They want to increase bad blood in the Big XII and aggy is a catalyst of sorts for that. If the Big XII implodes and the teams end up splitting apart, the SEC wins big. Which may have been why they're apparently backing off currently.

With the Longhorn Network struggling, UT going Indy is less of a possibility, and the Pac-16 with UT/OU/OkSt/TTU seems like it's back on the table a bit. So, IMO, the SEC is easing off for the time being. My theory is that the SEC wants one of the four teams above to get frustrated and pull a Nebraska WITHOUT others coming along. So they're increasing unrest by entertaining aggy.

I could be totally off about all this, but that's my read of the situation.

Statalyzer - August 24, 2011 07:28 AM (GMT)
Texas going independent is just a talking point for fans and journalists. It's extremely unlikely since neither our AD and our President seem to be in favor of it.

Frankly I think the Big 12 is ok as it is. Sure, it's not awesome, but I don't see the point of all the rush. Why not let things be for a few years and see if things works out? The whole "We need out because the Big 12 is collapsing!" cry from A&M (and occasionally Missouri) is silly - it wouldn't be collapsing if you two would shut up and just let the 2011-2012 season play out.

QUOTE
I figure they have a plan in place to take some combination of four teams out of FSU, A&M, Clemson, Virginia Tech, or Miami (though their stock just took a huge hit)


A huge hit? This is the SEC we're talking about; Miami might have leaked this information on purpose just to solidify their invite.

I don't really like like the idea of the Pac-16 for several reasons. Screw ubermega-conferences, screw California (the state not the school) (no actually, screw the school too), screw the false hopes of not having to deal with those jackass CU fans any more, and screw losing affordable road trips. That said, anything that keeps us playing Tech, OU, and to a lesser extent Okie State even, isn't horrible I guess. But I want to keep playing A&M every year, despite the "good riddance" attitude of a lot of the UT fanbase. But A&M seems to not care about continuing the rivalry game and want to do their best to cancel it, and you know the moment that happens, they'll suddenly start caring again and blaming Texas for cancelling the game.

I don't get it. I was fine with Nebraska leaving. I'd rather them have stayed but they had every right to do what they thought was best for themselves. A&M has every right to do what's best for themselves - although I really hope that this doesn't including cancelling the yearly matchup. But Texas does what's best for ourselves and the Ags and Huskers get indignant and butt-hurt about it. It's funny because Oklahoma has remained pretty quiet through the whole thing - they are still in a great position as a program, and I hate to say it, but real winners don't need to shake things up, OU can just keep on quietly positioning themselves to dominate the conference and the onus is still on the rest of us to catch up.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

COLLEGE STATION, TEXAS, AUG 23, 2011. Texas A&M has had enough. They officially will no longer will consider "t.u." - short for "texas university" - to be their main rivals. "That school in Austin no longer even exists as far as we are concerned", said Bill Byrne, "We have a standing offer from the SEC, but we will play in the Big 12 for the 2011 season - a conference that includes plenty of other quality football teams within our state to beat the hell out of while whooping and humping it. All this business with the LHN has led us to officially disown our friends in the capitol city. We will never reference them again from here on out."

Although the specific schools went unnamed, clearly Byrne could only have been referring to Baylor and Texas Tech. Head Coach Mike Sherman wasted no time scheduling extra yell practices for the A&M fanbase "Looks like we'll need additional practice to make sure our fans are ready to sing about 'lubbock university' and 'university baylor' from here on out." Already, official documents from the University's Board of Regents have been leaked, making references to "l.u." and "u.b."

In light of these decisions, A&M officials have also decided to alter the lyrics of the official A&M fight song, "The Aggie War Hymn."

Hullabaloo, caneck caneck
Hullabaloo, caneck caneck

Goodbye you celibate sober baaaa-aptists
Farewell to gold and to puke green

Hello to uptight fundamentalists
You are now our main rivalry

Since the Big 12 conference was started
You've never finished in the top 10 (neither has A&M!)

So, goodbye to dancing 'cause it's sinful
We’re gonna hate baylor to
Chigaroogarem, Chigaroogarem
Bears suck, out of luck! Texas A&M

Hullabaloo, screw Tech screw Tech
Hullabaloo, screw Tech screw Tech

Goodbye to lubbock university
So long to the red and the bla-aa-ack

Hello to scary flying tortillas
I'd rather eat little debbie snacks

We haven't forgotten your goal post attack
Back when you shut out our poor team (you’re so mean!)

So, goodbye to pirates with no sea nearby
We’re gonna squeeze our balls to
Chigaroogarem, Chigaroogarem
Guns up? What the f---? Texas A&M

Pull Zorro’s mask off
Pull Zorro’s mask off
Pull Zorro’s mask off
Off! Ay!

Zorro’s mask has fallen off
Zorro’s mask has fallen off
Zorro’s mask has fallen off
Off! Ay!

Raider - August 24, 2011 10:02 PM (GMT)
Damn Stat, did you write that whole fake press release? Pretty good!


Statalyzer - August 29, 2011 09:42 PM (GMT)
The press release yes. Part of the fake war hymn I improvised as well, but I stole part of it from an old hornfans.com thread.

Statalyzer - September 8, 2011 05:36 PM (GMT)
Three interesting developments the past week.

1) The PAC-12 really wants OU and probably Texas as well, and possibly Texas Tech and Oklahoma State.

2). I've heard a couple of radio reports that BYU is working on a deal to join the Big 12 next year so long as Texas and Oklahoma stay in the conference.

3). The big one - Baylor is trying to block A&M's move to the SEC. Makes sense since they (and probably Iowa State and Kansas State also at the very least) stand to lose millions if the Big 12 falls apart. Surprised nobody seemed to see this coming ahead of time, but this is going to be fun to sit back and watch. A&M fans are absolutely livid at Baylor right now - maybe my alternate war hymn isn't so inaccurate after all.

VTHokie - September 8, 2011 06:39 PM (GMT)
Yep.. for Baylor (and to a lesser extent Iowa State and Kansas State), this could be the end of big time collegiate athletics. Noone else is going to want the Bears... hell the Big 12 didn't even want the Bears, they just got strong-armed into the conference.

Raider - September 8, 2011 06:47 PM (GMT)
Baylor conference-blocking aggy is funny....but sad.

I'm just waiting to see what OU does. They really hold the keys in this situation, IMO. If they're content with a re-worked Big12, then we'll add BYU and possibly others and do a blood oath and limp along for a while. But if they're wanting out then I think it'll hit the fan sooner (pun intended) rather than later. Best case is OU/OSU/UT/TTU to PAC. All I know is my team is basically swinging from UT's nuts hoping to get a seat at the table.

Raider - September 8, 2011 09:25 PM (GMT)
Speaking of Baylor...


user posted image

Astro - September 8, 2011 09:37 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Raider @ Sep 8 2011, 04:25 PM)
Speaking of Baylor...


user posted image

:lol: :lol: :lol:

VTHokie - September 16, 2011 02:27 AM (GMT)
So the sounds of things seem to indicate that the ACC will soon invite Pittsburgh and Syracuse. Can't say it's thrilling, but it keeps the basketball folks happy and Pitt isn't an awful program.

However, the interesting rumor is that Texas is clamoring for an ACC invite. Granted, I think it's a poker game to get a better offer from the Pac-12 and that is Texas's eventual destination. However, it is compelling to think about Texas being a member of the ACC. Rumor has it Texas Tech would be the 16th team. So with all the takl on here amongst myself and the other Texas contingent here... who ever would have thought we could possibly become conference rivals?

More likely though, as I mentioned, Texas goes to the Pac-12, Texas Tech joins the MWC (which will play the role of the Western version of the ACC) and the ACC ends up bringing Pitt, Cuse, and then two other programs (I'm thinking possibly WVU and Louisville).

Raider - September 16, 2011 01:45 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (VTHokie @ Sep 15 2011, 08:27 PM)
More likely though, as I mentioned, Texas goes to the Pac-12, Texas Tech joins the MWC

PLEASE no. That would be horrendous. Although I'm 94% confident that won't happen. We're pretty much UT's little ho and we'll tag along wherever they go. It sucks, but sometimes being someone's bitch can be advantageous.

VTHokie - September 16, 2011 02:27 PM (GMT)
I just don't see where else Texas Tech is going to go. I don't see them being attractive to the Pac-12, though I guess it's possible. Texas is obviously playing the ACC like a fiddle and I hope we don't bite (but it looks like John Swofford, the commissioner of the ACC, is biting). Plus I can't see why Texas would even want that given that they are halfway across the country from the nearest ACC team (unless Texas Tech joins... at which point they'll be near each other and still a long haul from the next closest school).

TexasTech - September 16, 2011 04:07 PM (GMT)
Tech has been keeping their cards pretty close to the vest throughout this whole thing. What comforts me is that UT's mouthpiece Chip Brown (remember, this was the guy who leaked the Pac-16 and manipulated realignment info from there to help UT make a play for the LHN and a weakened Big XII) has been going on the offensive against Tech lately. Which tells me that Tech to Pac-16 along with OU and Xerox St is a very real possibility. If Scott invites Tech, OU, and X$U, he forces UT's hand to either give up the LHN and join the fold or lose all their rivals. This UT to ACC thing is very likely just an attempt at leverage, but that's their only other viable option if we all bail.

For once, I think Tech is actually in a position of some power. Raider's right in saying that we've historically been their "ho", but if there really is Pac-12 interest in Tech, we've got an enticing opportunity to get away from playing against a stacked deck. We're no slouch in many respects as a potential Pac-16 member (and frankly, there aren't many better options), and inviting us would pressure UT on top of that. Joining UT in a lame pod in the ACC with the same inequalities that have killed the Big XII would be terrible for Tech, IMO, as we'd be faced with the same uncertainty in a few years when the ACC would start getting pissed at UT and would start entertaining better options. As long as they have the LHN, UT is conference cancer.

My big fear is that if we continue to buddy up with UT even a little, that a package of OU/X$U/KU/KSU to the Pac-16 could happen. In that case, we would be hoping to tag along with UT again, firmly back on bitch status. Ugh. Still, that would leave the Pac-16 without a foothold in TX, which would seemingly be undesirable. The latest rumors are TTU/OU/X$U/Mizzou to the Pac-16. I'm not sure I buy that, as I think Mizzou wants the Big Ten or SEC way before the Pac-16, so this may just be the Pac-16 throwing this out there as a counter-leverage to the UT-to-ACC crap. Another one that has been thrown out there, but seems ludicrous is TTU/OU/X$U/New Mexico. Unless UNM has compromising photos of Larry Scott and a stripper in Vegas or something, I don't see this happening at all. This sounds like someone picked a school that could be a geographical fit in the Pac-16 East and little more.

Regardless, I'm sick and tired of this crap. I should be enjoying football right now instead of worrying about this giant pissing contest everyday. It's ruining the season for me. What's more, 99.9% of this is pure conjecture from the blogsphere anyway, as the people who are actually privy to what's going on behind closed doors are numbered in double-digits at most. And even those people have agendas to flat out lie in many cases. It's exhausting to try and keep up with, but the potential ramifications are so huge that it's impossible not to. Whatever happens, I hope it happens sometime soon.

Statalyzer - September 16, 2011 04:58 PM (GMT)
New Mexico I think keeps getting mentioned because, like Missouri, they cover better TV markets than a lot of colleges. So there's some monetary potential there if they have the draw of being in a major conference.

QUOTE
Plus I can't see why Texas would even want that given that they are halfway across the country from the nearest ACC team


Yeah but the same is true of the PAC-12 and Big Ten also.

QUOTE
Joining UT in a lame pod in the ACC with the same inequalities that have killed the Big XII


The teams that have left or are most trying to leave the Big XII were the same ones who benefitted the most from those "inequalities".

VTHokie - September 17, 2011 08:55 PM (GMT)
Looks like Pitt and Syracuse to the ACC will be the next two dominoes to fall... and the ACC appears primed to retake its position of best basketball conference in America. Solid basketball move for the conference, but it doesn't do much for football.

I hate to say it, but if Texas/Texas Tech can't be pulled in (and they won't), the next two HAVE to WVU and Louisville. I hate both programs, but they both bring basketball too, and WVU especially is a very good football program too.

Astro - September 17, 2011 09:04 PM (GMT)
What did Louisville do to Virginia Tech besides expose Marcus Vick as a piece of sh*t

VTHokie - September 17, 2011 09:28 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Astro @ Sep 17 2011, 04:04 PM)
What did Louisville do to Virginia Tech besides expose Marcus Vick as a piece of sh*t

Essentially abandoned VT and the whole Metro conference and left VT homeless for decades. I don't know the whole story, but Louisville was the main catalyst for VT being in the athletics abyss for 20-30 years until they stumbled into the Big East.

Astro - September 17, 2011 09:46 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (VTHokie @ Sep 17 2011, 04:28 PM)
Essentially abandoned VT and the whole Metro conference and left VT homeless for decades. I don't know the whole story, but Louisville was the main catalyst for VT being in the athletics abyss for 20-30 years until they stumbled into the Big East.

I'm pretty sure UofL left the Metro because they wanted to be in a conference that sponsored football

VTHokie - September 17, 2011 09:49 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Astro @ Sep 17 2011, 04:46 PM)
I'm pretty sure UofL left the Metro because they wanted to be in a conference that sponsored football

Ironic isn't it that Louisville abandoned VT because they weren't good enough to share a football league with them? Now, it's Louisville that would love to step up to VT's league (and I think they will).

But it'll be nice (as much as I hate them) to have the WVU rivalry back.

And maybe these shakeups can help to at least also shake up the stupid bowl tie-ins. Of course, ultimately, this push for mega-expansion is really a push for playoffs.

Statalyzer - September 17, 2011 10:11 PM (GMT)
If the people who had the power to make playoffs wanted them, we would already have them.

The mega conference push is, IMO, bad for college football.

Astro - September 18, 2011 10:54 AM (GMT)
It appears that Syracuse and Pittsburgh are leaving for the ACC.. With the rumor that Rutgers and UConn are also on the radar..

So now, unfortunately, I have to watch the Big 12 scrap teams (Baylor, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State).. Ultimately, if UofL stays in the Big East/12, then this could make for a better conference. If WVU, Cincinnati, and Louisville stay together (Won or tied for the championship the past 8 seasons) then I feel the conference gets better at football. Baylor is pretty good (the same level as annual underachiever Pitt), Iowa State is coming along (at the same pace as Syracuse anyway), Kansas can match up with Rutgers, and Kansas State has been much better than UConn over the past decade.

Ideally, I want Cincinnati and Louisville to stay together for rivalry reasons, and Marquette to remain in the same basketball conference. The rest I could careless about.

VTHokie - September 18, 2011 08:49 PM (GMT)
One of the latest rumors is that WVU is on its way to the SEC. Not sure this makes sense, but the WVU folks are buzzing over it right now.

As for the ACC, UCONN is certainly on the radar and they are a very legit possibility. Another rumor (can't see it happening) is that Penn State will leave the Big 10 and join Pitt in the ACC. But again, I can't even begin to see the logic of Penn State leaving the Big 10. Plus Penn State sucks at (and doesn't care about) basketball, and that's the ACC's ace in the hole.

It does appear that the ACC is trying to capture the entire East Coast vs going for other southern teams. I still think Louisville would be a good get... and a better get than Rutgers or even WVU.

VTHokie - September 19, 2011 01:17 AM (GMT)
So more has come out of recent. Word is that the ACC is making a strong push for Notre Dame to join the league.... and the feeling may be mutual. ND sees itself as Midwestern in geography only. But in most other respects, ND sees itself more of an Eastern school. If the ACC can pull off this coup and get the ND away from the Big 10, that would be a HUGE not just for the ACC, but for the national conference realignment dominoes. Did I mention how huge it would be for the ACC?

I must add, I don't think it's all that plausible and I think ND will end up in the Big 10 as the money difference between the ACC and Big 10 will be too great. But the ACC might be more willing to allow ND some concessions, and ND can get back to what it views as its roots. Rutgers, IMO, is nothing more than an emergency backup if the ACC can't lure ND. But I think the ACC should look elsewhere from Rutgers. UCONN would be a good addition though if lumped with ND.

WVU is looking more and more SEC bound by the hour and from what I'm reading on the boards, should be more nationally known by this time tomorrow. But we'll see. Lots of rumors being thrown around.


TexasTech - September 19, 2011 02:53 PM (GMT)
Today could be D-Day on realignment. The OU Regents are meeting, likely to approve a move to the Pac-12. The UT regents are meeting shortly after that, likely to do the same if that's what OU does. And Tech and X$U are already 100% behind this deal to the extent that their regents don't even really have to meet. Reportedly, the Longhorn Network will be turned into a regional network like what the Pac-16 has going with the other schools, which saves UT from the ego bruise of admitting defeat on their LHN.

The bomb dropped by the ACC this weekend tells me the UT flirtation was just that. The ACC has made a key move here to ensure their future, because I'm of the opinion that one of the Big East/ACC conferences won't survive realignment. Right now, advantage ACC. The Big East better act, and fast, because if they lose WVU, I don't see any way the conference survives, even if they added TCU and managed to get all the Big XII leftovers. Their play right now needs to be for all-in for Notre Dame, and then hope that ND's prestige gets a few more teams on board.

If the Pac-16 happens, s**t gets real and the fallout will be huge. Tech, UT, OU, X$U, and most of the Pac-16 would all be big winners. Tech gets more money, UT gets protected from themselves with a cap on their "we're Texas" egotism, OU gets to keep a situation they'll likely continue to dominate and keeps their rivals, and X$U gets some certainty for their future much like Tech. The only real "loser" in the Pac-16 if it happens would be Colorado, who essentially would be back facing the meat of the Big XII to likely struggle, plus they wouldn't get the West coast trips as much as they hoped. That said, the Pac-16 would be the first superconference, and everyone would get paid big-time and have a heck of a fun conference to boot.

Still, there would be some HUGE losers in this deal. Mizzou is lucky to be geographically well-positioned in this thing, so I don't see them struggling to find a home, but KU, KSU, ISU, and BU are in for some real trouble if this goes down. I think they were all counting on the Big East as the security blanket, but the loss of two teams there should have them VERY concerned. KU and KSU have some hurdles to cross to break them up, and though KU basketball is a power, I'm not sure that it saves them. All BU has going for them is an improving FB program and location in Texas, and ISU better team up with Mizzou to try to get into the Big Ten. If I'm a current Big East member, I'm reevaluating my options as well and putting feelers out. What's interesting to me is that TCU is supposedly joining the Big East in 2012, but the Big East may not even exist then. This could go bad for them. If I'm TCU, I start trying to work my way into the SEC.

Crazy stuff. It's getting ugly out there. Here's hoping it all ends soon.

VTHokie - September 19, 2011 05:02 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
The bomb dropped by the ACC this weekend tells me the UT flirtation was just that. The ACC has made a key move here to ensure their future, because I'm of the opinion that one of the Big East/ACC conferences won't survive realignment. Right now, advantage ACC. The Big East better act, and fast, because if they lose WVU, I don't see any way the conference survives, even if they added TCU and managed to get all the Big XII leftovers. Their play right now needs to be for all-in for Notre Dame, and then hope that ND's prestige gets a few more teams on board.


IMO, the competition isn't ACC vs Big East as much as it is Big East vs Big 12. It's about who can actually grab the leftovers. The Big 12 has more money now, but neither is stable and it's plausible BOTH could implode, but one acting fast enough has a chance. I think the Big East is doomed (especially when WVU defects to the SEC... and given the likelihood that at least UCONN is also going to the ACC). Notre Dame will NOT be joining Big East football. I think they'll flirt hard with the ACC before finally joining the Big 10 within the next two years, leaving the ACC with UCONN and the choice of Louisville/Cincinnati/Rutgers (and should be in that order IMO). My guess is that Rutgers is being floated only in the situation that ND actually joins the ACC, giving the ACC (and by extension, ND), direct NYC market access.

The apparently inevitable Pac-16 appears set now and the conference shuffling is really beginning here. Will be interesting to see how the Big 10 and SEC react. Ironically, it appears the SEC right now is the one getting left behind. ESPECIALLY if the ACC pulls off the coup and lands the Irish.

TexasTech - September 19, 2011 07:45 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (VTHokie @ Sep 19 2011, 12:02 PM)
IMO, the competition isn't ACC vs Big East as much as it is Big East vs Big 12. It's about who can actually grab the leftovers. The Big 12 has more money now, but neither is stable and it's plausible BOTH could implode, but one acting fast enough has a chance. I think the Big East is doomed (especially when WVU defects to the SEC... and given the likelihood that at least UCONN is also going to the ACC). Notre Dame will NOT be joining Big East football. I think they'll flirt hard with the ACC before finally joining the Big 10 within the next two years, leaving the ACC with UCONN and the choice of Louisville/Cincinnati/Rutgers (and should be in that order IMO). My guess is that Rutgers is being floated only in the situation that ND actually joins the ACC, giving the ACC (and by extension, ND), direct NYC market access.


As it stands now, the Big East and Big XII both appear done. The powers that be want 4 superconferences. The Pac-12, Big Ten, and SEC aren't going to dissolve. It appears there will be a fight between the SEC, Big Ten, and it's looking like the ACC, for a few of the Big XII/Big East scraps with some more potential reshuffling among those conferences.

QUOTE
The apparently inevitable Pac-16 appears set now and the conference shuffling is really beginning here. Will be interesting to see how the Big 10 and SEC react.


No doubt. It looks like it will be a big news week for this stuff. And now Okie Light has apparently scheduled a board meeting for Wednesday.

QUOTE
Ironically, it appears the SEC right now is the one getting left behind. ESPECIALLY if the ACC pulls off the coup and lands the Irish.


I don't think the SEC has the slightest bit of interest in Notre Dame. Not a good cultural, geographical, or logical fit. And I don't know if I'd say the SEC is getting left behind. Mike Slive is...sly, so I would imagine he's got a plan in place. Even if he doesn't, they can pick and choose a few teams just by virtue of being the SEC. Still, I agree that so far, they could be doing better than just aggy. If it's aggy+WVU, that's a solid addition. And then you've got possibly Mizzou, Baylor, TCU, Louisville, etc. to round it out, with lots of other good teams in the region as possibilities. And that's only assuming that Clemson, FSU, and Miami aren't interested in joining, which may not be the case. I don't know how the whole dynamic of UF coexisting with FSU or Miami would play out, but that's a possibility for the SEC as well. The SEC will be fine.

Astro - September 19, 2011 08:07 PM (GMT)
Well Pitt and Syracuse can't leave the conference until they give a 27 month month notice unless they get a waiver. So the whole expansion push could have to wait over 2 years.

Depending on what Texas and Oklahoma did it might be better to waive that notice for Syracuse and Pitt so that the Big East could attempt to add the Big 12 scraps and remain a viable conference longer than the 2 year wait period would allow.

Then again, you really cant trust any school now so who knows.

DStahzz99 - September 19, 2011 08:45 PM (GMT)
The remainder of the Big XII post Pac-16 should join the Big East (assuming UConn is gone too), that should be enough to keep AQ status at least.


Big East West Division

TCU
Iowa St
Baylor
Kansas
Kansas St
Mizzou

Big East East Division

LVille
Cincy
USF
Rutgers
WVU
East Carolina (steal them from CUSA)

VTHokie - September 19, 2011 09:03 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
I don't think the SEC has the slightest bit of interest in Notre Dame. Not a good cultural, geographical, or logical fit.


I agree that the SEC wouldn't go after ND. However, if the ACC gets ND, that essentially makes another viable league to compete with. As is, the ACC is something of a red-headed stepchild. If the ACC gets Notre Dame, no longer. If the Big 10 lands Notre Dame, it's not the big deal.

I'm sure Slive has something up his sleeve. A lot of ACC fans are breathing easy right now with the ACC teams unanimously voting to increase the buyout to $20 mil. Frankly, I think it's more of a symbolic gesture where if the SEC still comes calling, those teams are gone ($20 mil can be made up within a few years). Plus there's a lot of uncertainty about which, if any, ACC teams are in the picture of other conferences.

Ironically, the only conference with a lawsuit on its hands right now is the SEC... the only one who isn't apparently "raiding" anyone, given their stance that A&M came to them... which leads me to believe there's a hell of a lot more to that story.

QUOTE
Well Pitt and Syracuse can't leave the conference until they give a 27 month month notice unless they get a waiver. So the whole expansion push could have to wait over 2 years.

Depending on what Texas and Oklahoma did it might be better to waive that notice for Syracuse and Pitt so that the Big East could attempt to add the Big 12 scraps and remain a viable conference longer than the 2 year wait period would allow.


Agreed here. The Big East needs to cut its losses now so that it can be proactive in picking up the Big 12 scraps. If they are proactive enough, they have TCU as leverage to bring on some of those scraps like Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, etc. And frankly, right now, the Big East simply needs bodies so to speak. A league of KSU, KU, ISU, Rutgers (for now), UCONN (for now), Louisville (also maybe, for now), Memphis, ECU, USM, UCF, and USF could be viable for a borderline BCS/playoff bid.

Statalyzer - September 20, 2011 04:02 AM (GMT)
Just hypothetically speaking, does anyone know if there's a limit on the minimum # of teams for a conference? It kind of would have made sense for a few schools with nationwide fanbases, plus a couple of other half-decent teams with good programs in some other major sport besides football, to form a 6 team conference and so just play 5 conference games a year and have 7 flexible ooc games to keep all the rivalries intact, but still be a credible competitive conference.

QUOTE
And now Okie Light has apparently scheduled a board meeting for Wednesday.


I wonder what about. Aren't they bound to end up in the same conference as OU no matter what due to state legislature provisions?

QUOTE
Ironically, the only conference with a lawsuit on its hands right now is the SEC... the only one who isn't apparently "raiding" anyone, given their stance that A&M came to them... which leads me to believe there's a hell of a lot more to that story.


When it comes to suits, I don't think that it matters one bit who initially approached who. It might be a case of the threat being bigger than the likely actual execution also.

QUOTE
The powers that be want 4 superconferences.


Looks like we'll end up with 5. And that we still won't have playoffs either way.

QUOTE
I don't know how the whole dynamic of UF coexisting with FSU or Miami would play out, but that's a possibility for the SEC as well


What do you mean? They often all play each other anyway.

QUOTE
Reportedly, the Longhorn Network will be turned into a regional network like what the Pac-16 has going with the other schools


There's about a bazillion reports on this and I don't know who to believe. Honestly, there's not a lot of good reason to treat it differently than any other tier 3 deal. It's not going to hurt revenue sharing b/c tier 3 is never shared and the LHN gets last pick so it can only take games that tier 1 and tier 2 didn't want anyway. But I could maybe see some other schools wanting some shared deal that might bump up the LHN to tier 2 status - meaning UT would have to split the money, but also increasing the amount of money available since the game would be more popular.

VTHokie - September 20, 2011 07:26 PM (GMT)
So West Virginia's application to the SEC is REJECTED and Missouri instead will take that 14th spot. WVU's application to the ACC met the same fate. All I have to say is....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: MISSOURI!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:D

It really sounds like a Big 12 remnant/Big East merger is imminent IMO with an East and West division. But even that has very little long term viability. The MWC is in a VERY ideal position IMO to pounce and take what THEY want, destroy what's left and steal that BCS bid.

If I'm the MWC, I'm inviting TCU back and letting bygones be bygones. Admit WVU (HA HA HA HA WVU in the MWC.. HA HA HA) and then Kansas/Kansas State. A conference with Boise, TCU, Utah, Kansas, Kansas State would be no less worthy of an at-large bid than the current Big East. Especially if they can lure BYU back too (and BYU is probably wishing they hadn't left).

DStahzz99 - September 20, 2011 08:04 PM (GMT)
Not gonna happen, the MWC is in talks about merging with CUSA. The Big XII remnants are going with the conference that already has the AQ bid and that is not the Mountain West.

TexasTech - September 20, 2011 08:25 PM (GMT)
If Mizzou goes to the SEC, they'll get destroyed even worse than aggy will. I feel like MU could be an Iowa/Michigan St level team in the Big Ten that is usually solid with an occasional big year. In the SEC, they're probably another Ole Miss at best. MU just doesn't play the right brand of football for the SEC. Too much finesse. (FWIW, I think TTU would have the same problem.) At least aggy is somewhat getting back to smashmouth mode. If MU ends up an SEC bottom-feeder after all their mouthing off last year about being Big Ten-bound, it will be hilarious.

Astro - September 20, 2011 11:32 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (VTHokie @ Sep 20 2011, 02:26 PM)
So West Virginia's application to the SEC is REJECTED and Missouri instead will take that 14th spot. WVU's application to the ACC met the same fate. All I have to say is....

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  MISSOURI!!!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

:D

It really sounds like a Big 12 remnant/Big East merger is imminent IMO with an East and West division. But even that has very little long term viability. The MWC is in a VERY ideal position IMO to pounce and take what THEY want, destroy what's left and steal that BCS bid.

If I'm the MWC, I'm inviting TCU back and letting bygones be bygones. Admit WVU (HA HA HA HA WVU in the MWC.. HA HA HA) and then Kansas/Kansas State. A conference with Boise, TCU, Utah, Kansas, Kansas State would be no less worthy of an at-large bid than the current Big East. Especially if they can lure BYU back too (and BYU is probably wishing they hadn't left).

A conference of Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas State, Kansas, TCU, USF, West Virginia, Cincinnati, Louisville, Rutgers, UConn, and Houston, doesn't sound too bad.

If Rutgers and UConn leave then add Temple and Southern Miss. If you prefer larger markets then add Tulane and the New Orleans market.

That's a stronger conference, in both football and basketball, than the ACC

You have the Dallas market (TCU), Houston market, Cincinnati market, Des Moines market, and Louisville market for sure. If you add Temple you get Philadelphia. If you add Tulane then you get New Orleans.

You would also have 4 ranked teams in the current poll (WVU, Baylor, USF, and TCU). Houston is right on the cusp of being in the top 25.

Basketball wise you lose Syracuse and Pittsburgh but are adding Kansas, Kansas State, and Baylor. If Rutgers and UConn end up leaving then you're adding Temple. Thus making the Big 12/East just as good, if not better, than the current Big East.

Can set up divisions as:
West:
Iowa State
Baylor
Kansas St
Kansas
TCU
Houston

East:
USF
WVU
Cincinnati
Louisville
Rutgers/Temple
UConn/Tulane/Southern Miss

If you want to ditch the basketball schools later and go with a 16 team conference then there are always the possibilites of UCF, FIU (maybe a long shot but the Big East did take a gamble with USF early in their football careers), Memphis, East Carolina, etc.

If Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, and Texas Tech all stay then you don't add Houston. You move TCU to the East (since they were fine with being in the Big East anyway) and have divisions as:

West:
Iowa State
Baylor
Kansas St
Kansas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma St
Texas
Texas Tech

East:
USF
WVU
Cincinnati
Louisville
Rutgers
UConn
Tulane
TCU

If UConn and/or Rutgers want to go then replace them with Temple, if both still want to go then bring in UCF/Southern Miss

That conference would be, IMO, one of the top 3 conferences in football with Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, WVU, USF, and Baylor, all currently ranked.




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