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Pages: (3) [1] 2 3  ( Go to first unread post )

 Know No Fear discussion, Teasers and SPOILERS
Apologist
Posted: Jan 31 2012, 09:24 AM


Archmagos Veneratus


Group: Champions
Posts: 1,083
Member No.: 137
Joined: 28-February 08



First off – *enthuse*

Downloaded this at midnight, and find myself halfway through; having managed to put it down at 2. What a book!

Teasers
The book fits in well with the material we've already seen on the Word Bearers and Ultramarines, and expands on these two Legions in an organic, natural way. There's a surprising amount of logistical detail in the first half of the book, and I for one will be digesting and compiling info for quite some time. That said, this information is written naturally; and the tone and content of the text suggests the organisation and discipline of the Ultramarines in particular, without becoming jarring.

Dan has totally 'got' the Ultramarines. They've got a great balance of being focussed, military and yet interesting; and there's loads of info on the personnel: just check out the extensive Dramatis Personae section. The contrast between the clean operation of preparing to fight the Orks and the betrayal is startling, and the book sets a real pace, which prevents the information becoming a morass. In fact, the book is more immediately violent – and for a more sustained time – than I can remember in another Heresy novel. Abnett gives real 'shock and awe' with a short-burning fuse, and that perfectly captures the point of the teaser Black Library gave us (the death of Honorius Luciel at the hands of Sorot Tchure) – Tchure's words about betrayal creating that infinitesimal advantage are writ large across the events of the first half of the book.

If I breathed a sigh of relief as the character of the legion was revealed, it was doubly true of Guilliman. In my view, Dan was always going to be a safe pair of hands for any Primarch – his Horus was with invested with majesty, humanity and charisma, his Alpharius was suitably evasive and yet inspiring; and his Guilliman is portrayed in a fantastic light: you get a sense of veneration from his men then edges towards majesty rather than pomposity (except in Lorgar's view, of course!). He's not as immediately charming as Abnett's Horus: instead, you instinctively feel he is trustworthy.

Best of all? You get the feeling that the modus operandi Guilliman espouses – and the Ultramarines practise – would work; there's a sense of professionalism and adaptive self-reliance.

The book is very interestingly written: like Eisenhorn, the text is mainly written in the present tense, which gives a fantastic urgency to the tone and helps create an atmosphere that supports the surprise and shock of the events. Unlike Eisenhorn, it's third person. That's a very different beast, and it definitely helps to construct the scale and breadth of the campaign.

I found 'my' reference in there – the very first Ultramarine you meet is:
QUOTE
Tall as one big man on another big man’s shoulders, broad as any three muscle-heavy athletes, his bulk augmented by the massive ceramite plate of gleaming Praetor-pattern armour, Luciel opens the airgate hatch.

Squee! smile.gif I don't really have anything to say about that beyond it put the biggest grin on my face. It's a throwaway line, in many ways; but it's lovely to think that the enthusiasm of the fanbase feeds back into the growing shared world of the Horus Heresy. Hugs for everyone biggrin.gif

The Word Bearers come across suitably bad-ass as well – Lorgar has grown some nuts: for very good reason. There's a sense of having left his self-doubt behind; which expands beautifully on Dembski-Bowden's groundwork and character development. Of course, that hasn't come with complete balance, and while he's not a frothing caricature of himself, he's a perfect contrast to Guilliman's deep-seated balance.*

The subtle changes in the Word Bearers are good: I loved the mention that they're using daemoncraft in lieu of a voxnet, and the basic plan of attack is one that seems eminently sensible and achievable – one worthy of a Primarch and Astartes. They aren't berserkers: they're coldly clinical murderers coming at a hated enemy, and that sense of purpose and ambition comes across even where it isn't explicitly mentioned. Masterful handling of a well-loved Legion. I imagine Dembski-Bowden is very happy with how the Word Bearers are portrayed, as it feels like an organic development of his groundwork in The First Heretic.

I think the cultists have been well thought-out – rather than faceless screaming nutjobs that get mention elsewhere in the 40k background, you get an explanation as to why they're okay with dieing (well, if you believe the promises...), and they're a believable enemy for the Imperial Army. I was hoping for good things from Abnett on this, as he realised the Blood pact and Sons of Sek so well. He doesn't disappoint.

Spoilers

+++Edit+++
[spoiler] tags don't work, so I've used strikethrough text to make things harder to skim read. I hope that works for people.

Either way, be warned – beyond this point be spoilers ninja.gif


===
==
=



Setpieces galore – a sky massacre that ends with spaceships crashing to earth; super-heavy tanks raining from the sky. Lots of short-term foreshadowing of the perfect defences being breached.

I continued reading on the way to work and startled some poor sod when I realised I was reading about the Catheric Oll – Ollanius freaking Pius! – stepping on to Horus' throne. What a startling piece of foreshadowing, and beautifully executed. It's great to see Horus back in Abnett's hands – despite him being a tiny cameo, you got this dripping sense of power; of betrayal... Abnett is truly a first-class writer, and this book cements his reputation in my mind.

*That said, the scene where Guilliman loses his rag on the flagship as Lorgar taunts him is perfectly pitched: you get Guilliman revealing his passion without losing complete control, and there's a reserve even here that contrasts brilliantly with the teaser scene where Lorgar rages at Guilliman's 'confrontation', as he sees it.

Spoilerish queries
The Raptorus Rex is mentioned. This is the Fire Hawks' cruiser, right? Coincidence?
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Apologist
Posted: Feb 1 2012, 09:35 AM


Archmagos Veneratus


Group: Champions
Posts: 1,083
Member No.: 137
Joined: 28-February 08



Spoilers for the Spoiler God

The list of daemons near the end (Chap 2 [mark: 12.53.09]) is fascinating; 'Tarik reborn, he-who-is-now-Torgmageddon' is especially interesting. The implication seems to be that the Word Bearers have harvested the geneseed from Isstvan III and V – both loyalist and traitor – and sacrificed it upon a world-altar.

Am I right in thinking that it is this that gives the Calth weapons grid the ability to murder the sun; or was the main purpose of the ritual to summon the powerful daemons – Epidemius, N'kari etc. into reality?

It seems too much like coincidence that 'Tarik reborn, he-who-is-now-Torgmageddon' is nothing to do with Tarik Torgaddon – particularly since Erebus strokes one of the stasis-tanks earlier in the novel and says' Tarik...'; so are the daemons possessees of the harvested geneseed?

All fascinating stuff smile.gif
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BigWill
Posted: Feb 1 2012, 07:59 PM


The Sigillite


Group: Iterators
Posts: 4,650
Member No.: 17
Joined: 15-January 08



Not reading the spoliers,i too downloaded yesterday and an half through.
HOLY FETH how the hell does Abnett keep topping his prievious book,each and every time.
There are so many easter eggs I keep expecting to see the Easter Bunny.
At this rate when he writes the final book,thats right I am calling it right here,they will Have Dan write the last one.
I love all the BL authors but Dan just added about 3 feet to the high bar he is at a different level than the rest.
And as herectical as this statement will be I think Dan writes better Ultramarines than Graham.

This post has been edited by BigWill on Feb 1 2012, 07:59 PM
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Azkaellon
Posted: Feb 1 2012, 09:33 PM


The Sanguinor


Group: Champions
Posts: 458
Member No.: 926
Joined: 22-April 10



QUOTE
BigWill Posted on Feb 1 2012, 08:59 PM
And as herectical as this statement will be I think Dan writes better Ultramarines than Graham.


I like that Dan seems to present them Ultramarines when they had the primarch leading them rather than Graham's which show an evolution of the Astartes 10000yrs without the great generals and guidance of their fathers.

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BigWill
Posted: Feb 1 2012, 10:39 PM


The Sigillite


Group: Iterators
Posts: 4,650
Member No.: 17
Joined: 15-January 08



I thunk you just hit the nail on the head.
These are the Ultramarines BEFORE they stick the big stick up thier ass.
Thats why I like em so much wink.gif
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ShroudFilm
Posted: Feb 1 2012, 11:51 PM


The Second Heretic


Group: Admin
Posts: 8,405
Member No.: 1
Joined: 15-January 08



Glad you're all enjoying it. There's more great stuff still to come, you 'mark' my words... wink.gif (major geek reference there, for people who have read the book already!)

Apo - The reference to the 'Raptorus Rex' is actually old canon, since the Fire Hawks are no longer canonically associated with the LOTD. Have you read Rob Sanders eponymous novel?

Either way, the original name for the Word Bearers ship was the 'Raptorus Rex', regardless of the similarity. We double-checked that!
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BigWill
Posted: Feb 2 2012, 12:25 AM


The Sigillite


Group: Iterators
Posts: 4,650
Member No.: 17
Joined: 15-January 08



I read the Legion of the Damned book.
There is one line,when the guy is looking at the drop pod/coffin that had a flaming hawk of a sort.
Nothing that blatant but enough to keep that crack a tiny bit open IMO.
Unless you know something we don't wink.gif
I know in the last Ultra book Graham kind of alludes to the fact that they are the ghosts of Space Marine Heros.
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Azkaellon
Posted: Feb 2 2012, 04:36 AM


The Sanguinor


Group: Champions
Posts: 458
Member No.: 926
Joined: 22-April 10



Awesome book, just finished it will have to start the audiobook on friday to make sure its all gone in rolleyes.gif
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BigWill
Posted: Feb 2 2012, 01:57 PM


The Sigillite


Group: Iterators
Posts: 4,650
Member No.: 17
Joined: 15-January 08



Just finished the book with the sadness in my heart that it will be a while before my next fix.
IMO possiblby the best book so far.
This was how I think Istivan 5 should of been handled,a whole book dedicated to the battle.
Cannot wait for the next books,especially after Shrouds tease.

The reincarnated Tormagoddon makes sense out of that wierd picture of him in the Collected Vissions.
If you are nerdy you can even figure out the date Choclis gets the ole Exterminatus.
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Pacific
Posted: Feb 2 2012, 06:00 PM


Captain


Group: Iterators
Posts: 3,263
Member No.: 260
Joined: 26-May 08



QUOTE (BigWill @ Feb 2 2012, 01:57 PM)

The reincarnated Tormagoddon makes sense out of that wierd picture of him in the Collected Vissions.
If you are nerdy you can even figure out the date Choclis gets the ole Exterminatus.

Was that the chap that got beheaded?
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ShroudFilm
Posted: Feb 2 2012, 06:51 PM


The Second Heretic


Group: Admin
Posts: 8,405
Member No.: 1
Joined: 15-January 08



Tarik Torgaddon, aye.
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Dargor
Posted: Feb 2 2012, 08:29 PM


Lord of the Angelic Host


Group: Iterators
Posts: 718
Member No.: 261
Joined: 26-May 08



Daaaaaammmmnnnnnn yyyouuuuuuuu!!!!!!!

Tarik Torgaddon was my favourite character from the first trilogy.Well, him and Tarvitz. sad.gif
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BigWill
Posted: Feb 2 2012, 11:02 PM


The Sigillite


Group: Iterators
Posts: 4,650
Member No.: 17
Joined: 15-January 08



Am I reading this wrong or has Oll been around since Jason and the Augnaughts?
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Dargor
Posted: Feb 2 2012, 11:08 PM


Lord of the Angelic Host


Group: Iterators
Posts: 718
Member No.: 261
Joined: 26-May 08



Apparently he has and he's also taken part in the battle of Austerlitz and the siege of Verdun!
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Azkaellon
Posted: Feb 3 2012, 12:05 AM


The Sanguinor


Group: Champions
Posts: 458
Member No.: 926
Joined: 22-April 10



I liked that character and the reintroduction of JG. Who the hell are they?!
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BigWill
Posted: Feb 3 2012, 01:04 AM


The Sigillite


Group: Iterators
Posts: 4,650
Member No.: 17
Joined: 15-January 08



Well by nerd math Choclis is destroyed 25 years after the beginning of the Mark of Calth

mark 219,479.25.03
219,479 is the hours divide by 24 = 9144.9 days
9144 days divide by 365 = 25.5 years

Guess we will have to chaulk that up to warp travel then because he calls himself an old man and can barely remember fighting underground.

If they made that last mark at 2 million rather than 2 hundred thousand it would be at least 250 years.

This post has been edited by BigWill on Feb 3 2012, 01:06 AM
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Azkaellon
Posted: Feb 3 2012, 03:53 AM


The Sanguinor


Group: Champions
Posts: 458
Member No.: 926
Joined: 22-April 10



why is there no chapter 8 in part 4 target//engagement? there is a chapter 7 and then chapter 9 and 10 but weirdly no 8? octed code anyone?? huh.gif
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Dargor
Posted: Feb 3 2012, 10:11 AM


Lord of the Angelic Host


Group: Iterators
Posts: 718
Member No.: 261
Joined: 26-May 08



SPOILER!!!!!!!














Did anyone find it interesting that the Dark Git Khor Phaeron sliced Guilliman's throat with a freaking Athame?The same thing that laid Horus low? I remember daemon Fulgrim being responsible for G-man's mortal injury, do you think that the good chaps at BL are going to change that?

This post has been edited by Dargor on Feb 3 2012, 10:13 AM
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Ilmarinen
Posted: Feb 3 2012, 10:26 AM


Ghost of Terra


Group: Admin
Posts: 1,915
Member No.: 360
Joined: 12-August 08



SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!












Just finished reading KNF - freaking amazing!!!

So Kor Phaeron could have easily killed a Primarch, but did something stupid instead! What a dongle!

The fact that Guilliman doesn't succumb to the anathame kinda suggests that Horus always had that flaw in his character. Bit unlucky for Guilliman that he keeps getting his throat cut! (I wonder if it will happen again, before Fulgrim does it!!!)

@BigWill - my reading of the epilogue was that Ventanus can barely remember the Underground War because so much had happened, with so many unbelievable events, that the fighting on Calth had been totally overshadowed.

So, Oll is not exactly the 'simple guardsman' he was originally ...but I'll echo the previous comments of WHAT THE FREAKING HELL IS HE?!?

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Dargor
Posted: Feb 3 2012, 10:28 AM


Lord of the Angelic Host


Group: Iterators
Posts: 718
Member No.: 261
Joined: 26-May 08



QUOTE (Ilmarinen @ Feb 3 2012, 10:26 AM)
WHAT THE FREAKING HELL IS HE?!?

Pretty Awesome. wink.gif


Ps: I was totally yelling "A FIRE BREATHING HORSE!" when Aethon counter-attacked.

This post has been edited by Dargor on Feb 3 2012, 10:29 AM
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