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 Daemons, Deitys and Scarythings..., Background, Help and Nibbles...
Lord_Mortirion
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 03:23 PM


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Ok, It has been mentioned in thebackground that the Four main chaos powers are not the only one's around, that there is lesser gods and random warp entities, who are also worshipped by the followers of the ruinous powers...

I know of Malal (i think that is the correct spelling) who was mentioned in the original WHFB RPG, if memory serves me correctly he was an 'undivided' god who was the enemy of the 'evil' gods... I cant give page ref's as i never owned this book, i jutst remember reading it years ago, and this pre dated ROC as the only gods mentioned were thisone , khorne and i think it was Nurgle or the other one who wears lipstick (not Pacific, the one begining with Slan) tongue.gif

So i thought a thread on the lesser Powers, so we can have a bit of a debate on what we think is out there, and anything also printed in older books that i have missed. (my knowledge goes back to rogue trader, and 4th ??? ed fantasy with the high elves and gobbos in the box)

I also remember a 'Rat' Deity called Kweethull in the ROC Lost and the Damned book...

Does anyone have the !st ed RPG as id like to read the chaos god entrys...


Does anyone have an idea on what some of the lesser powers could be, as they are based on emotion (not just human)... War/Anger, Pain/Pleasure, Death/Decay and the other boring one... What other emotions could be powerfull enough to bring about a lesser god... Hunger??? Stress??? Wind blink.gif

What do you think the attributes of the Patrons Daemonic followers would they have... Khorne would be all ARRRGHHH and spiky, Nurgle all stinky and Slannesh make me feel funny inside...


Id like to get a bit of banter going here, so everyone put your 2 (insert currency here) in...
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Battle Brother Loken
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 03:25 PM


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no but i rember Malal to
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Mabrothrax
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 04:02 PM


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Everything you ever wanted to know about Malal can be found be checking the weblink in my profile. You should realise that the short-lived 'Renegade god' was never mentioned in any 40k context.

Kweethul was a randomly generted patron in the Lost and the Damned book, simply an example (and a rather tame one at that) of what all those gloriously bonkers tales could create.

The 1st ed WFRP book contains a tiny paragraph on each of Khorne, Nurgle & Malal.

If you really wanted to, you could flesh out An'sl, Morr'ck and Phrazz-etar (spelling?).

Part V of the complete Liber Chaotica has a short discourse on lesser deities, most of which was lifted from LatD.

Rather than create a 'god' as such come up wth the back story to a Daemon Prince (non-aligned perhaps) and where, how etc he/she/it would be worshiped.
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VESPASIAN
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 04:24 PM


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An excellent and very interesting thread Lord_Mortarion.

I remember Malal, the renegade Chaos God. Who can forget his most mighty champion Kaaleb Daark, armed with his Dreadaxe?

As Mabrothrax says the Kweethul was provided as an example of what could be created by those seeking to create a Chaos lesser power.

Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned says that the Chaos Powers stem from collective emotional and mental states, which manifest themselves in the warp. The Four main powers derive from more common emotions. The collective manifestation of lesser emotions, can give rise to the birth of lesser powers. Individual Daemons can also be spawned in this way, either believing themselves, or fooling mortals into believing that they are Gods.

I personally would chose an emotion, and then use that as a spring-board from which to create a Chaos power.

I think that a lesser God would certainly be spawned from Despair; as that is a very strong emotion which can drive the individual to do a vast range of things to themselves and others.
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Lord_Mortirion
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 04:48 PM


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QUOTE (VESPASIAN @ Oct 22 2008, 04:24 PM)


I think that a lesser God would certainly be spawned from Despair; as that is a very strong emotion which can drive the individual to do a vast range of things to themselves and others.

and during the heresy there would be a lot of people all bummed out at the fall of the imperium... hence the lesser god DAVE!!!! god of despair and depression...

a vengefull emo hell bent on destroying happy people...


aoart from the emo thing, i think were onto a winner here... but how would a daemon of the despair god look??? unsure.gif
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VESPASIAN
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 05:03 PM


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Covered in self inflicted wounds such as cutmarks and burnmarks. You could also add various objects pertruding from the flesh, sigils, knives etc.

Hooded face, of which only the lower part can be seen. Wearing tattered robes/hooded tabard.

Then add some more formulaic daemon imagery into the mix.
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Lord_Mortirion
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 05:57 PM


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biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif


just need some gs and a sculpting tool... might pick some up tomorrow...


dont forget chaps, i want as many people to partake in this, i like to read how other people interpret things...
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Gagoc TheAncient
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 07:20 PM


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You know what models would be a good base for CSM followers of Dave?
Dark Angels!

As for Malal here's what can be found on page 210 of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay book:
QUOTE
Malal is a renegade Chaos God, who has turned against the others and is dedicated to their destruction. His followers, sometimes called the Doomed Ones, seek out and destroy the followers of other Chaos Gods wherever they may be found.


Is it just me or does that sound the DA again?
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Lord_Mortirion
Posted: Oct 22 2008, 07:26 PM


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or the star child *cough cough*

joke lol


but if malal wins, what does he benefit... did he come about because of peoples hatred against the chaos gods...

and a lesser god, doesnt exactly mean it will be 'evil' like the other four...

i think GW are missing out on some sweet A22 background potential here...
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Lord_Mortirion
Posted: Oct 30 2008, 05:55 PM


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Had idea for Lesser Daemons last night, i was watching 'house on haunted hill' the remake not the funny vincient price one sad.gif

when all the black stuff startid floating around it made me think of 'Dave' the god of Dispair (if i had that stuff after me, id be a bit bummed out)... I imagined the lesser Daemons to kinda come out of the ground and pull victims back in to the realm where they came from... they dont actually materialise like the other daemons, as the god's power isnt as strong as the rest (or something like that) so all you see is the weird black stuff moving acros the floor with some whispy tendrils of random stuff floating about, you only really see the daemon when it attacks you and it becomes semi-solid (no sniggering at the back) tongue.gif

Then i had the whole 'what to model them from' issue... then my missus said, these tree people in ya mag look pretty blink.gif

1) I didnt expect to hear that...
2) Ents!!! Branches look like whispy black bits...

Painted and converted carefully i think i could be on to something, but how to make them look like they are coming out from the floor???


I thought of cutting down the feet, and have them moulded into the base with some whispy bits around them, paint the base a normal colour, but around the model paint it black, like the ground is corrupt where it stands, blended properly i think i could pull off the 'rising' from the ground malarky...


do i use the ent bosys as well, or Khorne Daemon bodys ( i wanna use some of the swords for my Word Bearers) as i will be ordering some...


any ideas... now i have a theme for my daemons, but i still dont know what to use... and there is some kickass sculpters on here... HELP!!!!!


im watching 'the return to the house on haunted hill' later, hopefully there might be something good on that, rather than a P* poor sequel, but first Green Street Hooligans me thinks...

lemme know what you think, thanx
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VESPASIAN
Posted: Oct 30 2008, 09:53 PM


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I've had a little more thought with regard to my Chaos God of Despair theme: resulting in some more Daemonic Forms for the minions of the God.

One of the strongest forms of despair encountered by people (and with its undoubted prevalance in the Warhammer world, one of the most collectively powerful), is that of the condemned waiting for their approaching execution. This would have a powerful impact on the appearance of the major Daemons/Daemon Princes of the God.

I thought that the Greater Daemons would therefore look like Daemonic forms of executioners. Wearing dark hoods, grotesque face masks etc. and being armed with beheading axes, and double-handed, double edged beheading swords. They have severed heads hanging like trophies from their belts; and a noose hanging loosely around the Greater Daemon's neck.

The Lesser Daemons could look like daemonic victims of these executions, exhibiting the vast myriad of different forms of punishment which are inflicted. Another type I thought of is that of a drowned suicide victim-a bloated, pale skinned victim-with wet hair and flesh, trailing water behind them: a little like Samara from the American version of the Ring.

This post has been edited by VESPASIAN on Oct 30 2008, 09:59 PM
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Battle Brother Loken
Posted: Oct 31 2008, 12:14 AM


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dryads sawed in half
if yah wnat to do this project i got losts of dryads cool.gif
but they even look demonic
and if memory serves the have the same rules ninja.gif
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Maratheus
Posted: Oct 31 2008, 09:34 AM


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One ancient Terran deity is mentioned in the first Horus Heresy book.
I think it was Sey-tan or something. rolleyes.gif
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The Red Sorcerer
Posted: Nov 3 2008, 03:26 PM


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Actually, the Chaos God of Despair already exists - Nurgle. Liber Chaotica, the modern successor to the Realms of Chaos books, makes it clear that although he may more commonly be seen as the Plague God, the 'base' emotion from which Nurgle draws his sustenence is despair. As Vespasian has already pointed out, the 'Big Four' gain their power from the four most powerful emotions of sentient beings. Which are (in GW World at least biggrin.gif )
Anger: Khorne
Hope: Tzeench
Despair: Nurgle
Pleasure: Slaanesh
Nurgle's strong association with disease/plague comes as this is one of the most common causes of dispair and lack of hope, as well as being a powerful recruiting tool for Nurgle.
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Lord_Mortirion
Posted: Nov 4 2008, 03:26 PM


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damnit, back to square one sad.gif
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Gagoc TheAncient
Posted: Nov 4 2008, 04:10 PM


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Lord Mortiron, there's still Boredom, Sadness, Confusion, Joy, Love, Angst & Worry, Self Loathing (probably Malal), Hatred, Fear and a whole load more.
Plenty to pick from.
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VESPASIAN
Posted: Nov 4 2008, 05:05 PM


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QUOTE (Lord_Mortirion @ Nov 4 2008, 03:26 PM)
damnit, back to square one sad.gif

Lord_Mortirion: Well there is nothing to say that our Lord of Despair is not a breakaway Daemon Prince, or other warp entity which has managed to detach itself from Father Nurgle's influence and begun its own rise to power.

A renegade God so to speak.

The first thing that such a renegade would want to do is change its and its followers visual appearance in order to distance itself as much as possible from an association with its former master.

Red Sorceror: D'OH!!! biggrin.gif
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The Red Sorcerer
Posted: Nov 4 2008, 05:30 PM


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QUOTE (VESPASIAN @ Nov 4 2008, 05:05 PM)
Lord_Mortirion: Well there is nothing to say that our Lord of Despair is not a breakaway Daemon Prince, or other warp entity which has managed to detach itself from Father Nurgle's influence and begun its own rise to power.

A renegade God so to speak.

The first thing that such a renegade would want to do is change its and its followers visual appearance in order to distance itself as much as possible from an association with its former master.

Red Sorceror: D'OH!!! biggrin.gif

tongue.gif

I think if you are aiming to have a 'breakaway' minor power, it would need to be a specific kind of despair if it was to have sufficient identity in the warp to breakaway from its former patron, rather than just being based purely on 'despair' - that would leave it effectively identical to Nurgle. For example, despair at being unable to find your keys despite the fact you know you left them on the bedside table last night and now you're going to be late for work AGAIN... or perhaps something slightly more 40K related! laugh.gif

One option for an alternative (inspired by the Heresy period) would be a minor God of treachery and betrayal...
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VESPASIAN
Posted: Nov 4 2008, 05:39 PM


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QUOTE (The Red Sorcerer @ Nov 4 2008, 05:30 PM)
One option for an alternative (inspired by the Heresy period) would be a minor God of treachery and betrayal...

Now thats an excellent idea, full of concept possibilities!

As I'm struggling to find and devise concepts for some 'lost key' related Daemons tongue.gif , I think that I'll stick with my previous ideas for Daemons.

So the Renegade God may have to feed on the despair of the executed and those that commit suicide. Both are aspects which have a very high prevalance during civil wars-so there would be alot of souls to feed upon during the Horus Heresy. wink.gif

This post has been edited by VESPASIAN on Nov 4 2008, 05:40 PM
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Lord_Mortirion
Posted: Nov 4 2008, 06:13 PM


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smile.gif

ow were the daemons split up again, wasnt it the greater daemon, then the lesser ones were split up in to steeds (juggers) normal foot types (bloodletters) and another type (fleshhounds)... i cant remember,,, sad.gif
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