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Pages: (2) [1] 2  ( Go to first unread post )

 There may still be records of the II and XI
MrBojab
Posted: Apr 21 2011, 12:30 PM


Battle-Brother


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It is possible that there is/was still records/knowledge of the missing legions.

In Salamander by Nick Kyme, the Salamanders find an ancient marine that had been alive since the heresy, therefore he may have had knowledge of the legions.

Also the Tome of Fire, Vulkan's Journal. This book would not have been editted by Imperial Authorities and although the meaning of it is unclear, hidden in the pages may be a reference to the two missing legions.

Although this is just a theory, I would like to know your thoughts.

Cheers
MrBojab
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Magos Explorator
Posted: Apr 21 2011, 11:55 PM


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Those are possible. There are others who will know, though: e.g. the Chaos Primarchs and original surviving marines from the Traitor Legions... unless somehow they all forgot!
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Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror
Posted: Apr 22 2011, 07:27 AM


Master of Ankhet


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QUOTE (Magos Explorator @ Apr 21 2011, 11:55 PM)
Those are possible. There are others who will know, though: e.g. the Chaos Primarchs and original surviving marines from the Traitor Legions... unless somehow they all forgot!

I'll ask Abaddon for you when I see him tomorrow for scones and tea. tongue.gif

Being serious though, I think that's easily possible, but GW just won't let us have any details whatsoever of the two missing legions. sad.gif
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Michaelangelos
Posted: Jun 17 2011, 01:50 PM


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ive created one of the lost legions II to be exact

and he says the high lords are idiots
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Leman Russ SW
Posted: Jun 18 2011, 12:17 AM


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Its hinted at in both Prospero Burns and Battle for the Fang that the Space Wolves had been used to attack other Marine Legions Before taking on the 1K Sons. So one of them must have been take out by the Wolves
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The 14th Expedition
Posted: Jun 18 2011, 11:20 AM


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Its clear from The First Heretic that all of the Primarchs knew the two Legions and their Primarchs and what happened to them - Lorgar mentions it when speaking to Magnus and is told not to say anything more of it by. From the conversation it is clear that one if not both were deliberately destroyed at the Emperor's behest and forbidden from being spoken of at all by anyone whatsoever all swore an oath - pages 160-169 is the conversation.
The Ultramarines certainly knew about it - it's also hinted they took on survivors from the destroyed Legion/s, as they swelled in numbers at the time when the Legions were destroyed.
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ShroudFilm
Posted: Jun 18 2011, 02:01 PM


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Of course records still exist - all human knowledge is recorded *somewhere* in the Imperium. But imagine the level of secrecy surrounding our modern day western governments... that's NOTHING compared to the level of secrecy employed in the Imperium.

In a universe of TRILLIONS of humans, I'd say less than twenty know what really goes on. The High Lords will not be in that twenty.
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Tatters
Posted: Jun 18 2011, 02:43 PM


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So those twenty would include


Alan Merrett
Nick Kyme
Dan Abnett
Graham Mcneil...


All kept alive for 40,000 years through meds, statis and the sacrifice of human souls right?
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ShroudFilm
Posted: Jun 18 2011, 06:15 PM


The Second Heretic


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Don't be silly, everyone knows Alan Merrett is immortal anyway.
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Brother Handro
Posted: Jun 18 2011, 09:31 PM


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I wonder what kind of event it must have been to bring about the destruction of a Legion (twice, assuming the reasons aren't connected), and have the whole Imperium sworn to secrecy and yet the Ultramarines are allowed (possibly) to absorb surviving Legionnaries?

Usually marines don't do things by halves. If they're not allowed to exist anymore and no-one's allowed to even talk about them you'd think they'd have been eradicated, especially if the Wolves got involved.

Moot point anyway, we'll never know!
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ShroudFilm
Posted: Jun 19 2011, 10:10 AM


The Second Heretic


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The only clues that we have so far as to what they actually did are that:

1) Their tragedies were 'separate' and unrelated

2) They somehow echo the Heresy in some way, or at least showed that rebellion against the Emperor was possible
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Brother Handro
Posted: Jun 19 2011, 09:35 PM


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Shroud,

remind me again how we know they echo the Heresy/show rebellion against the Emperor is possible? What's the source, I forget! laugh.gif

I remember that they are described as tragedies, so not straight out 'Chaos did it so now you must be exterminated', so i guess they echo the Heresy in that they may have fallen from grace gradually, as circumstances spiral out of control; the thin end of the wedge, like Magnus' boys an' all that.

Why are things more exciting when we don't (and can't) know the details?! rolleyes.gif
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BigWill
Posted: Jun 19 2011, 10:49 PM


The Sigillite


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What I would like to know is does Alan have a definite idea in his head on thier histories or is it vauge to him too.
Sure he could make one up after the fact,but did he have a plan all along for these guys?

I belive it was orginally nobody just a plot device for home grown army paint scemes
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ShroudFilm
Posted: Jun 19 2011, 11:50 PM


The Second Heretic


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QUOTE (Brother Handro @ Jun 19 2011, 09:35 PM)
remind me again how we know they echo the Heresy/show rebellion against the Emperor is possible? What's the source, I forget!

Rogal Dorn's scene in the arena, in 'The Lightning Tower', right before Malcador comes in.
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Brother Handro
Posted: Jun 20 2011, 12:15 AM


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@Shroud;

Thanks. +1 to your Lorecraft. smile.gif

@BigWill

I always had the impression that it was deliberately desinged to allow players to come up with their own fluff and paint schemes; as to whether they have something more solid in mind, probably not anything so defined, but they are probably amassing all the little asides we are fed in the novels in order for Alan to have a nice little web of knowledge, mainly in order not to contradict themselves later.

Consider Obi-Wan's 'I fought with your father in the Clone Wars'. Throwaway backstory line or slow-burning key plot device? Did George Lucas really have the plot of Episodes I, II and III in his mind as he was filming A New Hope?

No, almost certainly not, and writing Episode IV on his first film was (imho) just something that gave the story both added substance and coolness. It's the reason we all nerdgasm for the Heresy in the first place! (Plus Episode IV: A New Hope was tacked on afterwards).


Still don't think they'll ever explicitly come out with The Knowledge!
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BigWill
Posted: Jun 20 2011, 03:27 AM


The Sigillite


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Me niether
And part of me hopes it stays that way.
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Michaelangelos
Posted: Jun 20 2011, 08:59 AM


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so for my legion.


could i have it so i have some sort of civil war?

and when lets say luna wolves investigate, they end up meeting the heretic of my legion who open fire. This forces them to declare them heretics
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The 14th Expedition
Posted: Jun 20 2011, 01:24 PM


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Very minor point - "Heretics" is not the word to go for. As the Imperium of the 31st Millenium is secular, there is no heresy, as there is no religion. There is rebellion however, so I would use the phrase "rebels" in any fiction you make.
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ShroudFilm
Posted: Jun 20 2011, 02:18 PM


The Second Heretic


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No, 'heretic' is not an inherently religious term. It translates literally as "someone who thinks for themselves".

All of the traitors in HH are called 'heretics' quite openly. Again, ref. 'The Lightning Tower', with mention of the "sallow heretics".
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The 14th Expedition
Posted: Jun 20 2011, 02:40 PM


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Fair enough. Comment withdrawn.
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