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Title: Epic Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons


The Red Sorcerer - May 28, 2008 01:13 PM (GMT)
Right, well I've managed to do some painting recently and figured it was about time to post some actual models rather than just hanging out in the background section.

So, something a little bit different. Pre-heresy modelling normally takes lots of time and a well stocked bits box, neither of which I have at present. But I have very definitely been bitten by the pre-heresy bug and wanted to paint some stuff. After a recent increase in Epic logs on Warseer recently I had a great idea - Epic Pre-heresy! The marines are small enough so that they can be used as is (pointy helmets? Mk IV rather than Mk VI. Other helmets - Mk II or III rather than Mk VII) and many of the pre-heresy vehicle designs from the artwork are based on old Epic models, such as the Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders (the Epic 40K Land Raider was the inspiration for Forgeworld's pre-heresy version). Plus I had a bunch of old rhinos and marines kicking around from a previous foray into Epic many years ago. So, a bit of ebaying, a bit of digging around for my old Epic stuff, and the purchase of an Epic Ork Warband box from GW (44 new-style bases for 12, rather than 16 for 7 if you buy the bases on their own, with the additional bonus that I get all the ork infantry to make an Epic ork army later) and I was ready to start on a new project.

First off, I did a colour test to see if my planned scheme worked. I painted a couple of dreadnoughts, as I had plenty, and they are a perfect match for the pre-heresy style as seen in Collected Visions.
user posted image
I was pretty happy with how they came out, so next it was time for my first Tactical detatchment.
Rhinos:
user posted image
Marines:
user posted image
And all together:
user posted image
The bases are still unfinished, and there are one or two spots I need to tidy up when I finish the bases off, but overall I'm pretty happy considering it is my first foray into painting Epic for over 10 years.

So whats next? Well, I have a devastator detatchment in progress at the moment, which will include the dreadnoughts. I also have plans for a converted jetbike detatchment (to add to the pre-heresy feel) as well as a converted terminator detatchment if I can develop my greenstuff skills sufficiently...

Lion El' Jonson - May 28, 2008 01:17 PM (GMT)
Love your idea! make more :D theyre very nice, nice shade of red, makes them really stand out
B)

Weiss - May 28, 2008 01:37 PM (GMT)
Looking great man! Can't wait to see a whole horde of these guys!

Anodyr - May 28, 2008 01:58 PM (GMT)
Awesome work fella! And its good to see some more TS love on the forum! :D

I actually did some exploratory ebaying for Epic bits myself with a mind to creatiing some pre-Heresy units, but havent got as far as buying anything yet. Seeing these might push me over the edge though...

Iacton - May 28, 2008 02:23 PM (GMT)
These are top Red! And really good to have you involved amongst us painty types :P

Especially the rhinos. I so loved the vehicles in Epic, especially when you start getting into the big "exotic" stuff.

Seeing this and BFG bits lately is tempting me to stray from the true path.....

Anodyr - May 28, 2008 02:27 PM (GMT)
Imagine refighting the Battle for Prospero or the Dropsite Massacres at Epic scale... that would be top! (I feel my next project coming on...;))

Magos Explorator - May 28, 2008 02:45 PM (GMT)
Very nice--I like the shade of red, and their Legion symbol works well.

The Red Sorcerer - May 28, 2008 02:46 PM (GMT)
Lion, Weiss - cheers. Hopefully should finish the devastators sometime over the next week.

Anodyr - Go for it. From what I have heard online and from my own reading of the rules, the current Epic rules are the best version yet and the probably most balanced and dynamic game GW have produced. Plus its actually pretty cheap to put a force together - even buying from GW, enough marines for two full battle companies is a mere 12, and they are much quicker to paint than their 40K counterparts.

As for the battle for Prospero - I have actually worked out a 3000 point Drop-pod assault Space Wolf list as something I could use against the 3000 points of these guys I have planned. Which I am planning to work on once I have finished the Sons...

Iacton - See my comments regarding Epic above...

If you like the bigger vehicles, I'm planning on getting the Forgeworld AI Thunderhawk as a suitable centrepiece for these guys seeing as the Specialist Games one is far too small. I also have an old Epic Shadowsword that looks just like the 'Mammoth' tank from the Collected Visions I'm tempted to paint up as a TS superheavy later on in the project. Plus I'm sure I'll get round to Titans at some point - just isn't Epic without titans.

Magos - Cheers. The Legion symbol was actually easier than I thought it would be. Unfortunately I rushed some of them a bit, so will come back and tidy them up later. Hopefully its recognisable at least...

Iacton - May 28, 2008 03:06 PM (GMT)
No more spending....please!! You don't realise that for every new GW consignment that I receive, more shoes magically appear in Her wardrobe!

But we know WHY you are a red sorcerer now anyway, somehow wouldn't have been the same if you rocked up with a load of SoH would it!

The AI Thunderhawks are A-MAY-ZING, which one to get? I like the one with Land Raider (personally)

Anodyr - May 28, 2008 03:12 PM (GMT)
This brings up a question I've been curious about for ages - is the AI stuff done at the same scale as Epic?

The Red Sorcerer - May 28, 2008 03:21 PM (GMT)
Iacton - the one with the Land Raider is the THawk Transporter. There aren't actually any official rules for that one in Epic, so I'll be getting the standard Gunship version. I prefer that one anyway - more guns!

And I did assume my username would make my Legion of choice fairly obvious... ;)

Anodyr - Yep. Many of the Specialist Games aircraft and superheavies are actually undersized, wheras the Forgeworld equivalent is properly scaled compared to the 40K versions. Plus Forgeworld versions are actually cheaper than the Specialist Games versions in many cases - Warhound titans and Baneblades being notable examples.

Anodyr - May 28, 2008 03:40 PM (GMT)
I see... interesting... <_<

Funnily enough I actually downloaded all the Epic rules a couple of weeks back with the intention of delving deeper into it. Maybe its time for me to have a read...

Anyway, keep posting those pics Red cos they look great! :)

Vredesbyrd - May 28, 2008 04:59 PM (GMT)
Very nice. Very nice indeed. Reminds me of when I had to paint an Epic Ork army for my old store - they're alot of fun to paint despite being nobbit knee high to a grass hopper!

You must have some mental patience to paint the icons on your dreadnoughts mind...

I think I might have to try and dig my Epic out now. I need more for them though.

Damn you Red!

Ezekyle Abaddon - May 28, 2008 05:51 PM (GMT)
What a cool army, those dreads are perfect!

Haven't tried Epic yet but I might wonder over after looking at these :)

Great Job!!

ShroudFilm - May 28, 2008 06:49 PM (GMT)
I miss my Epic 2nd edition Nurgle army... 8000pts, including converted Imperator and 3 Warlords.

Rogal Dorn - May 28, 2008 06:52 PM (GMT)
forget the battle of prospero! lets do the seige of Terra! fear the yellow horde...of defence!

Iacton - May 28, 2008 08:48 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (The Red Sorcerer @ May 28 2008, 03:21 PM)
And I did assume my username would make my Legion of choice fairly obvious... ;)

Ah, but I just called myself Iacton cos I'm a dozy old man....

Still anyway, those IA T/Hawks are superb, so I'm looking forward to seeing one in the pink, I mean red! :D

The Red Sorcerer - May 29, 2008 10:25 AM (GMT)
Vred - hahahaha, all will fall to the Epic craze! Honestly though, if you have some old Epic stuff, dig around and work out what you have. I had enough marines for a full battle company, plus a detatchment of Terminators and as many Rhinos and old-style Dreadnoughts as I am ever likely to need. And I didn't even collect marines back in the day! So far I have spent less than 20 on this project, 12 of that was to get the new-style bases that I need, and I could have spent less if I had been prepared to use the old Epic:Space Marine era Land Raiders instead of the newer Epic:40K ones (which are, to be fair, much nicer models). Even when I splurge 18 on the Forgeworld Thunderhawk, the entire 3000 point army I have planned (a complete battle company, detatchment of terminators, 16 tanks, bikes and speeders, plus the THawk) is easily going to come in at under 50. Pretty reasonable really!

Ezekyle - Yup, the Dreads are a perfect match for the ones in Collected Visions. Was one of the main things that inspired me to do the army in the first place. Investigate Epic, seriously. Even if you don't have any old stuff you can still put an army togetther very cheaply with a bit of careful ebaying... download the rules and have a look.

Shroud - Shouldn't have sold it then should you! :P

Dorn - Feel free... ;)

Sillybugger - May 29, 2008 10:43 AM (GMT)
Nice army. It very red. I've got heaps of epic stuff SM,Elday,IG and orks i mean i've got heaps so stop tempting me to do this cause I wana make some cash off my epic

The Red Sorcerer - June 2, 2008 11:12 AM (GMT)
Right, well a little more progress has been made. I finished off a devastator detatchment as well. Like the tacticals, the bases are still unfinished - I'll try and get round to that soon. So, pics:
Marines & Rhinos:
user posted image
Detatchment with the Dreadnoughts:
user posted image
And the army so far:
user posted image
Next up I'm aiming to finish converting my first stand of jetbikes, and paint an assault detatchment. Crossed fingers the jetbikes will come out ok... my first attempt actually converting in 6mm scale...


Vredesbyrd - June 2, 2008 03:50 PM (GMT)
Very cool. I have one question though. How the devil are you converting a unit of Jetcycles for Epic?

The Red Sorcerer - June 3, 2008 10:23 AM (GMT)
Ahhh, now that would be telling ;)

Actually, if things go to plan I hope to post my first converted stand next week. Its going to take a lot of work to finish the unit though... bike detatchments in Epic are made up of 5 stands, each with 3 bikes - thats 15 6mm jetbikes to convert :o

Iacton - June 3, 2008 10:28 AM (GMT)
Hats off to you Mr Sorcerer, sir.

They are rather impressive and I am most intrigued about these bikes.

I've decided that you must have little tiny Jeremy Beadle hands to do these 6mm models :blink:

The Red Sorcerer - June 9, 2008 11:57 AM (GMT)
OK, well I haven't got much more done. However, I did complete the conversion of my first stand of jetbikes. For my first foray into 6mm conversion, I think it came out... OK. My GS work could certainly do with some improvement - which is why I tried to cover as much of it as possible up ;) - but hopefully it will improve over the course of the rest of the unit.

From the front:
user posted image
side:
user posted image
and rear:
user posted image
Hopefully the paint job will help cover up the less convincing parts of the conversion and they'll look the part when finished.

Weiss - June 9, 2008 12:03 PM (GMT)
Man, from what I can see, you have nothing to be embarrassed about, especially working at that scale... They look absolutely great. How much of them is green stuff?

Anodyr - June 9, 2008 12:19 PM (GMT)
I reckon they look pretty damn great. If you are feeling ambitious you could try doing the spread eagle on the fairing, but they look perfectly good without it if you cant be bothered. What did you have to do to convert them?

Vredesbyrd - June 9, 2008 02:29 PM (GMT)
Wow. Converting in 6mm is just madness, but you've pulled it off. I'm massively impressed and wanting to know what you made them from?

The Red Sorcerer - June 9, 2008 02:52 PM (GMT)
Cheers guys!

As for how I made them, I started off with the original plastic marine bikes... you can see them on the sprue here. I chopped off the stand at the bottom of the models with nail/sewing scissors and filed the bottom down a bit. I then drilled a hole in the bottom and mounted them on paperclips. I built up the bottom of the bike with GS, making sure it completely covered the wheels but leaving as much of the previous detail as I could. Then when that had hardened I added the main jet exhaust (chopped off the plastic pen tube from inside a biro) and the smaller jets on the sides (made from some very old plastic skeleton spears I had lying around) and stuck them on the base.

@Anodyr: The jetbikes in the artwork that have the ornate eagle and wings on the front are Emperors Children or Custodes bikes - the examples from other legions tend to be less ornate, so I decided not to attempt a big eagle on mine (OK, I'll admit laziness was also a factor!) . I will however paint the raised detail at the front of the fairing in gold (I'm not sure if its supposed to be an aquila or a headlamp, but I'll paint it as an aquila) in order to tie in with the eagle on the front of the jetbikes in the artwork.

Iacton - June 9, 2008 03:18 PM (GMT)
Great stuff, I always thought that they looked like they should be jet bikes rather than normal bikes anyway, cos they don't look like any other version of standard scale marine bikes, so thanks for realising my suspicions ;)

The Red Sorcerer - June 10, 2008 10:42 AM (GMT)
Cheers Iacton. Yeah, the streamlined fairing at the front in particular looks pretty similar to the jetbikes in Collected Visions so they are a good base for the conversion (plus the fact I had a bunch of them lying around of course!)

Now I need to get them painted and see how they look.

Gagoc TheAncient - June 10, 2008 04:46 PM (GMT)
They're very similar to the metal SM Jetbikes GW did for Epic.

The Red Sorcerer - June 11, 2008 09:55 AM (GMT)
You mean these guys (bottom right)? Well sort of, but those are alot smaller, and alot less rounded in design. They were based on the original 40K Imperial jetcycle here. I acually saw some of those on ebay and considered bidding on them, but I think this conversion looks more like the jetbikes in the artwork.

Gagoc TheAncient - June 11, 2008 08:46 PM (GMT)
Well it's been a while since I saw that model, but no I don't think so.

Pacific - June 12, 2008 09:54 AM (GMT)
Wow amazing! I love what you have done so far with the paintscheme, the little icons and legion symbol on the rhinos carrys it off nicely.

I definately think the converted plastic bikes look better than the older metal epic ones, which looked far too much like the old metal 40k ones (which I always thought looked terrible, the Imperial engineers must have been to the Lada school of aerodynamics!)


The Red Sorcerer - August 20, 2008 11:11 AM (GMT)
Right, well about time for an update, even if it isn't quite as extensive as I had been hoping. I signed up to the Tale of 40K Painters on Warseer with this army so put the painting on hold until it started this month (for the uninitiated, participants sign up to paint and post a set amount of points for their chosen force every month - for Epic this is 400 points). So anyway, now the thing is underway and I am making progress with my first months work - a stand of jetbikes, two landraiders and an assault detatchment of four stands. So here's where I stand at the moment - the jetbikes are essentially done, though I need to finish the bases. The Landraiders are nearly done - I need to tidy up one or two areas and do the icons. Unfortunately, my photos this time out were really bad - even after working on them with Picasa I coundn't really get anything I was happy with. Still, I'll post them anyway, and rest assured, much better pictures will follow at the end of the month when everything is finished.
Jetbikes
user posted image
user posted image
Landraiders
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Vredesbyrd - August 20, 2008 11:34 AM (GMT)
Hehe tiny toys!

I think these look awesome Red, but if you say they're unfinished I'm really looking forward to seeing them completed.

The Red Sorcerer - September 8, 2008 10:11 AM (GMT)
OK, well I finally got my first installment of the 'Tale of 40K Painters' done. So here we go:
Assault Marines:
user posted image
Land Raiders
Front:
user posted image
Side:
user posted image
Jetbikes:
user posted image
And all together:
user posted image

I still need to finish the bases, and I want to go back and tidy up one or two of the shoulderpads on the assault marines, but otherwise I'm pretty happy with them. The Land Raiders took alot of work to get the red right, both due to the extra detail and the larger flat surfaces compared to the rhinos I did before, but I got there in the end. Pretty happy with how the jetbikes came out as my first 6mm conversion, and pleased with the assault marines as well. NEXT UP (probably):Tactical Detatchment with Supreme Commander (converted Arhiman).

Iacton - September 8, 2008 10:46 AM (GMT)
Yeah I was gonna say that the pads look untidy...... :blink:

Not really!! Good lord! They just look like a fairly far off shot of standard size models now!

Great work.

What is your "red" formula for these guys (if you haven't spelt it out 80 odd times already :rolleyes: )

The Red Sorcerer - September 8, 2008 12:28 PM (GMT)
Cheers Iacton! Yep, the pads came out better than I expected, but there are still one or two that I want to tidy up nonetheless. I hope you noticed the lenses on the Machine Spirit of the Landraiders as well ;)

I was about to suggest some new occular implants for your venerable eyes, but then noticed that I actually hadn't posted my red recipe here yet. So here you go:

Over a white undercoat:
1. Basecoat blood red.
2. Wash with a mix of thinned red gore, a little black ink, and a little washing up liquid.
(3. Highlight with a 50:50 mix of red gore and blood red. I only use this stage on vehicles, the infantry don't need it).
4. Highlight blood red.

The Red Sorcerer - December 1, 2008 02:05 PM (GMT)
Updates! Finally.

The latest addition consists of my Supreme Commander's detatchment. I decided to attempt a pre-heresy Arhiman conversion for this guy, basing him on the artwork below:
user posted image
Obviously I wasn't going to be able to recreate it perfectly, but I identified certain elements that I could copy - halberd-like weapon with a curved blade, enclosed helm with a golden faceplate, cream robes. I used the Chaos Sorcerer as a base as it was pretty close to what I was after already, trimmed the crest of the helmet down, and removed the top of the staff and replaced it with a curved blade from an old Beastman mini. His bodyguard also have similar helmets, so rather than use standard marines I used some of the old Chaos marines with their crests removed - the chaos warrior style helmets look pretty similar to the helmets of the squad in the picture. Finally, the command squad have gold trims rather than white in order to make them stand out from the regular marines. The rhino for the command squad also has a bit of added gold decoration, and I used a scarab design to designate the command squad to tie in with the pre-heresy iconography of the Thousand Sons.

Pictures aren't particularly good - I'll try and get some better ones eventually. Anyway, here's Arhiman and his command squad:
user posted image
The whole tactical detatchment:
user posted image
And the Rhinos:
user posted image




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