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Title: Interesting Betrayal builds
Description: tooling up characters and units.

Gagoc TheAncient - November 19, 2012 12:47 AM (GMT)
Recently I was talking to the guy who beat my Dark Eldar with his Betrayal list force. He'd only bought the book after taking a good look at mine.

And he pointed out that you can build some really interesting, if not beardy, characters and units.

Here's the example he gave me.

Legion Centurion Consul Forge Lord, Terminator Armour, Lightning Claws, Graviton Gun, Conversion Beamer, Cyber Familiar.

That's a 200pt, one-man killing machine!

I in turn pointed out that you could give him an Augury Scanner instead of the Graviton Gun, for deep striking enemies.
His reply was that he'd only do it if he had the Servo-automata armed with Rotor Cannons accompanying him.

Has anybody else come up with such 'Interesting' units?

Carralak - November 19, 2012 07:02 AM (GMT)
what sort of terminator armour did he use? cataphractii or regular?

Gagoc TheAncient - November 19, 2012 04:07 PM (GMT)
I think it was ordinary Terminator armour.

Lord Commander Lucius - November 19, 2012 09:46 PM (GMT)
Minus the conversion beamer and graviton gun, that's exactly the commander of my IW allied contingent. Nice to see that I'm on to something, mine uses cataphractii by the way.

Gagoc TheAncient - November 19, 2012 11:29 PM (GMT)
Well after checking a few facts and stats Cataphractii would be better as you can assault right after firing the Conversion Beamer.
That and the better Invulnerable Save.

Carralak - November 19, 2012 11:49 PM (GMT)
i don't really like the terminators in betrayal. i'm much happier leaving my IW HQs in power armour (except my siege breaker... but that might be because my siege breaker is based on Forrix)

Vinnie - December 3, 2012 10:05 PM (GMT)
A unit I've had my eye on is:
10x Heavy Support Marines with heavy flamers and a rhino - 270 points

I'm trying to rind a rule or caveat that says I can't do it, because it seems a little too miserably hideous to comprehend. But if I can... I find that quite a scary prospect.

Carralak - December 3, 2012 10:37 PM (GMT)
i find myself rather upset that the Moritat can't take hand flamers, because infinite flame templates would be hilarious...

Gagoc TheAncient - December 4, 2012 06:17 PM (GMT)
Vinnie, your Heavy Support Squad is legal but if you're going up against Imperial Guard Hardened Armour will give them better survivability against IG tanks.

ShroudFilm - December 6, 2012 03:58 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Carralak @ Nov 19 2012, 11:49 PM)
i don't really like the terminators in betrayal. i'm much happier leaving my IW HQs in power armour (except my siege breaker... but that might be because my siege breaker is based on Forrix)

Why don't you like them, if you don't mind my asking?

Also - according to the artwork, Forrix is a Cataphractii... :D

Carralak - December 6, 2012 07:07 PM (GMT)
general terminator squads i'm happy with, but it's HQs in the armour i'm not too sure on. i'd just rather take an iron halo or refractor field. it's more opinion than there being an actual problem :P

and yeah... trouble is when i made my forrix, it was before betrayal and before angel exterminatus... ah well. i'm happy with him as a terminator :P

Gagoc TheAncient - December 29, 2012 07:46 PM (GMT)
I've just discovered another interesting and possibly broken build.

I'd like your verification and opinions on it.

Legion Destroyer Squad
1x Sgt., 4x SM
Equip entire squad with Jump Packs.
Has 5 models in squad so can take Missile Launcher. (Yes you did read that right!)
ML has Suspensor Web and Rad Missiles as standard.

Now I've had a quick check of both HH: Betrayal and the 40K rulebook and I can find nothing that prohibits giving the ML to a JP equipped marine.
If you do know something that does prohibit this, please point it out to me.

Noserenda - December 30, 2012 01:47 AM (GMT)
The only prohibiting factor is insane cost...

Brother Handro - December 30, 2012 02:57 AM (GMT)
Heh, well spotted Gagoc. I've seen this idea bandied around a lot recently, although no-one's actually produced a finished model yet. (That I've seen anyway).

The unlikely combination of a Missile launcher-toting jumppack marine is precisely why I want to run one in a squad of Destroyers, despite the prohibitive cost and (apparently) limited usefulness of the unit. That, and the fact that they're one of the Death Guard's 'signature' units.

BigWill - December 30, 2012 03:22 AM (GMT)
Well allow me to retort
Missile Packing Destroyer
I used an old school plastic Launcher, had to finagle it a bit.
Bottom vent is a touch crooked,but it not too bad
user posted image
user posted image
Hey Handro I just figured out the Skeleton Warrior Sprue arrow is perfect for a Helmet Spike ;)

Yvraith - December 30, 2012 04:28 AM (GMT)
You could always just chop up a normal missile launcher arm for the launcher & then have the guy carrying it, have it on a sling.

This is what most infantry units do now days, so why wouldn't an astartes do it?

Gagoc TheAncient - December 30, 2012 04:21 PM (GMT)
So when I imagined the scenario of the first player deploying Angron and the second answering with Four Destroyer squads, Jump Pack equipped and up to Two Missile Launchers each, which they would fire and then follow up with Hammer Of Wrath during the assault phase....

It's actually feasible! :huh:

Be interesting to see what would happen in such a scenario?

And why do I keep imagining Angron doing a Hulk impression?
"Angron smash annoying Destroyer Squads!" :D

P.S. Wouldn't it be easier to just give the Destroyer with the ML either the Mk IV Jump Pack, or the Sanguinary Guard JP without the wings?
user posted image

Brother Handro - December 30, 2012 05:41 PM (GMT)
@BigWill please tell me you already had that built and didn't just do it because I said I hadn't seen one! :lol:

Good idea will the skeleton arrows scale-wise, but I always preferred a conical spike rather than a flat Vee.

@Gagoc good catch with the MkIV jumppack.

Would a standard plastic two-handed ML arms set be that intrusive anyway? That's how I was thinking about doing it, or converting a hunter-killer into a one-handed pose, (I've seen tutorials knocking about for that), held horizontally, away from the body.

BigWill - December 30, 2012 07:48 PM (GMT)
@Handro it was already built,I bought an old plastic missile Mk7 that I used his arm last week for this build.
I wanted to build the unit as soon as I read it,Missile Jump pack common how can you not ;)

@Gagog where were you two days ago,Great idea

Gagoc TheAncient - December 30, 2012 08:07 PM (GMT)
Probably planning how to use the unit I was hoping to give the SG jump packs to, BigWill.
It's how I stumbled on this particular build in the first place.

I'm just wondering how many people face-palmed themselves when I mentioned using the Mk IV/SG jump Packs? ;)

Does anybody know of anymore of these types of builds in Betrayal?

ShroudFilm - December 30, 2012 09:33 PM (GMT)
I've got my World Eaters jump pack missile Destroyers on the building block at the moment - I've gone with the more compact 'handheld' ones from the Tactical squad, just because one of them is kneeling down and the other is in flight.

Truth be told, I did this because I didn't want to have to think about backpack choices... :lol:

Just to let you all know, in the playtest version, every Destroyer could dual-wield Plasma Pistols. THAT was disgusting - a perfect Space Marine killer!

Azkaellon - December 30, 2012 10:19 PM (GMT)
i tried putting that build together after i'd read the short story from the bl or gamesday anthology book (can't remember which).

i fought for ages with the fw launcher then decided to look at the one from the scout squad and have the marine hold the tube underslung ready to lift up

user posted image

Gagoc TheAncient - December 31, 2012 08:10 PM (GMT)
So how many of us will be fielding this type of Destroyer Squad?

I now plan on doing one.
Anyon else?

Mortarion - December 31, 2012 08:20 PM (GMT)
I will be fielding Destroyer squads with ML's but wont be giving them Jump Packs. Doesn't fit the Iron Warriors style

Gagoc TheAncient - December 31, 2012 09:25 PM (GMT)
Shroud, I played against someone who had a Moritat.
After discussing it with me and some rule checking he ended up with Two Plasma Pistols.

So I have a very good idea exactly how heinous a Destroyer squad armed that way is!

And you probably have a very good idea how Heinous the Moritat is with plasma pistols and his Chain Fire rule.

Pity Mortarion. You're obviously not as crazy as the rest of us! :lol:

Carralak - January 1, 2013 01:52 PM (GMT)
i've already started on my IW destroyers. when i've built them up to 10 men i'll probably give them a ML but i'd rather shove them in a rhino than give them jump packs

ShroudFilm - January 1, 2013 04:44 PM (GMT)
A Rhino with a big Forgeworld dozer blade seems very characterful, actually, for the Iron Warriors... :)

Carralak - January 1, 2013 10:20 PM (GMT)
i'd love to have an army of rhinos like that but forge world is a bit costly. i'm happier just using dozer blades from imperial guard tank kits.

on another note: one thing i rather like about the betrayal book (and i hope i'm not reading it wrong) is the ability to give my vindicators power of the machine spirit :D

Wolf Lord Mjolnir - January 2, 2013 01:00 PM (GMT)
Sons of Horus Seeker Squad (x9)
Dread Claw drop pod (Sons of Horus can take these as dedicated transports)
9 combi plasmas
Moritat with (you guessed it) twin plasma pistols

That's 20+ plasma hits arriving where you want them, hitting on 2+ and a reroll to hit on turn 1!

Comes it at around 475pts!

I doubt any squad (and most vehicles) could survive that.

Gagoc TheAncient - January 2, 2013 06:55 PM (GMT)
Mjolnir, are you only expecting nine extra shots from the Moritat's Chainfire ability?
If you are I suggest that you may be underestimating how many shots you can get.

A Plasma-pistoled Moritat alone can wipe out entire squads thanks to the Chainfire rule!

Noserenda - January 2, 2013 09:01 PM (GMT)
But cant join squads :/

Cataphract characters in heavy weapon squads is nice ;)

Gagoc TheAncient - January 2, 2013 09:44 PM (GMT)
Sorry Noserenda, what?

If you're talking about the Moritat, they can't join any squad except Destroyer squads.

So although the Moritat can't join Mjolnir's Seeker squad, he could do so if it was a Destroyer squad instead.

Wolf Lord Mjolnir - January 2, 2013 10:40 PM (GMT)
Destroyer squads in Sons of Horus armies cannot take dreadclaws - the moritat sounds very nasty but I think I prefer the fluff and idea of the Seeker squad, especially for Sons of Horus - going for the throat or in Cthonian the 'Aebathan' strike.

Inquisitor Malaclypse - January 3, 2013 12:26 AM (GMT)
Nice ideas...I personally like the Sang Guard jet pack with a 40K ML.

I know, not necessarily a PH look, but you could make concessions/conversions for the webbing they have.

BigWill - January 3, 2013 07:25 AM (GMT)
I think Sanq Guard is totally PH IMO
I explain the Deathmasks as they are like custodies for themselves they are dead they only live to protect the Primarch.
So it would be their Deathmasks rather than the representation of Sanquinius like stated

I think a fun game would be to use World Eater Betrayal list vs. Ultramarines codex list

Wolf Lord Mjolnir - January 3, 2013 12:12 PM (GMT)
Am I missing something - why is everyone going on about Destroyer squads?

They have rad grenades and a rad missile but other than that?...

Carralak - January 3, 2013 01:06 PM (GMT)
at this point i think we're more talking about them because they're the only squad a moritat can join

Gagoc TheAncient - January 3, 2013 09:40 PM (GMT)
What Carralak said and the fact you can give a Destroyer squad a Missile Launcher and Jump Packs!

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