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Title: The Primarchs (book)
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Thousand Son - July 28, 2012 11:44 PM (GMT)
:( I can't find the thread so I guess I'm late and the search function won't work for me, but, did you do a thread on this book? I just want to see if everyone else was bored to tears by this book. if I'm honest, I just can't find the strength to finish it. This has to be the worst one since Battle For The Abyss?

ShroudFilm - July 29, 2012 12:13 AM (GMT)
It's a New York Times Bestseller, so I think you're in the minority... :D

If you can, take a look at the last story - 'The Serpent Beneath' by Rob Sanders. It's one of my favourite HH stories ever, and that's saying something!

Pacific - July 29, 2012 12:17 AM (GMT)
I have to be honest, I had been sticking to the old adage of "If you haven't got anything nice to say... " :P

I agree it is probably the book I have enjoyed least in the Heresy series so far, and by some margin. Possibly because 'The Reflection Crack'd' put me in a belligerent frame of mind for the rest of the stories in the book - to be brutally honest, I can't reconcile myself to the fact that the same author had previously written books of the quality of Mechanicum and A Thousand Sons, and can only assume that a doppleganger replaced Mr McNeil when writing that story in a nefarious attempt to sully his good name.. :D

EDIT - Shroud, selling figures aren't necessarily an indication of the quality of something, as you well know. Look at the music billboards, or film and book charts, and a good percentage of it will have been generally derided by critics as being pap.

BigWill - July 29, 2012 12:33 AM (GMT)
Goto in the Abyss
:lol:

Brother Handro - July 29, 2012 01:44 AM (GMT)
Heh, when did this book come out?

- Because I still haven't finished it. :lol:

The one true test of whether I like a novel or not is if I can't put it down and finish it in two days, tops, and this one, yeesshhh, it's been months.

I'm about to start The Serpent Beneath so will reserve final judgement til then but, yeah....underwhelming I suppose.

Not complaining mind, the more the give us, the harder it is to sustain the quality.

ahriman - July 29, 2012 07:48 AM (GMT)
yeeeah...I too started it quite a while ago and have now left it half way through The Serpent beneath and been reading other things instead.

Personally liked the Reflection Crack'd although I'm still umming and arring about whether I like the twist of the tail.

Overall disappointing book which told a few tales that didn't need telling, the Iron Hands one especially...

Noserenda - July 29, 2012 09:39 AM (GMT)
The Iron Hands story went nowhere but the rest of the book was awesome, especially Serpent beneath...

Endymion - July 29, 2012 09:59 AM (GMT)
1st post, so be gentle :)

Personally I really enjoyed the Primarchs ( as i have enjoyed the whole HH series ), each novella adds another layer to the whole, wether the big reveals of the Lion or Serpent Beneath or the fleshing out of Ferrus Manus's character or the Fulgrim "is he isn't he question " ( not sure about actually posting the nitty gritty so am being as vague as i can !).

I hope that BL continue with " the Primarchs" novella concept to cover all of them.

Yvraith - July 29, 2012 11:05 AM (GMT)
I liked most of the tales to some degree.
I really enjoyed "The Lion" & "The Serpent Beneath"

The one thing that jumped out at me from the Iron Hands story, is that they seem to be the exact opposite of the Salamanders... in regards to compassion towards normal humans, which I thought was interesting.

As for Fulgrim, I have now officially gone past feeling sorry for him.
Which is a shame really, as Graham McNeil did a great job of evoking a mix of disgust & hatred of him, which then for me turned to pity at the end of the book.

Pacific - July 29, 2012 02:22 PM (GMT)
Yes I think 'The Serpent Beneath' was the best story of the book, even if it did perhaps go a little like 'The Departed' at the end with the number of twists.

++SPOILERS++

Don't continue to read if you haven't yet read the Primarchs..

OK.. that Lion El'Johnson highway-stop toilet scene..

GOT YOU... now please stop reading..

Regarding 'The Reflection Crack'd', I think that is probably a good point regarding the Fulgrim book. In the full length Novel, I thought that McNeil really had the whole 'grim dark' thing nailed with the conclusion of that book, and it was an absolutely spectacular climax to the story. Fulgrim looked about himself during the final battle, finally realised what he had done to his Legion, realised the depth and scale of the mistake he had made, and in a moment of utter humility and acknowledgement of that failure just let go of everything. It was as painful to read, but I thought wonderfully written.

I think that is why the Novella disappointed me so much - it managed to undo all of the emotional impact of that book, the actual foundation of the story arc itself, and replaced it with something crass and uninspired. Perhaps most importantly, it removed that 'human' emotional element from the original story. Despite Fulgrim being something of an arrogant ass, causing untold pain and suffering, I think most readers could identify with what happened to him at the end of 'Fulgrim'. Why he did the things he did, and I thought it tied in nicely with the original concept of the Primarchs; That despite their absolute physical mastery, inside they were all too human, and vulnerable to the vices and negative emotions that can afflict the common man. 'The Reflection Crack'd' replaced that element of character that the reader could relate to with something far more two-dimensional, and immediately disconnected the relationship to the reader.

As well as that the action sequences were completely OTT, just missing giant 'WAZAAM' and 'KAPOW' luminous cut-outs stuck to the page to complete the transformation to comic book - they completely missed the kind of gritty realism that other stories in the sequence have managed when describing action sequences.

Some of the character's were also inconsistent with what we have seen before; Eidalon's in particular was completely out of whack, and nothing at all like the snivelling sycophant we saw in other stories - I can only assume that it was something done deliberately, as it was such an obvious change in character? In any case, a disappointing departure for that character, as he was a great 'baddie' in Fulgrim, and a character that the reader despised by the end of the book. When you have such a good antagonist, I don't think he should be wasted by being killed off in such a throwaway manner half way through the story, and it made me think of what Lord of the Rings would have been like if Grima Wormtongue had fallen dead off of his horse a chapter into the second book.

I realise this may have sounded overly critical, but I care enough about the book series (and am enough of a nerd that I get worked up about such things - meanwhile athletes take part in the Olympics, and a hundred people are killed by bombs in Baghdad) to hope that sometimes less can be better, and I hope future releases can be cherry picked a little more rather than just throwing everything out there. The Primarchs almost came across to me as something like the literary equivalent of a collection of B-sides, and with the 'Reflection Crack'd' in particular, it's almost a bit of a 'greedo shot first' moment for me - where I would rather the story didn't exist as it has ruined the earlier, and much better, Fulgrim for me!
Perhaps part of the problem is that while Dan Abnett, and in particular ADB (I came to this book having previously read the end of the Night Lord series) have set the bar so high that when other books don't reach that scale of writing, in terms of the scale of their characterisation and emotional investment they draw from the reader, then invariably disappointment must follow.

But, the end result is that now that will be the last time I just pick up a HH-series book without reading a couple of reviews on them first, whereas before I would have just picked up the book without thinking about it. Anyway, like I said not trying to be overly critical, but just give a bit of constructive feedback about where I thought one story in particular in the book went wrong. And, I appreciate that it's only a personal thing, and not everyone will agree with me. ;)

Mabrothrax - July 29, 2012 06:22 PM (GMT)
Whilst I certainly enjoyed Serpent Beneath, I am a little concerned -

++SPOILER++





there's a strong hint at a growing divide between Alpharius and Omegon that I'm not comfortable with, as well as potentially loyalist/traitor siding within the chapter. Do not like!

Oh, and what was the 'other suit of armour'? :huh:

ShroudFilm - July 29, 2012 07:23 PM (GMT)
I could tell you, but then I'd have to destroy your secret psychic base... ;)

All I will say is that out of all of the discussion I've seen online and in the GW/HH fandom, no one has guessed what is actually going on with the Alpha Legion.

The "facts" of it have been around since 'Legion', and it was all laid down a while ago so more and more could be alluded to as time goes on.

Sit back, and enjoy the h***f**k. :ph43r:

Dogbert - July 29, 2012 07:41 PM (GMT)
*SPOILERS*

I agree with you Pacific about the Fulgrim story. The Emperor's children were my first pre-heresy love (always hated Slaneesh so I hate what they become). That part at the end of Fulgrim where, as you describe, he looks around to see what he has done, how far hes gone, and then finally to be trapped inside his own mind by the daemon was really heartbreaking for me, almost as much so as to what happened to the Thousand Sons.
So when in this story you find out that all along Fulgrim has actually been in control the whole time I was really disappointed, as it ruined the idea of the real Fulgrim still trying to break free and a prisoner in his own mind. While I was happy to see Eidolon die, I agree it was a bit of a quick and surprising way to see him go.

Also the Gorgon's story was a fairly boring one. But I am not much of a fan of Iron Hands so that may have had something to do with it as well.

The Alpha legion had the best story I would say, and the future novels for them I think will really be fun, and as shroud says, massive headfu**ers.

Noserenda - July 30, 2012 06:33 PM (GMT)
Shroud, id like to say as a very public Alpha Legion fan I freaking love their arc so far, cookies for all!

kwll - July 30, 2012 06:53 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
there's a strong hint at a growing divide between Alpharius and Omegon that I'm not comfortable with, as well as potentially loyalist/traitor siding within the chapter. Do not like!

Oh, and what was the 'other suit of armour'? 


nice to see that the dark angles arnt the only legion that ended up on both sides of the heresy

is that extra suit of armour a lovely shade of gold with a very long name inscribed on it?????????

the lion just gave me more reason not to trust the first legion perhaps luther new what was going on and tried to save them and the unforgiven are the part of the legion with the lion not the otherway round or perhaps they are alpharius

as for the gorgon loved it as it fills that small gap in promethean sun where was he what was he doing :unsure:

Wolf Lord Asmunder - July 31, 2012 03:16 AM (GMT)
Did anyone else feel like the Relfection Crack'd was almost a complete retconn about the ending of Fulgrim? It felt to me like Graham decided he had made the Emperor's Children a little bit too grimdark, and so wrote that short story just so he could make everything "alright" for Fulgrim. For me, it felt like that entire short story had been written purely to change what he had established as fluff.

As for the other stories, I liked them. They all in one way or another showed a different, darker side of the primarchs. Though people may or may not actually like what was established, it fleshed out the primarchs into real characters, with their own internal conflicts.

As for Omegon, he obviously is one of the lost legion's primarchs. :rolleyes:

ShroudFilm - July 31, 2012 08:57 AM (GMT)
I've just finished reading 'Angel Exterminatus'... I wouldn't worry about the EC being too nice! :D

BigWill - July 31, 2012 10:12 AM (GMT)
A whole lot of them really are Alpharuis ;)

ahriman - July 31, 2012 10:13 AM (GMT)
If anything then Reflection Crack'd made the EC more GrimDark.

Before they were following the whims of a Slaneeshii daemon and dancing blindly to its tune. Now Fulgrim was shown this path by said daemon, before fighting back, regaining control and then still deciding to follow the decrepit path. Everything disgusting he's doing is because he's really fallen as opposed to being trapped.

Personally I preferred him being trapped in his mind, having to watch as his own body and god-like powers are used to defile what he once loved, but this root definitely means that Fulgrim is despicable all on his own.

Ilmarinen - July 31, 2012 11:14 AM (GMT)
For me, it makes Fulgrim much more of a bad*ss!

I love the fact that the daemon thought it had beaten him and would torment him for eternity, but Fulgrim turns out to be much more powerful than it realises. Hehehe.

The Lion and Night Haunter fought each other to a standstill. Corax almost killed Lorgar, but only because Lorgar was seeking his own death, before he became his true bad*ss self. Therefore, so far, Fulgrim is the only Primarch to have killed another Primarch, and he killed Manus one-on-one. Fulgrim had already stoved Ferrus's head in with his hammer and defeated him - the daemon only encouraged the killing blow because Fulgrim had a final moment of hesitation - if he hadn't hesitated, he'd have finished Ferrus all on his own, with no warp enhancement. That's pretty epic!

I like the way Fulgrim manipulates his Legion in Reflection Crack'd! He really is choosing his own (perverted) destiny, having fun along the way, and I think he's going to become a lot more powerful than we initially expected. Can't wait to see how he behaves towards the other traitor Primarchs from now on (particularly Horus!) and the showdown between Fulgrim and Guilliman is now going to be much more dramatic (particularly as I like Guilliman a lot more since Know No Fear).

Pacific - July 31, 2012 12:15 PM (GMT)
Well.. I suppose it all comes down to the kind of conception of the Primarchs, and how you imagine them to be. 'The Reflection Crack'd' (henceforth referred to as TRC, so I don't have to write any more un-necessary apostrophes!) essentially reversed the character of Fulgrim as had been presented in the book of the same name. So, that story arc of his character, presented from the beginning of the book - his uncertainties, the 'chink' in his armour of confidence (despite him being superhuman) was gradually laid bare as the book continued, and finally exposed in the crescendo of the story. All of that is essentially made meaningless, as guess what, "I am so badass, I had you fooled all along"

QUOTE
That's pretty epic!


I agree, but I think you can have too much of something. Some of the action elements made some Final Fantasy cut-scenes look positively tame by comparison. I don't know why it didn't go the whole hog and have Fulgrim with have massive, gravity defying hair and then fly around screaming Japanese and firing laser beams from his eyes.

It's not really the 'superhuman' element I have the problem with though to be honest, more the severing of connection between reader and the character in the story. After TRC, I found myself completely losing interest - Fulgrim has now been placed firmly beyond the pale in terms of character development, with those elements of the story seemingly discarded and instead the focus is just on him dong 'cool' stuff like kill Titans with mind bullets. It's a puzzle, because I thought Graham McNeil had done character development so well in Fulgrim, and A Thousand Sons for that matter. Those books came across as incredibly tragic, because you were with those characters every step of the way, understood the decision they made even if you could not agree with them, and ultimately concluded that they were victims of circumstance. That for me, is the real 'heart' of what the Heresy should be about - Mankind, united in purpose and with the future of humanity within grasp, but then to have that snatched away by our own failings. For all that the Emperor could imbue his sons with superhuman physical powers, their psyches were all too human and they were open to the same foibles and avarices as mortal men. Hasn't that always been the tagline of the Heresy?

As I said before, it probably didn't help that I had read the end of ADB's Night Lords series before moving on to TRC. Speaking frankly, I don't think anyone writes character and emotion as well for Black Library at the moment - to be honest (and ADB has commented himself on this subject) I think it is extremely difficult for a writer to make the reader connect with something like a Space Marine. We have often been reminded how un-human they are in their aspect, and I think its very easy to fall into the trap (and many writers have done this) of some Terminator-esque comic-book character stonily gunning heretics down with a bolter. Yes, it can be entertaining at times, but it's not good literature and for want of a better term is something I would call 'pulp' and instantly forgettable, the sci-fi equivalent of a Mills & Boon, with hay-sheds and hunky farmhands replaced by grimly clutching of bolters and exploding heads. Where I think ADB excels is with his wonderful ability in managing to connect the reader to such otherworldly concepts, and that he made me empathise with a character that skinned people alive (someone who you would definitely not invite home to meet your mum), I think speaks volumes for the level of his talent.

Perhaps the key here (and again we come back to where I think TRC went wrong) is that the 'bad guys' in the story never really think that they are such. There is a clear line, between A and B, in terms of how the character has developed. Yes, they may end up doing terrible things, but they always think that they are behaving in the correct way. There is no such thing as 'evil for evils sake', and so any character arcs that follows that as a methodology will immediately come across as false and contrived. TRC might have been OK as a standalone story, but it's almost as if McNeil had forgotten the character focus that he presented in Fulgrim; the two are completely incongruent with each other.

Anyway, sorry for going off on one! Congratulations if you got to the end of that rambling mess.. :D

TL, RD: The Reflection Crack'd was a rare misfire from both McNeil and the series, don't read if you enjoyed Fulgrim..

Brother Handro - July 31, 2012 01:56 PM (GMT)
Great post Pacific.

Have to agree with you on this.

I know I'm a bit of a moaner, but if anyone cared to check, they would find that I voiced my concerns (whilst giving the benefit of the doubt) over the extract of TRC we had several months ago. It was just too OTT. There seems to have been a general trend towards sci-fi trope-oneupmanship in w40k recently, with one badass character after another.

Whilst that's understandable for traitor primarchs being boosted by daemonic powers in general and for Lorgar and his newfound convictional upgrade in particular, a complete character transplant for Fulgrim is not.

Generally speaking, all story-telling boils down to either tragedy or comedy. All 40k grimdark novels should obviously fall into the former category, with the exception of Ciaphas Cain. - The Heresy should be the epitome of tragic tales, and Fulgrim was a great tragic character, flawed by his hubris, crippled by the guilt of murdering his closest brother and paying the ultimate price.

Instead now he's somehow wrestled back control from a daemon holding him captive in his own mind and is just having a whale of a time killing titans.

Like Pacific said, if ADB can get us to empathise with fear-inducing murderers and sadists, flawed primarchs should be easy, but it's hard to empathise with someone who kills titans with a flick of the wrist, and the more badass a character is presented, the more he performs incredible feats of strength and power that stretch credulity even in a fantasy universe, the more bland and generic the reader finds him.

I'm not trying to be a fanboy of the original Fulgrim novel, (I liked it a lot but it's not my favourite), but it was strange to see this turn of events in character development... :unsure:

Ilmarinen - July 31, 2012 03:28 PM (GMT)
I do appreciate what you're both saying and I do see why it is a dramatic tangent for Fulgrim to veer away from being the tragic figure brought down by his all-too-human personality flaws that we initially saw in 'Fulgrim'.

However, I found the fall of Fulgrim to be too simplistic. "I want to be perfect" "I am the best, ha-hah" "I don't realise I'm being manipulated" "Oh no, I'm possessed!"

Fulgrim is arrogant. I don't think the deamon had nearly as much influence over him as it thought early on. If it hadn't been whispering too him, his own inner voice would have been saying the same thing! It's why his fall was so believable. Yes, he had a moment of hesitation when he was about to kill Ferrus, but he had set the entire situation up in the first place, and his reaction afterwards (seeking oblivion) was the very last tiny shred of his humanity.

QUOTE
"I am so badass, I had you fooled all along"

I don't think this is his character. I think he indulged the negative aspects of his character to the detriment of the positive ones. Once he was trapped by the daemon, his colossal arrogance would have reasserted itself and he would have seen the incredible opportunities of allying with Slaanesh. Having already done the unforgivable (murdering his closest brother), with his ego back in full control he wouldn't have any qualms about committing any further atrocity.

QUOTE
There is no such thing as 'evil for evil's sake'.

In general, yes, I'd agree - and most of the time it makes for bad villains. But with Fulgrim, he allowed his arrogance to overcome his nobility, committed murder out of spite, then voluntarily abandoned any last vestiges of remorse or humanity. Fulgrim is now enjoying being evil. He does whatever he wants, for the thrill of it being wrong, each time more extreme than the last, which is about as close to 'evil for evil's sake' as you can get. Angron feels rage and hatred, Magnus wants revenge and knowledge, Lorgar has belief ...but, no longer bound by any sense of morality, Fulgrim is just enjoying himself! :D

He's the first Primarch to fully embrace the power of the warp. Lorgar is still exploring the possibilities and writing his (second) book, Magnus is still sulking, Angron and Mortarion have yet to fall, but Fulgrim is fully committed. That's why he's portrayed as so awesomely overpowered. Gives you a hint of what the others will become, doesn't it?! :blink: And how Horus can challenge the Emperor.

Far from finding Fulgrim bland, generic and less-interesting, I'm actually finding him much more interesting now. When he was whiny and pathetic (hello Anakin!) I found him really irritating, but now he's an unrestricted bad*ss!

It really appeals to the 'if you had god-like powers and no morality, what would you do' in each of us (...or maybe just me then?!) :P

Oh man, I want to make some EC now... :lol:

cobra6 - July 31, 2012 05:02 PM (GMT)
Ilmarinen, I see what you're saying, although I lean more toward Pacific's point of view. Just for the record, if I had god-like powers and no morality, I wouldn't get strapped down to Fabius Bile's operating table while some of the most depraved Emps Children have a torture orgy on me - particularly Marius Vairosean's method! :blink: I guess I'll have to stick with Khorne..

ShroudFilm - July 31, 2012 08:56 PM (GMT)
I recall that when 'Fulgrim' came out, everyone was complaining about his free will being taken away (back to the "a daemon made me do it" argument) and then when Graham took it in another direction, we get cries of foul/retcon.

I think this is a classic case of "you can't please everyone", but I find it interesting to note which names are the ones that pop up on virtually everyone's favourite author list... :D

Personally, the most paradigm-altering book for me has been 'Know No Fear'. When Dan dropped that manuscript into my email inbox back in November, I started reading at 8:30am and didn't stop until nearly 9pm! I read 'Galaxy in Flames' back in 2006 and felt truly galled when I realised the trap that had been laid on Isstvan III, but the battle of Calth made me feel physically sick in some places. In a good way, like!

Dan didn't just up the game for the series, he upped the game for ALL 40k fiction. Even so, can you see how different Legions and primarchs are developing different characters, as it were, as the series progresses. Considering they were all very similar in 'Horus Rising', by the end of this year you won't even recognise many of the traitors as being the same characters any more...

THE AGE OF DARKNESS IS UPON US.

Pacific - July 31, 2012 11:51 PM (GMT)
Yes nicely written Ilmarinen, I see your point there.

Perhaps I will try going through the story again, and see if it improves on a second reading. I suppose if you are willing to pre-suppose those elements of Fulgrim, then it can make sense. But, unfortunately I couldn't reconcile it with the character we had been presented with in Fulgrim, of the ultimate flaw in his character that lead him along that path.

QUOTE
However, I found the fall of Fulgrim to be too simplistic. "I want to be perfect" "I am the best, ha-hah" "I don't realise I'm being manipulated" "Oh no, I'm possessed!"


Haha very good, that actually made me laugh out loud.. :D I know other people I have spoken to have criticised the book in that regard. But, to me it was a step forward from 'False Gods' in terms of dealing with the fall of a Primarch, and A Thousand Sons was better again at describing the fall of Magnus. I do think that Graham McNeil does 'tragedy' very well; I can't remember the exact quote, but there is a bit at the end of Mechanicum when the one Techno-Magus' tower is sinking into the lava, and he writes about humanities one chance to lift itself to a level of enlightenment not seen since the Dark Ages of technology being lost forever. Similarly in a Thousand Sons, where the horrifying reality dawns on Magnus at the end of the book that he is hopelessly outclassed by the forces arrayed against him. He reminds me a little bit of another novelist, Kim Stanley Robinson, who also writes in a very poetic manner at times when dealing with grand and sweeping events, and has the ability to make the hairs on your neck stand on end..

Shroud, that must have been incredible to receive the draft of that book! It has to be the most 'epic' title of the series so far, and I mean that in the original sense of the term! In fact the only thing I could criticise about it is the title, which invoked memories of a terrible early 90's chart tune when said repeatedly.. :D

ShroudFilm - August 1, 2012 08:04 AM (GMT)
That was an office joke for years...! :D

Midgard - August 1, 2012 05:57 PM (GMT)
Personally, I have enjoyed "The Primarchs" quite a bit. In my opinion, it was a collection of novellas ranging from good to great, and the overall quality had never dipped below my (generally high) expectations for the Heresy releases.

"The Serpent Beneath" was definitely the crowning moment of the book, easily on par with Dan Abnett's description of Alpha Legion in terms of atmosphere, quality, and the Legion's modus operandi. These Alpha Legionnaires definitely felt like they should, as compared to their counterparts in "Deliverance Lost", which did not exude the same sense of mystery and danger.

I liked "The Reflection Crack'd" as an exploration of what path the Emperor's Children took, and where the Slaaneshi dedication leads. In my view, the story was not as much about Fulgrim as it was about what his Legion was becoming, and the use of Fulgrim was a plot device to highlight the Legion's degradation. Plus, the torture scene made me think of horror literature and movies, in a good way - not because Fulgrim spouts various pseudo-philosophical sophisms, but because it foreshadows the true depths of the Legion's fall. After all, things are only going to get worse for the Emperor's Children, who, in my expectation, will slide even deeper down the rabbit hole by the time they are at Terra.

While my past (and, admittedly, limited) experience with Gav Thorpe's books has been mixed, I found "The Lion" to be one of the best examples of his writing to date. It moved along nicely while providing a good glimpse into some of the Lion's possible motivations. To put it simple, Gav gets the Dark Angels, and portrays them very effectively, while his characterization of the Lion is by far better than in both HH Dark Angels novels to date. "The Lion" made me think of "Angels of Darkness" in terms of style, but more evolved, and the story made me really look forward to release of Gav's "Ravenwing" in January.

"Feat of Iron" was not my favorite of the four novellas, but even that one was good. It felt a bit too short for its own good, almost as if it was a setup for another, larger story, but even then it was enjoyable, and did not seem out of place. I would really like to see a full-length Heresy novel from Nick Kyme focusing on the Iron Hands, especially as they seem markedly distinct from the "modern" Iron Hands of Chris Wraight.

So overall, the collection was very solid, with moments of brilliance amongst the backdrop of good, enjoyable fiction. I did not have to suspend my disbelief to the extent of being unable to enjoy the stories, while the stories were good, and provided quite a bit of entertainment. I breezed through all four pretty quickly, and my primary complaint is that there were not more of them - "The Primarchs" made me eager for more Horus Heresy, and proved that in the hands of competent authors, a novella can be a viable medium for telling the stories of Horus Heresy. Here's to hoping there is "The Primarchs 2" (and 3, and 4... you get the drift) in the works for some point in the not-too-distant future!

Thousand Son - August 11, 2012 08:52 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ShroudFilm @ Jul 29 2012, 12:13 AM)
It's a New York Times Bestseller, so I think you're in the minority...  :D

Sure. And I see you say it in good spirits, but I think it sold well due to the usual standard of the HH series. I've been a fan of the death metal band 'Nile' since their first album, seeing them go from strength to strength with each passing release for over ten years ( I have purchased all of them). Their latest album came out and it was a no brainer to buy it. I'm set up to love it, right? It was TERRIBLE, just TERRIBLE. I looked on their forum to find out that it's a chart topper in many countries. They posted thanks on line for this etc. etc. Every review online (and half the comments on YouTube) are made by people expressing how dissapointed they are). Everyone bought it on the strength of previous releases, so Nile sit there congratulating themselves with the full confidence to release another crap album because they are just sooooo talented. The bubble bursts when only the shallow fans are still interested. Just like the Metallica thing.

That's a long way of saying you only get to poo the bed once - or twice.
Yeah, I've had a long day... :blink:

adamwelton - August 12, 2012 02:36 PM (GMT)
I had quite a few expectations as a veteran GW follower, and wasn't disappointed thankfully, holding my breath throughout all four novellas. Great stuff. I can finally get a decent night's sleep knowing where Fulgrim's been and where Alpharius and Omegon are going. I may even be tempted to go after the Dark Angel HH books just to read more about the much-maligned Lion I know so little about.

It does me good to see a quality debate presented regarding a GW subject for a change, rather than the usual "ME! ME! I'M RIGHT! NOT YOU!" arse that usually follows. Keep up the good work chaps. I may yet be tempted to buy the sixth ed BRB after all.




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