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Title: The Epic Crusade

Whitehorn - April 21, 2011 08:40 AM (GMT)
Inspired by a half-whispered word, 'Epic', the denizens of the great battle barge Obduco set upon a mission to bring the Emperor's war to a new scale.

Flagship of the 117th expedition, the Obduco belonged to no single legion, but rather a conglomerate of command units from several formations. United in their efforts to maintain structure following the bitter Imperial defeat at Tigguo Cobauc, the ship spearheaded a unique gathering not seen since Ullanor.

Ad astra per aspera

Consolidating their forces, the assembled captains each spoke in turn, pledging an oath. An oath to the Emperor, an oath in blood. Unperturbed by their losses, and most welcoming of their brother allies, they found new vigour in this concerted purpose.


"I, brother Whitehorn of Terra, do swear to renew the forces of the twelth legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."


As a more dedicated thread to the recent Epic revivalamongst board members, here lies a combined blog for us all to goad one another unto greater efforts and purpose.

Those who have pledged:

Brother Cloud Runner: I legion
Brother ShroudFilm: IV legion
Brother Ilmarinen: V legion
Brother FLuff: VI legion
Brother Mortarion: VIII legion
Brother Lucius : VIII legion
Brother Vinnie: X legion
Brother Whitehorn : XII legion
Brother Apologist: XIII legion
Brother Ahriman: XV legion
Brother NeDlol: XVI legion
Brother Iron Corsair:: XVIII legion

Apologist - April 21, 2011 09:02 AM (GMT)
"I, brother Apologist of Calth, do swear to renew the forces of the thirteenth legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."

Ilmarinen - April 21, 2011 09:20 AM (GMT)
"I, brother Ilmarinen of Chogoris, do swear to renew the forces of the fifth legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."


Oh yes, I'm back in the White Scars groove. I intend creating epic versions of loyalist forces at the Siege of Terra, starting with the White Scars and eventually proceeding onto Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, Imperial Army and Titans (if I can find suitable Mars-pattern ones).

...then I'll try and recreate the same forces in 40K-scale! :blink:

Apologist - April 21, 2011 09:52 AM (GMT)
+++EDIT: Link updated+++

Linky to Tactical Command's current Adeptus Astartes lists.

The official approved lists are Codex Space Marines this is the list from the Epic Armageddon rulebook, with community tweaks approved by Jervis Johnson from back when the Epic community had a living rulebook and White Scars; again, a later 'Chapter Approved' list.

Aside from those, a number of lists are 'NetEA Approved', which means that the tournament community has tested them extensively and approved them over the course of at least one year (up to a decade, in some cases). Others are experimental.

I'd advise everyone to use the NetEA Codex Space Marines list from here, as it's extremely flexible anyway, allowing everything from Death Guard infantry hordes to Tallarn-style tank forces. White Scars are an exception, in my opinion, and are better served with the White Scars official list.

Whitehorn - April 21, 2011 10:09 AM (GMT)
Sadly the link to the codex is dead :/

In fact all links, and the alternative list are dead :P

Doghouse - April 21, 2011 10:36 AM (GMT)
Is this going to be pre-Heresy or Heresy era?

ShroudFilm - April 21, 2011 10:42 AM (GMT)
"I, Brother ShroudFilm of Terra, do swear to renew the forces of the Fourth Legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."

Apologist - April 21, 2011 10:51 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Whitehorn)
Sadly the link to the codex is dead :/

In fact all links, and the alternative list are dead

Odd... Are you registered on the TacComms forum? Let me know if you still can't get access and I'll load 'em up to Google Docs for us.

QUOTE (Doghouse)
Is this going to be pre-Heresy or Heresy era?

I'd vote for 'Isstvan to the Siege of Terra', as this allows the best possibility for marine-on-marine action, while also allowing some Great Crusade-era styling.

Also, from a rules point of view, I think it'd be much easier for all concerned if we all use the Codex Marines list:

1) It's balanced, being the most playtested and checked list of all!
2) Since Epic: Armageddon is new to lots of people, it makes sense that we use as few lists as possible.
3) It's a lovely nod to the original Adeptus Titanicus and the origin of the Horus Heresy background :)

Ilmarinen - April 21, 2011 10:56 AM (GMT)
Heresy-era would be easier, given the easy availability of Mk6 marines.

I'm really hoping we'll be able to do an epic version of the Siege of Terra at some point ...or should that be an EPIC version!!!

The only difference between the White Scars list and the Codex list seems to be the bike detachment, which can be bigger and gains 'walker', and being unable to take dreads, devs and reaver titans.

I'm happy to go with either option. FOR THE KHAN!!!

fritzagelmann - April 21, 2011 11:01 AM (GMT)
Why must everyone be so far away from me? So is this thread to just post pics of our painted minis, or to set up games/campaigns? I love you Epic, o how I love thee

Whitehorn - April 21, 2011 11:03 AM (GMT)
This thread is both a blog of our combined efforts at building, collecting, painting PH epic and playing with our forces. Everyone is welcome, as long as they swear the oath ;)

Hopefully it will culminate into one or more gaming sessions here or there.

I'm not fussed on era, but I will be painting my World Eaters in white and blue.

fritzagelmann - April 21, 2011 11:08 AM (GMT)
Great! I was concerned that I wouldn't be allowed at this shindig because we play Titan Legions as opposed to the more recent rules set Apo was talking about. As such, my death guard will be trouncing around very soon. Just as soon as I can find a way of applying the legion symbol to 500 lil men.

Apologist - April 21, 2011 11:15 AM (GMT)

fritzagelmann - April 21, 2011 11:19 AM (GMT)
I have other questions, such as:

Is this an Imperial only thread?
A marine only thread?
What about Squats?
and Eldar?

Doghouse - April 21, 2011 11:29 AM (GMT)
If it's heresy then I'll be continuing my Iron Warriors I started a while back.

Ilmarinen - April 21, 2011 11:42 AM (GMT)
We're still not sure about where squats fit in officially - I think Alan Merritt wants them to just die and stay dead.

Bugs are not PH/HH, so no.

Eldar were around, as were orks, so they're ok.

Whitehorn - April 21, 2011 11:54 AM (GMT)
All PH races welcome.

If the Tyranids killed off the squats, then they clearly existed before the arrival of hive fleet Behemoth.

Pre-heresy Squats!

Apologist - April 21, 2011 11:55 AM (GMT)
A 'template' Battle Company, that would provide a good basic force:

6 Tacticals, Transport, Captain, Hunter

6 Tacticals, Transport, Chaplain, Hunter

4 Assault Units

4 Devastators, Transport

This company runs at 1275pts, so would make up roughly half of the proposed 3000pt force.
In Epic: Armageddon, detachments are activated one-by-one. Part of your strategy will revolve around whether you go for lots of small detachments, or fewer, bigger ones. This sample force is a middle ground.

The 'Hunters' are anti-aircraft upgrades, and (in my opinion) a vital part. They can be used as anti-tank guns if there are no aircraft about.

'Transport' refers to one of the Space Marines' special rules. Since they are a mobile and flexible army, they can opt to take enough free vehicles to give them transport space: either Rhinos, Razorbacks or a mix. Alternatively, they can opt not to take transport and act as a garrison. This allows them to deploy further forward than the rest of the army very useful for snagging objectives early on, or intercepting your opponent's attempts to get close to your support units at the back.

The Captain and Chaplain provide upgrades to the stands they are included with, helping to remove blast markers (a mechanic that combines morale effects with the disruptive 'fog of war'). However, they're only very slightly more resilient than the marines they're with so don't overload on these chaps!

This force would provide a fairly decent core to a larger force, and could be complemented by expanding in different directions perhaps lots of tanks for an Armoured Spearhead, Thunderhawks for an aerial assault, or more troops to sweep away your enemy.... or of course a mighty Titan!

Bear in mind that Epic is a game of manouevre, and everything is surprisingly quick. Even footslogging Devastators can march 45cm (18in).

Forget everything you know about 40k. Here, heroes are trampled underfoot; tank formations are swept away; and the glorious elites of your army look no different to your enemy's guns than their less illustrious counterparts.

Forget the promises of science or the comforts of heroism in the grim darkness of the 6mm future, there is only war and the laughter of thisting gods... and whatever happens, you will not be missed. ;)

Mortarion - April 21, 2011 12:03 PM (GMT)
I, brother Mortarion of Nostramo, do swear to renew the forces of the eighth legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."

plus assorted guardmen, titans and whatnot...

Cloud Runner - April 21, 2011 04:34 PM (GMT)
"I, brother Cloud Runner of Caliban, do swear to renew the forces of the First Legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."

Well, it's Dark Angels for everything else, so why not this as well :P

Plus black is a really easy army to paint....

There's been a bit of an Epic-demic (!) at our club recently, so this is just the spur to get me cracking on it again.

As an aside, are there any sort of Heresy age rulesets out there to include such things as older unti types?

Sabres can easily be upgunned predators, but what about other golden oldies like jetbikes, spartans or even... Primarni?

Gonna have to dig out the rulebook and think about a list, though will probably end up painting what looks good and fits the army.


Lord Commander Lucius - April 21, 2011 09:12 PM (GMT)
"I, Lord Commander Lucius of Nostramo, do swear to renew the forces of the Eighth Legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."

Lucky for me i have a collection of old Space amrines with Rhino and Raider support to go with my IA and Warlord. I'm gonna enjoy this.

If we want a different legion as opposed to two NL ones, i could do Emperor's Children.

ShroudFilm - April 22, 2011 12:46 PM (GMT)
Are we going for Siege of Terra armies? I don't mind switching to RG or Salamanders if we need loyalists to even out the numbers, if not.

In fact, I've got cans of Army Painter green knocking about so Salamanders would be pretty damn useful actually... how likely is that stuff to obscure the detail?

Vinnie - April 22, 2011 09:07 PM (GMT)
And at the last, when the bandwagon had all but trundled by... With a running leap, a pained expression, and a resigned huff, I jump on that biz-nitch.

"I, brother Vinnie of Medusa, do swear to renew the forces of the Tenth Legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."

I don't even know how to play 40k properly and I decide to try another game system... stupid boy.

On a related note, may I please model an Epic scale Ultima Gate?

King Fluff - April 22, 2011 10:12 PM (GMT)
"I, brother Fluffy of Fenris, do swear to renew the forces of the sixth legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."

hmmm Fluffy of Fenris has a nice ring - well that's our boys name sorted :P

Whitehorn - April 22, 2011 10:58 PM (GMT)
I've dug out my mantis Warriors. It looks like I have:

Squads (2 bases of each)
6 Tactical
2 Devastator
2 Assault
2 Terminator
1 Scout

2 command stands
1 Librarian stand

Rhinos for all squads.
4 classic Land Raiders
5 newer plastic Land Raiders
6 Whirlwinds
1 Dreadnought
5 attack bikes
11 bikes (6 stands)

1 Thunderhawk Gunship
1 Warlord Titan

I'll post up a few pics of these models before they get fixed up and under-coated for a new legion!

King Fluff - April 22, 2011 11:41 PM (GMT)
I'll be getting the majority of mine from a certain auction site, although I do have 2 warlords and about 10 knights already. I'll certainly need someone to walk me through a game or two 

NeDlol - April 23, 2011 01:18 AM (GMT)
Hey, I've just reading up on the spacecraft rules for epic and I'm scratching my head at some wording they've used about space marine drop pods, it's where they imply space marines can break the allowance of 1 spacecraft... Anyone able to assist me on this subject? :)

Doghouse - April 23, 2011 01:33 AM (GMT)
Well to get the ball rolling here is what I have so far:

user posted image

Fortunately by amazing coincidence a very nice chap over on B&C has just sent me a load of epic stuff for this army so I should be expanding the force quite soon.
Rather than go OTT, I'm only converting a few of the infantry models into proper armour marks and will be passing these off as Mk IVs to get me started.

Ilmarinen - April 23, 2011 06:06 AM (GMT)
@Vinnie - tenth?!? And you told me off for planning some DG! :P

(That bit in Scott Pilgrim where the guy says 'For the band...'). 'For the Khan... you know, for the Khan?' 'but...' '...for the Khan!' :lol:

I don't even know how to play 40k properly and I decide to try another game system... stupid boy.

Hehehe, me too! :lol:

Very nice IW there Doghouse. What did you use for texturing the bases and what bases have you used for the vehicles? (flames of war?).

I wasn't sure what bases I preferred, but I think I'm decided on the long ones now (easier to paint the minis too!).

Can't wait for my stuff to arrive! :D


I'm also thinking about doing some Imperial Army to match my intended 30K scale version, which is going to be really old school (rhinos and land speeders etc).

Does anyone know if there's a second edition IG epic army list somewhere (or an updated version for E:A)? All the current lists are for the modern stuff like chimeras. Cheers!

Cloud Runner - April 23, 2011 10:10 AM (GMT)
Not sure if there's any updates for older sets etc, but I figure why not mix n match a little?

For example:

use the destroyer tank hunter rules for the Sabre - points as a predator
allow IG squads to have rhino's etc - same points as chimera, but no multi-las
stormbirds can easily be counted as a lander etc

Really getting fired up for this, so looking forward to what we make of it all :)


Doghouse - April 23, 2011 12:22 PM (GMT)
For the bases I'm just using standard GW bases but sticking vehicles on bases at this scale is a great way of making them a little more special.
The best basing material that I have found is fine grade railway ballast, you can use normal sand but the fine grade ballast works so much better.

The trick to making epic units is to go more for a diorama feel in my experience. Where as with regular forty kay you are a little limited by the base size the smaller epic stands are great for making little scenes, especially with the titans.

I think the best way of incorporating Imperial Army might be to use the one third rule like with titans. It'd be great to see some fellblades storming around the battle field.

I think as there are so many inexperienced players joining in this you're probably better off using proxy units ie; Vindicators as Sabres for example, when it comes to the more specialised stuff rather than making any rules up.
The game is much more simplified than forty kay where manoeuvring and tactics are much more important than who has what weapon.

I'd definitely stick to proxies within the same army though, once you start mixing and matching too much balance goes out the window.

You could allow rhinos for army troops and not take away the multilaser though so it still counts as a chimera in game terms. The rules aren't as specific as forty kay in terms of what has what weapon so it wouldn't matter too much.
You could easily have army landraider companies as well and not change the rules, just use the marine ones and change the paint scheme to be more of an Army scheme.

Personally I'm taking full advantage of the lander rules to build a stormbird.

Ilmarinen - April 23, 2011 01:12 PM (GMT)
I'm getting really excited about this too. Looking a little further ahead, if we all follow through with our plans, I think TGC will have the largest collection of Heresy epic in the world! If we then agree to do an event and can all make some suitably impressive scenery, then recreating battles from the Heresy in epic form would be utterly amazing! B)

@Doghouse - standard square epic bases, gotcha. :)

I really like the 1/3 rule - this would allow Fellblades and Fellswords like you said, and would allow Imperial Army Land Speeders and Land Raiders.

The Stormbird as a Landing Craft is perfect.

King Fluff - April 23, 2011 10:34 PM (GMT)
anyone have a FW thunderhawk for epic and if so how long and how wide is it.....Shroudfilm's not the only one with a plan :lol:

ahriman - April 23, 2011 10:45 PM (GMT)
I can't believe I'm writing this and this probably won't happen buuut....

"I, brother Ahriman of Cthonia, do swear to renew the forces of the XVIth Legion and unleash the Emperor's fury upon Tigguo Cobauc, alongside my battle brothers."

Now I have utterly no idea about epic and so will need a lot of help, i did a quick list from the army forge thing Apologist linked and it is as follows:

6 Tacticals, Transport, Captain, Hunter

6 Tacticals, Transport, Hunter, Librarian

4 Assault Units, Chaplain

4 Terminators, Supreme Commander, Land Raider


4 Annihilator

4 Annihilator

2 Warhounds

Comes to 3,000 pts exactly but is it legal/good/plausible?

Also how many rhinos would i need per detachment? Is it one for the attachment or one per base.

Plus when are people planning on doing this? I don't know how long it would take me to do this.

And finally, i saw discussion on rectangle bases vs round bases on the other thread but since i dont know the rules i dont know how each would effect the game. Personally i think the round bases look a lot better and as such am asking am i able to use round bases and for everything still to be fine?

Doghouse - April 24, 2011 12:10 AM (GMT)
As far as bases go a stand may be no more than 40 mm and no less than 5 mm across in any direction but must be at least 20 mm across in one direction.

As long as it fits into this you can do round bases if you want to. ;)

Ilmarinen - April 24, 2011 12:44 AM (GMT)
@ahriman - don't worry dude, a lot of us have never played epic and will need a while to learn the rules and put an army together.

I'm pretty sure it's one rhino per two stands (ie 10 marines, which makes sense) plus one per command squad.

Personally, I'm going for the long bases, partly because they're the current GW standard, partly cos I like the look of them ranked up and mostly because they're easier to paint (without the minis getting in each others way).

fritzagelmann - April 24, 2011 02:33 AM (GMT)
Am I the only person who paints his minis on the sprue and then attaches them to the base?

Whitehorn - April 24, 2011 12:14 PM (GMT)
The problem with painting 6mm on the sprue is that you have to repaint the backs after cutting them off the sprue...

ShroudFilm - April 24, 2011 12:18 PM (GMT)
I used to cut a 30cm length of sprue and blu-tack the minis to it, then paint them and put them into bases.

This time I fully intend to paint them up on the long stands.

Doghouse - April 24, 2011 01:30 PM (GMT)
The long bases are the best way to go in terms of painting because you can get to the models pretty easily, just glue them on and paint away.

The square bases work but are a lot trickier to get to certain areas of the minis.

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