Title: Grey Knights - new gaming material for 30k?
Whitehorn - February 23, 2011 10:31 AM (GMT)
|Grey Knights are an exciting release in their own right - an excellent elite force for the discerning collector of the best space marines on the market. They are equally exciting for the 'after market' hobbyists - those of us who get excited over bits, conversion projects and of course, cannibalising or proxying the army rules for something entirely different.|
The Grey Knight release is promising new plastic marines. This should provide us with some beautifully sculpted aegis/artificer armour for all sorts of conversion projects. There's also new models in the form of the Dreadknight and characters.
For those fans of the Storm Raven, it's also used by the Grey Knights, as included in their codex.
This is perhaps more exciting for the pre-Heresy crowd overall.
The Blood Angel codex was an exciting release for Thousand Sons players looking to load their forces with psychic powers and librarians, but the Grey Knights take things a step further with squad-level psykers. I will wait for the full release before forming a true comparison, but GK sound a stronger competitor for TS, if only to get rid of that pesky blood fury!
The Dreadknight. Knight. Is this too obvious or wishful thinking? A hulking (taller than a Dreadnought), piloted walker with monstrous creature stats. This opens up a new door for players who'd like to include Knights in their forces, but is this new unit a good reflection of what we all see as Knights?
As an aspiring rule writer, I put together some rules for Knights here, which are clearly very different. I plan to explore the Dreadknight rules thoroughly once the book is available. There's also some sensibly scaled models on the way - Iwonder how they'll stand toe-to-toe with their dread-brethren.
Daemonhosts. These could effectively translate the flesh-changed sorcerers of the legion, which is stated to occur throughout their back history, albeit rarer under Magnus' guidance.
Henchmen. Elite psychic space marines, backed up by human soldiers? A good excuse to dust off your Prospero Spireguard models, I'd say!
Ilmarinen - February 23, 2011 11:17 AM (GMT)
Sounds very promising to me. As long as it's done well and in a fluff-adherent way, this could be a great way to show PH Thousand Sons.
It would certainly be an interesting fight between them and Space Wolves - talk about tough!
The Dreadknight might also be a good unit for psyker-controlled Legion Cybernetica.
I can't (yet) see the new GK codex being particularly useful for other PH Legions though. Unless the rules are good for proxying young Primarchs? (Deathknight or Grand Master).
The only other possibility that springs to mind might be Alpha Legion. If the GK rules have some defensive or 'sneaky' applications for squads, then they could 'count as' stealthy or ambushy tactics? The henchmen are then operatives (although more mainstream codexes with scouts are probably still a better representation IMO).
The Sigillite - February 23, 2011 11:28 AM (GMT)
The new book is interesting (( I'm one of those lucky buggers that managed to get a copy of the elaked info ))... Im thinking of using the dreadknight either as a HH style dread... OR as a knight titan. Henchies will be a mechanicum force to justify having a knight titan. Finally im using Grey knights as Custodes.
THe other option is to make a PH 1k sons force, but i already have one using the regular SM book.
Whitehorn - February 23, 2011 11:42 AM (GMT)
|The Dreadknight might also be a good unit for psyker-controlled Legion Cybernetica.|
Nice idea, though I prefer the concept of a squad of weaker Dreads, like Sentinels.
I wasn't planning on doing a TS army, but would like to run some one-off models/squads for tutorials and articles. This is likely to include a Knight using the Dreadknight rules, and a selection of TS marines using the GK rules.
Ilmarinen - February 23, 2011 11:55 AM (GMT)
*smacks forehead* CUSTODES, of course! :D
Whitehorn - February 23, 2011 12:01 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Ilmarinen @ Feb 23 2011, 11:55 AM)|
| CUSTODES |
Aren't they devoid of psychic powers though? One bad example of using GK IMO.
The Lieutenant - February 23, 2011 07:23 PM (GMT)
There's nothing(to my knowledge, anyway) that says Custodes DON'T have psychic powers. I mean, maybe its not common, or whatever, but there's no specific fluff that says they don't use them.
Pacific - February 24, 2011 01:13 AM (GMT)
Yes, that's true - but the problem is the scale of the psychic powers used. If we are going to have every squad of tom dick and harry firing off powers every turn (as looks to be possible) then that wouldn't be exactly characterful either. The Custodes have featured a couple of times now and we haven't seen any use of powers (although I agree with your point in principle that they might well have had some abilities).
I suppose the only other way would be to give a mundane explanation (in the form of a skill) which matched the result of the psychic ability as a kind of 'counts as'. For the one that lets them shoot regardless of LoS, I don't perhaps Judge Dredd's 'heatseeker' rounds in their boltguns? :)
Also I don't know how you would explain a failed 'terror from the warp' test in that case!
King Fluff - February 24, 2011 01:28 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Pacific @ Feb 24 2011, 01:13 AM)|
| Also I don't know how you would explain a failed 'terror from the warp' test in that case! |
stepped in squig poo :P
Whitehorn - February 24, 2011 09:21 AM (GMT)
I prefer to roll with the abilities and embrace them. Psychic squads scream Thousand Sons. Renaming them (abilities) just to let you field something that really doesn't fit (ie Custodes) is pushing it a bit. This is half the problem with fielding Blood Angels as anything other than World Eaters, the red fury just doesn't fit with other legions and is poorly shrugged off with 'they got angry'.
Custodes are a toughie as they should be represented by rules greater than normal Astartes. Yes, Grey Knights are better, but in the wrong area. Honour guard are perhaps closest - something worthy of an article perhaps.
The Lieutenant - February 24, 2011 03:24 PM (GMT)
Yeah, I know my flatmate is meaning to do a Tzeentch army with the new Grey Knight rules.
Cause he loves Tzeentch, but the current chaos codex rules for them are, ahem, somewhat lacking. In both fun-ness and goodness.
I think the new Grey Knights will definitely work as proxies for Tzeentch.
Honour Guard would work as Custodes...maybe, but they are truely terrible in game, which is a shame.
Whitehorn - March 9, 2011 11:21 AM (GMT)
Now that we have seen the models, a follow up regarding the imagery:http://www.mywargame.com/2011/03/09/grey-k...on-chapter-666/
Pacific - March 25, 2011 10:27 PM (GMT)
Totally agree with your comments on your blog, nice post.
Definitely some good bits in with the GK for Thousand Sons or maybe Word Bearers, with terminator helms for all (although good luck trying to get those from the bits websites, it will be like the old World-Eater Berserker mk3 hunt all over again, with about 20 people all waiting for the stock updates on a friday and then trying to buy before anyone else :D )
Armorum Ferrum - March 26, 2011 08:28 AM (GMT)
Nice blog Whitehorn, really informative !
Doghouse - April 19, 2011 04:31 PM (GMT)
I've been looking over the codex over the last few days and have to say that it's the Inquisition aspect of the army lists that appeals to me the most when considering pre-heresy armies.
Given the diverse nature of the Imperial Army the retinues section of the book is a gold mine for making human armies.
By taking corteaz as a leader you can take them as troops choices, slap in some land raiders and you are good to go.
You have options for power armoured humans, carapace armoured troops and on top of this have access to weapons such as bolters and hotshot lasguns.
Then you have the rather obvious GK as TS counts as, but by keeping them to a minimum in the force you could explain away them having storm bolters as them being veteran troops.
It'd be great for other forces like the ad-mech as well. Whilst the obvious choice is to turn the dreadknight into a Knight it also serves as a means of making ad mech monsterous robots as well.
Plus you also have the option of just fielding them as a Scouring era force of great knights like I'm currently doing and the proto-inquisition.
Having played around with the power armoured kits a bit now I think that the legs would be good for wordbearers and if you replace the rear half of the torso with a regular marine back you get a fairly decent mk III ish looking marine.
The weapons arms are great for custodes as well.