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Title: Joining the Crusade - 1st Pre-Heresy


SirAndrewD - October 4, 2010 06:44 PM (GMT)
Hello everyone!

I've been lurking on the Great Crusade for a long time since I'm pretty much in love with everything pre-Heresy. I've been in this hobby as a collector since '97 and an Ultramarine player since my first test game of Rogue Trader in the back room of a bookstore in '93. I get a lot of hassle from people for being one of the boys in blue, so I work hard to keep my army as personalized and unique as I can. For that reason I took the plunge in my attempts to convert as much of my army as possible from the M.41 Ultramarines chapter to the XIII Legion. Sadly my green skills leave lots to be desired, so most of my conversion work has been using Forge World or RT era bits.

So, enough about me. Here's some of the stuff I've been experimenting with for my first foray into the pre-Heresy arena. First up is an experimental tactical squad I did last year. This wasn't purely pre-Heresy as I was working with a mix of bits, mostly Red Scorpion Mk.4 bits and 2nd Edition bolters.

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As I say, I did these guys a while ago and I consider them a bit rough. I've started work blending the shading a bit more and cleaning up the markings, but I was pretty happy with them as an experiment. When the new Forge World armor marks came out I immediately spent way too much money on them and I finished my first test mini for them last night.

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I'm pretty happy with this little guy so far, He's got 24 buddies waiting to join him with plenty of Phobos and Umbra pattern bolters to go around. I know not many people choose Ultras to do for their pre-Heresy stuff, but hopefully my addition to M.31 is worthy of the legacy of Legio XIII.

BigWill - October 4, 2010 06:55 PM (GMT)
Those look positively yummy.
I love the paler blue go with that rather than your Mk3 test shade.
That being said I would try to get my highlight blended a little more.
Maybe another transition layer of a mix between the dark and lighter blue
with a thin waterery wash of the same mix to blend all the layers.
But aside from Apologist's true scale monsters,these are the best PH Ultras I have seen yet.
Keep em coming ;)

Michaelangelos - October 4, 2010 07:04 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (SirAndrewD @ Oct 4 2010, 06:44 PM)

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I'm pretty happy with this little guy so far, He's got 24 buddies waiting to join him with plenty of Phobos and Umbra pattern bolters to go around.  I know not many people choose Ultras to do for their pre-Heresy stuff, but hopefully my addition to M.31 is worthy of the legacy of Legio XIII.



how did you do the colour scheme on right?

it looks good keep it up :D

SirAndrewD - October 4, 2010 08:20 PM (GMT)
@BigWill

Wow, thank you, that's high praise indeed. Apologist's stuff is the standard by which pre-Heresy Ultras are judged, his work was a major inspiration. I sadly lack the green and freehand skills to match what he does, but I'm giving it my best shot.

You're completely right about the blending on the hybrid pre-Heresy Ultras. I've actually cleaned a couple of them up using similar techniques to what you suggested and they do look better. It did darken them up a little, but it's not too bad. I'm an old school Ultra guy so the lighter blues are my thing.

@Michaelangelos

Thanks you! That guy is mostly done in standard watered down GW Ultramarine blue on black primer. Highlights were done with Reaper sky blue mixed about 2:1 with Ultramarine blue cut with a touch of water. Edge highlights were just sky blue with a bit of white added on the edges. I was a bit more subtle with the highlighting on the Mk.3 than on the previous models, hence the darker look in the photo. In person they're actually not far off from each other in shade.

And now for something completely different....

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Brother-Sergeant Ziegler - October 4, 2010 09:03 PM (GMT)
Very nice work. I really like the light blue as well. I'm interested to see how you decide to paint your FW models.

BigWill - October 4, 2010 10:04 PM (GMT)
For yet another take on gore try a little bit of modeling sand,pva,blood red,and a dot of black.
Use sparingly.
By the way is that Brass-etch Ultra symbol on the mk3 because if not that is a great sculpt.

SirAndrewD - October 4, 2010 10:17 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (BigWill @ Oct 4 2010, 10:04 PM)
For yet another take on gore try a little bit of modeling sand,pva,blood red,and a dot of black.
Use sparingly.
By the way is that Brass-etch Ultra symbol on the mk3 because if not that is a great sculpt.

I'll have to try that. The World Eater was done on a bit of a lark, I had some extra Mk.4 bits and I honestly just wanted to see if I could do it. If I had unlimited money and my wife would let me I'd probably make a Khorne Chaos army and paint it totally in loyalist World Eater colors, but that's for another time and another income bracket.

And yes, the ultra symbol on the chest is a brass etch. I wish I could sculpt to that level, but sadly I'm just not in that ballpark with the greenstuff. I had a friend who had won two Golden Demons at GD Atlanta a few years back show me some great tricks, but I still haven't caught on.

Apologist - October 4, 2010 11:36 PM (GMT)
Loving the squad markings and litanies, SirAndrewD, and that latest Mk IIi marine is brill - just the right balance of gold and blue for my tastes.
The finished squad is looking great, so I'll be keeping an eye out for more! :)

ShroudFilm - October 4, 2010 11:38 PM (GMT)
These models are fantastic, you are too modest! :)

That first "test" squad is excellent. I'd be happy to show that as an example of pre-Heresy Space Marines.

Pacific - October 5, 2010 12:54 AM (GMT)
Great stuff!

The UM are probably one of the most under-represented legions, so its great to see someone else give them a crack!

Looking really promising so far, it looks like you have got a nice and rich blue on the mk3 guy. I'm guessing for the other guys that the photo needs to be run through a filter on photoshop and they are a similar shade of blue?

I like the little inscriptions on the armour, which sets them apart nicely as the UM.

Magos Explorator - October 5, 2010 01:55 AM (GMT)
Welcome to the boards; nice models, we look forward to more!

SirAndrewD - October 5, 2010 03:56 AM (GMT)
Wow, thanks for the comments guys. You've really spurred me on to getting more of these guys out the door.

@Apologist

That means a lot coming from you. Your pre-Heresy Ultras have been a real inspiration to getting me to put these on the table. Like yours, I'm trying to give each Marine a little bit of personal flair. I think that's one of the things that makes Marines the most fun, and it's a good change of pace after finishing painting about 6,000 points of Imperial Guard.

@ShroudFilm

Thank you! The first guys were only really a "test" as pre-Heresy, but they were pretty much the best Marines in my army when I did them. A lot of techniques I used on them I'm trying to perfect on these new Forge World models. I've been painting minis now since the 80's and I'm always trying to get better.

@Pacific

The anti-Ultramarine bias rears its head in pre-Heresy as much as everywhere else. Probably actually moreso since pre-Heresy modelers are rarely entry level. The poor Ultras didn't see a lot of action in the Heresy save at Calth, and that little tidbit of fluff is a pretty recent addition anyway. Part of the fun of pre-Heresy is seeing a lot of the traitors before they were naughty, but I think the loyalists need love too. Personalization is also a big deal for me, and always has been with my UM's. On the rare occasion that I actually get to play this game new people I meet usually groan when they hear I have Ultras, so I feel I've got to to a bit of an extra mile to make my army unique.
Yes, the guys on top were brightened up pretty heavily by a photoshop filter and lighting issues. They were also not highlighted as smoothly as that was one of my first tries at blending as opposed to drybrushing. The Mk.3 marine is actually a bit brighter than in the picture, but not by a lot. The older squad is lighter than the new Mk.3 just not to the extent the pictures show. My wife's nudging me to stop spending money on toy soldiers and get her a DSLR for Christmas, so maybe I'll get some better photographic equipment sooner rather than later.

Calgar 2.0 - October 5, 2010 08:00 PM (GMT)
Woohoo, another Ultramarines player! I like the color schemme you got for them, it looks good. Have you considered painting them Rogue Trader style with the company colors on their arms, that would work very well for these models.

Lunasteve - October 5, 2010 09:26 PM (GMT)
The models look spot on mate! And im liking the new mk3! Get your missus the camra but dont stop painting dude:) ever heard of keepybacks!

Steve

SirAndrewD - October 5, 2010 09:50 PM (GMT)
@Calgar 2.0

Courage and Honour! Always nice to see other real UM players. I honesty didn't know a ton about Ultras or the fluff in general when I started playing but once I got into the 40k background I knew I'd made the right choice for my personality. That said, I do consider myself a Guard player first and a Marine player second. I just couldn't get into Guard until I was out of college and had the time/income to actually invest into the colossal army that IG demands. I've also at various points owned Tau and Tyranid armies, but I quickly tired of the taint of the xeno and sold them for profit.

I absolutely intend to use some RT style schemes on my Mk.5 Marines. I've already done so on my plastic Mk.6's and I have some old RT era metal Mk.6's hanging around that I'm going to paint in the same style.

@Lunasteve

Thank you! I exaggerate about my wife wanting me to put aside the hobby for the camera. She's actually very supportive of my Warhammer addiction, even going so far as to keep asking me when I'm going to buy her an Eldar army. Maybe Santa can help me do both this year.

Apologist - October 6, 2010 10:22 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
That said, I do consider myself a Guard player first and a Marine player second. I just couldn't get into Guard until I was out of college and had the time/income to actually invest into the colossal army that IG demands. I've also at various points owned Tau and Tyranid armies, but I quickly tired of the taint of the xeno and sold them for profit.

Heh; that's exactly what happened to me. P'raps it's an Ultramarine player thing there's something nice about being the baseline!

SirAndrewD - October 18, 2010 09:51 PM (GMT)
Ok everyone, it's been a while so here's an update on my progress on my pre-heresy project. I haven't had as much time as I've liked to work on my stuff over the last couple of weeks but I finally managed to churn out one of each of the new armor marks. These will be the baseline I use to complete the rest of the project..

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And all four of the completed Forge World models together..

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I just finished the Mk.5 and there's a bit of touch up left to do but I'm pretty happy with how they all turned out.

Twenty-one more of the new models to go! These guys are actually pretty addictive when you compare them to the GW Plastics. I'm seriously considering selling off a large portion of my painted Ultramarine battle company to finance getting more of these figures. Having an entire army in this style is pretty much what I'd like to end up with.

Pacific - October 19, 2010 02:12 AM (GMT)
Wow, looking really good!

Lovely shade of blue you've achieved (ultramarine in fact!) and neat paint job. I think a large group of these guys together should look excellent. Are you planning on mixing the armour marks within squads or keeping them separate ?

SirAndrewD - October 19, 2010 03:50 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Pacific @ Oct 19 2010, 02:12 AM)
Wow, looking really good!

Lovely shade of blue you've achieved (ultramarine in fact!) and neat paint job. I think a large group of these guys together should look excellent. Are you planning on mixing the armour marks within squads or keeping them separate ?

Thanks! They're coming along nicely, I just need some spare time to sit down and really dig into them. I'm really happy with the color, enough so that I'm keeping myself from experimenting too much. It took me a while to get to just the right mix of ultramarine blue so I need to keep myself from wanting to futz with it too much. I'm also being careful with applying washes on these guys since I don't want to darken them too much.

I do plan on doing a little bit of mix and matching, but very little, I imagine at the time of the Heresy there was a bit more availability of fresh armor and hence less need to salvage parts from one suit to another. My main sticking point right now is on how I plan to do my Sergeants. I've got some old Rogue Trader era plastic power fists and bolt pistols so I think at least one will have to be equipped with that loadout. I haven't fully decided if I want to do the same setup on both.

Angels_Blade - October 19, 2010 07:12 AM (GMT)
Welcome Papa Smurf, Always good to see new stuff on here. Really nice Blues you've got going on there. Every time I see some of those FW sculpts I get more and more dissappointed that my army is all robed!

Cheers AB

Brother-Sergeant Ziegler - October 19, 2010 01:40 PM (GMT)
I really like your Ultras. The paint job is nice and clean but with subtle detail. I like that Ultra symbol on the Mk. III too.

SirAndrewD - January 19, 2011 11:18 PM (GMT)
Wow, it's been a while since I've been able to sit down and work on my pre-heresy project. Life always gets to intervening, but fortunately being snowed in last week let me actually get to work on a few models. Here's what I've turned out.

First up is my new commander model. He's an homage to the old 2nd Edition Ultramarine Capitan model, converted from a mix of pewter and plastic along with the FW resin.

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Next is a selection of the figures I've been working on this week. The Chaplain is not finished, but I wanted to get a picture of him in the lineup nonetheless. Clearly I'm using the old Cassius model as the base, which works perfectly since he was in Mk 3. It took a while to get the head/tyranid parts off the model, and I'm still not finished either masking or cleaning up the places where I had to use the dremmel the most. I also am considering getting the skull motif off the chest plate since that sort of smacks of post Golden Throne internment.

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Finally a shot of everything pre-Heresy I've completed thus far. I'm way behind where I want to be and hopefully time will allow me to catch up and start getting closer to completion.

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Brother-Sergeant Ziegler - January 21, 2011 06:35 AM (GMT)
Looks like they're coming along nicely. :)

Do you do a lot of conversions after you've already painted the models? I hate attempting to change something once it has been painted.

Apologist - January 21, 2011 09:49 AM (GMT)
Absolutely beautiful! :)
I really like the homage to the classic Captain, and the Chaplain conversion's lovely, too. I agree with the idea of removing the skull on his breastplate. Perhaps a little wreath in the inverted Omega symbol instead?

ShroudFilm - January 21, 2011 12:00 PM (GMT)
Fantastic - I have fond memories of that old captain model!

SirAndrewD - January 22, 2011 05:45 AM (GMT)
Thanks for the comments guys. I'm going to try starting some heavy weapons this weekend and I'm planning out future expansions.

As to converting the Chaplain after I painted him, I don't actually convert after I paint often, but I keep finding things I want to do to that model even after I had put some work into him. After really tearing him up with the dremmel I wasn't sure how he'd look once I put paint to pewter, and I found I missed one or two things on him once it was done. Most of the conversion left to do be done on him is going to be masking with things like purity seals and oaths of moment, but I am seriously considering taking off the skull.

I'm also starting to lean toward adding some iconography for the specific chapter I'm going to represent. Since Orar is a pretty famous Ultramarine from the immediate post heresy era, I'm thinking of adding some red and white heraldry to some of the Marines to represent his chapter. I'm also getting together some bits for a Sicarius conversion that will be a "counts as" for Orar.

Now if I could just find some old style Rhinos. I'm starting to seriously regret trading my old ones away.

Lunasteve - January 22, 2011 08:37 AM (GMT)
great job on the ultras mate! love the armour and i like that youve mixed armour types in squads. ( cause ive done the same :))

steve

Battle_Captain - February 7, 2011 06:06 AM (GMT)
Awesome work man.

SirAndrewD - February 16, 2011 09:40 PM (GMT)
Thanks for the comments again guys. I've had time to work on some new models and will post them as soon as I've got my Sergeants finished, which should be some time early next week. I'm also doing some minor conversions on my Masters of the Chapter models and the Games Day promo Sergeant in Mk 3. I sadly won't have enough backpacks for them all so that they match the rest of my new Marines, but everything can't be perfect.

My near term goals are to add a special character, most likely a Sicarius model modified into a counts as Captain Orar. I also want to start to try to dig up some Classic OOP Rhinos but I'm not quite sure where to begin on that. I'm deeply regretting trading my old style Rhinos away in '04.

Wolf Lord Asmunder - February 21, 2011 03:13 PM (GMT)
Try here: Rhino doors

I haven't ordered any of these yet, but I did order some similar doors, which were pretty good. I don't know if they order quickly, as is the current state they are in, but I do know they plan to ship orders out normally.

Ilmarinen - February 21, 2011 06:56 PM (GMT)
Fantastic Ultras! I'm also loving the homagerie (is that a word?).


Definitely do NOT get the Chapterhouse PH rhino kit - I've seen it in person and it's AWFUL!!! The resin is poor quality and the surface of the doors are DIMPLED! Yes, they're THAT bad!

Ein_Windir - February 22, 2011 01:56 PM (GMT)
But you can look at using Ilmarinen's rhino kit (if he still has any) or I do have a template I got from chap at another website. Also looking at the pictures of the casts they really don't look that well done in my opinion.

I have never been a fan of the Ultramarines, but these are pure sexiness. Keep up the good work and I can't wait for more!

Cheers

MouldytheMoulder - February 22, 2011 07:35 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (SirAndrewD @ Oct 18 2010, 09:51 PM)
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That Heresy armour marine looks scarily similar to my Night Lords-curse you and your Gold studs! :lol:

Seriously though, great stuff-I've always secretly loved the Ultramarines and you've really done them credit here. Any chance of a Guilliman? ;)

Wolf Lord Asmunder - February 23, 2011 02:35 AM (GMT)
A gulliman would be delicous :P

SirAndrewD - February 24, 2011 04:10 AM (GMT)
@Ein_Windir & Ilmarinen Thanks for the info on the Chapterhouse models. I've not heard good things about their product and I'm hesitant to resort to third party sites as it is. I tend to like to stick to GW when at all possible, but I know as this project continues I'm going to have to explore a few other places. If I get third party material, it's probably going to be Maximini heads/jumpacks/termie pads. Right now I'm hunting GW OOP Rhinos on Ebay, and I hope I'll be able to secure one or two.

@MouldytheMoulder & Wolf Lord Asmunder Thank you for the comments guys. As much as I'd love to to a Gulliman as the centerpiece of my army, my green skills are sadly lacking for such an undertaking. If I could land a Ronin Miniatures Gulliman for a reasonable price, I'd paint one up, but I don't think I could do the model justice with my sculpting. I can do some good kitbashing but as a true conversion guy, I'm not the best there is.

And now, to keep the whole thread rolling, some new minis that were finished this week, actually on schedule for once.

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Wolf Lord Asmunder - February 24, 2011 09:03 PM (GMT)
The Kabuki Millenium Knight is a pretty good figure, though it comes in at 39.99 euros. I know you can get one off of ebay for 50 US dollars, here.

Edit: One thing you should know is that the head may be smaller than a normal marine's [closer to the size of Chronus's or the Masters of the Chapter] so be prepared for that. It is easily solvable, but you should be aware of it.

SirAndrewD - February 25, 2011 01:36 AM (GMT)
Thanks! That's a good model, not quite perfect but I could make something out of it. That's most assuredly something I'll consider.

SirAndrewD - October 17, 2012 02:39 AM (GMT)
Wow, has it really been over a year since my last post? The world turns, and time passes strangely in the warp. The good news is, that I've finally gotten back to my pre-heresy project. Here's some mad progress....

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That's the actual end of my first wave of Ultras. I just got a new wave of 10 Assault Marines, with some kitbashing on their jump packs, and 20 Heavy Weapons Marines. I also have pre-orders out for Cataphracts. Mainly I've been painting my wife's Grey Knights/Sisters of Battle, but hopefully with all these new Horus Heresy releases coming out from Forgeworld, my Heresy project will finally reach completion. Let's see where the Emperor's will takes me..

Brother V - October 17, 2012 06:28 AM (GMT)
Lookin crisp! good to see some smurfs in the heresy era world every once in a while.

SirAndrewD - October 17, 2012 08:01 PM (GMT)
Just a few more to show off what I've been working on to finish up this army.

Currently, I've got one last tactical squad in progress, with assault marines and 8 heavy weapon marines on the table. As soon as the Cataphracts release, I'll be adding those too.

First assault marine came out well, the squad's primarily made up of Mk4 with some Mk2 mixed in.

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A few of the WIP assault marines here..obviously a bit of kitbashing has been done. I really didn't like the Mk4 Forge World backpacks.

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Finally an example of some of the Marines that will make up the last tactical squad.

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I'm excited to finally get this project finished, especially with the new Horus Heresy book and Primarchs coming out. I know my work isn't as great as some of the others her, but you all give me the inspiration to keep going with your magnificent work!




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