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Title: TGC: Pre-Heresy Events Ruleset
Description: Work-in-progress, playtesters required!


ShroudFilm - October 4, 2010 01:08 PM (GMT)
Hey all -

We're currently working on a new TGC ruleset which will become the (optional) basis of all our future events, in the hope of accurately reflecting the PH and HH eras for tabletop gaming.

At the moment we are hoping to encourage fluff-accurate armies over game-winning power, and offer rewards and incentives to those players who want to go the extra mile with their own armies. There will also be an "era system" similar to the Star Wars canon, where certain things are only available at certain times, as per the fluff... more to follow on that later.

For now, all new material will be highlighted in yellow. If it is currently not in use, it will change to red. Once it is approved/game-worthy for playtesting, it will be changed to green.

==========

First up is the TGC Era System. We want to be able to engineer rules and units to be appropriate to certain eras where possible, to avoid clashes and historical contradictions. These rules will also be optional, so don't worry too much if you don't like them!

All games, settings, campaigns and rules will be organised under a very simple timeline. Each era marks a major point in the pre-Heresy/Heresy/post-Heresy setting, and will help avoid abuse of the rules we are introducing (or at least make abuse fluffy!) :D

The six eras are:

The Unification Wars
The Emperor wages his war to bring Terra under one banner. Proto-Astartes are used to found Imperial Army regiments which will later become the twenty legions, but in spite of their ambition mankind is still confined to the Sol system.
During this period, all battles are assumed to be fought either on Terra itself, or on one of the other planets/moons within the same system. There are only three legal choices of army list for this era: Imperial Army, Mechanicum, and Enemies of Unity.

The Great Crusade
The Imperium begins a 200-year expansion to reunite the lost fragments of human civilisation across the galaxy and purge the xenos who have encroached upon it. The primarchs are slowly rediscovered and returned to their growing legions. The Emperor finally leaves the Great Crusade and names Horus Lupercal as his Warmaster.
The longest era, and by far the most diverse. New units and upgrades become available, and the following army lists become playable: Crusading Legions, Imperial Army, Mechanicum, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Enemies of Unity, and Xenos Races.

The Horus Heresy: Rise of the Warmaster
Horus begins to doubt his place in the Emperor's plans, and his ambitions begin to outweigh his loyalty - he secretly persuades fully half of the legions to rebel with him, and strikes the first blow at Istvaan III. It is not until many months later that the loyalist fugitives aboard the Eisenstein warn Terra of his ambitions that the extent of Horus' treachery is fully understood.
After the ruling of the Council of Nikaea, Librarians and sorcery are forbidden within the legions. While battles still rage against the xenos and non-Imperial humans across the galaxy at first, this is the first era where Astartes (and Primarchs!) face one another in open warfare. Legal army lists are: Crusading Legions, Warmaster's Allies, The Betrayed, Calibanites, Imperial Army, Imperial Renegades, Mechanicum, Dark Mechanicum, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Enemies of Unity, and Xenos Races.

The Horus Heresy: Age of Darkness
In seven long years of bitter warfare, Horus and his traitor legions engage Imperial forces. Brother Astartes fight one another openly for the first time in the history of the Imperium, pushing on towards Terra and their ultimate goal - the death of the Emperor of Mankind.
At this point, although the wars with non-Imperial humans and xenos continue, the focus is placed on the horrific civil war which threatens to destroy the Imperium. Legal army lists are: Loyalist Legions, Traitor Legions, The Betrayed, Calibanites, Imperial Army, Imperial Renegades, Mechanicum, Dark Mechanicum, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Enemies of Unity, and Xenos Races.

The Horus Heresy: Siege of Terra
The traitor legions arrive to find the Emperor well prepared for their invasion. In a legendary conflict which will define the beginning of the end for humanity, Terra is devastated by the traitors and the Imperial Palace laid to ruin. But in the final hours of the war, Horus' fate turns against him and both he and the Emperor are slain in a mortal duel. The Imperium reels from the loss of their ruler, and the traitors flee in anguish. Legal army lists are: Loyalist Legions, Traitor Legions, Imperial Army, Imperial Renegades, Mechanicum, Dark Mechanicum, and Enemies of Unity.

The Great Scouring
The remaining loyal primarchs are rallied by Roboute Guilliman of the Ultramarines and set about eradicating the traitor legions from the galaxy. In a reversal of their previous roles, the loyalists purge all trace of the heresy committed by Horus and his followers, destroying entire planetary systems in the process. The remaining traitor legions break into smaller warbands, each following the most charismatic or brutal leader among them, and eventually turn upon one another as they retreat back to the Eye of Terror. Legal army lists are: Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Mechanicum, Dark Mechanicum, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Orks.


==========

We're going to start adding upgrades to the standard Codex: Space Marines for basic PH armies, and all changes will be noted here. More to follow, of course!

- Named characters may not be taken from the basic codex list.

- Razorbacks may not be taken.

- Any Space Marine squad from Troops, Fast Attack or Heavy Support choices which may increase its size up to 10 models in the codex may now increase up to 20 models at the same basic cost per model. Any options available at ten models may be taken for a second time at twenty, at the normal cost.

- Any Space Marine model armed with a Missile Launcher may exchange it for an Autocannon at no additional cost. For cosmetic purposes, this may be considered a "rotary-barrelled Autocannon".

- Assault Cannons are limited to ONE per army. Any other Assault Cannon MUST be exchanged for a Twin-linked Autocannon at no additional cost. For cosmetic purposes, this may be considered a "rotary-barrelled Autocannon".

- Any Space Marine unit armed with a Storm Bolter MUST exchange it for a Twin-linked Bolter, at no cost. HQ units and squad Sergeants may choose to ignore this rule, but where possible you must model the choice appropriately if there is any difference between miniatures.

- Hellfire Rounds may not be used by any unit. Vengeance Rounds are only available in The Great Scouring.


- Jump Packs are limited to ONE unit per army. Any other Jump Infantry must instead take Pre-Heresy Jump Packs at no additional cost (unit may choose to move 6" on foot, or jump 12" - if they do, scatter the entire unit d3" in a random direction afterwards). Independent characters with Jump Packs leading Jump Infantry are assumed to have the same type as the rest of the unit while doing so.

- Jump Infantry units may not make up more than 50% of the UNIT CHOICES in your army.

==========

Ok, here is our first new unit! The Thunder Warriors are here! :ph43r:

Proto-Astartes Battalion - 120pts
The so-called Thunder Regiments of the Imperial Army helped lay the foundations for genetic engineering and the creation of the Primarchs. It was argued that without them, Unity would never have been possible and the Emperor would have been just another upstart tyrant...

Imperial Army. ELITE UNIT. Unification Wars only.
Unit composition: 5 Proto-Astartes.

Proto-Astartes WS4 BS3 S4 T4 I4 W1 A1 Ld8 Save 4+

Thunder Armour, Bolter, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades

Relentless

Thunder Warriors: Any non-Fearless unit assaulted by or wishing to assault a Proto-Astartes unit must make a Leadership test before they move. If they fail, they may not assault and their Weapon Skill and Initiative characteristics are reduced to 1 until the start of the next player's turn.

Powered Grapple: Proto-Astartes may choose to use no weapon in close combat, and if they do so then they may re-roll to wound. When making a Sweeping Advance, they roll twice and may choose either roll.

- May take up to fifteen additional Proto-Astartes at 20pts each
- Up to 50% (rounding down) of the models in the unit may replace their CCW with a Power Weapon for +10pts each


And fresh from the playtest session, we now have some Iron Warriors goodness!

Siege Master
The Iron Warriors have long been renowned as masters of prolonged siege attacks, and Perturabo's favoured style of warfare employs specially trained sappers to bring down the enemy's defences before a major assault. Small units of Astartes under the guidance of a Siege Master can set demolition charges and lay low cities and fortresses alike.

Iron Warriors. TACTICAL SQUAD UPGRADE. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.
Replaces basic Tactical Squad Sergeant for +25pts, with no other squad upgrades possible.

Bolt Pistol, Servo Arm, Melta Bombs

Bolster Defences.

Expert Sappers: The Siege Master and his squad may assault any building or ruin to which they have line of sight, without being in base contact with the target. In Cities of Death scenarios they gain Combat Engineers, and the Iron Warriors army receives the Demolition stratagem for free in addition to their normal allowance as long as the Siege Master remains alive.

Careful Preparations: The Siege Master and his squad gain Infiltrate and Move Through Cover. They may never buy any dedicated transport.


And some more lovely Iron Warriors goodness - the Thunderstrike!

Thunderstrike Assault Battery - 55pts per gun
Based on the reliable Rhino STC, the Thunderstrike Assault Gun incorporates a heavy rotating quad-barrelled turret that is able to rain down punishing salvos of high explosive shells on enemy positions. Excellent infantry-shredding weapons, they are however somewhat fragile and extremely vulnerable to close-range attacks.

Iron Warriors. HEAVY SUPPORT UNIT. The Great Crusade, Horus Heresy and Great Scouring only.
Unit Composition: 1-3 Thunderstrike Assault Guns (Vehicle, Tank, Open-topped)

BS4 - Armour F11 S11 R10

Turret-mounted Thunderstrike Cannon - 72" S7 AP4 Heavy 4, Blast
Searchlight, Smoke Launchers

Indiscriminate Bombardment: A Thunderstrike Assault Gun may target an enemy unit that is engaged in close combat. Resolve hits against friendly units as well as enemy units.

Targeting Matrix: The Thunderstrike Cannon may not be fired if the vehicle moved at all in its turn, including turning on the spot. It may not fire in its next turn if the vehicle is rammed.

- May take Twin-linked Bolter +5pts
- May take Extra Armour +10pts


Next up we have Adeptus Custodes ready for playtest at the Ullanor event in November:

0-1 Adeptus Custodes Guardians - 230pts
The Adeptus Custodes are the Emperor's watchmen, honour guard and secret agents. On the battlefield they stand resplendent in the finest golden armour to mirror His own, and fight with a terrifying zeal and almost superhuman determination.

Imperial Army, Crusading Legions or Loyalist Legions only. ELITE UNIT. May be used in any era.
Unit composition: 1 Captain, 4 Custodes

Captain WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I5 A2 Ld10 Save 2+
Custodes WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld9 Save 2+

Artificer Armour, Guardian Spear, Frag and Krak Grenades
(Guardian Spear is a two-handed +1S Power Weapon AND a Master-crafted Bolter)

And They Shall Know No Fear, Relentless, Deep Strike

Higher Calling: Units of Adeptus Custodes may not be joined by non-Custodes independent characters, and are not affected by special rules generated by Imperial Army or Space Marine characters, legions or abilities.

Glorious Defenders: As long as they are wearing Artificer Armour and not mounted on Jetbikes, Adeptus Custodes Guardians gain Heroic Intervention as if they were using Jump Packs. This also applies to any independent character who joins the unit.

Personal Combat: Adeptus Custodes must be in base contact with the enemy in order to fight in an assault - they may not support other engaged models within 2".

- May take up to five additional Custodes at 40pts each
- The entire squad may exchange their Artificer Armour, Guardian Spear, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades for Terminator Armour with Relic Blade and twin-linked Bolter for free

- May exchange Relic Blade for: Lightning Claw for free, or Power Fist +5pts
- May exchange twin-linked Bolter for: Heavy Flamer +5pts, twin-linked Autocannon +10pts, Lightning Claw or Storm Shield +15pts

- If Terminator Armour is not chosen, the entire unit may be mounted on Jetbikes at +40pts per model.


Also, here's something which has been needed for a long time and should hopefully help to level the playing field a little in friendly games against non-Space Marine armies - the Young Primarch rules!

0-1 Young Primarch - 200pts
As the Great Crusade forged across the galaxy, they rediscovered the Primarchs - those genetically enhanced sons of the Emperor who had been feared lost for all time. Although mighty system warlords in their own rights, each of them was young and naive in the ways of the Imperium and took many decades to mature into the legendary leaders of the Legiones Astartes that they would become.

Crusading Legions only. HQ UNIT. The Great Crusade only.
Unit composition: 1 Young Primarch

Young Primarch WS7 BS6 S5 T5 W3 I6 A3 Ld10 Save 2+

Primarch Armour, Close Combat Weapon, Bolt Pistol, Digital Weapons, Frag and Krak Grenades, Iron Halo

Eternal Warrior, And They Shall Know No Fear, Rites of Battle, Fleet, Deep Strike, Orbital Bombardment

Finery of the Legion: All weapons carried by a Young Primarch count as Master-crafted.

The Inner Circle: Although mighty warriors and great leaders, the Young Primarchs are often shadowed by their legion's captains in combat, forming an advisory council on the battlefield. The Young Primarch may be accompanied by up to four Space Marine Captains chosen as normal from the Codex army list, at their normal points cost. These Captains and the Young Primarch no longer count as independent characters but rather as a single unit, and counting as a single HQ choice. Only if all the Captains are removed as casualties will the Young Primarch revert to being an independent character.

- May buy ONE of the following for +25pts: Furious Charge, Stealth, Infiltrate, Fearless

- May replace Bolt Pistol and/or CCW with: Bolter for free; Combi-Bolter +5pts; Power Weapon, Combi-Flamer, -Plasma, or -Melta +10pts; Storm Shield, Chainfist, Lightning Claw or Plasma Pistol +15pts; Power Fist +25pts; Relic Blade or Thunder Hammer +30pts
- May take Auxiliary Grenade Launcher for +15pts
- May take Melta Bombs +5pts
- May take Wings/Jump Pack +25pts

- May be mounted on Bike for +35pts or Jetbike +40pts (any accompanying Captains must also choose the same mount)
- If not mounted, may buy any of the following as a dedicated transport: Rhino, Drop Pod, or Land Raider


Here's the first entry from the Enemies of Unity army list - in a tribute to Rogue Trader, the rather tasteless Suicide Attack bombers!

0-1 Suicide Attack Cell - 60pts
With the forces of the Emperor advancing in all directions and conquering in His name, one by one the other regimes are toppled and replaced by the secular Imperial Truth. Morale runs low among the survivors, and ever more desperate acts of defiance are perpetrated against Imperial forces...

Enemies of Unity only. FAST ATTACK UNIT. May be used in any era.
Unit composition: D3+3 Martyrs, deployed as separate and independent units on the tabletop

Martyr WS3 BS0 S3 T3 W1 I3 A1 Ld7 Save 5+

Flak Armour, Close Combat Weapon, Suicide Vest, Frag Grenades

Fleet, Infiltrate, Fearless, Rage, Feel No Pain

Suicide Vest: A Martyr may choose to activate his Suicide Vest during the shooting phase, or during an assault before Initiative is declared. Make an attack at S8 AP6 with the Large Blast template centred over the Martyr. Remove the Martyr immediately after resolving the attack - he counts as having been subject to Instant Death for game purposes.

Desperate Atrocity: Suicide attacks are abhorrent and demoralising. Any unit suffering casualties from a Martyr's Suicide Vest must take an immediate Morale check.

Dead Man's Switch: If a Martyr is removed as a casualty for any reason, his Suicide Vest detonates as above. However, casualties caused by this effect do not count towards Desperate Atrocity.


And here is everyone's favourite insidious b*****d, Erebus! :D

Erebus, Trusted Advisor - 120pts
The Word Bearers kept a close eye on the rise of Warmaster Horus as the Great Crusade continued, and also dispatched representatives to aid the other legion commanders. Erebus was assigned to the 63rd Expeditionary Fleet, and kept a close watch over proceedings from within...

Imperial Army or Crusading Legions only. HQ UNIT. The Great Crusade only.

Erebus WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A2 Ld10 Save 3+

Power Armour, Crozius Arcanum, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Rosarius

Eternal Warrior, Honour of the Chapter, Liturgies of Battle

Envoy of Lorgar: Erebus does not count towards your HQ allowance on the Force Organisation Chart, if you have no other Word Bearers units in the army.

The Grand Scheme: While Erebus is on the battlefield, all HQ units in your army gain Feel No Pain, and Kill Points are not awarded for the elimination of HQ units from your army. If all other HQ units are eliminated from the game, remove Erebus from play and award TWO Kill Points to your opponent.


HeroOfIstvaan throws some Imperial Fists ideas into the ring, with the awesome Garrison Sergeant!

0-1 Garrison Sergeant
The Imperial Fists have always excelled in the construction of fortresses, and take the duties of defence very seriously. Garrisons led by Imperial Fists officers are renowned as the best in the Imperium, and the legion will reinforce their positions with pre-fabricated strongpoints as a matter of course.

Imperial Fists. TACTICAL SQUAD UPGRADE. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.
Upgrade basic Tactical Squad Sergeant for +30pts. All regular upgrades still apply.

Defence Leader: The Garrison Sergeant's squad may reroll cover saves. They may not take a dedicated transport.

- May take a Servo-arm and gain Bolster Defences for +20pts
- May buy a Bastion with 4 automated (BS2) Heavy Bolters for 150pts. This must be deployed in your setup area as a normal unit, and the Garrison Sergeant's squad must be deployed inside. This Bastion counts as an additional game objective, unless destroyed/ruined.


And those lovely lads in gold - Dorn's Huscarls!

0-1 Dorn's Huscarl Retinue - 130pts
The legendary bodyguards of Rogal Dorn, the Huscarls are warriors without equal and stand shoulder to shoulder with the Emperor's own Custodians. They will surround their master like a wall of golden fury, or strike out at the legion's foes at his command.

Imperial Fists. ELITE UNIT. The Great Crusade, Horus Heresy, and Great Scouring only.
Unit composition: 1 Huscarl Templar Sergeant and 2 Huscarl Templars

Sergeant WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W2 I4 A3 Ld9 2+
Templar WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld8 2+

Artificer Armour, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades
Sergeant has a Relic Blade, Templars have a Power Weapon

- May add up to seven additional Templars at +35pts each
- The Sergeant may replace his Relic Blade with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield for +10pts
- The Sergeant may take Digital Weapons for +10pts
- Any model may carry the Legion Standard for +25pts
- Any model may exchange their Artificer Armour, Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades for Terminator Armour and a Combi-bolter for +15pts
- Any Terminator may take a Relic Blade for +10pts
- Any Terminator may take a Storm Shield for +15pts


And someone to lead them!

Archamus - 220pts
As a personal friend and confidant of his primarch, Archamus offers a cool and logical approach to his inner turmoils. Conversely, as the leader of the Huscarl retinue he is a fearless and loyal warrior on the battlefield, and the foremost among Dorn's Imperial Fists.

Imperial Fists. HQ UNIT. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.

Archamus WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A4 Ld10 Save 2+

Artificer Armour, Relic Blade, Dorn's Arrow, Frag and Krak Grenades, Iron Halo

Master of the Huscarls: A Huscarl unit led by Archamus gain Fearless and Counter Attack, and when leading a squad he also gains those abilities. Archamus removes the 0-1 limit on Huscarls, and they may be bought as Troops choices.

- May replace Relic Blade with a Master-crafted Power Fist
- May replace Artificer Armour, Frag and Krak Grenades with Terminator Armour


And Mr Hot-head... Sigismund!

Sigismund, First Captain - 175pts
An aggressively conservative officer, Sigismund values prestige and honour in those around him. As the First Captain of the Imperial Fists he holds a position of unrivalled power and yet still seems to hunger for something greater... but whether this is pure ambition or unfulfilled loyalty remains to be seen.

Imperial Fists. HQ UNIT. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.

Sigismund WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Save 3+

Power Armour, Power Weapon, Combi-plasma, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Iron Halo

Fearless, Counter Attack

Veteran Company: Sternguard and Terminator squads count as scoring units while Sigismund is on the battlefield. He grants his Fearless and Counter Attack to any unit he leads.

- May replace Relic Blade with a Master-crafted Power Fist
- May replace Artificer Armour, Frag and Krak Grenades with Terminator Armour


The first of many contributions from Whitehorn next, the Termite as a dedicated transport!

Mechanicum Termite
Once the Mechanicum of Mars signed their accord with the Imperium, new and more effective technologies began to filter through to the Imperial Army regiments and Astartes legions almost immediately. Among the first of the vehicles rolled out to the vanguard forces were the tunnelling Termites, which saw far more use before the widespread deployment of Drop Pods.

Imperial Army and Crusading Legions. TRANSPORT UPGRADE. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.
Replace any dedicated transport option for +40pts. Your army may not contain Drop Pods if you have any Termites. During the Horus Heresy, limit of 0-2 per army.

BS3 - Armour F13 S11 R-
Transport 12 infantry models (may not transport walkers or artillery)

Cutting Array (counts as a fixed-forward Meltagun)

Drop Pod Assault, Immobile

From Below: the Termite's rear section always remains below ground. Resolve any hits against side armour instead.

You're Screwed: no unit may assault or ram the front armour of a Termite.

Withdraw: when rolling for Reserves, roll for deployed Termites as well. If the roll is successful, the Termite may choose to leave the game - if it does so, do not award a Kill Point to the enemy.


After some discussion with Titus Pullo, we realised that the Emperor's Children aren't all about special characters and whacky units... but rather achieving perfection in their own field. Therefore, we have the first of their non-unique upgrades - combat masters!

0-2 Master Marksman
The martial prowess of the Emperor's Children has never been disputed, but even among legionnaires seeking perfection of their own abilities there are those who stand out and serve as an example to their peers. The Master Marksman stands by his fellows, and leads by example in all ranged combat.

Emperor's Children. STERNGUARD, TACTICAL OR DEVASTATOR SQUAD UPGRADE. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.
Any one member of a squad may be upgraded to Master Marksman for +40pts.

The Master Marksman gains +1BS to his basic profile.

Fire Support: The Master Marksman's squad may divide its shooting attacks among multiple targets. Resolve all attacks against the first choice of target before nominating the next target - you may choose the same target again.

Cover Me: The Master Marksman may leave his squad. He becomes an independent character for the rest of the game (and is therefore worth a Kill Point) but may not rejoin any squad. His squad loses Fire Support when he leaves them.


...and the logical accompaniment:

0-1 Master Swordsman
The dueling cages of Fulgrim's legion are never empty, with each warrior testing himself against his brothers in preparation for single combat on the field of war. In battle, the finest warriors rise from the ranks of the legion, and are watched closely by their squad mates as they demonstrate their skill with pride.

Emperor's Children. VANGUARD, TACTICAL OR ASSAULT SQUAD UPGRADE. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.
Any one member of a squad may be upgraded to Master Swordsman for +30pts.

The Master Swordsman gains +1WS and +1I to his basic profile. He may gain a Close Combat weapon for free, if he does not already have one.

The Hunt is On: If the Master Swordsman's squad eliminates a unit in an assault or Sweeping Advance, he may choose to leave the squad. He gains Hit and Run, Stealth and Fleet, and becomes an an independent character for the rest of the game (and is therefore worth a Kill Point) but may not rejoin any squad.


And the living embodiment of perfection (!) himself, Eidolon!

Lord Commander Eidolon - 175pts
Holding one of the most prestigious positions in the III Legion, Eidolon has a reputation as a warrior seeking perfection in everything he does. More recently, a series of ill-advised military actions has left his reputation tarnished and led him to seek more radical methods of self-improvement.

Emperor's Children. Crusading Legions, The Warmaster's Allies and Traitor Legions only. HQ UNIT. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.

Eidolon WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Save 3+

Power Armour, Master-crafted Thunder Hammer, Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Iron Halo

Orbital Bombardment

Pursuing Perfection: You may not take any non-unique Emperor's Children independent characters if your army includes Eidolon. All friendly Emperor's Children infantry units within 12" of Eidolon may re-roll to hit with ranged weapons.

Tactical Blunder: Your opponent may sieze the initiative from you on a roll of 5 or 6, rather than just 6.

Experimental Surgery: Eidolon has undergone secret enhancement surgery to implant a sonic weapon into his throat. Once per game, he may attack as though armed with a Master-crafted Heavy Flamer.


And here is everyone's favourite stick-in-the-mud, Saul Tarvitz! :D

Saul Tarvitz - 100pts
Lacking the prestigious background and personal accolades of his fellow captains, Saul Tarvitz has risen through the ranks as a basic Line Officer, and takes great pride in that fact. Respected by his men and loyal to the bitter end, he has also made allies among the other legions during his years on the Great Crusade.

Emperor's Children. Crusading Legions and The Betrayed only. HQ UNIT. The Great Crusade and Rise of the Warmaster only.

Saul Tarvitz WS5 BS5 S4 T4 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Save 3+

Power Armour, Power Sword, Bolter, Frag and Krak Grenades

Bolter Drill

Line Officer: You may choose whether Tarvitz counts against your Force Organisation Chart limits or not. He must begin the game leading a squad.

A Personal Debt: Any squad led by Tarvitz may make shooting attacks against enemy units locked in combat. Any missed rolls to hit are resolved as hits against the friendly squad instead.


On to the Dark Angels - lots of good ideas floating around for these guys, and the two halves of the legion make for even more interesting opportunities!

0-1 Ravenwing Jetbike Flight - 170pts
The Knights of the Raven's Wing were one of the first to join with Johnson and The Order and can be counted upon to be some of the most loyal units to their Primarch. Their prowess upon their steeds is legendary, rivalling that of the White Scars, and they strike without warning before disappearing into the forests once more.

Dark Angels. FAST ATTACK UNIT. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.
Unit composition: 1 Ravenwing Jetbiker Sergeant and 2 Ravenwing Jetbikers

Sergeant WS5 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A3 Ld9 3+
Jetbiker WS4 BS4 S4 T4 W1 I4 A2 Ld8 3+

Power Armour, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Frag and Krak Grenades, Jetbike (with Twin-linked Bolters)

Skilled Rider, Scout, Hit and Run

Masters of the Forest: Ravenwing Jetbikers may move through woods and forest without penalty.

- May add up to two additional Jetbikers at +40pts each
- The Sergeant may replace his Chainsword with a Power Weapon +15pts, Power Fist +25pts, or Relic Blade +30pts
- Up to two Jetbikers may replace their Chainsword with a Flamer +5pts, Meltagun +10pts, or Plasma Gun +15pts
- The entire squad may be given Melta Bombs for +5pts per model
- The squad may take Cluster Mines for +10pts


And more silly English K-nig-hts...! :D

Knights of Caliban - 70pts
From their noble warrior traditions and clandestine recruitment policies, the mystique of the fabled Knights of Caliban was legendary. Although some were too old to begin Astartes modification after the coming of the Imperium, many still served with the Dark Angels legion and took the defence of the weak as their duty in a galaxy filled with terrifying evil.

Dark Angels. Crusading Legions and Calibanites only. ELITE UNIT. The Great Crusade and Horus Heresy only.
Unit composition: 5 Knights of Caliban

Knight WS5 BS4 S3 T3 W1 I3 A2 LD7 Save 3+

Power Armour, Frag and Krak Grenades, Rotary Bolt Pistol (d3 shots), Master-crafted Power Sword

Questing: Knights gain Preferred Enemy: Monstrous Creatures, and count as having S5 and Ld10 when in an assault against them.

Flawed Technology: Any natural roll of 6 to wound against a Knight causes Instant Death with no save possible.

- May include up to fifteen more Knights at 14pts each
- Up to two Knights may exchange both their Bolt Pistol and Power Sword for a set of Master-crafted Lighting Claws for +30pts per model
- The entire unit may take Caliban Horses (becomes Cavalry) for +10pts per model


And someone to lead them!

Luther - 150pts
The heroic Luther, Knight of Caliban, gave up his place as head of The Order to Lion El'Johnson, the infant primarch he had plucked from the deadly forests of Caliban. Although too old to receive Astartes genetic enhancement, he did benefit from the best augmentation that the Imperium could offer, and now stands proudly in the Lion's shadow...

Dark Angels. Crusading Legions and Calibanites only. HQ UNIT. The Great Crusade and Rise of the Warmaster only.

Luther WS6 BS4 S3 T3 W3 I5 A3 Ld10 Save 3+

Power Armour, Relic Blade, Master-crafted Rotary Bolt Pistol (d3 shots), Frag and Krak Grenades

Knight of Caliban, Eternal Warrior

Questing: Luther gains Preferred Enemy: Monstrous Creatures, and counts as having S5 and Ld10 when in an assault against them.

Touch of Destiny: Luther gains an invulnerable save equal to the number of wounds he has remaining. This may never be better than 2+ and he may not gain wounds in excess of his basic 3.

Deferential: If your army contains a character whose name contains Lion El'Johnson, Luther does not count towards your Force Organisation Chart limits.

Knight of Legend: You may buy Knights of Caliban as Troops choices as well as Elites. All Knights of Caliban count as scoring units and gain Fearless as long as Luther is on the battlefield.

- Luther may take a Caliban Horse (becomes Cavalry) for +20pts


And someone far more cryptic... ;)

The Lord Cypher - 130pts
From the shadowy past of The Order's inner circles, one thing becomes clear: there has always been a Lord Cypher. His face kept shrouded, none can say for certain how long the current Cypher has served in his role, but he continues to preside over the secretive operations of the Calibanite Dark Angels, and regularly converses in private with the highest ranking officers of the legion.

Dark Angels. Crusading Legions and Calibanites only. HQ UNIT. The Great Crusade and Rise of the Warmaster only.

Lord Cypher WS5 BS5 S3 T3 W3 I5 A2 Ld10 Save 3+

Power Armour, Master-crafted Plasma Pistol, Master-crafted Bolt Pistol, Frag and Krak Grenades, Iron Halo

Knight of Caliban

Enigmatic: Lord Cypher may not lead non-Dark Angels units, and gains Feel No Pain when not leading a unit.

Ancient Rites: If your army includes Lord Cypher, your army may include any number of non-unique Dark Angels HQ units. Pay their cost as normal.


Right, let's get back to some nice wholesale slaughter. BLOOD FOR THE PRIMARCH!

0-1 De'shean Gladiators - 105pts
Following in the brutal footsteps of their primarch, many Astartes of the World Eaters legion hail from worlds with traditions of gladiatorial combat. Angron holds a particular affinity for these 'little brothers' and fights alongside them with pride, allowing them to revert to their warrior instinct rather than follow the Imperial doctrines of battle.

World Eaters. Crusading Legions and The Warmaster's Allies only. ELITE UNIT. The Great Crusade and Rise of the Warmaster only.
Unit composition: 5 De'shean Gladiators

Gladiator WS5 BS3 S4 T4 W1 I4 Ad6 LD10 Save 4+

Gladiator Armour, Frag Grenades, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon

Fearless, Fleet, Furious Charge, Rage, Feel No Pain, Scout

Combat Drugs: Whenever the unit makes an assault in their turn, every model must take a Dangerous Terrain test before combat begins.

Whirling Melee: Any Gladiator armed with two identical weapons gains TWO additional attacks in close combat instead of one, and their attacks become Rending.

- May include up to seven more Gladiators at 20pts each
- Any Gladiator may take a second Close Combat Weapon for +3pts
- Any Gladiator may exchange their Close Combat Weapon(s) for a Glaive (Two-handed +1S Rending Close Combat Weapon) for +5pts


But the World Eaters aren't all maniacs... some of them are old and wise!

Terran Veteran Sergeant
The World Eaters have a reputation for maniacal bloodthirsty carnage, but not all of the legionnaires follow this stereotype - in fact, particularly among those who fought in the Unification Wars and remember the times before Angron, a measure of restraint and dignity often cools their aggressive temperament.

World Eaters. Crusading Legions and The Betrayed only. SQUAD SERGEANT UPGRADE. The Great Crusade and Rise of the Warmaster only.
Replaces any basic Sergeant for +20pts.

Voice of Experience

Voice of Reason: The Veteran Sergeant and his squad are not affected by the World Eaters' legion rules.


==========

Right, on to the legions! Here we have the specific special rules which are playable by each legion to represent their methods of warfare etc, seen in the "classic" era. We may add other era-specific rules which can substitute for these ones if desired, but more on those later.

In order to qualify for legion rules, your army must contain an HQ choice independent character with a given legion affiliation. When buying non-unique units (including independent characters) you must nominate a legion affiliation for them, and they should be modelling/painted appropriately to represent this choice.

You may have multiple legions within a single army, but each unit can only claim membership of a single legion and may only benefit from their own legion rules.


Dark Angels: The Knightly Order
Dark Angels units may always take Leadership checks using the Ld of the Dark Angels character with the highest Ld value still on the table. Before their movement phase, any number of Dark Angels squads may choose to become Slow and Purposeful for the remainder of the turn, but they may not declare an assault.

Emperor's Children: Arrogance is a Virtue
All Emperor's Children independent characters count as an additional claimed objective if they enter the opponent's original deployment zone and remain there until the end of the game. They are also worth an additional Kill Point to the enemy once they have entered it.

Iron Warriors: Obstinately Trading Blows
All Iron Warriors units gain +1 to penetration rolls against fortifications, buildings and ruins. Iron Warriors heavy weapons gain Pinning against targets in cover. When fighting in close combat, Iron Warriors infantry are Stubborn.

White Scars: The Riders of Chogoris
White Scars bikes gain Skilled Rider. White Scars independent characters on bikes gain Hit and Run, and grant Hit and Run to any bike unit they lead.

Space Wolves: The Emperor's Hunters
All Space Wolves infantry gain Preferred Enemy: Psyker, and an optional permanent 5+ save to ignore the effects of Psychic powers. Rune Priests never count as Librarians for the era rules.

Imperial Fists: Utilitarian Defence
All Independent Characters gain Bolster Defences. All Imperial Fists infantry count as Stubborn while occupying a fortification, building or ruin.

Night Lords: Fear is a Weapon
When facing a Night Lords army, any enemy unit with Fearless becomes Stubborn instead. Every time a Night Lords squad or character earns a kill point, all enemy units within 12" of the defeated unit must take a Leadership test or Fall Back. All Night Lords units have Night Vision, and become Fearless while the Night Fighting rules are in effect.

Blood Angels: Honour the Fallen
Any Blood Angels character or squad Sergeant is replaced by a 'Fallen Brother' objective when killed. These objectives can only be claimed by any Blood Angels infantry or walker unit, but may be contested as normal by the enemy. Reduce the number of kill points suffered by the Blood Angels by the number of Fallen Brother objectives they hold at the end of the game. They do not count towards normal objective totals.

Iron Hands: The Flesh is Weak
When Iron Hands infantry models lose their last wound, make a D6 roll for each model. On a roll of 6, they remain in play with one wound.

World Eaters: The Butcher's Nails
All World Eaters infantry units armed only with close-combat, pistol or Assault weapons gain Fearless, Furious Charge and Rage. All other World Eaters infantry units gain Furious Charge.

Ultramarines: I am Legion
Non-unique Ultramarines infantry units which are completely destroyed may be put back into the army's Reserves and rolled for as normal. These recycled units are still worth Kill Points and act in every way as the original version, except that they may no longer count as scoring. Dedicated transports are not included.

Death Guard: Efficient Fire Pattern
Bolters used by Death Guard infantry units lose Rapid Fire, and at the beginning of each turn they are instead declared to be either Assault 2 or Heavy 3, for the rest of the turn.

Thousand Sons: Master Sorcerors
All Thousand Sons independent characters and squad Sergeants gain an optional 5+ invulnerable save. A Thousand Sons player may re-roll for Reserves and Deep Strike. Thousand Sons psykers may cast additional psychic powers beyond their normal limit each turn, but every additional power successfully cast inflicts one automatic wound upon the caster.

Luna Wolves: The Mournival Council
If the game mission would be selected randomly, Luna Wolves players may choose to have the mission type re-rolled but must accept the second result. They may choose the deployment type from the normal options once the mission is selected. They may not have the Initiative seized from them, and always choose which player deploys first and takes the first turn. When facing another Luna Wolves player, randomly determine ONE player to receive this bonus.

Word Bearers: In the Emperor's Name
Chaplains may be bought by Word Bearers players without counting against the Force Organisation Chart limits, if desired. Word Bearers Chaplains gain Rage. Word Bearers squads led by Chaplains gain Rage and Feel No Pain.

Salamanders: The Fires of Nocturne
Flamer weapons and upgrades are always free to Salamander units. Any Salamanders model within a squad who has the option to carry a heavy weapon may instead take a Flamer. Additionally, all flamer weapons used by Salamanders units count as Twin-Linked.

Raven Guard: Death From Above
When building your army, Raven Guard may ignore restrictions on the use of jump packs and jump infantry. They may also take Assault squads as Troops choices as well as Fast Attack. All Raven Guard jump infantry gain Heroic Intervention.

Alpha Legion: Death From Within
All Alpha Legion infantry with a basic 3+ save may Infiltrate at the start of the game. This does not apply to Jump Infantry units. Once per game, any Alpha Legion independent character may switch position with any other Alpha Legion infantry model on the battlefield. Remove the other model as a casualty.


==========

As promised, here is the natural progression of the armour, legion and era rules!

Background Upgrades

Background Upgrades are intended to reward players who adhere closely to the canon when building and painting their armies. Any regular unit of FIVE OR MORE Space Marine miniatures is eligible for an upgrade if the following criteria are met:

1) The basic unit has been selected from the standard Codex Space Marines army list
2) The unit is modelled to be wearing appropriate armour (ie. MK1-6, Cataphractii Terminator Armour or other appropriate armour variants as per the 'Collected Visions' artwork/written descriptions)
3) At least 50% of the unit is composed of ONE SPECIFIC armour variant
4) The unit is presented in legion colours appropriate to the era of play
5) The unit itself is appropriate to the era of play

If all of these criteria are met, then each unit receives one of the following Background Upgrades for free:

HQ Units:
- The Imperial Truth: All friendly units within 12" may re-roll Leadership checks
- For the Emperor: All friendly units within 12" gain Counter Attack
Troop Units:
- Quick March: Gain Move Through Cover
- Seek Cover: Gain Stealth
- Open Fire: May re-roll to hit with boltguns, bolt pistols or heavy bolters
Elite Units:
- Defenders of Mankind: Gain Counter Attack
- Seek Cover: Gain Stealth
- Advance Party: Gain Infiltrate
Fast Attack Units:
- Blind Charge: Gain Fleet
- Strike and Fade: Gain Hit and Run (bikers or jump infantry only)
- Defenders of Mankind: Gain Counter Attack
Heavy Support Units:
- Advancing Fire: Gain Slow and Purposeful, but deduct -1 BS if moving
- Seek Cover: Gain Stealth
- Concentrate Fire: Gain Tank Hunter

Note that Scouts do not receive any Background Upgrades.


==========

All comments/queries/suggestions/improvements are welcome!

ShroudFilm - October 6, 2010 11:29 PM (GMT)
Added Truescaling rules.

Added Era outlines.

eFTy - October 6, 2010 11:50 PM (GMT)
Do you want to combine these rules with the Tempus Fugitives rules or just the regular Codex lists? Or are you doing the awesome and brave thing and completely rewriting the army lists for all the legions ? :D

These armour rules - they're completely optional? So someone can choose to have a Mk 1 unit WITH the rule and one without, using regular 3+ power armour save?

The Mark 2 rule is unclear. They gain that 2+ save for the rest of the battle? Like successfully running to charge at something or chasing someone off makes their armour better?

Mark 5 is a bit... uber. Assault squads will be using nothing else, unless the owner simply wants to model a different mark for the looks only.

Mark 6 is... interesting. Devastators will love it I think.

You're gimping the terminators. They're hardly survivable as they are, making them 3+ in combat means everyone will want to get into combat rather than shoot at them. Not sure what will be left to sweep with. At least give them a second wound.

Now I'm all giddy for whatever's next! :D

ShroudFilm - October 7, 2010 12:11 AM (GMT)
These rules are the basis of a complete *reworking* of TF. We're starting from the ground up, but we will end up incorporating much of what they have produced in one way or another.

The armour rules should be seen as a reward for conversions/buying the right models for historical accuracy. They are completely optional.

MK2 is only for that turn. If they charge or make a sweeping advance, they get 2+ as they turn their good side to the enemy on the move! Once you reach their next Shooting phase, start over at 3+ again.

Terminators need a bonus, agreed. I thought of +1 A, but do you think that would even work?

Whitehorn suggested that people will just convert whole armies of MK1 to use as World Eaters (given that he knows what the WE army bonus is!) but TBH, if someone wants to convert 40 MK1s then they deserve an uber army... :lol:

Pacific - October 7, 2010 01:06 AM (GMT)
A nice idea so far, but it hurts people who have mixed armour types in their squads.

As far as I'm aware, there is no evidence that squads had just 1 type of armour all the time. What about some kind of 'majority rule' for armour type bonuses?

So, if you had 6 or 7 marines in a squad in mk4, with a handful of other mk's thrown in, you could receive the bonus?
I tried to model my army on a campaigning force, so using primarily one armour type, with a couple of different ones to perhaps represent a veteran in the squads preference, or lack of supply meaning a different one had to be used.

I think this rule at the moment favours those with 'fresh from the forges' or parade ground style armies.

Loving what you have done so far though, and thanks for including mk6!

ShroudFilm - October 7, 2010 01:21 AM (GMT)
I did consider this... I mean, my own WE are mainly mixed armour types too! Majority could work, I suppose, as long as the rest of the unit is still PH. I just wanted a hard'n'fast reward for PH modellers.

Or is it worth doing a 'Mixed Armour' rule? Make them out to be campaign vets, give them Bolter Drill or something?

*OR* do we just have a list of one-per-squad USRs which people can take as upgrades if their units are basically PH-fluffy?

Pacific - October 7, 2010 02:20 AM (GMT)
Yes thats a good idea.

Either have a 'majority' rule (this might add the potential for confusion to games, so it would be important people spend 2 minutes going over their army before a game).
Keep the same rules which you have already posted.

Or, have a list of upgrades which must be purchased from the list. I did think it might be a little unfair for any non-startes you are playing against to have some of these upgrades for free. I'm imagining devastator squads in mk3 armour and in hard cover at the back of the board, and assault squads in mk2 or mk4 making a squad practically unbreakable (but without the nagatives of the official rule).

So why not have something akin to the old wargear lists for this project, 'armour specific special rules' and then a list underneath with these options and point cost. Then write in the rules for a tactical/assault squad etc. 'you must select the appropriate armour option upgrade from the wargear list'.

Ilmarinen - October 7, 2010 05:41 AM (GMT)
I'm glad the mixed armour issue has been mentioned.

Instead of armour-specific additional rules, what about era-specific additional rules?

Maybe preferred enemy for traitors only during the Age of Darkness, then preferred enemy (or stubborn) for loyalists only during the Siege?

One idea that does spring to mind would be the return of bionics - a 5+ invulnerable save for any unit with bionics (6+ seems rather pointless). This would make Iron Hands players happy, but would also work well for units of veterans, who have been patched up (with better PH tech) and throw themselves back into the fight.

Can we get any special rules for PH vehicles? ;)

Whitehorn - October 7, 2010 06:20 AM (GMT)
These are going to need some serious balancing and perhaps toning down once we hear some horror stories out of playtesting. If you hope to pull in the numbers that TF get at any given event, balance will be questioned a fair bit, considering the bonuses are essentialy free.

I don't really agree on a 5+ invulnerable save for Bionics/Iron Hands, but even if it comes at a cost you have to look at how it affects the army as a whole. Bionics used to be a unique 'get up' save, not an invulnerable.

6+ isn't worthless if bought en masse or for multiple wound characters. 5+ is worthless for Terminators, storm shields, characters with Iron Halos etc.

I don't really want to comment on IH just yet as I've just written a codex for them :P

Shroud, what does Fear do? You need to define these new abilities. If you are referring to Warhammer fear, it's completely changed between 7th and 8th edition.

Mk1
What's your intention with roling twice with sweeping advances? Is it to keep the unit bearing down on the enemy or catch them outright? It could be a little too good against non-marines.
I think 4+ save may just about offset the S bonus, when you consider the step for AP weapons. These guys won't be getting saves vs Heavy Bolters. I'm not too sure it makes sense though, why are they stronger than better marines in better armour? :D

Mk2
If this armous is better protected than Mk1, why not a 3+ save? Why is it tougher than Mk3-8?
Without wanting to sound pedantic, we'll need to be very clear on wording in anticipation of when rules queries arise. There's no such thing as 'charging' in 40k, it's all 'assaulting' now.

Mk3
A varied armour save is a nice touch for these, but why not just all attacks in their front arc? They are said to have stronger frontal armour vs a weaker rear.

Mk4
Interesting bonus, which may be great for some squads, worhless for others. This is probably the most accessible armour mark at the moment as lots of existing armies include it - obviously slowly expanding into the other sets from August due to FW. Hopefully we'll see some good testing of this rule. My only concern is that it may seem 'unfairly' wasted on some forces (fearless units), but then everyone should be building Mk1 armies anyway ;)

Mk5
Lovely idea. I would trade my sanity for a Mk5 army, and then strangle you if I ended up against xenos on the weekend.

Mk6
Not sure on this. Will have to compare against the missions you set forward. If we hhave some sweet vehicle rules, hopefully we won't see to many 'fleeting' Devastators taking objectives :P
I'd like to think this won't be abused - there's plenty of ways to get scoring units.

I do rather like the idea of giving command squads the ability to score though.

ShroudFilm - October 7, 2010 08:48 AM (GMT)
To be clear, WE don't have to necessarily worry about attracting numbers outside our own membership. TF will do it... ;)

No books to hand - did they seriously remove Fear and Terror from 40k? I just assumed I hadn't played against anything that caused it yet... surely a Morale check when you are charged, etc?

I've tried to word these as pedantically as possible (being a Star Wars Minis/Vampire CCG player!) but some of my terminology might be off.

MK1 - Thunder Armour placed an emphasis on upper body strength and grappling. You don't know what the rules for Proto-Astartes are yet...! But the Sweeping Advance rolls are to represent that it is harder to run away from a Thunder Warrior who has you in a bear hug.

MK2 - giving them a 3+ means they are no better than Johnny No-Conversions and his cheesy MK7 codex army.

MK3 - am I not right in recalling that infantry don't have a 'front facing'? Space Hulk showed how terribly annoying that can be to implement. If they don't move, it can be assumed that they are turning to face the enemy, presenting their strongest face etc.

MK4 - maybe we give them the option not to be Fearless as well then? We've all seen how badly a unit being led by a Chaplain tends to fare when charged by an Ork mob...

Lord Commander Lucius - October 7, 2010 09:10 AM (GMT)
Even if your army is modelled specificlly as a PH/Heresy army, can we still playtest these rules for you? By saying that this squad is Mk4, this one Mk2 and so?
I'm sure my regualar opponents would allow me this if i explained what it was for.

Whitehorn - October 7, 2010 09:21 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (ShroudFilm @ Oct 7 2010, 08:48 AM)
MK2 - giving them a 3+ means they are no better than Johnny No-Conversions and his cheesy MK7 codex army.

True, but another bonus could be inferred instead. 2+ just doesn't seem right for Mk2, an improvement over all armour, not just Mk1. MkII was the base for all following marks, not better than.

Perhaps look at: The plates are arranged into articulated hoops, for increased maneuverability.

Re-roll difficult terrain / run rolls?
QUOTE
MK3 - am I not right in recalling that infantry don't have a 'front facing'? Space Hulk showed how terribly annoying that can be to implement. If they don't move, it can be assumed that they are turning to face the enemy, presenting their strongest face etc.


Indeed, though it could be implied. I like you idea, don't get me wrong. It just seems a shame they won't get the bonus if they charge.

QUOTE
No books to hand - did they seriously remove Fear and Terror from 40k? I just assumed I hadn't played against anything that caused it yet... surely a Morale check when you are charged, etc?


I can't even remember when they were in 40k. Hence they'd need defining.

Fear reduces your WS to 1 if you fail the test now. Best to just write the rule down in its entirety.

Yvraith - October 7, 2010 10:10 AM (GMT)
The old Fear made you take a Leadership test when you are charged or when you wished to charge a fear causing unit.

If you failed the test when you were charged, there were two different effects.
- If you equal or outnumber the charging unit you needed to roll "unmodified 6's" to hit in close combat in the first round.

- or if you were charged by a bigger unit, you automatically broke and ran.

If you wished to charge a fear causing unit you took a Ld test,
- if you passed you could charge as normal.
- if you failed you have to remain stationary, and couldn't shoot.*
*(Although this would be hard to police as, the phases in 30/40k are different to fantasy.)

Also if you were defeated by a Fear causing enemy that outnumbers you in assault, you automatically break from combat, with out a leadership test.

As for Mk 3 & its save differences depending on facing.

It could be determined by the direction of the model's previous movement phase.
With any shot taken from the front & sides getting the better value save.

Which I think should be 2+ to the front & side, 3+ or 4+ to the rear.
Considering Mk 3 was taken into consideration for what was required when they designed Tactical Dreadnought Armour. I think the 2+ save reflects this aspect better.

But in saying that, Mk 2 should only be 3+ to reflect the better frontal protection of Mk 3.

For Mark 4 you could change the leadership increase to give them Stubborn instead.
So you always would roll against your unmodified Ld for Close Combat Break tests instead.

Maybe you could look at improving the Initiative value of models in Cataphractii Terminators, to represent the quicker reaction time, this may balance out the change in armour save in Close Combat. (eg. Init 4 becomes 5 etc.) :unsure:

Other than that, I think they are pretty good.

Whitehorn - October 7, 2010 11:31 AM (GMT)
This all falls down to how complex or simply we want the new rules. A lot of new rules can be a pain for players, especially combined with custom armies and missions.

Marking/remembering angles of movement may be a little over the edge for some, particularly when we are fielding 2-3000 points. :lol:

Good ideas Yvraith, you've whet my appetite :)

Pacific - October 7, 2010 11:42 AM (GMT)
For mk3 position on the previous turn is I think a bit too much.

Why not just have 'majority front facing' (the front 90 degrees, like you would for a vehicles front armour) is 2+, the rest 3+ ?

I agree if the rules are going to go into this kind of depth, there will need to be a booklet printed and handed out to everyone who is playing, if possible some weeks or months before the event.

As for the fear/terror rules - I think absolutely implement them, I think its something thats really missing from 40k nowadays.

Cloud Runner - October 7, 2010 12:29 PM (GMT)
For Mk III why not give them a re-roll on failed saves? Represents their tougher armour, but removes the static and facing issues.

Alternatively, as they are a precursor to TDA, give them an option to have a 2+ save sut suffer from the slow & purposeful rule to balance it out.


As 'horn said, making it too complex within an army of 2-3000 points isn't viable - games will rarely get past 2 or 3 turns and a lot of stalemate action would ensue.


I like the idea of USR or specific upgrades to squads - perhaps it's based upon the squad leaders armour mark, as a visual representation to make it easier to remember in game.



Just a few random thoughts to throw in the mix :)

Ilmarinen - October 7, 2010 01:19 PM (GMT)
Okay, here's a thought (in keeping with my reverse view on things recently) ...instead of gaining special rules for having proper PH armies (which seems to be getting really complicated and I think will change the game too much) how about we PENALISE anyone who hasn't made the effort!

We could strap a bomb collar around their neck and make them run at the enem...

*ahem* Ok, different kind of penalty.

How about this: anyone who uses Mk7 armour in their army is using "experimental technology" which is therefore prone to breaking down.

All marines in Mk7 armour have to reroll successful armour saves (which represents the suit glitching and leaving them in the line of fire etc).

All marines in Mk8 armour have to reroll successful armour saves twice! (just because they deserve to be punished more for including Mk8!).

In some ways you could argue that instead of benefits to using earlier armour marks, you should actually have a benefit and a disadvantage.

Mk1: +1S but slow and purposeful (no power assistance for the legs).
Mk3: 2+ Sv on the charge but 4+Sv against templates (due to the reduced rear armour).

Mk1-5: show up more easily on auspex due to their early power cores and were noisy (only Mk6 was more stealthy) so maybe +D6 spotting distance during nightfight?

Whitehorn - October 7, 2010 02:06 PM (GMT)
I believe the point may be lost there Ben.

We want to reward people for making the effort of bringing a themed army, not penalise those who are unable. You may well stop them coming outright and sell very few tickets. Encouraging people to convert a few models is a good thing.

From what I heard, using the correct looking models will give you advantage in the best army nominations too.

A little extra rules flavour won't cause too much damage and I honestly can't see people converting entire armies to an extent where they may abuse subtle changes.

ahriman - October 7, 2010 03:07 PM (GMT)
Some great ideas here but i've just thought of something;

(I don't mean this to sound obnoxious by the way) I spent a lot of time and effort on converting my Thousand Sons to wear Crusade era-ish armour and helmets ect, but they aren't converted to any of the 8 marks of power armour, would this mean that i got no benefits at all???

Apologist - October 7, 2010 03:28 PM (GMT)
While I like the idea of rewarding special effort, I think it's a bit of a lost cause, owing to the fairly complex issues raised already. Take this example from my blog:
QUOTE
**Can't hold it in any longer!**
I'm sorry Apologist but those are all Mk III heads!
Mk II's have a cyclopic visor, whilst Mk III's have a lens for each eye!


Personally, I like the modelling and painting aspect far more than the gaming, but I wouldn't want people to feel that they 'ought' to go for Mark So-and-so Armour over Mark Whatever, if they prefer the latter in looks.

The idea of micro-managing power armour rules is attractive (lets face it, we've all got a few geeky bones in our body ;)), but it should be an expansive, creative choice; not restrictive. Besides where do you stop? Different rules for different patterns of boltgun*?

Perhaps you could get a nice halfway house by simply creating new choices on the Force Org chart called 'Early Mark Armour' so EMA Tactical; EMA Assault etc , which encompasses the Crusade-era stuff, and use the standard Marine choice for everything else. After all, the difference between Mk IV and Mk VI is great to go into on a game like Inquisitor or other super-detailed ruleset, but I think it'd just slow down/create imbalances in 40k.

That way, people who've clearly gone to some effort can select this (these) choice(s) because it's WYSIWYG, without worrying that one member in the squad's got a Mk IV kneepad.

EMA could simply be a 4+ save just like the good ol' days of Rogue Trader for a hefty points discount over regular marines (which'd give the added visual bonus of naturally creating armies with more marines in).


TL;DR: Different rules for different marks of armour is restrictive and overcomplicated (though cool!).


*Actually, that sounds kinda cool.

Apologist - October 7, 2010 03:44 PM (GMT)
Further to my earlier point, it's fairly counter-intuitive that the later marks of armour are worse than the earlier ones, and since 40k has established power armour (by implication, mainly Mk VII) as 3+ ; the others have got to be worse, surely?

I guess the obvious objection is that "I've gone to loads of effort to make my marines all wear Mark II, why would I want to take a decrease in power?"

I don't really have a very good answer beyond 'because you like the background, not powergaming?'



Whatever you eventually decide, I applaud you for taking on a big task! Once it's finished, I'm sure it'll be awesome :)

Ilmarinen - October 7, 2010 04:03 PM (GMT)
I agree that having later marks worse than earlier ones doesn't make sense.

I'm veering towards thinking that marines should be marines, whatever armour they're wearing (except Mk1s) and that any changes to the basic stats are too dramatic (in game terms). In fluff terms the differences are not as dramatic.

It would be very interesting to make up rules for PH armour and weapons for something like Deathwatch (the roleplay game) or maybe even a skirmish game like Necromunda, but 40K doesn't seem to allow these subtleties.

I did like the TF approach of having fluffy extra units and characters. This seems less complicated. As long as the units are appropriate and don't keep changing <_< then I'm sure people would be happy to model up something interesting.

Fair point about not wanting to hammer people who cannot afford lots of FW PH armour marks, but surely we do want to discourage people from just bringing a shedload of Mk7s? (We ARE more snobby than TF, aren't we?!). :P

How about this: you can only be nominated for best army if it is modelled appropriately (any Mk7/8 will disqualify you) AND if you bring a fully themed army then you gain a free unit?

This would not be an army-wide change that would be difficult to implement (or remember!) but would confer a small advantage/reward.

Whitehorn - October 7, 2010 04:10 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Ilmarinen @ Oct 7 2010, 04:03 PM)
How about this: you can only be nominated for best army if it is modelled appropriately (any Mk7/8 will disqualify you) AND if you bring a fully themed army then you gain a free unit?

I believe this is the intention, though maybe not so drastic as disqualification.

Compare 20 Mk6 marines and lots of dreads to...

50 FW marines and a handful of Mk7 suits. Disqualified?

ShroudFilm - October 7, 2010 04:41 PM (GMT)
All good points...

I did want to avoid offering actual POINTS cost adjustments, as it starts to make it so you can't compare like-with-like in gaming terms. I can also appreciate that there is still even now plenty of interpretation over what constitutes even "a standard MK5" suit - where do we draw the line? Helmet, obviously... but does it need to be the appropriate chest? Shoulders? Knees?

What about all our painstaking CSM and RW headswaps? They are generic PH but not specific marks. Even the Steam Knights are harder to interpret...

I think the obvious answer is to have rules which can be chosen for free as upgrades to a fluffy unit, as long as you don't have any non-PH stuff in there.

For example, if you have a Devastator Squad, all in PH armour with no 'fluff violations', you can give them Tank Hunters for free, or another rule from a specific list. It makes it more like a game of Planetstrike/Cityfight/Spearhead but still rewards fluff-adherence. Also, if they are all in the same MK of armour (parade ground style) then they can re-roll something or other. Does that make more sense?

I do intend to create rules for Proto-Astartes, and I think their statlines and special rules will reflect what I've tried to do for MK1 better than these current rules.

As for Best Army etc, it shouldn't be about how much you spend in money, but what level of respect you are showing for the canon. A single unconverted MK7 is a time-saving corner to cut, but it shows that you basically don't care about the level of commitment shown by other players. Disqualified.

Whitehorn - October 7, 2010 07:21 PM (GMT)
To compliment your new suggestion - perhaps the choice of free abilities coul have a reasonable amount of restriction, eg: if you have a fluff-adherent unit in your legion:

World Eaters:
Counter Attack

Imperial Fists:
Bolster Defences

Iron Warriors:
Tank Hunters

Alpha Legion:
Infiltrate

Perhaps throw in some oldschool abilities as new USRs:
Hip shooting: Allows bolters to be fired as Assault 2 upon successful Ld check.
Truegrit: Gain +1 attack when charged if equipped with Boltgun.
Crack Shot: Any to-hit roll of a 6 increases the weapon's AP by 1.


ShroudFilm - October 7, 2010 08:38 PM (GMT)
The legions gain a free upgrade anyway if the meet fluff restrictions. That will be my next post.

I'm so amazed that Bolster Defenses wasn't in the IF Legion Tactics for AOTE...

ShroudFilm - October 7, 2010 09:10 PM (GMT)
Added Proto-Astartes to the first post. Need to work out a reasonable cost, and figure out the extra options.

I like the idea of them seeming under-equipped, plus power weapons were apparently not in use (according to Tales of Heresy) during the Unification Wars.

Do they need Sergeants? My guts says no - all men equal and that.

Do they need an interaction with Imperial Guard orders? Always count as Vox-caster etc?

eFTy - October 7, 2010 09:42 PM (GMT)
Yup, much improvement already. This tiered upgrade system should be pretty fun.

1) If the whole army is done respecting canon, the whole army gets 'upgrade' (depending on legion) for free.

2) If squad X is all done respecting canon, they may choose one upgrade from list (listed options depending upon the type of squad - furious charge for assault marines, tank hunters for devastators, stubborn for tactical squads, etc. some could even show up in multiple units, some could be limited to 1 per army)

3) If squad X is also uniformly done in respects of armour mark, they can have a second skill OR they may receive a points reduction and give up on the previously chosen one (to reflect less experience new marines)

The only thing that really needs a good debate is the level of mark recognition. Head's given, but details like studs for the but it still leaves shoulder pads, torsos, legs, and possibly arms. Perhaps a sort of "at least 50% of the model must match known official depictions of said variant" ?

Pacific - October 8, 2010 03:33 AM (GMT)
I will quote what Apologist said again, because sometimes the last comments on a page get missed, and because I agree with it completely:

QUOTE

The idea of micro-managing power armour rules is attractive (lets face it, we've all got a few geeky bones in our body ), but it should be an expansive, creative choice; not restrictive. Besides where do you stop? Different rules for different patterns of boltgun*?

Perhaps you could get a nice halfway house by simply creating new choices on the Force Org chart called 'Early Mark Armour' so EMA Tactical; EMA Assault etc , which encompasses the Crusade-era stuff, and use the standard Marine choice for everything else. After all, the difference between Mk IV and Mk VI is great to go into on a game like Inquisitor or other super-detailed ruleset, but I think it'd just slow down/create imbalances in 40k.

That way, people who've clearly gone to some effort can select this (these) choice(s) because it's WYSIWYG, without worrying that one member in the squad's got a Mk IV kneepad.

EMA could simply be a 4+ save just like the good ol' days of Rogue Trader for a hefty points discount over regular marines (which'd give the added visual bonus of naturally creating armies with more marines in).


I agree with your last post Shroud, I think if a squad is PH adherent (for the most part) then perhaps some kind of free bonus is the way to go.

And also what Whitehorn has said, keep it characterful for the Legion in question.

You would also need to draw the line on what is 'fluff adherent'. Helmets/colour would be the obvious one, how much further should you insist on adherence to background?

ShroudFilm - October 8, 2010 08:24 AM (GMT)
We will also have a second prize at events, other than Best Army... something like 'Most Fluffy Army'. That will be the most valuable prize, with Best Army next.

Winning all your games will win you a certificate and not a lot more. Maybe prizes for winning taskforce etc.

Whitehorn - October 8, 2010 08:54 AM (GMT)
Any prize for most shaftings by enemy Primarchs?

Einarr - October 8, 2010 09:17 AM (GMT)
If I may recommend something for the whole project, it would be that -in my opinion- the whole '30k era' is all about the Emperor's Legions and their leaders, the Primarchs.

Therefore, I believe that 'Legion special rules' should be more emphasized and the special rules for individual squads (like: MkIII gets 2+ sv etc.) should be fairly balanced and have a minimal effect on the army as a whole.

I must say, bravo for the decision to take up such a project, I'm sure it will come up great! :D

ShroudFilm - October 8, 2010 04:47 PM (GMT)
Updated with legion specials. Need assistance on Dark Angels... I couldn't think of anything that wasn't specific to Calibanites!

lord_caldera - October 8, 2010 04:54 PM (GMT)
This is looking really cool Shroud! As for Terran Dark Angels, what about +1Ld for each unit to represent the pride of being the First Legion?

Whitehorn - October 8, 2010 06:03 PM (GMT)
Could be nasty!

Luna Wolves ability may be a bit powerful if you can force your enemy to depoy first and go last, but I guess they should be smart enough to sit in reserve.

Einarr - October 8, 2010 07:01 PM (GMT)
Yay more rules!
Now for some -hopefully- constructive notes on the Legion rules, and some help on the Dark Angels matter:

DARK ANGELS:
Divide to Terrans and Calibanites- squads must be purchased as Terrans or Calibanites but never mixed.

Terran brothers have:
'Battle wisened' - Re-roll all failed rolls to hit in the first round of an assault.

'Remnants of a past age' - Lose combat squads rule and must always be purchased at maximum strength.

Calibanite brothers have:
'Martial pride' - Lose combat tactics and count as stubborn.


WHITE SCARS:
As they seem to be expert raiders I have only one suggestion: Hit&Run to all units.

NIGHT LORDS:
Remove restriction for jump pack use(If I recall right they had the first jump pack equipped troops)

'Night Fighters' - All Night Lords units are not affected by the Night Fighting rules.

'Terror Tactics' - All vox-casters are scrambled and units equipped with one have their Ld value reduced by 1.
I'm not so sure about this one because it limits the rule down to one race (Imperial Guard). If it could be expanded to the other races too it would be very characterful.

I had some ideas on the IW and IH too, mainly additional rules, but they are very much like their TF counterparts(not that the TF have not done a great job with their rules packs).

Hope this helps,

cheers!

Feytor - October 8, 2010 07:27 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Einarr @ Oct 8 2010, 07:01 PM)


'Terror Tactics' - All vox-casters are scrambled and units equipped with one have their Ld value reduced by 1.
I'm not so sure about this one because it limits the rule down to one race (Imperial Guard). If it could be expanded to the other races too it would be very characterful.

Or just lower the ld by 1 for every opposing army you fight.

Gagoc TheAncient - October 8, 2010 09:05 PM (GMT)
What about the Inner Galactic wars of the Great Crusade?
Shouldn't this be mentioned in the Era's as a 7th era?

It is when the Imperium sought to bring the worlds and systems of the galactic to compliance. Wars were fought on Heavy Gravity worlds (at least heavier than Terran norm), in tunnel systems and ship-to-ship (lots of boarding actions), against all manner of Xenos and abhumans including the [name removed by Inquisitional order].
The Mk III Iron Armour was developed during and for these wars, and there's a good chance that the Cataphractii Terminator suits were first deployed during them as well.

It seems as though these wars led to quite a bit of innovation and weapons development, including the recovery of STC vehicles.

It is at least worth considering as though there is little known about them, that may change in the future.

ShroudFilm - October 8, 2010 11:13 PM (GMT)
Gagoc - we didn't want to have too many eras, plus the Great Crusade era will be far more diverse and rules-ready which I think will demonstrate what you're suggesting anyway. :)

Einarr - this is for the unified DAs. I will split them when they get their second set of legion tactics. ;)

Whitehorn - sorry, I should clarify: they get to choose for BOTH, not EACH. You choose who sets-up-first-and-takes-the-first-turn, not each bit separately. Otherwise, yes it would be brokeded!

eFTy - October 9, 2010 12:15 AM (GMT)
Dark Angels - the proposed +1 leadership is nice, though not exactly grand...

Emperor's Children - I don't really understand this one. Why not just make their characters 'inspiring' - they give each squad within 12" one re-roll per player turn

Iron Warriors - stubborn would fit them better I think; as is, most of the units won't get squat as 40k battles aren't sieges, and in none of the books are they portrayed as master vehicle wreckers. Some of them were, but it's not exactly a legion trait...

White Scars - nice, but how about Hit and Run as an alternative?

Space Wolves - what does that rune priest not counting as librarians thing mean?

Imperial Fists - nice, but independent characters could also get stubborn to set them apart from the sergeants (stubborn is passed onto a joined unit when characters join it)

Night Lords - nice, however it'll often be useless considering how rarely psychology actually does something in this game (ignoring psyker cheese squads); how about adding 'after every turn, on a 4+ the penalty is increased to -2, then on 5+ to -3, then on a 6 to -4' ? This would show how the night lords amp up the terror games and the enemy's morale slowly breaks down, but shouldn't de-balance the game too horribly too fast.

Blood Angels - breaks the game a bit too much, why not just give them furious charge and something extra to characters?

Iron Hands - nigh useless, as most of the time they'll just use their armour or cover save; make it old school bionics, as a separate type of save and it should prove fun, they'll become mini-necrons.

World Eaters - cool, but give tactical squads some combat bonus too; they were all pretty nuts about close combat, even the devastators if I recall correctly...

Ultramarines - kinda iffy: terminators and assault marines with Without Number would be way too good. tactical squads would never reach the fight again, and devastators squads would practically just be taken out for a single turn then show up and keep peppering; why not just give them all a discount or a total points bonus (like 10-20%)

Death Guard - how about relentless + true grit? (they'll have heavy weapons cut from their lists, I assume)

Thousand Sons - lame! give them something to show how they used trickery and sorcery to dictate the terms of battle, like re-rolling reserves, always choosing the side, forcing enemy units to go into reserve, etc. The powers they used during the battle should be in the army list.

Luna Wolves - nice

Word Bearers - not really impressive, how about finding something to benefit the whole army, like making the Chaplain's abilities have a 12" ranged bubble?

Salamanders - think making the flamers twin-linked would be better, they're already very cheap

Raven Guard - ok, but what restrictions are there anyway? how about jump packs as options for command squads?

Alpha Legion - cool, but restrict it to power armoured units on foot and give tactical squad sergeants the option to take said beacons. Add outflanking to transports and bikes.




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