Title: What codex to use
Miss Dee - August 12, 2010 03:07 PM (GMT)
What codex to use Space Marines or the DA one for my Pre heresy DA's?
Doghouse - August 12, 2010 03:11 PM (GMT)
I'd go with DA but to honest you could use Codex Space Marines or even Chaos Marines.
Have a look to see what units are available to the dark angels pre-heresy and base your decision off that. :)
Pacific - August 12, 2010 03:21 PM (GMT)
*prepares to shoot the first person who suggests Codex: Chaos Space Marines*
OK, now thats dealt with, I guess codex DA would be ok (remembering of course that the Deathwing did not exist in PH), but Codex SM would be the most versatile in terms of getting the full spread of wargear and vehicles.
I guess you could also try and follow the trend of 98% of players starting a new SM army and just use codex BA, although you will have a hard time explaining the red thirst and fitting in some of the more exotic troops choices (unless it's a DA 'civil war' era force from during the heresy, when presumably the marines within the legion were fighting tooth-and-nail against each other and frothing at the mouth as they did so.)
Miss Dee - August 12, 2010 03:25 PM (GMT)
Thanks Space Marines it is.
Doghouse - August 12, 2010 04:00 PM (GMT)
What's wrong with using the chaos codex? :blink:
The chaos codex is perfectly fine for pre-heresy armies and people have been using it in one incarnation or another for years.
In fact the army list is probably truer to what a Legion should be like than the regular codex (unless you are Ultramarines) because because it was originally designed by andy chambers to represent troops that had just come from the time of the Heresy.
The latest edition is a toned down version but works just as well.
Pacific - August 12, 2010 04:35 PM (GMT)
There are whole 800 page heated discussions about on it other forums, which I think ended in a few injuries and at least one heart-attack. Suffice to say I wasn't one of the people who though they had done a good job with the latest C:CSM in that it invalidated a fair chunk of peoples previous CSM armies. It was basically the last one of the previous '4th ed' era of codecies which tried to create a watertight system of rules for tournament play by cutting down on the number of options, before GW basically realised such a thing was impossible (the people who spend 3 months reading through new army lists and carry a special tool for measuring 2" between each of their models will always find a way) and the company took the opposite design direction for 5th edition.
Codex: SM lets you have a lot more choice in what style of force you want to represent, and has a hell of a lot more wargear and vehicles than C:CSM. I agree that the larger squad sizes are more representative of PH, but it's too little too late and the equivalent in my book of offering a manicure to someone after you've just sawn their hands off.
I guess of course though there is nothing to stop you getting both of them, and then swapping in one or the other as you see fit (as you're using a 'counts as' its not like you have to repaint all of your models!) :)
Doghouse - August 12, 2010 08:48 PM (GMT)
Don't worry mate, I won't get into an eight hundred page debate with you. I'm not really a fan of the codex for the same reasons that you stated above. ;)
I think that the main thing is to look at the chaos codex minus the chaos stuff in terms of pre-heresy.
The fourth edition is probably one of the most important changes in codexes for pre-heresy because it was the first time that they sat down and tried to figure out what set the current marines and the heresy era marines apart.
Most of it was pretty simple, lack of anti-grav technology, no assault cannons, combi weapons for terminators, etc.
Most of this has been reconned with the novels but it did lay the ground work for the pre-heresy players of today.
You do have the basics with the current chaos dex though, you have infantry platoons, havocs, predators, rhinos, assault squads, terminators with power weapon options and combi-bolters, land raiders etc. And push comes to shove you can proxy a Primarch with the Daemon Prince rules.
I think both probably have their pro's and cons at the end of the day, chaos has the more credible unit sizes and correct vehicles but lacks choice and the space marine marine one has choice but is a codex organisation that didn't come about for the other legions till after the heresy.
Best bet? Play pre-heresy Ultras and use the current marine codex. :D