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The Great Crusade > The Enemies of Mankind > Da Klanz!

Title: Da Klanz!

Vredesbyrd - January 17, 2008 10:34 PM (GMT)
I was wondering if the Ork Klanz (Goffs, Deathskullz, Bad Moons, Blood Axes) were about Pre-Heresy.

I'm wanting to build a Bad Moons and I'm very tempted to PH it up, without stealing any ideas....


old zogwort - January 18, 2008 01:41 AM (GMT)
im almost positive they were...
it would be kind of hard for the imperium to document all the clans and stuff during the age of strife, so i assume thats when they were formed.

Arven - January 18, 2008 03:38 PM (GMT)
I'm assuming the famous clans, like Goffs, Blood Axes, Evil Suns, Deff Skulls and the rest of them, being the largest known to mankind have always been around in one form or another. They're the clans that are stable and influencial to have survived for 10,000 years.

Weiss - January 18, 2008 04:08 PM (GMT)
I agree, I don;t really see ork society evolving much at all... And they have been around since the Old Ones created them, haven't they?

ShroudFilm - January 18, 2008 06:03 PM (GMT)
They had been stealing Imperial (and other races') technology for millennia so I don't think they would be ANY different. Just be careful about having post-Heresy armour or tanks in their looted stuff... :D

Arven - January 18, 2008 06:15 PM (GMT)
Seeing as how cool the SM were during the Great Crusade, they would probably have looted more SM stuff at that time that they do in M41.

Emphasize PH by using colour schemes that changed post-H, such as TS, EC etc.

Vredesbyrd - January 18, 2008 08:00 PM (GMT)
Hmmm my Warbosses Mega Armour and Cybork body made from a Dreadnought'll be painted Pre-Heresy World Eaters then....

I'll use the Forgeworld Dread so people can't mistake it for some made up Vanilla marines chapter. Night Lords are a possibility too as their Forgeworld Dreadnought's iconography is ambiguous in its Pre or Post Heresy age.

Any other suggestions for modelling?

Rudolf The Red - January 20, 2008 08:40 PM (GMT)
A friend at my local gaming group was going to use the one of the old landspeeders and add wheels to use as a buggy.

Arven - January 21, 2008 03:27 AM (GMT)
Actually, if you haven't seen it before, adding wheels to Landspeeders makes an incredible buggy!

Have a look here:

Obviously you could reinforce the pre-heresy theme by using the old skool metal land speeders.

ShroudFilm - January 21, 2008 03:54 AM (GMT)
The new Landspeeders are canonical for PH too... there is a card in the CCG called 'Orbital Lasers' or something, and shows a traitor 4th edition speeder getting ripped in half by satellite weaponry! :lol:

Love those buggies - very White Scars, if you ask me!

Da Warboss Grubbum - February 3, 2008 08:26 AM (GMT)
Thanks for the Mention Rudolf, I was actually going to not add wheels though, mae them still be landspeeders, but give them orky bits, make it so some are upside down (showing great *ahem* crap *ahem* piloting) and add random bits onto it to make it look orky. Also planning on making a odd looking loota squad, with really strange tech other then the more imperial looking stuff they have now. Also, instead of marine heads on the boss poles, I am going to stick eldar heads.

Vredesbyrd - February 18, 2008 02:08 PM (GMT)
I've had a brilliant idea....Pre-Heresy Orks that've been duffed over by World Eaters, and have gotten ideas.

'Blood For Da Primark! Skullz For Da Goldan Frone!'

Weiss - February 18, 2008 02:10 PM (GMT)
Great idea.

For the heads on the banner, could you add Kroot? I'm not sure if they were around or not...

Vredesbyrd - February 18, 2008 02:18 PM (GMT)
They can still have Marine helmets on banner poles, and human skulls.

I think proto-Kroot were about, but I'll not be using their heads, skulls are more fun.

Weiss - February 18, 2008 04:46 PM (GMT)
Would be very orky for them to think the noise their enemies made was the reason they won...

Rogal Dorn - February 27, 2008 05:29 AM (GMT)
have one landspeeder trailing a spiral of smoke....and him screaming his head off....that would be awsome

Apologist - March 3, 2008 02:13 PM (GMT)
Waaagh the Orks hints at 'Da Big Fight', an immense Ork war that resulted in the Blood Axes (at that point the biggest and by far the most dominant clan) being taken down a peg or two by all the other clans a fight from which they never recovered.

It's never specified as to the date, so it could have happened well before the Great Crusade (or even before humanity evolved!)

However, aside from that (which may or may not be relevant, depending on your interpretation) orks have pretty much always been orks.

A few thoughts:
Orks created Gargants after seeing Imperial Titans (so gargants are possible at any time after orks first encountered Imperial titans) (Source: Waaagh the Orks).

As Arven mentions, the clans are not limited to six. There's at least one minor clan (the White Spiders, mentioned in Waaagh the Orks), and it's been hinted that there are plenty more. A mem-stem in the dusty back of my neurocircuit is sparking and insisting there's one called the Black Toof clan, but I may be misremembering this.

The six big clans (Evil Sunz, Bad Moonz, Goffs, Snakebites, Death Skulls and Blood Axes) are permanent, and seem to represent sections of the ork psyche. Minor clans might be temporary developments of the great clans (White Spiders shared a lot of characteristics with the Snakebites, for example), or they might be resurgent aspects of the orky psyche that are needed at a specific crisis point in ork history; and can then be allowed to subside back down till that sort of ork is needed (much like oddboyz are produced if they're needed).

One thing is certain: orks are big, green and nasty at any period in history, and the armies of mankind will need everything they can throw at the boyz to stand a chance of victory!

Kroot exist, but have not yet made contact with orks. As such, they're in a primitive state with no technology beyond yagga fighting staffs and other stone-age tech. More importantly, they haven't yet left Pech, their homeworld: Kroot became spacefaring after invasion by orks, where (it is implied) they absorbed the ork's natural ability with technology, and built the first Warspheres.

Weiss - March 3, 2008 03:21 PM (GMT)
Thank you very much, Apologist, very informative. Is Waaagh the Orks! a BL book? Or is it a previous rulebook?

Apologist - March 3, 2008 04:49 PM (GMT)
Waaagh the Orks was the original ork supplement for 40k. It's a true source book no rules at all; just background on every aspect of ork kultur, from shoutin' choirs to the orks' mastery of force field technology.

It was followed up by 'Ere We Go! and Freebooters, two books that each covered the army lists of three clans and offered various hobby materials from how to paint ork-genestealer hybrids to the ork name generator.

All three are a lot of fun, and well worth getting. Think of them as the equivalent to the Realm of Chaos books.

Weiss - March 3, 2008 05:02 PM (GMT)
hmm, shall have to see if Kev (friend of mine) has it still. He has all the Gorkamorka books too...

little horus - July 17, 2008 08:01 PM (GMT)
orks iz da biggest and da best :angry: waaaaaagh!!

VESPASIAN - July 20, 2008 10:09 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (little horus @ Jul 17 2008, 08:01 PM)
orks iz da biggest and da best :angry: waaaaaagh!!

Little Horus: Please do not commit thread necromancy unless you have somthing constructive and informative to add to the topic of the thread.

Not only is it annoying for members who have a genuine interest in the subject of the thread (and who therefore may think that some additional and important information has become available to them); it is also against the Forum Rules.

So please do not do this again.

little horus - August 17, 2008 08:56 PM (GMT)
sorry :( any way i would say orks where very feral few guns lots of boyz very very few tanks old bolter's kinda like snakebites oh and lots of warpaint

Pacific - August 17, 2008 11:08 PM (GMT)
Haha excellent, last few posts really made me laugh :)

VESPASIAN - August 19, 2008 07:51 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (little horus @ Aug 17 2008, 08:56 PM)
sorry :( any way i would say orks where very feral few guns lots of boyz very very few tanks old bolter's kinda like snakebites oh and lots of warpaint

No problem.

It certainly sounds like an interesting idea Little Horus. Have you got any other thoughts or information about pre-Heresy Orks?

little horus - August 19, 2008 09:14 PM (GMT)
yes no trukks ,warbikes ,battle wagons ,deff koptas, meks, shokks attak guns ,lootas or burnas. just keep it feral ;)

Weiss - August 20, 2008 07:17 AM (GMT)
Urm, why? If memory serves, the Orks were created by the Old Ones (as the Eldar were, I believe) to guard their temples. They've had thousands of years of looting and pillaging to aquire technology. On top of that, each Ork has his knowledge genetically built into him, suggesting that this is a design aspect from when they were created...

little horus - August 20, 2008 07:54 AM (GMT)
you do know every ork is pyshic to make it weapons work the adeptus rans test on every or gun and they only work with the mind power of the ork going "im goin to kill dat humie with dis gun "plus it wasent the old ones it was ' da lost race' wich i think where snotlings who created orks as warriors to protect them but the orks wanted to be the rules so they took over

Weiss - August 20, 2008 12:17 PM (GMT)
I do understand that concept, but it's quite obvious that there needs to be a physical object there for the ork to expect something to happen from it.

In any case, that is irrelevant. Consider this quote from Lexicanum. Though obviously, you cannot rely 100% on -pedia sources, this article seems pretty well grounded.

Additional rules, cultural details, and painting guidelines were given in the later expansions Waagh Da Orks and 'Ere We Go!. An explanation for the combination of brutal stupidity with relatively high technology was now found: Orks had been created, in times long past, as a warrior race by the long-vanished Brain Boyz. The possibility was established later on that these may have been the Old Ones, who created the Krork as part of a last-ditch attempt to fight off the Necrons, though there is nothing stopping the Old Ones creating the brain boyz who create the rest of the orks.1.

Orks are thus genetically engineered to be muscular, aggressive, and none too bright; their technology is maintained by a caste of Oddboyz who have genetic dispositions to do well at such tasks. Indeed, the Brain Boyz were apparently able to encode information on how to build simple machinery in the genetic strands of Orks; thus Mekboyz require very little training in their function, since they understand mechanical principles at an instinctive level.

Thus their knowledge of how to make technological items is encoded into them from the start. On top of this, not only are humans not the only civilisation that the orks can scavenge off, but you have to remember that there already was a galaxy-spanning confederation of humans/aliens during the dark age of technology that had a far higher tech-level than the current imperium. I see no reason why the orks would be more feral 30k than 40k.

The race that made them was "da brain boyz", who are either the Krork or the Old Ones. I personally would expect it to be the Old Ones. Where did you get your information on a bunch of snotling overlords? I'd be interested to know.

[EDIT]: Ork Article on Lexicanum (for source reference)

Horn - August 20, 2008 12:20 PM (GMT)
The old brain boyz concept was early RT days, believed to be a 'smart' strain of grots.

Typically, this is retconned with the new ancient history lore that came with the Necrons and Krorks.

Weiss - August 20, 2008 12:32 PM (GMT)
Cool, thanks Horn. Shall have to have a look at the RT ork books...

Horn - August 20, 2008 01:30 PM (GMT)
I have this if you want me to find anything specific?

user posted image

Gagoc TheAncient - August 20, 2008 06:26 PM (GMT)
Yes I remember that story about the Brain Boyz being Grots.
They were meant to have eaten a special fungus that gave them their Intelligence and allowed them to rule over the Orks.

Then the Orks rose up against them and destroyed all of this special fungus they could find, and the Brain Boyz turned into the present version of Grots.
But the Getchen know this story and secretly try to seek out this fungus so that they may overthrow and, once again, enslave their Ork masters.

I think I read it in 'Waaagh The Orks', but I'm not sure. I'll have to dig it out of where ever it is and have a look.

Lonewolf - August 20, 2008 07:55 PM (GMT)
wow until i saw this i completely forgot i've got waaagh the Orks and freebooters sitting in my cupboard.

I'm pretty sure your right about the gretchin ruling the orks originally too.
(must dig it out and have a look, oh the nostalgia)

Doghouse - October 20, 2008 05:45 PM (GMT)
The Snotlings were the Brain boyz.

Pacific - October 20, 2008 11:25 PM (GMT)
Yes I believe so. I liked that rather dark, x-files type story line they had originally, it contrasted nicely with the comic efforts of the orcs on the tabletop in 1st and 2nd ed.

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