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The Great Crusade > Pre-Heresy Background Q&A > World Eaters Legion speculations


Title: World Eaters Legion speculations
Description: And maybe some others


Aiwass - May 11, 2010 05:16 PM (GMT)
Well, I belive that this need a proper thread. I've been thinking in how a legio is structured and organized. There are many holes here and I hope that with your help we can fill this holes.

This is a quote from this topic:

QUOTE
Thanks for the replies, I go for Century [consensus in the absence of a better term for Company divisions]:)

I'm wondering the same about the WE Captains, if they are more or less the equivalent of a Chapter Master, what is the equivalent of a captain? I guess we actually don't have any. But if we go a little forward on time to the Space Crusade/Rogue Trader era --not crusade/pre heresy era I know, is post heresy, I'm guessing the scourge era (or whatever is called) mainly because at least in Space Crusade, there are no Chapters yet, but Legiones Astartes-- We have some nice ranks:

Captain - In charge of the Company
Lieutenant Comander - In charge of the Century
Lieutenant - In charge of Veteran squads
Sargent - In charge of a squad

About the Century composition... I asume too that a Century is 1000 marines standard. So we have that in the Legion squads are larger, like in C:CSM.

Here is a speculation about:

1 Veteran squad (always deploy in demi-squads; chosen/terminators) of 20 marines.
2 Tactical squad of 20 marines each.
1 Assault squad of 20 marines (can be on foot (berzerkers) or with jet-pack (raptors)).
1 Havoc squad of 20 marines.

Total 100 marines.

This is for a Battle Century, I guess that for Assault Century the composition varies like the 8th Company of any 40k SM Chapter, also for Havoc Centuries.

What do you think about it?


Now I realized that the Veterans and Terminators is more or less the same *facepalm* so Lieutenant in charge of Veterans. Fix'd in the quote.

Back in the Century composition, has outcome to be the same with minor changes than a 40k SM Battle Company by chance. Some people can o can not agree with this. I would agree but not sure yet. Is clean, simple and in the GW style but...

I see the WE legions with heavy roman-esque martial influences --besides their Spartacus primarch-- and I'm very happy about the "Century", but always can dive just a little deep more.

A Roman Legio it consisted of 10 cohors (after Marius) labelled I to X, in a very similar way as how the Legiones Astartes consisted. Each cohors (company) is formed by 3 maniples (???) and each maniple is formed by 2 century, except the first cohors It consists of five double centuries. I can see a nice patter here.

Unlike Roman Legion, the Astartes was not armed in the same way. We have heavy weapons specialists, special weapons and tactics, scouts... Oh, like Roman Legion.

So, the point is, is fine now (the quoted sketch organization) or can we go for something more? I mean, Khârn's company is supposed an assault company. Maybe I'm wrong but I can asume that to be an assault company equals to lots of assault marines, with some tactical and heavy support but maybe in a minor flavour.

An analogy (I'm very upset of my level of english) can be that Legio=Chapter so Company = Company so Century = Squad... hum... Better if I leave the analogies to others.

What I'm trying to express is the fact of a Company is not Chapter-like because the ancient battles were very large scale and the Companies work together --This is a take on too-- but with some autonomous operational capability. Repeat, I guess.

I mean:

|
+8th (Assault) Company
| +Century I
|  |  +Veteran squad
|  |   |
|  |  +Assault squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Assault squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Tactical squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Heavy Weapons squad
|  |  
|  +Century II
| |   +Veteran squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Assault squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Assault squad
|  |    |
|  |   +Tactical squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Heavy Weapons squad
[..]
|  +Century V
|  |   +Veteran squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Assault squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Tactical squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Tactical squad
|  |   |
|  |   +Heavy Weapons squad
|  |
|  +Century VI
|      +Veteran squad
|      |
|      +Assault squad
|     |
|      +Tactical squad
|     |
|      +Heavy Weapons squad
|     |
|      +Heavy Weapons squad
|
+9th (Heavy Support) Company

... And so on. I really hope that sketch make sense of what I mean :lol:

Any thoughts?

The Red Sorcerer - May 12, 2010 11:06 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
Captain - In charge of the Company
Lieutenant Comander - In charge of the Century
Lieutenant - In charge of Veteran squads
Sargent - In charge of a squad

I'd probably avoid Lieutenant Commander as a rank - its a bit too similar to Lord Commander, which exist as a rank in some Legions and outrank Captains (see the EC for example where they are in charge of several Chapters with subordinate Captains). I think Lieutenant would fit better if you want a subordinate rank to Captain - EC Captains are mentioned as having subordinate Lieutenants in Fulgrim, so its at least partially supported by recent background. I'd cut the ranks after that - Sergeants/Veteran Sergeants should probably be the ranks in charge of squads ratrher than adding additional complexity.

so:
Captain
Lieutenant
Veteran Sergeant
Sergeant

I agree that Companies/Centuries are likely to have a range of troops despite their specialisation - so a WE assault company could well have assault marines with jetpacks, foot/rhino mounted assault marines/berzekers, tactical marines and so on despite its nominal 'assault' focus, in contrast to a 'pure' assault company like the 40K Chapters. Of course, maybe not - in 40K Assault Companies also provide bike riders, Land Speeder crews and so on. Its also possible that a mix of bikes, speeders and assault marines with packs and in transports was considered enough variety of troops (particularly in the assault focussed World Eaters) to get the job done without other support.

As for company structure, I'd stick with Company/Century/Squad as the general layout - from what info we have on Pre-Heresy Legion organisation, there don't seem to be that many different organisational levels. Chapter/Company/Squad seems to be a pretty common organisation, with a similar structure (but different names for Chapter/Company) be followed by other Legions.

ShroudFilm - May 12, 2010 11:26 AM (GMT)
I'd steer clear of any rank which is not a playable gaming unit. Sergeant, Commander and Captain should be all you need. It should be more feudal than modern military.

Aiwass - May 12, 2010 06:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
I agree that Companies/Centuries are likely to have a range of troops despite their specialisation - so a WE assault company could well have assault marines with jetpacks, foot/rhino mounted assault marines/berzekers, tactical marines and so on despite its nominal 'assault' focus, in contrast to a 'pure' assault company like the 40K Chapters. Of course, maybe not - in 40K Assault Companies also provide bike riders, Land Speeder crews and so on. Its also possible that a mix of bikes, speeders and assault marines with packs and in transports was considered enough variety of troops (particularly in the assault focussed World Eaters) to get the job done without other support.


That's I'm wondering about. For those who have read HH novels I have a question. Are the Companies/Chapters of a Legion doing operations by themselves or most commonly interact with other Companies?

I think that this point give us a clue about his composition, but I'm more for the first option you said.

QUOTE
As for company structure, I'd stick with Company/Century/Squad as the general layout - from what info we have on Pre-Heresy Legion organisation, there don't seem to be that many different organisational levels. Chapter/Company/Squad seems to be a pretty common organisation, with a similar structure (but different names for Chapter/Company)  be followed by other Legions.


Me too, after all, nothing says that Guilliman was invented the Codex from scratch.

QUOTE
I'd steer clear of any rank which is not a playable gaming unit. Sergeant, Commander and Captain should be all you need. It should be more feudal than modern military.


Agreed. Besides I agree or not, there are the Lieutenant and Lieutenant Comander in Space Crusade --before the Codex Astartes-- just that now those are "non playable units".

so this:
Captain
Lieutenant
Veteran Sergeant
Sergeant

or this?:
Captain
Commander
Sargeant

Anyways I'm not sure at all, just because that implies modify the rank badges, ergo the fluff :unsure:




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