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Title: Robots


Apologist - May 7, 2010 11:29 AM (GMT)
Doghouse and I are planning a game soon, and we thought some robots would be a fun addition. Any suggestions would be welcome!

These're based on the old robots pic for reference:
user posted image
...so we need to make sure the old configurations are available.

Initital thoughts
Starting with a Heavy sentinel, we've got a walker with AV 12/10/10 and a heavy weapon.

All 'machine-spirit' guided weaponry these days is BS2; so I think that might be a characterful change. Of course, it's also always twin-linked; so let's twin-link the gun. Twin-linked BS2 is pretty much the same as straight BS3, so I don't think the points need change there.

Secondly, what's a giant robot without a big bashy fist? Let's chuck on a dreadnought close combat weapon. That makes it considerably more fighty, but with only one attack, it's not going to be unbalancing. I'd say +15pts for a DCCW; or +30 for two, swapping out the gun as well.

The old robots often mounted a back weapon, so that option's going to have to be on there. Ideas for points?

I think a version of the servitor 'mindlock' rule would be cool the maniple does nothing on the roll of a 6; unless accompanied by a model with the Blessing of the Omnissiah special rule (i.e. Techmarines, Iron Priests, Enginseers, Masters of the Forge etc).

Alternatively, we could add in a simpler version of the old programming rules. I'd think something like:

Program: Robots have limited reasoning capability, and their fierce machine-spirits are typically either unleashed on the enemy as a whole, or a single point is nominated for capture. The robots will then advance to that point, annihilating any resistance.
The unit has the rage universal special rule. If the unit is accompanied by a model with the Blessing of the Omnissiah rule, the owning player may nominate a single objective or unit at the start of the turn. This objective then always counts as the 'nearest enemy unit' for the purposes of the rage rule, and the unit ignores the crew shaken/crew stunned results.
If the unit is not accompanied by such a model, the unit will continue to advance upon the last nominated target. If the target is destroyed or reached, the unit will not move.

Howzat?

+++
This is a very open design, so please throw in any ideas, critiques or suggestions :)

Whitehorn - May 7, 2010 11:55 AM (GMT)
I've been working on a ruleset for CC, but rather than just post them I'll comment on what you have.

As Automatons you have to consider what the lack of crew means.

Are they vehicles? Like you say, the closest thing to this a Sentinel or Killer Kan. They both have AV values but also crew.

Wraithguard and Wraithlords are arguably a closer fit as they don't have crew. They don't have AV.

Personally I went for infantry status, with Wounds and Toughness values. If you go for vehicles, it may be worth considering a version of Daemonic Possession, perhaps avoiding crew shaken/stunned.

Machine spirit and Mindlock are both sound, but grouping them together may cripple Robots. Passing a test to act and then rolling on BS 2? I have this issue with the TF rules... they end up with blast or close combat weapons in an attempt to not be useless.

Perhaps you could work a system like Synapse. Have your Omnissiah models act as a 'node'. If Robots are within radius of a node, you can order than as normal. Outside that node, they revert to their core program, which could vary between each type of robot. This coupled with BS2.


Doghouse - May 7, 2010 03:04 PM (GMT)
I like both sets of ideas floating around here. :)

The current model I'm working on stands about the same size as original dreadnought with the long legs rather than the short ones.
I'm aiming for a Conqueror to begin with but may make it into a Castigator Mk II. The Castigator was a failed design mentioned in the rules that had far too much armour and was armed with a single bolt gun. As a result it was far too slow and under armed to support the troops and was abandoned.

I do agree there are two ways we can go about this firstly with a vehicle profile and secondly with a character profile.

The two points I'd consider is that if you are going for a machine spirit then it's probably best to have a vehicle profile. Maybe have them BS 3 but if out of range of the techmarine controller then it reverts to the power of the machine spirit rules?
The vehicle rules also would allow DCCW but the trick is going to be making sure that the robots don't out perform the dreadnoughts.

A standard character profile would work as well but you'd probably need to restrict it to a maximum of two wounds tops and maybe have a leadership test to see if it works when out of range of the controller.
I think if you gave it three wounds you are in danger of creating a unit of wraithlords which could be nasty.

malika - May 11, 2010 10:48 PM (GMT)
Just a question, will robots be included on both sides or just amongst the Iron Warriors?

Magos Explorator - May 12, 2010 06:52 AM (GMT)
One easy 'counts-as' for general friendly games would be as Space Marine Attack Bikes.

The weapons correspond reasonably to some of the loadouts possible (bolters and heavy bolter/multi-melta), plus they're reasonably tough and good in combat with the Attack Bike statline. The downsides would be that you could only have 3 per slot rather than 4, you can't have a Tech-Priest leader (unless you use a Space Marine character or allied Inquisitor as a count-as and have them join the squad) and the weapon fit isn't perfect.

Apologist - May 12, 2010 08:35 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (malika @ May 11 2010, 10:48 PM)
Just a question, will robots be included on both sides or just amongst the Iron Warriors?

Not sure yet I'd certainly like to paint some up, but I wouldn't want to dilute the impact of the forces and what makes them striking will be the differences between their force make-up and the similarities of the models. Plus, since he's doing all the effort for them, I'd feel dead guilty just swooping in and stealing some of his thunder!

Since Steve is going for a line-breaking assault force, I thought I might go for an artillery force I'm figuring I'll take my standard force of three tactical squads, plus a devastator squad and a couple of Whirlwinds (since they're supposed to be common in the Horus Heresy, but no-one ever takes them).

Leading the force would be a Librarian named in Codex: Titanicus (details to come), a Halcyon Rhino (I'm figuring the Ultramarines would have achieved fleet superiority, but are struggling to force the Iron Warriors out of their defensive positions, and a few other little bits p'raps some Imperial Army.

Doghouse - May 12, 2010 10:51 AM (GMT)
I've got absolutely no idea if I'll be using them in my force at the moment but am aiming to make four each for me and Edd as optional units which I'm hoping will be two Conquerors and two Castellans each. It all depends on whether I can get the hang of casting resin stuff but worse comes to worst I can make them in white metal quite easily enough.

I think we could get away with fielding them as proxies for either terminators or as Magos Explorator suggested attack bikes at a pinch.

As they are a fun historical unit I reckon what might be best is allow them as a 0-1 option but don't count towards the force organisation chart for the purposes of our game. I was originally thinking Heavy Support or Elites but as Edd is going for artillery and my lot are elites heavy I figured this would make them available to both of us without having to lose out on regular stuff.

Use the basic profile and points cost of the sentinel but armed with two close combat weapons and a heavy bolter to count as a Castellan.
This will give it two attacks in close combat rather than the one and I think the sentinel is strength five or six (not sure where my codex is right now...) which is still pretty healthy giving the Castellan three attacks on the charge.

Allow it to be upgraded by swapping one of it's close combat weapons for an autocannon to a Conqueror for say five points and they can be taken in a squadron of 1-4.

That way they're there if we need them and the rules are pretty straight forward enough and gives us the option of a historical option.

malika - May 12, 2010 03:26 PM (GMT)
@Apologist: Could you edit your post with the picture of the robots in it so that it will just show a link to the picture rather than the actual picture? It's size is totally messing up by browser since I've only got a small screen.


QUOTE
Not sure yet I'd certainly like to paint some up, but I wouldn't want to dilute the impact of the forces and what makes them striking will be the differences between their force make-up and the similarities of the models. Plus, since he's doing all the effort for them, I'd feel dead guilty just swooping in and stealing some of his thunder!

True, but the idea of robots on both sides bashing each others' metallic skulls in is just too cool not to have. Besides, the Ultramarines are on the offensive right? So what about the Ultramarines having more offensive robots whilst the Iron Warriors have more defensive ones?

Or is it the other way around? Line-breakers are offensive right? So wait...I thought the story was that the Ultramarines were on their way to Terra but that the Iron Warriors stood in their way or something?

QUOTE
I've got absolutely no idea if I'll be using them in my force at the moment but am aiming to make four each for me and Edd as optional units which I'm hoping will be two Conquerors and two Castellans each. It all depends on whether I can get the hang of casting resin stuff but worse comes to worst I can make them in white metal quite easily enough.

If you're having a hard time casting you should ask Ed (Troll Forged) for some advice, he'll know some tricks to help you out I think! :)





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