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The Great Crusade > Pre-Heresy Background Q&A > Did anyone survive Istvaan III?

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Title: Did anyone survive Istvaan III?


army310 - April 6, 2010 06:48 PM (GMT)
Did anyone survive Isstavan III and if they did what happen to them?

Dargor - April 6, 2010 09:09 PM (GMT)
Apparently,according to Mr Abnett,Loken survived.We dont know if anyone else survived or what happened to those that did yet.

ShroudFilm - April 7, 2010 09:05 AM (GMT)
Aye, unconfirmed but heavily hinted by Mr Abnett - Loken and Rylanor survived.

Iacton - April 7, 2010 02:09 PM (GMT)
I did! ^_^

Tarik Torgaddon - April 7, 2010 05:33 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Iacton @ Apr 7 2010, 03:09 PM)
I did! ^_^

Lucky bastard ;) I lost my head, literally :(

Back to topic, I reckon some Marines other than Loken and the old dreadnought survived. Or at least I hope so, cause my WE captain's fluff depends on it :unsure:

Pacific - April 12, 2010 01:56 PM (GMT)
So Loken survived??

I guess that means we will see what the mk4 PH sponge and bucket looks like if they make a model of him. :rolleyes:

Inquisitor Malaclypse - April 13, 2010 03:54 AM (GMT)
sorry to necro post here, but i think this thread would serve my question:

what was the composition of the forces that were still alive when the HH novels last focused on Istvaan III?

i know, a strange way to ask "who survived Istvaan III", but i don't mean specific characters.

i know Saul Tarvitz is still alive, Ancient Rylanor is still alive, and the last 100 loyalist marines comprised of the Emperor's Children, World Eaters, but were there any Sons of Horus or Death Guard left?

or at least in what book was the passage describing this appear?

interested because i'd love to collect this as an army and see if i can actually put almost 100 marines on the board.

thanks for the help!

Fortronus - April 13, 2010 06:01 AM (GMT)
I'll try to go thought the book and get you the pages but there where some of both Sons of Horus or Death Guard left. DG fighting in and around the bunkers they took and Sons under the city at the very least in the catacombs.

Iron Corsair - April 13, 2010 12:45 PM (GMT)
I actually just finished reading GiF, and there were some SoH with Saul and his 100; Nero Vipus was among them if I remember correctly, and they were NOT in contact with the DG so they did not know if any survived or not.

fritzagelmann - April 13, 2010 05:35 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Inquisitor Malaclypse @ Apr 13 2010, 03:54 AM)
sorry to necro post here, but i think this thread would serve my question:

what was the composition of the forces that were still alive when the HH novels last focused on Istvaan III?

i know, a strange way to ask "who survived Istvaan III", but i don't mean specific characters.

i know Saul Tarvitz is still alive, Ancient Rylanor is still alive, and the last 100 loyalist marines comprised of the Emperor's Children, World Eaters, but were there any Sons of Horus or Death Guard left?

or at least in what book was the passage describing this appear?

interested because i'd love to collect this as an army and see if i can actually put almost 100 marines on the board.

thanks for the help!

They were alive before Horus bombarded the city. its not known how many or who actually survived.

Ancient Rylanor - October 26, 2010 02:37 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (ShroudFilm @ Apr 7 2010, 09:05 AM)
Aye, unconfirmed but heavily hinted by Mr Abnett - Loken and Rylanor survived.

I lived? :D Mr Abnett said so? I have not see this. I have heard about Loken. Is this just speculation based on the knowledge i was in a underground hanger or is their a quote out there?

ShroudFilm - October 26, 2010 07:47 AM (GMT)
Dan has said that Rylanor was "doing something important" which meant that he survived. It's been documented in several interviews etc, and also directly stated at a Q&A session.

nuclearship - October 26, 2010 03:53 PM (GMT)
jep, even without Dan confirming it, in Fulgrim they talked about Rylanor guarding a hangar and why should they talk about that if not for a future plot involving him ;)

I bet for

Ancient Rylanor
Garviel Loken
Nero Vipus
Saul Tarvitz
around 20 Marines? At least some of the 100 (would've been so cool if they would've been 300 *gg*) were crushed by the bombardment

imperialfist13 - February 2, 2011 05:01 PM (GMT)
When Lucius and Eidolon talk about knowing who died they both seem overly cavalier about what Rylanor was doing, an undeerground bunker/warehouse after already surviving the bio weapon and inter legion scrap including Primarchs, iw ould be checking it out.

How does Rylanor know of this bunker?
Where exactly is it stated that Loken survives?

Bombardment like drop pods is not an exact science so maybe the concentration wasnt what it should of been and we know Horus was in a rush, also it would of been a total giveaway when all the traitor started to evacuate as to what was coming next, specially as Tarvitz was commanding so well.

Ancient Rylanor - June 26, 2011 06:48 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (imperialfist13 @ Feb 2 2011, 05:01 PM)
When Lucius and Eidolon talk about knowing who died they both seem overly cavalier about what Rylanor was doing, an undeerground bunker/warehouse after already surviving the bio weapon and inter legion scrap including Primarchs, iw ould be checking it out.

How does Rylanor know of this bunker?
Where exactly is it stated that Loken survives?

Bombardment like drop pods is not an exact science so maybe the concentration wasnt what it should of been and we know Horus was in a rush, also it would of been a total giveaway when all the traitor started to evacuate as to what was coming next, specially as Tarvitz was commanding so well.

Captain Saul Tarvitz orded me to guard the hanger. How Saul found out about it is unclear.

Loken's fate is made clear in Garro: Legion of One.

It seems that the pull back by the traitors was well executed. Tarvitz only realized what was coming right before it happened. I do agree with the Inaccuracy of Orbital bombardment. I though like to think it was with the help of the Emperor that we made. it

Arden Fell - June 26, 2011 07:57 AM (GMT)
Just curious about this, but are we sure that Raylor and the bunker crew are still alive.

I'm just going on Legion Of One here, but Loken has spent his time on Istavan alone that is made pretty clear by his mental breakdown. So if there were survivors in an underground bunker why didnt he know about them. I thought that he was with Saul towards the end of the fighting and they all retreated to the bunker together.

Do we have anything other than Dan's cryptic hint that there are other alive?

Ancient Rylanor - June 26, 2011 10:15 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Arden Fell @ Jun 26 2011, 07:57 AM)
Just curious about this, but are we sure that Raylor and the bunker crew are still alive.

I'm just going on Legion Of One here, but Loken has spent his time on Istavan alone that is made pretty clear by his mental breakdown. So if there were survivors in an underground bunker why didnt he know about them. I thought that he was with Saul towards the end of the fighting and they all retreated to the bunker together.

Do we have anything other than Dan's cryptic hint that there are other alive?

Well, Loken left with Torgodden to confront Lil Horus and Abaddon, right before the end of the war on Isstvan III. I once thought that if Loken lived he would do so by the same way Tarvitz did. I was wrong. It looks like those who were able to make it to the Underground Hanger i was guarding did so with out Loken. Looks like we left him behind for dead and he did his time there the HARD way. We have not been given how any other then Loken makes it.

I am starting to think that Verran might have been one of the WE to make it off Isstvan III. He seemed to me to be a bit familiar with the place in Legion of One.

ShroudFilm - June 26, 2011 12:37 PM (GMT)
IIRC, it is stated (or at least strongly hinted) that Varren had not been to Isstvan III before then.

In the original (outdated) fluff, Varren was one of the crew of the Eisenstein.

Can we not refer to characters in the first person, please. This isn't a roleplaying site. :rolleyes:

Calas Typhon - June 26, 2011 03:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Ancient Rylanor @ Jun 26 2011, 10:15 AM)

I am starting to think that Verran might have been one of the WE to make it off Isstvan III.

I tought Varren got his face ripped off by Angron? Or am I thinking of a differant character.

Pacific - June 26, 2011 04:03 PM (GMT)
Can I ask where Varren's name has been mentioned in the series so far?

Varren was the character name of the WE in the old Horus Heresy (1st edition Epic) background in the game rulebook.

In that story, IIRC, he was the one that escaped off-world to warn the Loyalists of Horus' treachery, along with some other WE. They were flying the Eisenstien, and it is implied that Tarvitz and Garro sacrificed themselves to allow him to escape.

So, as we've already passed those events on Istvaan, I think we can assume that at least that part has been retconned when it was visited by the Horus Heresy series. I guess maybe Graham McNeil or the other guys who were brain storming the early parts of the series thought that an EC character would be more interesting? Who knows! :)


Ancient Rylanor - June 26, 2011 08:25 PM (GMT)
About Verran. I don't think it is clear as to weather he was on Istvaan III or not but i think there are hints in his words. "He says we know full well what happened here." I read that as he was there. I know it could be just as easily he read a report from some other survivor but that's me.

@ Pacific Varren is in Garro: Legion of one. He was one of three Astartes who landed on Istvaan III.

Michaelangelos - June 26, 2011 10:16 PM (GMT)
so can someone make a list of confirmed and maybe survivors?

ShroudFilm - June 26, 2011 10:20 PM (GMT)
You mean, who survived the whole thing?

Confirmed: Garviel Loken.

Possible: Ehrlen, Tarvitz, Rylanor

It's like Order 66 in Star Wars - all the fans want their favourite character to have survived. But for every character that does, you erode the horror of the event.

TBH I was firmly in the anti-Loken surviving camp, until I listened to 'Legion of One'. Now I believe that he should be the ONLY one. Personally.

Michaelangelos - June 26, 2011 10:30 PM (GMT)
how did he actually get out?

why was it only him because im sure other loyalists would join him on the way, i bet he felt bad for torgaddon :(

oh and i know we wont know untill the last books but what happend to little horus, he must have died at some point as there is no 40k mention

ShroudFilm - June 26, 2011 10:37 PM (GMT)
You need to listen to the audiobooks and read the most recent novels.

Arden Fell - June 26, 2011 11:05 PM (GMT)
After listening to Legion of One I was pretty sure that Loken was the only survivor.

Not entirely sure exactly when it is set but there it would appear that he has been there a considerable time.

And there are parts where he is the bowels of the citadel, which I would imagine means that while he has been there he's been looking for the bunker and possibly found what is left of it.


Or may be not.... you'll have to listen to it and make the judgement for your self. :lol:

I for one was glad Loken survived. I get what Shroud is saying about having all the main characters reappearing as survivors would have been a bit lame.

But the first two books focused heavily on Loken as a lead character and I think it did him an injustice to have him just wiped out by an orbital bombardment. Or was it a building falling on him? I tink tht ws it wasn't it?

Sorry but I wasn't as fussed about Torgodden or Tarvitz or Raylanor as they were big characters but we hadn't been so close to them in Horus Rising or False Gods. :unsure:

Michaelangelos - June 26, 2011 11:13 PM (GMT)
Thanks for the help, I will buy it very soon. Oh and I meant loken must of felt sorry for torgaddon.

Pacific - June 27, 2011 03:12 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (ShroudFilm @ Jun 26 2011, 10:20 PM)
You mean, who survived the whole thing?

Confirmed: Garviel Loken.

Possible: Ehrlen, Tarvitz, Rylanor

It's like Order 66 in Star Wars - all the fans want their favourite character to have survived. But for every character that does, you erode the horror of the event.

TBH I was firmly in the anti-Loken surviving camp, until I listened to 'Legion of One'. Now I believe that he should be the ONLY one. Personally.

I've always thought it was a little bit against the core ethos or concept of 40k that he should have survived, a little bit 'Hollywood' if you will, but if Legion of One changes that I might well have to get a download.

Yvraith - June 27, 2011 04:49 AM (GMT)
I could be wrong, but didn't Dorn send some Imp. Fists to Istvaan 3 to confirm Garro's tale?

If so, isn't it possible that they recovered the first batch of survivors?

Loken wasn't found at that time, because he was still healing from his duel with Abaddon and yet to emerge from being buried under half a building....
... finally digging himself free, going crazy and then being recovered by Garro...

Just a thought..... :unsure:

Ancient Rylanor - June 27, 2011 10:27 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Yvraith @ Jun 27 2011, 04:49 AM)
I could be wrong, but didn't Dorn send some Imp. Fists to Istvaan 3 to confirm Garro's tale?

If so, isn't it possible that they recovered the first batch of survivors?

I think the Imp. Fists tried and failed to reach Isstvaan III due to warp storms.

I have my own theory. I think some of the loyalists who were with Tarvitz at the end lived and escaped the planet with the help of what Rylanor was guarding in the underground hanger. They were picked up by someone, im starting to think it might have been the same fleet who rescued Corax from Isstvaan V. That is a major guess btw. Would be a nice twist to the new RG book coming out. We will see.

Confirmed Loyalist survivors of Isstvan III
Loken, Garro, Qruze, 60 ish DG with Garro.

My list of hopeful survivors but unconfirmed.
Tarvitz, Rylanor, Vispus, Varren (confirmed but not sure if he was on Isstvan), and less then 100 assorted SoH, EC, WE, and maybe a stray DG.



@ ShroudFilm: Last time we see Ehrlen he is getting treated like a pig in a butcher shop by a group of WE. I would love if he made it but i think Tarvitz was the last to see him alive.

ShroudFilm - June 27, 2011 10:35 AM (GMT)
AR - aha, ok! That doesn't sound too good for him then! :D I'm re-reading 'Galaxy in Flames' at work next week, so I shall reacquaint myself with poor Mr Ehrlen then!

QUOTE (Yvraith @ Jun 27 2011, 04:49 AM)
I could be wrong, but didn't Dorn send some Imp. Fists to Istvaan 3 to confirm Garro's tale?

...and this discussion must cease.

Vredesbyrd - October 28, 2012 01:35 PM (GMT)
As far as I'm aware this isn't actually threadomancy as its adding something pertinent and interesting.

Just perusing a copy of HH: Betrayal and I've come across the entry for Section Leader Crysos Morturg, the Black Shield. He's a Loyalist in the Death of Isstvan III and in his colour text it mentions him surviving the 'atrocity of Isstvan III'. pg 266.

Algrim Whitefang - October 28, 2012 08:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Vredesbyrd @ Oct 28 2012, 01:35 PM)
As far as I'm aware this isn't actually threadomancy as its adding something pertinent and interesting.

Just perusing a copy of HH: Betrayal and I've come across the entry for Section Leader Crysos Morturg, the Black Shield. He's a Loyalist in the Death of Isstvan III and in his colour text it mentions him surviving the 'atrocity of Isstvan III'. pg 266.

Vredesbyrd is correct. The aforementioned Death Guard Loyalist survivor is featured prominently throughout the various sections of the "Horus Heresy Betrayal" book giving his testimony to the Terran War Council on the tragic events that occurred during the Isstvan III Atrocity. The book also makes mention of only a "handful" of survivors, but unfortunately we are not told how many actual survivors there were. One can assume that there were Loyalist survivors from all four Legions (Sons of Horus, Death Guard, Emperor's Children & World Eaters) though the latter, there would have been very few, since the majority were so incensed by the betrayal by their Primarch Angron, that they chose to face the Red Angel and his 50 Companies of World Eaters in a bloody, suicidal one-sided battle that saw they death of those Loyalist World Eaters that fought it.

Algrim Whitefang - October 28, 2012 08:13 PM (GMT)
Methinks we'll have to wait for the forthcoming "Garro: Sword of Truth" to come out to answer some of these burning questions. From the Black Library website: ...Nathaniel Garro, knight errant and agent of the Sigillite, returns from the battlefields of Calth to find a new mission already waiting for him – a ragged fleet of Space Marines from several Legions lingers at the edge of the Terran system. With the presence of World Eaters and Emperor’s Children causing concern among the loyalist defenders and drawing a grim parallel with his own frantic flight, Garro must look beneath the obvious if he is to determine friend from foe...

Survivors from the Isstvan III Atrocity perhaps? ;)

Ancient Rylanor - November 7, 2012 07:46 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Algrim Whitefang @ Oct 28 2012, 08:13 PM)

Survivors from the Isstvan III Atrocity perhaps?  ;)

Yes for sure. The story features Mesa Varren, who we know from The Flight of the Eisenstein, was at Isstvan III. Varren is talked about two times in the book as present for the war and a Known Loyalist. Also Garro, Tarvitz and Verran have been said to be loyalist survivors of Isstvan III from the very first time the Horus Heresy was shared with us. I say that Tarvitz' crew perhaps with Crysos Morturg, escaped vie the underground hanger Ancient Rylanor was guarding. Around a 100 Astartes were with Tarvitz in the ruin of the Warsingers temple, as the Bombs fell on the city. I think the Traitors, falsely thought they were in the Governors Palace, were they had fought their latest "Last stand". I also think there was something about the Temple itself that helped in their surviving the bombs. I like to think of it as Divine Intervention. They were in a church asking for a miracle to save their lives. The account of this part of the war is detailed in the Collected Visions. Perhaps the temple had some sort of shield built in, or the Astartes would go on to form the heart of the Grey Knights manifested the Shrouding for the first time.

ShroudFilm - November 8, 2012 11:41 AM (GMT)
Having commissioned and edited 'Sword of Truth', and knowing the full backstory of "Crysos Morturg" from working with Alan Bligh... I won't be able to offer any more to this conversation for now.

Suffice to say, from my supremely informed position, I am not changing my assertion that no loyalists survived the final bombardment of Isstvan III.

Ancient Rylanor - November 8, 2012 05:49 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ShroudFilm @ Nov 8 2012, 11:41 AM)
Having commissioned and edited 'Sword of Truth', and knowing the full backstory of "Crysos Morturg" from working with Alan Bligh... I won't be able to offer any more to this conversation for now.

Suffice to say, from my supremely informed position, I am not changing my assertion that no loyalists survived the final bombardment of Isstvan III.

No one survived? What about Loken? Even if I'm flat wrong about Verran and Tarvitz, we know at least one lived though the final bombardment of Isstvan III.

Brother Handro - November 8, 2012 06:42 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Ancient Rylanor @ Nov 8 2012, 05:49 PM)
QUOTE (ShroudFilm @ Nov 8 2012, 11:41 AM)
Having commissioned and edited 'Sword of Truth', and knowing the full backstory of "Crysos Morturg" from working with Alan Bligh... I won't be able to offer any more to this conversation for now.

Suffice to say, from my supremely informed position, I am not changing my assertion that no loyalists survived the final bombardment of Isstvan III.

No one survived? What about Loken? Even if I'm flat wrong about Verran and Tarvitz, we know at least one lived though the final bombardment of Isstvan III.

It could imply that any loyalists may have already left the surface of Isstvan III before the final bombardment.




BigWill - November 8, 2012 07:53 PM (GMT)
Clever this one

ShroudFilm - November 8, 2012 10:44 PM (GMT)
Loken was buried beneath the surface and was left as mad as a brush. Trust me, that reasoning will not be used again with any other characters...




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