Title: Chaos IA ideas
Motherplucker - March 2, 2010 08:52 AM (GMT)
Well, due to unfortunate money shortages, I'm not going to be able to go forward with my plans for a Praetorian based IA force. However, I've racked my head and come up with something else, a way to get 2 armies in one if you will.
Now BEFORE the assaults of "Not fluff", "Didn't exist", "Foolish berk" let me state my reasoning.
1. Blood Pact are nice for 40k as they are (in my mind) real anti-heroes, and they're easily convertible.
2. Who's to say the Blood Pact are unique in their styling? I doubt with over ten thousand years to play with there was never a similar force of Khornate, disciplined warriors with a strong military ethos.
With that in mind I've decided that some of my old Cadians and soon to be added new Cadians will be converted up. I'm thinking to begin simple initially, shaving off Aquilas, red and metallic black armour (subject to change when I re-read their description again), and then enter the scary world of GS. I've found no heads to do them Justice. To keep myself focused and avoid boredom I'll update here sporadically. I'll be looking for some C&C (the more critical the better) and tips on modelling them.
Well, no time like free time, let's get heretical!
ShroudFilm - March 2, 2010 09:11 AM (GMT)
I would say check out Titus Pullo's army, but the pictures have all vanished... :rolleyes:
The Pig Iron heads are a great place to start.
Motherplucker - March 2, 2010 09:31 AM (GMT)
1st, glad to see you're back lad, though I didn't comment I wished you the best.
Back OT, Aye I had a gander at those, I'm particularly liking the Militia heads for the helmets (quasi russian/german WW2, LOVE IT!) but for now I want to push myself as far as converting and sculpting goes, so for the first squad I'm going to stick with the Cadian plastics with some extra bits I've found. I like the idea that no two fellers have to look alike, it opens up a world of kit-bashing :D
I also had a look at the West-wind fellers, but they don't show side-on views, and I don't like not knowing about the bits entirely before I buy them.
Also, I did try his army, but he hath succumbed to the vile Photobucket curse! Shame as from the comments he received they would've looked mint!
How goes your Fire-cultist fellers? Any progress?
Iron Corsair - March 2, 2010 02:17 PM (GMT)
Sounds like a great idea, Motherplucker! Can't wait to look at some.
Motherplucker - March 2, 2010 03:43 PM (GMT)
Quick update guys, I bought a fresh box of Cadians today and got to work. I should have the entire squad done by tonight and hopefully have some pictures for you as well.
Also, I think I've found my heads of choice, found an army that used the Maxmini Fallen Legionaire's heads on deviantArt and was shocked at how good they were. Here's a pic:
'til tonight then! :D
Magos Explorator - March 2, 2010 05:52 PM (GMT)
The MaxMini stuff's good; I think those were sculpted with a definite nod to Blood Pact.
Motherplucker - March 2, 2010 07:01 PM (GMT)
Right guys, I promised you pics didn't I?
I took these earlier whilst my friend with a camera was still here. Warning you now, this post is image heavy.
Firstly, Sergeant O'Rourke
A close up of the Bolt-pistol
O'Leary's unfortunate victim
Radio Specialist O'Sullivan
There are a few others, but there's nothing drastically different. These were taken around the afternoon, since then, I've made my first foray into sculpting, I'll have pics of that whenever the camera returns :rolleyes:
Points to note conversion wise: I removed most of the winged skull icons, I changed the shape of the helmet (always HATED that little box on the back!) and obviously Pacter O'Leary in general ;) Quite proud of him. I know there are mold lines but this is just a test squad to see what I could do with the cadian plastics alone. As it turns out, very little. Apart from some odd weaponry and heads, they all pretty much resemble Cadians. I'll be using the Maxmini heads in future.
Well, anyway, C&C is warmly welcomed and encouraged, let me know what you think!
ahriman - March 2, 2010 11:13 PM (GMT)
Awesome models dude, loving some of the heads, are they from the space wolves box??
Also, just an idea, the winged skull icons; if you simply took off the wings then it would leave you a pretty macabre skull that would set the chaos scene abit more, and add to the khornate-ness.
Motherplucker - March 2, 2010 11:21 PM (GMT)
That's actually a great idea Ahriman!
Also, yes, they're Space Wolf scout heads, nice n' beardy :)
I like the sort of barbarity they lend to the model, but, to me, they don't scream blood pact sadly :(
I've done some more work on these guys, some have sort of chainmaille face masks, and all of them have had a little added bling to the shoulder pads, they're definitely starting to look more Pacty, unfortunately, the camera is nowhere to be found (nor it's owner) so an update will have to wait for tomorrow maybe.
A quick question to you gents: in the fluff, these guys are described as wearing a uniform and armour the colour of blood. Now, whilst the idea of an all red army intrigues me (those pesky blood angels!) I'm struggling to see how I can get the seperate elements to stand out. I thought maybe 'Ardcoating the armour to give it a shiny effect next to matt fatigues. Do you think this would work? Do you have another suggestion?
Cheers for the support thus far!
EDIT: Got the camera again!
Right, this is my first attempt at sculpting in ANY way, so you'll have to forgive inconsistencies, shoddy work (albeit that was intentional :P ), and fingerprints.
The Khorne glyph was simply a case of layering green stuff over the pad, and then cutting into it with a craft knife. The overlapping plates on the other pad started as an accident, but I thought it added a certain something. The "chainmaille" is a stab (literally!) at getting a mask of some kind on some models, not entirely happy, but with the heads I'll be getting it's less of an issue.
Anyhoo, C&C as usual, I personally think they're starting to look a bit more Blood Pacty!
Motherplucker - March 3, 2010 10:53 PM (GMT)
Anyway, today I completed my test model for the colour scheme. Here's some pics for you:
And there we have it so far! Apologies for the sizing, but Photobucket doesn't seem to want to play the game ¬_¬
Personally, I'm not entirely happy with the fatigues, but I don't know how to get some definition with red gore, and I am most certainly NOT highliting up to blood red! Evil colour, like my mother's fingernails! Any ideas?
The armour though isn't bad, mechrite red, flesh wash ink wash for definition and 'Ardcoat for shininess. I'm glad I did the wash, because I don't think the symbol would have been as clear otherwise. I'm wondering wether to use the brass bitz from FW next time though, are there one small enough for the cadian pads?
C&C as usual guys, cheers for the tips and support thus far!
Magos Explorator - March 4, 2010 08:02 AM (GMT)
Nice scheme. If you'd like some easy definition for the fatigues, perhaps apply a second coat of red for a more even coverage and then a thin wash of Devlan Mud or Badab Black when dry?
Motherplucker - March 4, 2010 09:32 AM (GMT)
I already started doing several coats of red gore after this one, didn't even consider the washes to be honest (die-hard ink fan as you can tell from the face :rolleyes: ). Is there not a red wash that might do the job? Or would that not be clear enough? I'd like the red to be a bit, well, redder, since red gore seems to have this slightly purple hue :huh:
Cheers for the tips!
The Red Sorcerer - March 4, 2010 12:13 PM (GMT)
The shoulderpads are actuallt pretty good for a first GS attempt! The 'chainmail' on the faces, however, looks less impressive. There used to be a good tutorial on the GW site for this, but it seems to have vanished - this
might help, though I'm sure there are more detailed chainmail turtorials out there. Essentially, you create lines of holes while pushing the needle/toothpick or whatever up for the first line, down for the next, etc etc... the picture in the link shows this well.
I reckon that you may be handicapping yourself by not using blood red on the fatigues... I'd use it sparingly as a final highlight to help get them looking a bit more red. The methood I use for my red is to undercoat with red gore/blood red (approx. 50-50), wash with thinned down red gore with a drop of badab black or black ink, then highlight with the base colour (blood red/red gore mix) then finally with straight blood red. Seems to get a decent depth to the red without it looking like fingernails! :D Anyway, you can see the results in my log. If you outright refuse to highlight up to blood red then do a blood red/red gore mix as your final highlight.
If you are set on going for an entirely red finish then I agree that shiny armour flat fatigues is probably the way to go. However, seeing as your army is supposed to be a 'similar' formation to the Blood Pact in 30K, I'd say you don't have to follow their uniform slavishly. I reckon they would look good with black armour/helmets and red fatigues myself.
The Space Wolf heads help to add a bit of 'feral-ness' to the minis. Another soource that you should consider is the Empire Flagellants set from Warhammer Fantasy - all sorts of nice heads and details, and I've seen some very nice traitor guard minis that make good use of the parts.
Motherplucker - March 4, 2010 01:50 PM (GMT)
Thanks a lot for the tips Red Sorcerer!
I'm glad you like the pads! They're a bit hit and miss, and there's a definite improvement as you go from the first one I did to the last. Ta very much for that tutorial as well! I'll try that on the next batch I'm working on (Platoon command, pics to follow later tonight). With regards to the red, I finally broke down after trying the washes and used blood red. To try and avoid the colour being to bright I sort of drybrushed the colour on, worked a treat in both reddening the faigues and adding definition. I also avoided the dreaded fingernail syndrome :rolleyes: .
I did think of making the armour black for a while, but I wondered how I'd get the glyphs to stand out. I also like some of the flaggelant heads, especially the bald scarred ones! Will get some next month when the money restocks :P
Cheers for all the tips and input so far guys!
Magos Explorator - March 4, 2010 08:39 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Motherplucker @ Mar 4 2010, 09:32 AM)|
|I already started doing several coats of red gore after this one, didn't even consider the washes to be honest (die-hard ink fan as you can tell from the face :rolleyes: ). Is there not a red wash that might do the job? Or would that not be clear enough? I'd like the red to be a bit, well, redder, since red gore seems to have this slightly purple hue :huh: |
Cheers for the tips!
Baal Red might work, although I'd consider using a brown wash, or mixing some red and brown together if you're worried about not having a red finish. My Epic Eldar use Baal Red and Devlan mud to shade (after highlights up through to orange):
ShroudFilm - March 4, 2010 09:06 PM (GMT)
I like the scratched-in Khorne symbol idea... but does that really need GS? You could literally just cut it into the existing pad for a much less rounded look.
Good work though, very nice characterisation of the Pacters.
Motherplucker - March 4, 2010 09:46 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (ShroudFilm @ Mar 4 2010, 09:06 PM)|
| I like the scratched-in Khorne symbol idea... but does that really need GS? You could literally just cut it into the existing pad for a much less rounded look.|
Good work though, very nice characterisation of the Pacters.
I used GS for it because
A- I want to get some experience in using the stuff,
B- It's a whole heap easier to cut into curing GS than rigid plastic and
C- I like the rounded look, though like I said earlier, I may look into the etched brass from FW to see if the symbols come small enough.
Anyway, quick update, I finished a Platoon command squad today, but no camera means no pics for now :rolleyes: . I tried a different technique for the right (as the model faces you) shoulder pad to make it look less bulky, I simply placed a single layer of GS onto it and cut away the bottom half. I'll have to wait and see how it goes after painting wether there's enough definition. On an aside, I REALLY like the command sprues for Cadians! Little to no flash, and what there is is easily filed away, the arms actually fit the models properly AND there's that awesome scarred head option. God I hope they re-do the standard sprue, if for no other reason that to allow the arms to ACTUALLY FIT!
Pics by tomorrow guys! Thanks for the help so far!
The Red Sorcerer - March 5, 2010 11:43 AM (GMT)
As an aside, the Forgeworld symbols will definitely fit. If you look at the pics on their site and consider the actual size of the sprue from the desciption, the smaller symbols are definitely suitably sized. I got a few of the small brass etch aquilas included in a trade a while back, and they are tiny - small enough to use on Epic models.
Battle Brother Loken - March 11, 2010 03:18 PM (GMT)
I am doing the same project but with alot more armour.
It will be interesting how you do yours as i am going for all very dark colors