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The Great Crusade > Pre-Heresy Background Q&A > pre-heresy raven guard armour


Title: pre-heresy raven guard armour


stormbird1 - January 5, 2010 07:34 PM (GMT)
I've been looking into pre-hersey Ravenguard. I need to get a better idea as to what marks of armour they had available to them.

Also do we have a timeline as to what marks were available to what legions during the hersey?

ShroudFilm - January 5, 2010 08:03 PM (GMT)
No, not canonical anyway. It's still a grey area.

Just assume that ALL legions had access to MK1 to MK4 before the Heresy. Limit the amount of MK4 a little for legions who were not on the front lines.

stormbird1 - January 5, 2010 10:56 PM (GMT)
When was Mk 6 armour issued? Was the Ravenguard always at the front?

Gagoc TheAncient - January 5, 2010 11:10 PM (GMT)
Mark 6 was a Heresy-age issue.
Though since the Mk 6 Corvus, or Beakie helmet was a development of the Mk 4 helmet it is possible that it is just Pre-Heresy.

This article, and other versions found elsewhere on the net, should give you a better, but not concrete, idea of when the various marks were introduced.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Crus...hp?showtopic=23

The Red Sorcerer - January 6, 2010 11:37 AM (GMT)
Gagoc, I reckon you should remove the section on Mk I/II hybrid armour from that article. You made a nice model, but its entirely non-canon - seeing as the rest of the article is drawn from canon sources, it can probably get a bit confusing for people.

As for a timeline for armour introduction, this post is my best attempt at nailing down a timeline that fits with all the information given. The gist of it is:
Mk I to IV - pre-heresy
Mk V - beginning of the heresy (before Istvaan V)
Mk VI - mid to late heresy (before the fall of Mars)
Mk VII - late heresy (pre-Siege of Terra, Loyalists only)

For the Ravenguard, they would have been issued with Mk V before the Dropsite Massacre. We don't really know in detail what happened to them after that, but given the fact they were not involved in fighting around Terra, thery are unlikely to have recieved resupply with Mk VI, certainly not in any significant numbers - particularly given the fact their casualties meant they were almost finished as a fighting force at Istvaan.


VESPASIAN - January 20, 2010 08:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (stormbird1 @ Jan 5 2010, 07:34 PM)
I've been looking into pre-hersey Ravenguard. I need to get a better idea as to what marks of armour they had available to them.

Also do we have a timeline as to what marks were available to what legions during the hersey?

Great question stormbird1! Its great to see someone else who is failing for the charms of the Raven guard.

There are some interesting details about the armour used by the Legions in The Kaban Project (the Mechanicum story to be found exclusively in Horus Heresy: Collected Visions).

At the time of the story (in the story Horus' Terminator armour is waiting and about to be dispatched to the Warmaster in the Isstvan Ststem; which gives us a rough timepoint) the general issue of Mark IV armour is only half complete.

In addition the Mechanicum are experiencing some difficulties in getting 'more traditionally minded' Legions to relinquish their Armorum Ferrum (Mark III). We are told that this is because these Legions wish to keep the armour, as it is the most visually brutal of all the Astartes armour patterns. Some Legions relished this aspect and want to keep the suits as a uniform for ceremonial guards or speartip assault units. (The Kaban Project, Page. 220)

So some Legions would not have even had Mark IV armour at this point; or at least limited quantaties of this armour.

This situation was then further exacebated by the Dark Mechanicum's control of the main armour production facilities on Mars which resulted in the Warmaster's forces receiving the supplies of the Mark IV armour; whilst those who were known to support the Emperor did not:

QUOTE (Mechanicum @ Page 114)
'...the Legions without supply problems are those acting in direct support of the Warmaster.'


When the Imperial Fists raided the aforementioned armour manufactorums, only over 12,000 suits of Mark IV armour were recovered by Sigismund at Mondus Occulum (Mechanicum, Page 369.)

With regards to the Raven Guard specifically we have information regarding the armour that they used from the Massacre of Isstavan V onwards:

QUOTE (Index Astartes Vol IV @ Page 29)
After the massacre on Isstavan V, the Raven Guard had to do with older armour and equipment


So the Ravenguard may have had access to some suits of Mark IV armour-but to exactly what extent-is unknown. However as we have seen some Legions were still eager to keep hold of their Mark III plate-and the Raven Guard may have been amongst those Legions. But what is certain however, is that the Ravenguard had to use older Marks of armour and equipment after Isstavan V

The Red Sorcerer - January 21, 2010 01:10 PM (GMT)
Had forgotten that 'older armour' ref, good catch VESP! That certainly suggests they wouldn't have had access to anything after Mk IV at least until the end of the Heresy.

Mind you, I doubt the Raven Guard were big fans of Mk III armour - its 'heavy armour but limited mobility' aspect doesn't really fit in with their highly mobile way of waging war. So while they may have used it, I suspect they wouldn't have been one of the Legions resisting resupply with Mk IV because they preferred Mk III. Of course, Horus' followers control of where the armour was sent could well have meant they recieved it in limited numbers.


VESPASIAN - January 23, 2010 12:08 PM (GMT)
Thanks Red! You make good points about the Mark III armour.

The Raven Guard's use of older armour marks, is somthing that is still prevalent in the current Warhammer 40,000 timeline. This practice perhaps underlines the true extent of the shortages during the Heresy; but equally it is also demonstrates how a practice which was born of adversity transformed into a practice that celebrated the exploits of the Primarch, and aspired to gain his qualities:

QUOTE (Index Astartes Vol. 4 @ Page 29)
The resources were simply not available to re-equip them and even today there is a higher percentage of ancient suits amongst the Chapter than most others. The owners of these suits view themselves as blessed by the Primarch and fight to prove themselves his equal.


Interestingly as an aside; the forthcoming Imperial Armour book, is going to have the Raven Guard in it-including a Background section and a Colour Profile Spread-so hopefully it will provide some further insights into the Legion's history, organisation and colour schemes...oh and hopefully their use of older marks of armour.

stormbird1 - January 23, 2010 09:47 PM (GMT)
Thanks for all the replies. You have given me some insight to where i was lost. If you have any other info or ideas please let me know. Again thanks.




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