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Title: Grey Knights Foundation Date
Description: When were the Grey Knights founded?


Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - February 26, 2009 08:05 PM (GMT)
Does anyone know exactly when the Grey Knight Chapter 666 (the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus) was founded? There is a hint in the Daemonhunters Codex that it was formed during the Great Crusade or shortly after (this seems likely as in TFOTE HH series book, Malcador the Sigilite of Terra invites Nathaniel Garro and Iacton Qruze to set up the Inquisition).

Magos Explorator - February 26, 2009 11:05 PM (GMT)
It has not been revealed.

Itkovian - February 26, 2009 11:10 PM (GMT)
It could have been just after the heresy or after the scouring which lasted many decades. It certainly seems more likely to have occured afterwards, considering the sad state the imperium was in at the time...

VESPASIAN - February 26, 2009 11:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror @ Feb 26 2009, 08:05 PM)
Does anyone know exactly when the Grey Knight Chapter 666 (the Chamber Militant of the Ordo Malleus) was founded? There is a hint in the Daemonhunters Codex that it was formed during the Great Crusade or shortly after (this seems likely as in TFOTE HH series book, Malcador the Sigilite of Terra invites Nathaniel Garro and Iacton Qruze to set up the Inquisition).

The exact date has yet to be revealed. However the latest Codex: Space Marines gives a tantalising possibility-especially to all of us Pre-Heresy enthusiasts:

QUOTE (Codex: Space Marines @ Page 41)
The history of the Grey Knights' inception is not a matter of record and even their inclusion in the Second Founding is debatable. There are hints in the Adeptus Terra's vaults that the Chapter was actually created by the Emperor in secret, somtime during the Great Crusade.


So maybe during the Great Crusade...we shall have to wait and see what happens in the novels. ;) :ph43r:

lord_caldera - February 27, 2009 07:05 AM (GMT)
I would think that as chapter 666 they would be maybe fourth founding or later? The second founding would have made 20-30 new chapters plus the legion chapters, as there was a distinct lack of Marines after the wars. That high founding number makes me believe that they are relatively new compared to many chapters, especially as they are a chapter only and not a legion, as even the Custodes were considered a legion. Although I could be mistaken, the Inquisition/Emperor may have been like "f*** it, I'm skipping a bunch of numbers to make it sound Old Terra superstitious-y."

Magos Explorator - February 27, 2009 08:23 AM (GMT)
We know that numbers are not always assigned chronologically to Chapters, and that numbers may be re-used when a Chapter is destroyed.

The Custodes were not considered a Legion.

lord_caldera - February 27, 2009 05:41 PM (GMT)
Alright sorry about that misinformation. I don't know a ton about the Custodes.

Magos Explorator - February 27, 2009 06:12 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (lord_caldera @ Feb 27 2009, 05:41 PM)
Alright sorry about that misinformation. I don't know a ton about the Custodes.

That's ok; I don't think any of us know that much! :)

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - February 27, 2009 06:27 PM (GMT)
Thank you guys. I was thinking about a Pre-Heresy Grey Knights Army, but I wasn't sure about the date that they were founded.

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - February 27, 2009 06:42 PM (GMT)
Looks like I will not be doing the army after all.

deadpool2345 - February 27, 2009 08:32 PM (GMT)
jus do custodes and use them as grey knights.
they are the closest you could get ;)

DP

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - February 28, 2009 10:43 AM (GMT)
Good idea ;)

There was a WD, a while ago where a guy used that.

deadpool2345 - February 28, 2009 10:54 AM (GMT)
got that somewhere.

if i can find it ill scan the pictures in and post em ^_^

lord_caldera - February 28, 2009 07:18 PM (GMT)
Probably Dave Taylor's sexy Custodes. I looked around the various GW sites but I think the last of them is finally down thanks to their "improvements". So much beautiful material erased... :(

Vredesbyrd - February 28, 2009 07:31 PM (GMT)
You'll be meaning the ones found towards the end of this PAGE.

deadpool2345 - February 28, 2009 07:50 PM (GMT)
yeah
theyre awesome
DP

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - March 1, 2009 12:04 PM (GMT)
I know. Aren't they awesome? They are from WD Issue #322 (October 2006),but I can't find any online pictures of them.

deadpool2345 - March 1, 2009 05:06 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror @ Mar 1 2009, 12:04 PM)
I know. Aren't they awesome?

Yes, that's what I just said......


:P




Dp

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - March 1, 2009 05:26 PM (GMT)
Woops.... :P

Battle Brother Loken - March 1, 2009 05:58 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (lord_caldera @ Feb 28 2009, 07:18 PM)
Probably Dave Taylor's sexy Custodes. I looked around the various GW sites but I think the last of them is finally down thanks to their "improvements". So much beautiful material erased... :(

the man left the buisness
GW fired him from what i heard so finidng his stuff on their site would be impossible i think

lord_caldera - March 1, 2009 08:41 PM (GMT)
That sucks, I always loved his ridiculous projects. I meant though that since the revamp of the US site and now, it appears, all of the sites that I can read to some degree, all of the old painting and modelling tuts and showcases are gone. I don't see why they couldn't just move all those fantastic articles into the new sites instead of deleting them. Sorry about ranting there I loved the old stuff.

But on topic yeah the Grey Knights are almost certainly a postheresy organization. The speculation about Garro and the nonexistence of a preheresy Inquisition force shows it.

Gagoc TheAncient - March 1, 2009 09:20 PM (GMT)
It has been inferred that at least parts of the Inquisition existed during the Great Crusade in an unofficial form. It was in the IA article for the Thousand Sons.

So maybe there was an unofficial organisation which fought the power of the warp, that acted as a proto-GK. They may even have been called the Grey Knights, as the name had to come from somewhere!

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - March 2, 2009 08:01 PM (GMT)
It is possible, considering what happened with the surviving loyalist marines and Malcador the Sigilite. That point could be seen as post-heresy technically because the Heresy had just about started.

Whitehorn - March 3, 2009 10:03 AM (GMT)
I think at this point the Pre-Heresy BL team have only really begun to delve into giving the formation some information. Due to the nature of these books, some things have changed or 'retconned' in order to explore topics that were previously left vague or insubstantial. Writing 'backwards' has that issue :P

DaemonlordAbraxes - March 8, 2009 12:23 AM (GMT)
You can find pics of the Custodes on the canadian gamesworkshop website if you look up Warhammer 40K on GOOGLE IMAGES

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - March 8, 2009 10:56 AM (GMT)
@ Gagoc: the reason the Grey Knights are called that is because they didn't paint their armour as a sign of purity, so it remained ceramite grey.

@DaemonAbraxes: I have seen these before, but they are different to the ones that I mentioned were in WD#322 Magazine. And you can kill what you can't catch by shooting it... :P

DaemonlordAbraxes - March 8, 2009 03:37 PM (GMT)
Ok. And I know that you can kill what you can't catch with a gun but it's a quote from one of my friends, when we was playin some game (can't remember probably Super Smash Bros. Brawl, somethin like that.) :lol:

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - March 9, 2009 06:39 PM (GMT)
Righto, fair enough!

DaemonlordAbraxes - March 11, 2009 08:54 PM (GMT)
Ya what i say and the quotes i get from my friend give off that vibe sometimes (mainly the quotes of me friend :lol: )

Gagoc TheAncient - March 12, 2009 12:33 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror @ Mar 8 2009, 11:56 AM)
@ Gagoc: the reason the Grey Knights are called that is because they didn't paint their armour as a sign of purity, so it remained ceramite grey.

Source please!

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - March 12, 2009 05:23 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Gagoc TheAncient @ Mar 12 2009, 12:33 AM)
QUOTE (Uzthizzar @ Librarian-Sorceror,Mar 8 2009, 11:56 AM)
@ Gagoc: the reason the Grey Knights are called that is because they didn't paint their armour as a sign of purity, so it remained ceramite grey.

Source please!

The Daemonhunter Codex!

Talonclaw - March 13, 2009 07:26 PM (GMT)
Aure you sure? Hang on, I'll go have a look.

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - March 28, 2009 11:13 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Talonclaw @ Mar 13 2009, 07:26 PM)
Aure you sure? Hang on, I'll go have a look.

Outcome?

ShroudFilm - January 31, 2011 03:49 PM (GMT)
This thread must now be locked until the new GK codex is released.

The Red Sorcerer - April 19, 2011 01:52 PM (GMT)
Well, the GK Codex is out now, and has some good info on the Grey Knights and the Inquisition. So I've picked this thread out of the three (similar) threads to collate the information. So, here goes!
QUOTE (Collected Visions)
Before Malcador the Sigillite ascended the Golden Throne he had one last duty to preform. As he stood before the Emperor he was accompanied by a group of 12 hooded attendants. Malcador looked up to the Emperor and at the machine to which he was bound.

'Sire, when last we met you commanded me to gather together a group of people whose loyalty to you and to the Imperium was unquestioning. I have worked long and hard to find those I thought would siut. I have personally overseen every aspect of the exhaustive tests to which they have been subjected and can vouch for their character, loyalty and strength of mind. They have many skills and will serve you well. Malcador gestured to the hooded figures behind him, as he did so four of them stepped forward and knelt before the Emperor. The Emperor nodded an acknowledgement of their show of fealty to him.

'Sire, these others are known to you. Each of them is a Space Marine. They have cast aside their allegiance to Primarch and Legion who have sided with Horus and pledged themselves anew to you, their Emperor and father. I have chosen these eight since allied to their unflinching loyalty, they are each blessed with paranormal skills, kept dormant in respect of your previous commands. However these skills are most apt in combating the horrors that have recently emerged from the warp and I know that they will be needed in the coming years.'

'Malcador you have judged well, these eight Space Marines do indeed have a vital role to play in the future of the Imperium, though veiled in secrecy will they be.'

Thats the bit about the 12 gathered by Malcador that we already knew. The new GK codex states outright wat was already hinted - the 8 marines founded the Grey Knights, while the remainder formed the nucleus for the Inquisition:
QUOTE (Codex:Grey Knights)
In the stern silence the Emperor surveyed the robed figures that Malcador had brought before him, and saw that his faithful servant had done well. Of the twelve, four were lords and administrators posessed of inquisitive nature and unyealding strength of mind. The other eight were space marines whose abilities were as peerless as their dedication to the Emperor. Some hailed from Legions that had abandoned the Emperor's light in favour of Horus' dark promises, but these brothers had never lost their loyalty and had fought the heresy from within. Fulsome in his approval of the selection, the Emperor bade Malcador proceed with the next stage of his plan.

The four lords left to lay the framework for the Inquisition - that mighty and secretive organisation charged with keeping watch over all arms of the Imperium - while Malcador took the eight space marines to the moon of Titan. Through sorcerous means, the Sigillite had long ago shielded the moon from the sight and deeds of loyalists and traitors alike. There the eight Space Marines discovered a Fortress Monastry prepared for them... within the fortress walls they would find everything necessary to create a new army of space marines - the Grey Knights.

A new and interesting twist, however - their fortress on Titan was hidden within the Warp during the final period of the Horus Heresy, enabling them to be shielded from Horus' invasion of the Sol system, and they emerged as a full Chapter (as we all know, time flows strangely in the Warp ;) ) during the Second Founding:
QUOTE (Grey Knight Codex)
Titan finally returned to orbit during the anarchy of the Second Founding. Time had flowed differently in the warp, and Titan had endured a measure of years far greater than that of the mortal world. So it was that a Chapter that had entered the warp composed of a mere eight Space Martines and hundreds upon hundreds of untrained recruits, emerged with a full complement of one thousand fully trained Battle-Brothers.

So, the new Chapter was secretively included in the Second Founding. This snippet is particularly interesting as it indicates there were FAR more Chapters created as part of the Second Founding than had been hinted before - the Apocrypha of Skaros has the most listed, and is less than 100 as far as I remember, with 33 successors listed for the Ultramarines. However, now it appears there were over 400 successor Chapters formed from the Legions, new support for the 'large Legion numbers' camp:
QUOTE (Codex:Grey Knights)
At the time, the mighty Space Marine Legions were in the process of being separated into Chapters according to the precepts of the Codex Astartes. Much of the process of the Second Founding was being carried out at the direction of the newly founded Inquisition........ it was a simple task for them to include the Grey Knights among the growing roster of space marine Chapters, bestowing upon them the designation Chapter 666 - an oddity, as at the time, there were barely four hundred space marine chapters commissioned.

And we have, for completeness, the background from the Thorian Sourcebook on how the original four proto-Inquisitors split and the Inquisition was formed:
QUOTE (Thorian Sourcebook)
In the dark days that followed Horus' invasion of Terra and the Emperor's internment in the Golden Throne, the empire he had created was reeling in the aftermath of the civil war and the Emperor's ascension. Four individuals, trusted servants of the Emperor during the building of his galactic empire, gathered together to discuss what was to happen. They were divided in opinion, with two believing that the fledgling Imperium could not survive without the Emperor to directly lead Humanity, while the other two were adamant that the Emperor has ascended to a higher plane and that it was folly to interfere with the course of events as they had unfolded.

The two resurrectionists, known only as Promeus and Moriana, left Terra to begin their quest of bringing back the Emperor, while the two that remained acted quickly to establish themselves with the newly formed Senatorum Imperialis. Known to the Primarchs as loyal servants, these two began to lay the plans for the formation of an organisation that would combat the efforts of the two dissidents. Thus were the seeds of the Inquisition itself sown.

With the backing of the Primarchs, the two first Inquisitors made themselves known to the High Lords and began to recruit likeminded individuals from amongst the adepts and warriors on Terra. Their dream of an organisation dedicated to the protection of the Emperor would not be realised in their lifetimes, even extended as they were by arcane technologies, and the Inquisition as it is seen today did not fully come in to existence until the 32nd millennium

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - April 26, 2011 11:39 AM (GMT)
I only just got back on here again and noticed this; thanks Red Sorceror!

So of the eight loyalist Astartes, who do you reckon they are?
We have:
- Garro (Death Guard)
- Iacton Qruze (Sons of Horus)
- Loken? (Sons of Horus)

NB: it doesn't say that there was one from each traitor Legion, but it does say some were from those those, which implies that there were some from Loyalist Legions.

Whitehorn - April 26, 2011 11:41 AM (GMT)
If we're allowed to mention legion of One... (or the predecessor!)


Rubio (Ultramarines)
Loken (Sons of Horus)

malika - April 26, 2011 01:06 PM (GMT)
And Varren (World Eaters)

Whitehorn - April 26, 2011 01:21 PM (GMT)
Alas, I was going to post Varren, but Uzthizzar said loyalist :P

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - April 26, 2011 01:29 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Whitehorn @ Apr 26 2011, 01:21 PM)
Alas, I was going to post Varren, but Uzthizzar said loyalist :P

I'm not sure whether Varren counts due to the conflicting fluff. :o

QUOTE
If we're allowed to mention legion of One... (or the predecessor!)
Rubio (Ultramarines)
Loken (Sons of Horus)


What does it say in Legion of One about Loken? :huh:




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