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Title: Garro the Grey Knight?
Description: did he become one


Battle Brother Loken - December 15, 2008 07:50 PM (GMT)
does anyone know if Garro became a greyknight?
he was the first one to kill a deamon prince that was on record
and he was told that he was to become part of a special force
so is he a grey knight now?

Magos Explorator - December 15, 2008 09:05 PM (GMT)
It's not (yet) been explicitly stated.

Kriegersen - December 15, 2008 09:57 PM (GMT)
In my opinion if he was a grey night he would atleast be a captin, perhaps a commander....

Weiss - December 16, 2008 10:45 AM (GMT)
There are arguments both for and against this. The other option is that he becomes an inquisitor. The little speach Malcador gives certainly conveys this impression. There is also the fact that every GK is a psyker, and while Garro, I believe, would qualify, the vast majority of his command would not.

The Red Sorcerer - December 16, 2008 11:19 AM (GMT)
OK, here are some of the relevant quotes:
QUOTE (Collected Visions)
Before Malcador the Sigillite ascended the Golden Throne he had one last duty to preform. As he stood before the Emperor he was accompanied by a group of 12 hooded attendants. Malcador looked up to the Emperor and at the machine to which he was bound.

'Sire, when last we met you commanded me to gather together a group of people whose loyalty to you and to the Imperium was unquestioning. I have worked long and hard to find those I thought would siut. I have personally overseen every aspect of the exhaustive tests to which they have been subjected and can vouch for their character, loyalty and strength of mind. They have many skills and will serve you well. Malcador gestured to the hooded figures behind him, as he did so four of them stepped forward and knelt before the Emperor. The Emperor nodded an acknowledgement of their show of fealty to him.

'Sire, these others are known to you. Each of them is a Space Marine. They have cast aside their allegiance to Primarch and Legion who have sided with Horus and pledged themselves anew to you, their Emperor and father. I have chosen these eight since allied to their unflinching loyalty, they are each blessed with paranormal skills, kept dormant in respect of your previous commands. However these skills are most apt in combating the horrors that have recently emerged from the warp and I know that they will be needed in the coming years.'

'Malcador you have judged well, these eight Space Marines do indeed have a vital role to play in the future of the Imperium, though veiled in secrecy will they be.'

So, we have four individuals personally selected and tested by Malcador as people with unquestioned loyalty and varied skills. Then we have eight marines from the Traitor Legions who remained loyal, have psychic abilities, and have a future role in the Imperium that is 'veiled in secrecy'.
QUOTE (Thorian Sourcebook)
In the dark days that followed Horus' invasion of Terra and the Emperor's internment in the Golden Throne, the empire he had created was reeling in the aftermath of the civil war and the Emperor's ascension. Four individuals, trusted servants of the Emperor during the building of his galactic empire, gathered together to discuss what was to happen. They were divided in opinion, with two believing that the fledgling Imperium could not survive without the Emperor to directly lead Humanity, while the other two were adamant that the Emperor has ascended to a higher plane and that it was folly to interfere with the course of events as they had unfolded.

The two resurrectionists, known only as Promeus and Moriana, left Terra to begin their quest of bringing back the Emperor, while the two that remained acted quickly to establish themselves with the newly formed Senatorum Imperialis. Known to the Primarchs as loyal servants, these two began to lay the plans for the formation of an organisation that would combat the efforts of the two dissidents. Thus were the seeds of the Inquisition itself sown.

With the backing of the Primarchs, the two first Inquisitors made themselves known to the High Lords and began to recruit likeminded individuals from amongst the adepts and warriors on Terra. Their dream of an organisation dedicated to the protection of the Emperor would not be realised in their lifetimes, even extended as they were by arcane technologies, and the Inquisition as it is seen today did not fully come in to existence until the 32nd millennium

Here the background details four individuals who were 'trusted servants' meeting to discuss the future of the Imperium after the Emperor's internment, and their differing opinions leading to two of them departing Terra and the others forming the nucleus of what was eventually to be the Inquisition. The fact there are four individuals suggests that they are the same as the four mentioned in Collected Visions.

Then we have Garro's meeting with Malcador:
QUOTE (Flight of the Eisenstein)
'And now?' asked Qruze. 'What of us, Lord Regent?'
'Aye,' said Garro, clutching the icon in his grip. 'We cannot stay here, watching the stars and waiting for the day that Horus comes seeking battle. I request...' He fixed the Regent with a hard glare. 'No, I demand that we be given a purpose!' Garro's voice began to rise. 'I am an Astartes, but now I am a brother without a Legion. Alone, I stand unbroken amid all the oaths that lie shattered around me. I am the Emperor's will, but I am nothing if He will not task me!'
The Death Guard's words echoed around the glass tower and Kendel's novice shrank visibly to hear them. Malcador gestured with the eagle-head staff. 'Only in death does duty end, Astartes,' he said, with a hint of satisfaction, 'and you are not dead yet. As we speak, the Lord Dorn assembles his plans to oppose Horus and the primarchs he has turned to his banner. Lines of battle are being drawn across the galaxy, arrangements for a war of such magnitude that mankind has never known.'
'What will our place be in it?'
Malcador inclined his head in a tiny gesture. There is a matter to which you will be set, not today, perhaps not for many months, but eventually. The Warmaster's disposition has made it clear that the Imperium requires men and women of inquisitive nature, hunters who might seek the witch, the traitor, the mutant, the xenos... Warriors like you, Nathaniel Garro, Iacton Qruze, Amendera Kendel, who could root out the taint of any future treachery: a duty to vigilance.'
'We are ready' said Garro with a nod. 'I am ready'.

The 'inquisitive nature' and 'hunters' from Malcador's statement suggest a future that ties in with either the Inquisition or the various military arms that support it. If Garro etc are indeed among those Malcador later presents before the Emperor, then it is quite likely Malcador himself is not yet aware fully of the roles they me called upon to play until the Emperor himself has detailed it - judging by the quote in Collected Visions, he has been told to gather people with unquestioned loyalty who will prove useful in combatting aliens, the warp and other threats to the Imperium, but not the exact roles they will be called upon to play. While the hints definitely imply something linked to the Inquisition, it ddoes not necessarily imply Garro etc will actually become inquisitors themselves - the Imperium needs 'men of an inquisitive nature, hunters who might seek the witch, the traitor, the mutant, the xenos.... Warriors like you, Iacton Qruze, Amendera Kendel, who could root out the taint of any future treachery...' (the bold is mine) i.e. the men with an 'inquisitive nature' are not necessarily the same individuals as the 'hunters' or the 'warriors', they are all roles the Imperium needs to fill to ensure its survival.

Given the balance of what has been presented so far, I would argue that four individuals (who do not appear to have been marines) selected from those who were most loyal to the Emperor formed the origin of the Inquisition, and eight marines from the Traitor Legions who remained loyal formed the nucleus of what would become the Grey Knights - this may well have included Garro.

Battle Brother Loken - December 16, 2008 02:51 PM (GMT)
so is each marine from one leigon?
if so is Cruz one?

Magos Explorator - December 16, 2008 05:31 PM (GMT)
Again, it's not been explicitly stated. The Red Sorcerer's quotes sum up pretty much all that has been revealed.

ShroudFilm - December 17, 2008 12:59 AM (GMT)
It has been hinted here and there that the HH authors will follow Garro in future... :ph43r:

BigWill - December 20, 2008 01:39 PM (GMT)
I think Garro puts the Grey Knight togethers but will be more like Basil from Austin Powers.
He's the guy that talks to the knights over video wristwatches and gives them missions.
He becomes "The Chief" :lol: :D

The Red Sorcerer - April 2, 2009 11:28 AM (GMT)
Someone mentioned this in a thread on Warseer, and it was certainly something that made me sit up and take notice!

In the Collected Visions book, on page 368, there is a picture entitled 'Ula, Doom of Heroes'. In it, there is a Custodes and another individual in power armour fighting a daemon. The second figure has an eagle cuirass identical to the one worn by Garro on the artwork on page 339 ('Garro, Hero of Istvaan'). He appears to be wearing silvery grey armour, and be wielding a halberd which has just been shattered by the demon he is fighting. In addition, both pictures are by John Gravato, who is explicitly thanked by James Swallow in the acknowledgements of Flight of the Eisenstein.

Far from conclusive evindence, it is true. But it certainly seems very suggestive of what may have happened to Garro.... ;)

DaemonlordAbraxes - April 3, 2009 01:31 AM (GMT)
Never mind

Gagoc TheAncient - April 3, 2009 01:54 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (The Red Sorcerer @ Apr 2 2009, 12:28 PM)
Someone mentioned this in a thread on Warseer, and it was certainly something that made me sit up and take notice!

In the Collected Visions book, on page 368, there is a picture entitled 'Ula, Doom of Heroes'. In it, there is a Custodes and another individual in power armour fighting a daemon. The second figure has an eagle cuirass identical to the one worn by Garro on the artwork on page 339 ('Garro, Hero of Istvaan'). He appears to be wearing silvery grey armour, and be wielding a halberd which has just been shattered by the demon he is fighting. In addition, both pictures are by John Gravato, who is explicitly thanked by James Swallow in the acknowledgements of Flight of the Eisenstein.

Far from conclusive evindence, it is true. But it certainly seems very suggestive of what may have happened to Garro.... ;)

The second figure in the 'Ula, doom of heroes' picture, that you suggested was Garro, actually appears to be a Custode. You can see his Custode helmet flying off his head.

If you look at Garro on page 339, you'll notice that he has Mk III pauldrons, a low gorget, cables running around his chest, and the dirty, great big eagle behind his head.
None of which the figure in question on page 368 has.

So, I say with some confidence that it is a Custode and not Garro.

The Red Sorcerer - April 3, 2009 10:15 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
If you look at Garro on page 339, you'll notice that he has Mk III pauldrons, a low gorget, cables running around his chest, and the dirty, great big eagle behind his head. None of which the figure in question on page 368 has.

All of this is true. However, I wouldn't expect Garro to keep his own armour if he was joining a proto-Grey Knight organisation. However, his eagle cuirass was a battle honour he has added to his armour since he served on Terra if I remember correctly, so clearly he will have transferred it from several suits of armour over the course of his service - he wears it as part of his Mk. IV in Flight of the Eisenstein, despite the fact Mk. IV was not even in production when he was first awarded it. So the fact that he is not wearing the same armour as in the previous illustration, yet still has the cuirass, could merely be a case of transferring the cuirass to a new suit of armour he is given as part of his new duties.

It may indeed be a custodes style helmet dissapearing out of shot. However, if you look at the armour the figure is wearing, it appears to be very different to the normal Custodes armour both in colour and decoration. The lack of the usual ornate eagle decoration (barring the eagle cuirass) the distinctive shape of Custodes armour (which usually, for the pointy-helmeted Custodes at least, has slimmer leg armour, differently shaped shoulder pads, and so on, in contrast to this suit which apart from the helmet appears to be a standard marine armour suit) and the colour (in contrast to the golden cuirass, the rest of the armour appears to be silver, wheras custodes armour is invariably gold) suggest, to me at least, that the figure could well be something other than just a standard member of the Custodes.

Like I said, certainly far from conclusive, and it may well be supposed to be a member of the Custodes after all. But equally, it may be a hint as to Garro's eventual fate.

Gagoc TheAncient - April 3, 2009 06:40 PM (GMT)
Sorry Red Sorceror, oversight on my part. I assumed you knew.

The Cuirass that you refer to also has the second eagle behind Garro's head as part of it.
So if he has, as you propose, added the cuirass to his new GK armour, then why hasn't he taken the back of the cuirass with the second eagle attached?

Page 26 of Flight Of The Eisenstein.
QUOTE
Under Hakur's neutral gaze he moved to the centre of the alcove and set to work on the heavy ceramite and brass cuirass that rested there. This was a ceremonial piece that Garro wore only in combat or upon formal occasions. In tandem with the honour-rank of battle-captain, the decorative over-sheath sported an eagle, wings spread and beak arched, sculpted from brass as if about to take flight from the chest plate.  Similarly the rear of the cuirass had a second eagle as a head guard that emerged from the shoulders when worn over the backpack of Astartes armour.

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - April 4, 2009 02:53 PM (GMT)
The following probably could become Proto-Grey Knights:
Nathaniel Garro
Andus Hakur
Tollen Sendek
Iacton Qruze
...and if they survived:
Garviel Loken
Nero Vipus
Saul Tarvitz

+++SPOILER WARNING+++
It is possible that these last three could have escaped because in Fulgrim, Ancient Rylanor is said to have been guarding a secret underground hangar before the bombardment. Have not got the book with me, so I can't give a quote.

DaemonlordAbraxes - April 4, 2009 09:19 PM (GMT)
Loken was SMASHED by the FOOT of Dies Irae

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - April 18, 2009 12:30 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (DaemonlordAbraxes @ Apr 4 2009, 09:19 PM)
Loken was SMASHED by the FOOT of Dies Irae

Aah, but in a interview with Dan Abnet on Legion, he was asked whether or not Loken would be seen again and he said "I can't possibly say" (or something to that effect). This implies that Loken is gonna be back!

Anyway, so what if he was SMASHED by the FOOT of Dies Irae?

Lucius - September 22, 2009 03:19 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (DaemonlordAbraxes @ Apr 4 2009, 09:19 PM)
Loken was SMASHED by the FOOT of Dies Irae

I thought there was a second planet Bombardment which took out Loken, Vipus and Tarvitz.
I know Loken was crushed at some stage but he came too see the second planet bombardment I can't remember the quote but I remember one of the Emperor's Children questioning Tarvitz. He said words to the effect of, "WAS THIS ALL FOR NOTHING" and I don't believe Tarvitz answered him

ShroudFilm - September 22, 2009 04:30 PM (GMT)
Dan revealed what happened/happens to Loken at the 2008 Gencon Q&A session. More to come in the next BLTV too.

Calgar 2.0 - October 18, 2009 03:25 PM (GMT)
I don't think he became a GK. I personally like the theory that he still fights chaos in his old Death Guard colours.

Uzthizzar, Librarian-Sorceror - November 21, 2009 07:19 PM (GMT)
Yeah it would be cool, but i doubt it - he might get shot by people thinking that he was a traitor.

ShroudFilm - January 31, 2011 03:47 PM (GMT)
This thread must now be locked until the new GK codex is released.




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