View Full Version: Daemons, Deitys and Scarythings...

The Great Crusade > The Enemies of Mankind > Daemons, Deitys and Scarythings...


Title: Daemons, Deitys and Scarythings...
Description: Background, Help and Nibbles...


Lord_Mortirion - October 22, 2008 03:23 PM (GMT)
Ok, It has been mentioned in thebackground that the Four main chaos powers are not the only one's around, that there is lesser gods and random warp entities, who are also worshipped by the followers of the ruinous powers...

I know of Malal (i think that is the correct spelling) who was mentioned in the original WHFB RPG, if memory serves me correctly he was an 'undivided' god who was the enemy of the 'evil' gods... I cant give page ref's as i never owned this book, i jutst remember reading it years ago, and this pre dated ROC as the only gods mentioned were thisone , khorne and i think it was Nurgle or the other one who wears lipstick (not Pacific, the one begining with Slan) :P

So i thought a thread on the lesser Powers, so we can have a bit of a debate on what we think is out there, and anything also printed in older books that i have missed. (my knowledge goes back to rogue trader, and 4th ??? ed fantasy with the high elves and gobbos in the box)

I also remember a 'Rat' Deity called Kweethull in the ROC Lost and the Damned book...

Does anyone have the !st ed RPG as id like to read the chaos god entrys...


Does anyone have an idea on what some of the lesser powers could be, as they are based on emotion (not just human)... War/Anger, Pain/Pleasure, Death/Decay and the other boring one... What other emotions could be powerfull enough to bring about a lesser god... Hunger??? Stress??? Wind :blink:

What do you think the attributes of the Patrons Daemonic followers would they have... Khorne would be all ARRRGHHH and spiky, Nurgle all stinky and Slannesh make me feel funny inside...


Id like to get a bit of banter going here, so everyone put your 2 (insert currency here) in...

Battle Brother Loken - October 22, 2008 03:25 PM (GMT)
no but i rember Malal to

Mabrothrax - October 22, 2008 04:02 PM (GMT)
Everything you ever wanted to know about Malal can be found be checking the weblink in my profile. You should realise that the short-lived 'Renegade god' was never mentioned in any 40k context.

Kweethul was a randomly generted patron in the Lost and the Damned book, simply an example (and a rather tame one at that) of what all those gloriously bonkers tales could create.

The 1st ed WFRP book contains a tiny paragraph on each of Khorne, Nurgle & Malal.

If you really wanted to, you could flesh out An'sl, Morr'ck and Phrazz-etar (spelling?).

Part V of the complete Liber Chaotica has a short discourse on lesser deities, most of which was lifted from LatD.

Rather than create a 'god' as such come up wth the back story to a Daemon Prince (non-aligned perhaps) and where, how etc he/she/it would be worshiped.

VESPASIAN - October 22, 2008 04:24 PM (GMT)
An excellent and very interesting thread Lord_Mortarion.

I remember Malal, the renegade Chaos God. Who can forget his most mighty champion Kaaleb Daark, armed with his Dreadaxe?

As Mabrothrax says the Kweethul was provided as an example of what could be created by those seeking to create a Chaos lesser power.

Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned says that the Chaos Powers stem from collective emotional and mental states, which manifest themselves in the warp. The Four main powers derive from more common emotions. The collective manifestation of lesser emotions, can give rise to the birth of lesser powers. Individual Daemons can also be spawned in this way, either believing themselves, or fooling mortals into believing that they are Gods.

I personally would chose an emotion, and then use that as a spring-board from which to create a Chaos power.

I think that a lesser God would certainly be spawned from Despair; as that is a very strong emotion which can drive the individual to do a vast range of things to themselves and others.

Lord_Mortirion - October 22, 2008 04:48 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (VESPASIAN @ Oct 22 2008, 04:24 PM)


I think that a lesser God would certainly be spawned from Despair; as that is a very strong emotion which can drive the individual to do a vast range of things to themselves and others.

and during the heresy there would be a lot of people all bummed out at the fall of the imperium... hence the lesser god DAVE!!!! god of despair and depression...

a vengefull emo hell bent on destroying happy people...


aoart from the emo thing, i think were onto a winner here... but how would a daemon of the despair god look??? :unsure:

VESPASIAN - October 22, 2008 05:03 PM (GMT)
Covered in self inflicted wounds such as cutmarks and burnmarks. You could also add various objects pertruding from the flesh, sigils, knives etc.

Hooded face, of which only the lower part can be seen. Wearing tattered robes/hooded tabard.

Then add some more formulaic daemon imagery into the mix.

Lord_Mortirion - October 22, 2008 05:57 PM (GMT)
:D :D :D :D :D


just need some gs and a sculpting tool... might pick some up tomorrow...


dont forget chaps, i want as many people to partake in this, i like to read how other people interpret things...

Gagoc TheAncient - October 22, 2008 07:20 PM (GMT)
You know what models would be a good base for CSM followers of Dave?
Dark Angels!

As for Malal here's what can be found on page 210 of the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay book:
QUOTE
Malal is a renegade Chaos God, who has turned against the others and is dedicated to their destruction. His followers, sometimes called the Doomed Ones, seek out and destroy the followers of other Chaos Gods wherever they may be found.


Is it just me or does that sound the DA again?

Lord_Mortirion - October 22, 2008 07:26 PM (GMT)
or the star child *cough cough*

joke lol


but if malal wins, what does he benefit... did he come about because of peoples hatred against the chaos gods...

and a lesser god, doesnt exactly mean it will be 'evil' like the other four...

i think GW are missing out on some sweet A22 background potential here...

Lord_Mortirion - October 30, 2008 05:55 PM (GMT)
Had idea for Lesser Daemons last night, i was watching 'house on haunted hill' the remake not the funny vincient price one :(

when all the black stuff startid floating around it made me think of 'Dave' the god of Dispair (if i had that stuff after me, id be a bit bummed out)... I imagined the lesser Daemons to kinda come out of the ground and pull victims back in to the realm where they came from... they dont actually materialise like the other daemons, as the god's power isnt as strong as the rest (or something like that) so all you see is the weird black stuff moving acros the floor with some whispy tendrils of random stuff floating about, you only really see the daemon when it attacks you and it becomes semi-solid (no sniggering at the back) :P

Then i had the whole 'what to model them from' issue... then my missus said, these tree people in ya mag look pretty :blink:

1) I didnt expect to hear that...
2) Ents!!! Branches look like whispy black bits...

Painted and converted carefully i think i could be on to something, but how to make them look like they are coming out from the floor???


I thought of cutting down the feet, and have them moulded into the base with some whispy bits around them, paint the base a normal colour, but around the model paint it black, like the ground is corrupt where it stands, blended properly i think i could pull off the 'rising' from the ground malarky...


do i use the ent bosys as well, or Khorne Daemon bodys ( i wanna use some of the swords for my Word Bearers) as i will be ordering some...


any ideas... now i have a theme for my daemons, but i still dont know what to use... and there is some kickass sculpters on here... HELP!!!!!


im watching 'the return to the house on haunted hill' later, hopefully there might be something good on that, rather than a P* poor sequel, but first Green Street Hooligans me thinks...

lemme know what you think, thanx

VESPASIAN - October 30, 2008 09:53 PM (GMT)
I've had a little more thought with regard to my Chaos God of Despair theme: resulting in some more Daemonic Forms for the minions of the God.

One of the strongest forms of despair encountered by people (and with its undoubted prevalance in the Warhammer world, one of the most collectively powerful), is that of the condemned waiting for their approaching execution. This would have a powerful impact on the appearance of the major Daemons/Daemon Princes of the God.

I thought that the Greater Daemons would therefore look like Daemonic forms of executioners. Wearing dark hoods, grotesque face masks etc. and being armed with beheading axes, and double-handed, double edged beheading swords. They have severed heads hanging like trophies from their belts; and a noose hanging loosely around the Greater Daemon's neck.

The Lesser Daemons could look like daemonic victims of these executions, exhibiting the vast myriad of different forms of punishment which are inflicted. Another type I thought of is that of a drowned suicide victim-a bloated, pale skinned victim-with wet hair and flesh, trailing water behind them: a little like Samara from the American version of the Ring.

Battle Brother Loken - October 31, 2008 12:14 AM (GMT)
dryads sawed in half
if yah wnat to do this project i got losts of dryads B)
but they even look demonic
and if memory serves the have the same rules :ph43r:

Maratheus - October 31, 2008 09:34 AM (GMT)
One ancient Terran deity is mentioned in the first Horus Heresy book.
I think it was Sey-tan or something. :rolleyes:

The Red Sorcerer - November 3, 2008 03:26 PM (GMT)
Actually, the Chaos God of Despair already exists - Nurgle. Liber Chaotica, the modern successor to the Realms of Chaos books, makes it clear that although he may more commonly be seen as the Plague God, the 'base' emotion from which Nurgle draws his sustenence is despair. As Vespasian has already pointed out, the 'Big Four' gain their power from the four most powerful emotions of sentient beings. Which are (in GW World at least :D )
Anger: Khorne
Hope: Tzeench
Despair: Nurgle
Pleasure: Slaanesh
Nurgle's strong association with disease/plague comes as this is one of the most common causes of dispair and lack of hope, as well as being a powerful recruiting tool for Nurgle.

Lord_Mortirion - November 4, 2008 03:26 PM (GMT)
damnit, back to square one :(

Gagoc TheAncient - November 4, 2008 04:10 PM (GMT)
Lord Mortiron, there's still Boredom, Sadness, Confusion, Joy, Love, Angst & Worry, Self Loathing (probably Malal), Hatred, Fear and a whole load more.
Plenty to pick from.

VESPASIAN - November 4, 2008 05:05 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Lord_Mortirion @ Nov 4 2008, 03:26 PM)
damnit, back to square one :(

Lord_Mortirion: Well there is nothing to say that our Lord of Despair is not a breakaway Daemon Prince, or other warp entity which has managed to detach itself from Father Nurgle's influence and begun its own rise to power.

A renegade God so to speak.

The first thing that such a renegade would want to do is change its and its followers visual appearance in order to distance itself as much as possible from an association with its former master.

Red Sorceror: D'OH!!! :D

The Red Sorcerer - November 4, 2008 05:30 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (VESPASIAN @ Nov 4 2008, 05:05 PM)
Lord_Mortirion: Well there is nothing to say that our Lord of Despair is not a breakaway Daemon Prince, or other warp entity which has managed to detach itself from Father Nurgle's influence and begun its own rise to power.

A renegade God so to speak.

The first thing that such a renegade would want to do is change its and its followers visual appearance in order to distance itself as much as possible from an association with its former master.

Red Sorceror: D'OH!!! :D

:P

I think if you are aiming to have a 'breakaway' minor power, it would need to be a specific kind of despair if it was to have sufficient identity in the warp to breakaway from its former patron, rather than just being based purely on 'despair' - that would leave it effectively identical to Nurgle. For example, despair at being unable to find your keys despite the fact you know you left them on the bedside table last night and now you're going to be late for work AGAIN... or perhaps something slightly more 40K related! :lol:

One option for an alternative (inspired by the Heresy period) would be a minor God of treachery and betrayal...

VESPASIAN - November 4, 2008 05:39 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (The Red Sorcerer @ Nov 4 2008, 05:30 PM)
One option for an alternative (inspired by the Heresy period) would be a minor God of treachery and betrayal...

Now thats an excellent idea, full of concept possibilities!

As I'm struggling to find and devise concepts for some 'lost key' related Daemons :P , I think that I'll stick with my previous ideas for Daemons.

So the Renegade God may have to feed on the despair of the executed and those that commit suicide. Both are aspects which have a very high prevalance during civil wars-so there would be alot of souls to feed upon during the Horus Heresy. ;)

Lord_Mortirion - November 4, 2008 06:13 PM (GMT)
:)

ow were the daemons split up again, wasnt it the greater daemon, then the lesser ones were split up in to steeds (juggers) normal foot types (bloodletters) and another type (fleshhounds)... i cant remember,,, :(

Battle Brother Loken - December 15, 2008 05:58 PM (GMT)
i know this is threadomancy but i have something helpfull to say

beleakor was a break away deamon prince who became hsi own god (but really tzeentch was tricking him, but what ever)

so how about louthing or self louthing
and i will work on a name since i am snowed in today

Vredesbyrd - December 15, 2008 06:20 PM (GMT)
Its not threadomancy if you add something to the discussion, which you have done with the information on Belakor. Vredesbyrd.

Lord_Mortirion - December 17, 2008 10:45 PM (GMT)
Belakor???

the name sounds familliar but i cant place it :unsure:

Vredesbyrd - December 17, 2008 10:51 PM (GMT)
First Champion of Chaos in the WFB world, he become a model during the Storm of Chaos campaign and is now the most used Daemon Prince model going.

Actually thinking about it Belakor is Fantasy not 40K so doesn't really fit in here. Ah well. :lol:

Battle Brother Loken - December 17, 2008 10:51 PM (GMT)
fantasy
he is a deamon prince who was bond to serve archon
and he fled to the south and formed his ownn cult who worshipped him

Edit: need to be faster :P

Lord_Mortirion - December 17, 2008 11:02 PM (GMT)
thats why i didnt know it, fantasy bores me

Battle Brother Loken - December 17, 2008 11:08 PM (GMT)
fantasy has good fluff for chaos
and good minis for preheresy

o
one other thing about bealekor is that he is crazy
like really crazy
all bound up and stuff by tzeentch
that would be cool
have bealekor in 40k as he is imortal and all
all insane and godly

Lord_Mortirion - December 18, 2008 12:22 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Battle Brother Loken @ Dec 17 2008, 11:08 PM)


all insane and godly

nah, cant be arsed sculping myself :D

Lord_Mortirion - December 29, 2008 03:23 AM (GMT)
Right, sorry bout the threadomancy and all, and hope you all had a good xmas...

working on the background and came up with the following...



Name - Baphos... Lord of Dispair (nightmares)
Magic Number - 5 (or multiples of)





A young god in comparison to the other 4 powers, Baphos has only been recognised by the Ordo Malleus as an indipendant power, and have usually mistaken him for a 'rogue' daemon from one of the other powers, if this is true or not we can only speculate as Baphos' origins are unknown.

The oldest records date back to the 31st millennium, but it is thought to predate even this turbulant period of history, but any records have have either been erased or just never existed to begin with...

Methods - Practise...

Baphos has been dubbed with the title 'Lord of Despair', a name usually associated with the god Nurgle, his methods are more descreet than some of the other gods, though no less deadly., this is thought to be down to the lack of power the other gods have, or one of many other possable reasons. When a world comes to his attention through a local warpstorm or from cult worship, Baphos makes his prescence known in peoples dreams, usually he appears in the nightmares of prophets or the many people proclaiming the end of the world.
(Because of the way he 'infiltrates' the minds of people in this manner, he has also been mistaken for Tzeentch or one of the folowers of the Lord of Change)...

Once the people he has 'spoken' to have started preaching of his comming, more and more people are visited in their sleep as unrest and dread spreads through the community, dreams of losing family or loved ones, visions of the future, of their world being invaded and everyone slaughtered or enslaved and forced to build monuments in his name as shadows claw at them whilst dancing in the firelight, all the time whispering and sowing the seeds of dispair...
Even when people are awake his mental torture continues, constantly eating away at the back of their minds. When his power is greatest and his hold over his mortal pray has broken their will his daeminic footsoldiers break through the barrier seperating the warp from reality to slay in his name...

Appearence...

The daemonic followers of Baphos are shadowy beings, they appear to be semi-corporeal, smoke like . This also helps to install despair into the minds of the enemy, afterall how does one kill something that doesnt seem to have a solod body...

GREATER DAEMONS - The Hangmen of Baphos...

The hangmen vary in apperance although they do share common traits. They are large, nothing unusual for a Greater Daemon, and wear some form of 'hood' or other kind of facial covering. this usually takes the form of a Hangmans hood or that of a 'Hooded' monks robe.
They also wear some kind of clothing on their bodies, though this isnt always the case, this usually takes the form of a tabbard or 'monk' style robes...

Any visable flesh is covered in scars, or has 'pins', spikes bits of metal or broken glass pressed beneath their skin, and anyone who looks at them is said to feel all the joy and happiness sucked out of them. Every eye witness report has said they have a 'Hangmans noose' around their necks and carry an hourglass on their person somewhere. Occasionally they have wings and some carry weapons, although these vairy, although some form of sword or mace seems to be the more popular choice...

It is said when a hangman appears, that it just steps out of the shadows near the unsuspecting enemy, although it has also been recorded that they have appeared in the same way as the shadowkin... :(

LESSER DAEMON - The Shadowkin...

All Shadowkin bear the same form, thats if they actually take a form themselves. Unlike most daemons from more 'popular' powers, you have little warning that you are in danger before they appear.

When the attack is immanent, a section of the ground turns black, as if its being corrupted from beneath, (again, another reason why Nurgle has had credit) and faint whisps of smoke or miniscule 'spores' rise up as blackened tendrils spread outand grow wider and longer as more 'smoke' is given off. When these spread wide enough to join up with other 'thingies' (technical term) :lol: the Shaddowkin rise up.

Their appearence is vaguely humanoid, they seem to have a body, the legs blend into the blackened earth beneath them, that spreads and follows them. Their limbs are like smoky tendrils, in a vague parody of arms, with fingers that stretch out, flailing about to ensnare their victims, the head is also just a smoky shape, occasionally when the power feeding them is strong they take on basic facial features, usually red eyeslits and a fanged maw.

When they attack their victims, they usually see long dead family members beckoning to them, people who they love of members of their unit who they are close to in pain or sometimes themselves as corpses, this usually gives the Daemons enough time to get in close before the victim realises this is an illusion and the Daemons body solidifies and takes on the appearence of the victims worst nightmare and slaughters them...



ok, any ideas to add to this, for the shadowkin i had the image of the black smoky crap that appears in the remake of the house on haunted hill and will poss use elf Dryads to model them, and the Hangmen will be using the new Daemon prince of a converted horned rat mini (anyone have one going spare???)

but i see this as a forum thing as you guys have really helped me along so im not going to take all the credit B)

and i had records going bact to the heresy, as it ties in with what we do and it seems to me like a perfect time for Bhaphos to come of age, with marines fighting their brothers and whatnot...

Battle Brother Loken - December 29, 2008 05:02 AM (GMT)
night lords
he would be atracted to them in some way shap or form

and i like it

but i would steal a bit more from the dryads
they change into the form of women before they kill people
how these daemons change into the persons loved ones or something right before they kill them

Torg - February 6, 2009 11:27 AM (GMT)
I was thinking about using a mini I found of Cthulu,
for 30k Deamons Like a lesser power (or a power kicked out of the eye of Terror)
maybe one that sided with Malal(see Realm of Chaos (old books)or Wikipedia about him.)How would you guys use him and the old ones of Lovecraft? :ph43r: :)

ShroudFilm - February 25, 2009 12:15 AM (GMT)
I envisage Cthulhu and the other Great Old Ones basically as the same sort of thing as the C'tan. They create life and destroy it at whim, and barely even notice the little organic things that worship them.

I was amazed at the similarity of language between HP Lovecraft and some parts of Mechanicum...!

Torg - February 25, 2009 08:57 AM (GMT)
Maybe with them,I could possibly make them as awakened
Chaos Gods/Ctan but made their home somewhere instead of the Eye of Terror.
I mean there is a couple of places on the 40k galxy maps, I have seen that such things could inhabit instead of the Eye. :ph43r:
I mean if you look at it there is:
A, The GrendL stars
B:Spatial anomaly"Hadex"
or C,The Mealstrom,I mean think about it did exist in the 30k
galaxy as far as anyone knows,and is another Eye!
or even D the middle of the galaxy,an even bigger Eye then the Eye of Terror
even today in (2009) it is considered a Black Hole.
So the ideas are endless.....

scragglefoot - February 26, 2009 06:58 PM (GMT)
For the greater Daemon you could base it on the look of the executioner in the new resident evil game he looks alot like you were discribing just found an action fiqure of him what do you think?

http://www.forbiddenplanet.com/products/39...il/Product.html

Scragglefoot

malika - April 9, 2009 02:50 PM (GMT)
I managed to get my hands on the Daemons Codex a while ago and it left me very disappointed. It was one big pile of...ok let's stay polite here! :lol:

The book however seems to focus on the Big Four and doesn't even mention other possible powers, hence creating a suggestion that there are only four. Personally I really don't like that idea. I like the idea that the Chaos Gods number more, and that they can very well change form/focus, making the lines between certain deities very vague (Khaine/Khorne for example).

Check this thread over at the Anargo Sector Project forums for the idea of a new minor God, Ghaezun, the Lord of the Blind. He works through music/art and in a way has similarities to Slaanesh but also Tzeentch and Nurgle.

Gagoc TheAncient - April 9, 2009 07:41 PM (GMT)
Maybe they akin to Terry Pratchet's gods, as described in 'Small Gods'.

They're insubstantial, lowly spirits until they find a niche, in the case of the warp an emotional niche, and they develop by how much they are worshipped, or are able draw on the emotional power they've tapped.

But if they lose their power, they revert back to lowly spirit that can only provide illusions to entice people.

malika - April 10, 2009 05:17 PM (GMT)
Hmm, perhaps the Big Four work like that as well. I mean one fluff source states they kind of came about around 7000-8000 BC while others state that Nurgle showed up around the 14th/15th century. The Necron Codex seems to suggest that Chaos emerged during the War in Heaven when more races started to use their psychic powers/link to the warp.

MvS over at Warseer wrote an interested article on the 40k pre history, I'll post it up later. Might be interesting to some!




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