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Title: Titan Legions
Description: Pre-heresy and Heresy period


The Red Sorcerer - July 16, 2008 11:35 AM (GMT)
There have been a few threads of late discussing Titans, so I thought it was probably about time we attempted to gather what information we could on the Loyalist and Traitor Legions that were around during the Heresy and beforehand. I did some research a while back as I was thinking about what Legion and colour scheme to use when I got round to adding Titans in support of my Epic Thousand Sons, so here is what I managed to find - almost all of it is shamelessly cribbed from Lexicanum at this stage. Any further information people have will be welcomed - bear in mind, of course, that much of this information is very old background indeed, so is not hugely reliable, but still is probably useful...

Known Legions

Death Stalkers

Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: Battle for Mars
Colour Scheme: ?
Famous Titans: ?
Source: WD 110, Codex:Eye of Terror, Mechanicum

Legio Magna (Flaming Skulls)

Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor - Khorne
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: Attack on the Imperial Palace
Colour Scheme: Red/orange/yellow/black
user posted image
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Collected Visions, Imperial Armour 1, Mechanicum

Legio Astorum (Warp Runners)

Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Lucius
Notable Actions: Fought the Legio Mortis on Tallarn, fought the Orks of the Kamenka Troika
Colour Scheme: blue, flame decoration
user posted image
Famous Titans: Fortuna Imperiatrix, fought on Tallarn. Canis Vertex, Warlord Titan destroyed on Coriovallum and taken to Prospero by the Thousand Sons.
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Armour 1

Legio Ignatium (Fire Wasps)

Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Mars
Notable Actions: Battle for Mars, Defence of the Imperial Palace, Sarosh
Colour Scheme: Black & red, decoration in yellow
user posted image
Famous Titans: Imperious Prima, a Warmonger Titan involved in the defence of the palace and dating from before the foundation of the Imperium.
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Collected Visions, The Descent of Angels, Mechanicum

Legio Gryphonicus (War Gryphons)

Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Gryphonne IV
Notable Actions: Yarrant III
Colour Scheme: yellow & grey
user posted image
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Armour 1

Legio Metallica (Iron Skulls)

Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Metallica
Notable Actions: Centuries of combat against the ork empires surrounding Metallica before it was brought into the Imperium
Colour Scheme: Red, chevrons in white/black/yellow
user posted image
Famous Titans: ?
Sources: Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Armour 1

Legio Mortis (Deaths Heads)

Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: Battle for Mars, Siege of the Imperial Palace, Tallarn, Istvaan III, Davin's Moon, Ullanor, Murder.
Colour Scheme: Black, red, silver, gold
user posted image
Famous Titans: Dies Irae, an Imperator titan involved on Istvaan III. Vulkus Tor, destroyed by Orks on Ullanor. Deaths Head and Xestor's Sword, Warlord titans involved on Davin's Moon. Venator, a Warhound titan. Deaths Head Scouts, a Warhound titan formation that fought during the Heresy. Aquila Ignis, Imperator Titan destroyed on Mars in the battle for Magma City.
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, False Gods, Galaxy in Flames, Flight of the Eisenstein, Mechanicum

Legio Victorum (Foe Slayers)

Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Mars (heresy period), later Triplex Phall
Notable Actions: First Titans of the Legion were still based on Mars awaiting transport to other warzones when the battle for Mars began. Fought on Mars until they could be withdrawn to Terra. Took part in the Siege of the Imperial Palace.
Colour Scheme: Blue w. gold/bronze/yellow details
user posted image
Famous Titans: Primus Malachi, a Reaver Titan that was the first Titan of the Legion to be completed. Imperious Cathedra, an Imperator Titan completed just before the Legion evacuated Mars.
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Armour 1

Legio Vulcanum (The Dark Fire)

Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: Stygies VIII
Notable Actions: Stygies VIII had two Legions formed there due to its proximity to the Eye of Terror, Legio Vulcanum I and Legio Vulcanum II. During the heresy these Legions defected to Horus and were involved in a longrunning battle with Loyalist elements on their homeworld. Eventually both Legions were defeated with the aid of Eldar from Saim Hann and fled to the Eye of Terror at the end of the Heresy.
Colour Scheme: Olive Green, details in Yellow/Black
Famous Titans: Venataris Mori, operated with the Night Lords Legion during the infamous purging of the Shi'Hu'Gal Dominion during the Great Crusade
Personnel: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Armour 1 & 6

Legio Vulturum

Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: ?
Colour Scheme: Silver, white, black
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Adeptus Titanicus II

Legio Tempestus

Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Mars
Notable Actions: Epsiloid Binary Cluster wars, Battle for Mars. The bulk of the Legio is with Guilliman's crusade fleets when the Heresy breaks out.
Colour Scheme: Cobalt Blue
Famous Titans: Deus Tempestus, Warlord and first Titan of the Legio. Victorix Magna and Tharsis Hastatis, Warlords. Arcadia Fortis, Metallus Cebrenia - Reavers. Vulpus Rex, Raptoria, Astrus Lux - Warhounds.
Source: Mechanicum

Legio Tempestor (Storm Lords)

Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: Involved in the Siege of the Imperial Palace
Colour Scheme: Blue/Grey/Black & white checks
user posted image
Famous Titans: ?
Personnel: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Collected Visions

Tiger Eyes

Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: ?
Colour Scheme: Yellow/black
user posted image
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus

Legio Damnatus (Warped Dogs)

Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: The Legion's landing craft was destroyed while attempting to land on Terra during Horus' primary assault and the Legion was wiped out.
Colour Scheme: ?
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Collected Visions

Legio Astramana (Morning Stars)

Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Graia
Notable Actions: ?
Colour Scheme: Green & yellow, decoration in white & black
user posted image
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Armour 1

Legio Xerxes

Alignment during the Heresy: ?
Homeworld: Mars
Notable Actions: Nurth
Colour Scheme: ?
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Legion

Legio Honorum (Death Bolts)

Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Estaban VII, later Stygies VIII
Notable Actions: ?
Colour Scheme: Red & Gold, decoration in blue & silver
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus, Imperial Armour 1, Mechanicum

Legio Destructor (Steel Beasts)
Alignment during the Heresy: Imperial
Homeworld: Accatran
Notable Actions: ?
Colour Scheme: ?
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Adeptus Titanicus II, Imperial Armour 1, Mechanicum

Burning Stars
Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: Fought the Legio Ignatium dcuring the battle for Mars.
Colour Scheme: ?
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Mechanicum

Legio Damnosus (Lords of Ruin)
Alignment during the Heresy: Traitor
Homeworld: ?
Notable Actions: ?
Colour Scheme: ?
Famous Titans: ?
Source: Imperial Armour 7

So, if anyone can find any further information on Pre-heresy/Heresy era Titan Legions, any further sources that support or contradict what we know already, or anything else that might be useful, fire away!

Brother-Captain Basilus - July 16, 2008 11:41 AM (GMT)
The Dies Irae also is in "Storm of Iron", right ? So it is sure that it wasn't destroyed during the Heresy.

Weiss - July 16, 2008 12:16 PM (GMT)
Legio Astraman (loyalist) The Morning Stars

He got his info from Adeptus Titanicus, so I suspect it's good.

The Red Sorcerer - July 16, 2008 12:40 PM (GMT)
Legio Astraman was in the Lexicanum list as well, but I was of two minds about it... it didn't specifically mention it being a pre-heresy or heresy-era Legion. I never owned Adeptus Titanicus, so I don't know whether it was entirely focussed on Titan battles during the Heresy or also covered other periods. If it is the former, then we can assume all the Legions mentioned within are Heresy-era at least. If the latter, I would prefer to have definitive proof that they weren't post-heresy Legions.

So anyone with Adeptus Titanicus, let me know. Would like to add some of the other Legions - particularly the Morning Stars, as green with yellow/gold detailing makes a nice change colour-wise from the Legions we have so far (lots of red, black, blue and yellow and not much else...)

Weiss - July 16, 2008 02:10 PM (GMT)
Very good point. I find most Titan colour schemes completely garish and absolute eye-sores. Still not sure whther it's the models themselves, or just the old-style painting...

How much leeway is there to do a DIY legion?

The Red Sorcerer - July 16, 2008 03:07 PM (GMT)
A lot of the old Titan Legion paintjobs do make them look pretty terrible, its true. Mind you, I do think a large part of it is a combo of the old models and paintjobs... compare this
user posted image
with the more recent interpretations of the War Griffons scheme on the Forgeworld website on their Warhounds and Reaver... the old pic looks awful, but the newer versions look much better despite using essentially the same scheme. There are also good examples of toning down the scheme as well... the Forgeworld version of the Legio Astorum scheme on the Mars pattern Warhound and Reaver miss off the flames to make it far more restrained. If you do want to do a 'canon' Legion, I suggest using the official colours but not following some of the old Titan paintjobs to closely could have a similar effect - 'reimagining' the scheme so it isn't too garish. Another thing to bear in mind is that in heraldry white/silver and yellow/gold are interchangeable, so if an old scheme has (for example the Morning Stars) yellow as a contrasting colour, you can replace it with gold if you think it will look better, or vice-versa.

As for creating your own Legion, I don't see much of a problem with it. Unlike the 20 Space Marine Legions, there is no information on how many Titan Legions there were in this period. Most Forgeworlds probably have their own Titan Legion, and there are certainly far more forgeworlds than we have 'canon' Titan Legions...

Weiss - July 16, 2008 03:51 PM (GMT)
I presume the war griffons reaver is the silver one? Thanks for the advice.

I'll probably go with a DIY then personally. The only blue-schemed loyalist legion that I've seen hadn't even left Mars when the Heresy started kicking off...

Off to the drawing board! :D

The Red Sorcerer - July 16, 2008 04:09 PM (GMT)
QUOTE
I presume the war griffons reaver is the silver one?

Looks grey to me. But yes, the one with the silvery grey armour and yellow head.
QUOTE
The only blue-schemed loyalist legion that I've seen hadn't even left Mars when the Heresy started kicking off...

What about the Legio Astorum if you are thinking of blue Loyalists? The flame decoration is optional if you think its too garish, they are a 'canon' Pre-heresy Legion (with a particular rivalry with/hatred of Legio Mortis), and the Legion badge looks pretty funky in my opinion - as does Forgeworlds latest interpretation of their scheme...
user posted image

Kharn - July 16, 2008 04:51 PM (GMT)
Well, since this seems like the thread for it...

What weapons would you find on Imperator or Warlord Class Titans?

Like, I've seen huge single barrel cannons that look like Hellstorm Cannons, then there are Plasma Cannons right? (like real Cannons) Then there was the Chainfist in Storm of Iron on the Imperial Guard Titan? Can anyone confirm these and add any other ones?

The Red Sorcerer - July 16, 2008 05:18 PM (GMT)
OK, lets see -

Emperor Class Titans

Imperator
Primary weapons: Hellstorm Cannon (looks like a huge assault cannon), Plasma Annhilator (huge plasma cannon)
Secondary weapons: Quake cannon (big battlecannon), Defence Laser, battlecannons in turrets on fortress part of the superstructure

Warmonger
Primary weapons: Doomstrike Missile Rack (rack of large missiles funnily enough :D ), Vengeance Cannon (huge double-barelled battlecannon type weapon)
Secondary weapons: Quake cannon, Quad autocannon turrets on superstructure, Fire Control Centre, landing pad for Lysander Fighter.

Warlord Titans

Four weapons from the following:

Gatling Blaster (see FW Reaver)
Turbo Laser Destructor (see FW Reaver)
Volcano Cannon
Quake Cannon (Large battlecannon)
Inferno Gun (Large flamer type weapon)
Vulcan Megabolter (See FW Warhounds)
Plasma Blastgun/Cannon/Destructor (Plasma weapons of increasing power/slower rate of fire)
Multiple Rocket Launcher (see FW Reaver)
Titan CCW (powerfist, chainfist)
Melta Cannon (large melta weapon)
Laser Burner (close range rapid fire laser weapon)
Support Missile (large single shot missile)

Those are all I can remember offhand from Epic...

VESPASIAN - July 20, 2008 09:09 PM (GMT)
I have some further information regarding Legio Mortis

They fought and were present in several different engagements including Ullanor, Murder and Davin's Moon.

Known Titans of the Legion include:

Vulkas Tor (destroyed by the Orks on Ullanor), the Death's Head and Xestor's Sword (both Warlord Class Titans which fought alongside the Dies Irae on Davin's Moon.

In addition there is also the Venator: a Warhound class titan which was Moderati Jonah Aruken's first posting (all details taken from Horus Rising, False Gods and Galaxy in Flames).

Apparently it was the excesses comitted by Senior Princeps Esau Turnet's Deaths Head Scouts during the Horus Heresy, which was directly responsible for terminating the practice of having scout class Titans (such as the Warhound) organised into Battle Groups. (mentioned in the Codex Titanicus, Page 20 from the Titan Legions game;but somthing that is yet to be mentioned in the Horus Heresy novels.

The Legio Mortis banner is descibed as being such on the Dies Irae:

'...a long banner of gold and black was unfurled between the Titan's legs, like the loincloth of some feral savage, emblazoned with the death's head symbol of the Legio Mortis. Scores of curling scrolls, each bearing the name of a glorious victory won by the Warmaster, were stitched to the honour banner and Jonah knew that there would be many more added before the Great Crusade was over.' False Gods, Page 19

So this aspect would appear to be definately different from the Adeptus Titanicus incarnation.

With regard to the Morning Stars Legion (I will not use Legio Astraman to describe them as I have no idea where that title comes from and suspect it may be fan-based in its origin), they are indeed an Imperial Order. They are illustrated in Codex Titanicus-the original supplement for the Adeptus Titanicus and first edition Space Marine game (not to be confused with the book of the same name from the later Titan Legions game). So it is safe to say that they were present during and prior to the Heresy.

On a personal note I would not use the word Chaos to describe the alignment of those Legions which were loyal to Horus. As the novels make clear that they were fighting for Horus rather than Chaos itself.

Weiss - July 21, 2008 06:58 AM (GMT)
Urm, fighting for Horus so far... We've only just started the heresy... Plus, siding with Horus IS siding with chaos, whether they know it or not (which I suspect Turnet does, seen as he's on Horus war council thingy...).

VESPASIAN - July 21, 2008 07:52 AM (GMT)
I do not agree that siding with Horus IS siding with Chaos.

Chaos has such a fixed and widely known meaning due to the huge amount of background which stems from the Warhammer 40,000 universe.

This knowledge (common to almost all members)of what consitutes this concept in the 41st Millenium is so strong, that it can colour our perceptions of the 31st Millenium and have a detrimental effect on the way that we perceive aspects relating to the Heresy background.

That is why I think that the word Chaos is best avoided; as it is a Warhammer 40,000 concept, rather than one that exists at this point in the 31st Millenium. Any mentions of Khaos from this era, come from very old tomes that speak of ancient legends and half true whispers.

We know with the benefit of hindsight that Horus and his forces are ultimately damned for eternity; we recognise that the voices who speak to Horus and Fulgrim are actually Daemons; we instantly recognise that the strange banners that hang from Horus's Strategium are nothingless than the sigils of dread Chaos itself.

However Horus and the great majority of his followers do not have the benefit of our hindsight.

The great majority of Horus's forces were fighting for Horus himself, not for Chaos. I doubt that even Horus really had any understanding of the true nature of what he has made a pact with, or of the concept of Chaos; it is only at the very end when that realisation dawns on him, in his final fight against the Emperor.

Turnet is indeed a member of Horus's War Council, but he and others are simply told by Horus:

'I am going to topple the Emperor from his Throne on Terra and take his place as the Master of Mankind.'

Pacific - July 21, 2008 08:36 AM (GMT)
I totally agree with that affirmation Vespasian.

You can draw very similar parrallells to real life history, of soldiers fighting for what have been deemed postumously 'evil' armies, but are in the majority of cases simply following orders, or perhaps even believe they are fighting for some higher ideal. I also find it hard to think of any motivation to fight, stronger than that against a perceived oppression, which I think many of the Marines must have been harbouring - and lets be honest, I'm sure there were many marines in the legions which remained loyal which harboured similar sentiments.

There was an excellent episode of Star Trek: TNG (quite an old one now), which followed a remarkably similar plot; where a society had created genetically altered soldiers to fight for them, but rejected them and locked them away when the battle was won.

Futhermore, I think it is pretty obvious from the first 3 HH books that Horus views his allies in the warp as a means to an end, rather than an end in itself. His own sense of self-belief and egotism was carefully nurtured by chaos daemons, but I firmly believe that for the majority of the Heresy, Horus had the best interests of mankind and the Imperium at heart. As has been said, it is only when he finally sees the palace on earth about to fall that he realises the enormity of what he has done.

Weiss - July 21, 2008 08:57 AM (GMT)
Whether any of them know it or not, they are still pawns of chaos, and therefore have allied with chaos. Their intentions are irrelevant: they could have wanted to save the galaxy or just searched for personal gratification of any kind, but they still sided/were duped by chaos, which means they are on the side of chaos.

The Red Sorcerer - July 21, 2008 10:10 AM (GMT)
Right, I've added the info on Legio Mortis and added the Morning Stars. I'm inclined to agree with Vespasian in that its probably best just to have 'Traitor' rather than 'Chaos' as far as their alignment goes. While some Legions may have fallen to Chaos fully (the old Bill King account of the Siege of Terra mentions the Flaming Skulls being dedicated to Khorne, and there is a picture of a mutated Tzeentch titan in Collected Visions) others may simply have thrown in their lot with Horus rather than the Chaos Gods per se, and only became fully 'Chaos' Legions later.

Keep it coming folks!

QUOTE (Vespasian)
'...a long banner of gold and black was unfurled between the Titan's legs, like the loincloth of some feral savage, emblazoned with the death's head symbol of the Legio Mortis. Scores of curling scrolls, each bearing the name of a glorious victory won by the Warmaster, were stitched to the honour banner and Jonah knew that there would be many more added before the Great Crusade was over.' False Gods, Page 19

So this aspect would appear to be definately different from the Adeptus Titanicus incarnation.

The old Legion badge was a skull/deaths head design, and the primary colour was black. I'm not sure that the fact this banner has gold elements necessarily implies the Legion scheme has changed. If there is background describing the actual colours present on the Titan itself as black and gold, then OK, but at present its just a banner.

Magos Explorator - July 21, 2008 02:20 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Weiss @ Jul 21 2008, 08:57 AM)
Whether any of them know it or not, they are still pawns of chaos, and therefore have allied with chaos. Their intentions are irrelevant: they could have wanted to save the galaxy or just searched for personal gratification of any kind, but they still sided/were duped by chaos, which means they are on the side of chaos.

Yes, but there's a difference between someone who's fighting for Horus (and so Chaos by proxy) and someone who's actively seeking the favour of the Chaos Gods. I imagine that, in the early stages of the Heresy at least, people from the first group encountering the second may well revert back to loyalty to the Emperor!

VESPASIAN - July 21, 2008 04:32 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (The Red Sorcerer @ Jul 21 2008, 10:10 AM)
The old Legion badge was a skull/deaths head design, and the primary colour was black. I'm not sure that the fact this banner has gold elements necessarily implies the Legion scheme has changed. If there is background describing the actual colours present on the Titan itself as black and gold, then OK, but at present its just a banner.

I agree with you that the main colour of Legio Mortis is still black.

It is mentioned as one of the colours on the Honour Banner; furthermore it is the colour of the breastplates worn by the Legio Mortis guards who are described as:

'...two soldiers in burnished black breastplates over silver mail shirts. Each wore a mask fashioned in the shape of the Legio's deaths head.' (False Gods, Page 25)

However the use of colours on the banner is often (though I appreciate not always)reflective of the tinctures used in the heraldry of the Legio itself.

Frustratingly there are no specific mentions of the colour schemes of the Legio Mortis in the Horus Heresy novels as yet. So this is just merely a conceivable possibility, rather than stark fact (it would certainly tone down and modernise the colour scheme if the Legion has become black and gold in its colour scheme though; if it indeed were the case).

The Titan Legion which fought on Nurth was called Legio Xerxes, whose forces were led by Princeps Amon Jeveth. Annoyingly again, there are no details that I could find on either the heraldry or colour scheme.

However the Titan Legion appears to have come from and been based on Mars itself (Legion, Page 284 & 297) Mars itself supports three different Titan Legions (Codex Titanicus-Titan Legions, Page 18)

At the evacuation of Nurth, six titans had to be left behind due to Namatjira's incompetence, after which Jeveth detached his force from the 670th Fleet and returned to Mars (Legion, Page 297).

Finally there is another Titan Legion mentioned in the original Adeptus Titanicus rulebook on page 42. The Legion is called the Death Bolts and the excerpt on the page is from their foundation charter:

'...And the name of the Order shall be the Death Bolts, and their Forge World shall be Esteban VII.

The colours of the Death Bolts shall be red over gold. Their banner shall be quartered, gold against chequered blue and silver, bounded red. Their badge shall be a crossbow bolt ordinary, over an inverse triangle gold.

The Grand Master of their founding shall be Maxen Vledig, and their moto shall be nemo mea poena effugit-None may escape my vengeance
.'

Sadly there is no information on which side of the Heresy they fought.

The Red Sorcerer - July 21, 2008 05:06 PM (GMT)
Rightyho, added the Legio Xerxes and the Death Bolts. I've provisionally stuck the Dethbolts as a Loyalist Legio - Lexicanum says they are Loyalist and Esteban VII is still around as a forgeworld in the 41st Millenium. Far from being confirmed, of course, but suggests a Loyalist Legion to me at this stage until further info comes to light.

As for the Legio Mortis, I think there is no problem with adding a bit of gold to their scheme... the banding on the carapace of the old Adeptus Titanicus version is in gold, and GW seem to have a tendency of adding gold to the scheme when they 're-imagine' the old Adeptus Titanicus schemes... the Forgeworld Mars pattern Warp Runners titans have gold added to their colour scheme for example.

The Red Sorcerer - August 28, 2008 10:21 AM (GMT)
Right, noticed that Imperial Armour 1 had a brief description of some notable Forgeworlds and their Titan Legions at the beginning. It confirms the homeworlds of some of the Legions listed, so have added it as an additional source. It also has the Forgeworld for the Morning Stars, so have added that in, as well as the high gothic names for the Flaming Skulls (Legio Magna) Death Bolts (Legio Honorum) and the Morning Stars (Legio Astramana). Apparently the Death Bolts homeworld is now Stygies VIII... not necessarily a retcon, as their homeworld may well have moved following their original founding, particularly as both the Legions based on Stygies VIII (Legio Vulcanum 1 and II) went traitor.

Figure the thread is probably worth a sticky as well, particularly given there are a few epic blogs now.

VESPASIAN - September 23, 2008 10:44 AM (GMT)
Another addition to add to Red Sorcerer's excellent list.

'...a demi-Legion of Titans from the Fire Wasps' was sent to Sarosh to crush any last pockets of resistance, therby ensuring compliance of the planet. (Horus Heresy:The Descent of Angels, Page 412)

Anodyr - December 17, 2008 08:31 AM (GMT)
Post deleted. Sorry but no information from Mechanicum is to be posted untill 1st January on this forum. Here's a link to the post regarding the ban for you: MECHANICUM Thanks-VESPASIAN

Anodyr - December 17, 2008 09:57 AM (GMT)
Fair enough. Apologies.

VESPASIAN - December 17, 2008 10:09 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Anodyr @ Dec 17 2008, 09:57 AM)
Fair enough. Apologies.

No problem. :)

As well as broader details about the Titan Legions themselves, it would also be quite good to collate information about their organisational structure, uniforms, troop types within each Legio, and famous personalities.

Vredesbyrd - January 10, 2009 11:38 PM (GMT)
This may be what was originally posted by Anodyr, but in light of the actions of the Legio Tempestus in Mechanicum would it be fair to note that they stayed loyal to the Throne or is it just being assumed that only those present and destroyed on Mars were the only Loyalists?

Magos Explorator - January 10, 2009 11:56 PM (GMT)
I think Tempestor and Tempestus are different Legios.

Vredesbyrd - January 11, 2009 02:53 AM (GMT)
See I wasn't too sure if they were or not especially as Red's information on Tempestor talks about the rivalry with Mortis and shows the 'cobalt blue' colour scheme that the Tempestus enginges are described as having.

Corax - January 11, 2009 06:42 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Vredesbyrd @ Jan 10 2009, 08:53 PM)
See I wasn't too sure if they were or not especially as Red's information on Tempestor talks about the rivalry with Mortis and shows the 'cobalt blue' colour scheme that the Tempestus enginges are described as having.

Maybe the Legio split? Half went traitor and became Tempestor and half stayed loyal and stayed Tempestus?

Magos Explorator - January 11, 2009 09:20 AM (GMT)
That would work!

Tempestus are definitely loyal, though, as they feature as loyalists in Titanicus.

Dark primarch - January 12, 2009 02:53 AM (GMT)
id agrre witht this, espiaclly as they share the names of storm lords, if you could have loyalist fragments within legions why not in the titan legions?

The Red Sorcerer - January 12, 2009 11:10 AM (GMT)
Hmmm, sounds like we have a bit of an inconsistancy going on. Gah. So, Mechanicum features Legio Tempestus as a loyalist Legio, also known as the Storm Lords. But even relatively recent background has the Storm Lords as a Traitor Legio - from the descriptions of the Siege of Terra:
QUOTE (Collected Visions)
Hundred-metre high doors opened along the flanks of the monsterous ships and from within their stygian holds the Titans of Chaos emerged.... banners unfurled bearing the foul runes of Chaos and the Titans of the Storm Lords and the Flaming Skulls Legions marched to war.

So, either we have two Legions, Tempestor and Tempestus, both known as the Storm Lords, or we have one Legion, probably known as Tempestus (Tempestor as a name for the Storm Lords Legion only appears in older background as far as I know) that split into Traitor and Loyalist elements. Hmmmm.

Actually, could someone with a copy of Mechanicum have a good look through and post all the relevant info about Titan Legions it contains? Would certainly be helpful.

@Vred: Actually, the Legio described as having a particular rivalry with Legio Mortis is the Legio Astorum, the Warp Runners. Again, this is from older background so may no longer be valid.

ShroudFilm - January 12, 2009 01:20 PM (GMT)
Hmmm... interesting... a second glance at my copy of the HH boardgame shows the following:

Loyalist Legions -
Fire Wasps, Templars, War Griffons

Traitor Legions -
Storm Lords (Slaanesh), Flaming Skulls (Tzeentch), Deaths Head (Nurgle)

<_<

VESPASIAN - January 12, 2009 04:40 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Corax @ Jan 11 2009, 06:42 AM)
QUOTE (Vredesbyrd @ Jan 10 2009, 08:53 PM)
See I wasn't too sure if they were or not especially as Red's information on Tempestor talks about the rivalry with Mortis and shows the 'cobalt blue' colour scheme that the Tempestus enginges are described as having.

Maybe the Legio split? Half went traitor and became Tempestor and half stayed loyal and stayed Tempestus?

Corax I think that that is an excellent and very valid point...

I think that you may have stumbled across somthing that is yet to pass in terms of the novels.

It'll be very interesting to see if a schism does develop within the Titan Legion, but I've got a very strong feeling that you are correct in your theory. ;)

ShroudFilm - January 12, 2009 04:55 PM (GMT)
I did wonder if the paltry collection of engines commanded by the 'Storm Lord' at the end of Mechanicum was representative of a WHOLE legion... we've already seen Astartes legions divided!

VESPASIAN - January 12, 2009 05:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ShroudFilm @ Jan 12 2009, 04:55 PM)
I did wonder if the paltry collection of engines commanded by the 'Storm Lord' at the end of Mechanicum was representative of a WHOLE legion... we've already seen Astartes legions divided!

Plus we already know from the other books that Legio Mortis' strength was divided-with some being on Mars itself and another part fighting in the Warmaster's Expeditionary Fleet...

So we know that a Titan Legion could be and was divided into seperate fighting groups scattered across different fighting theatres.

Magos Explorator - January 12, 2009 05:05 PM (GMT)
Thinking about it more, I guess it might be an oversight on the writers' parts--you'd think that if a Legio had split then e.g. Titanicus would have mentioned the fact, given it concerns that Legio fighting Chaos!

VESPASIAN - January 12, 2009 05:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Magos Explorator @ Jan 12 2009, 05:05 PM)
Thinking about it more, I guess it might be an oversight on the writers' parts--you'd think that if a Legio had split then e.g. Titanicus would have mentioned the fact, given it concerns that Legio fighting Chaos!

Thats a good point.

However it very much depends on how far spread that knowledge is...

At the moment I'm looking at it from a Dark Angels perspective (seeing as its a very good parallel).

We know, as readers, that some of the Dark Angels turned against their brethren. However in reality this detail is known to only the smallest and highest echelon within the Chapter.

I would imagine that if such a schism did occur within the Titan legion all those millenia ago, and if it was still a known event all those years later,...then only those in the very highest position of the order would have access or be trusted with such potentially desctructive knowledge.

Another possibility to consider is that Dan Abnett deliberately did not include such a detail in order to avoid the spoiling of an important plot device in a yet to be created Horus Heresy Novel.

It would just be another example of his 'holographic' story telling technique, in partnership with McNeil.

Vredesbyrd - February 12, 2009 09:44 PM (GMT)
I have a quick question relating to the Knights of Tanaris and the Legio Tempestus.

Other than 'midnight blue' and 'cobalt blue' respectively what are their colours? I'm meaning the lesser colours used in contrast to the blues which I assume the majority of their armour to be.

Also what is the symbol of the Legio Tempestus? I remember that House Tanaris' is a 'lightning bolt within a wheel' but not much more than that.

I've not got my copy of Mechanicum here in Aberdeen with me so I'd appreciate anything that anyone can provide me.

ShroudFilm - February 13, 2009 11:49 AM (GMT)
IIRC the Knights colours from Titan Legions were the classic red-and-silver, or blue-and-bronze. Add yellow plates to the blue for a good heraldic contrast.

Fingol23 - May 22, 2009 10:42 AM (GMT)
Some information from Bill Kings story "Assault on Holy Terra" from WD 258.

Legio Damnatus
Alignment: Traitor
Notable Engagements: Destroyed while landing at the Siege of the Emperors Palace

Misc:
Legio Mortis destroyed the Sky Fortress during the siege
The Fire Wasps seem to make exstensive use of volcano cannons




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