Title: Codex: Iron Hands Legion
Description: Test Rules.
Weiss - June 26, 2008 07:31 AM (GMT)
Legio: Iron Hands is well under way, and with many thanks to Shroud for PDFerising it, I would like to invite you all to have a gander and make your opinions heard. This is only a beta, and a few of the unit entries need fleshing out (once I find my copy of C:SM) because I don't use them and therefore are less familiar with their rules.
The main changes are in there though. I thought I'd try out the upcoming shooty vs choppy veterans and a different system for the scouts. I also included a couple of more specialised squad types in the Troops section, but have limited them by requiring a basic squad to get acces to the others. Do you think this system works?
I'm tempted to, considering the size of the legions, use a "up to 3 pred/HS choice" kind of option, but am really not sure because a game big enough for that should really be done in Apocalypse.
What do people think of the 6 HW devastators? And the combat squads rule?
Just a few issues I'm personally not sure on. Link below!
Torg - July 2, 2008 06:39 AM (GMT)
Sounds ok to me, but how does it work on the battlefield and
question is what do you think?Is it good?I think it will work fine!Weiss, my good man! :)
Weiss - July 17, 2008 07:14 AM (GMT)
I have yet to find out how it will work: I haven't finished it yet. I've tried to keep things balanced and au fait with current standards. Will have to print the rules off then see if my friends will play against me with them... They should be fine with it though, we regularly make exceptions/house rules/concessions, etc...
ShroudFilm - July 17, 2008 09:53 AM (GMT)
PDF added to original post. If people are happy with these rules, I had a few ideas to make these look damn tasty in Photoshop/Word and prepare something which could almost be official... there's an idea for future Codex projects! :D
Iacton - July 17, 2008 10:45 AM (GMT)
1st pinned thread?
Good work Mr Weiss ;)
Weiss - July 17, 2008 11:02 AM (GMT)
I thank you.
@Shroud: I've been gathering some artwork that would be relevant to the codex. Just need to get some permissions for a few. Would you like a look-see? Once the final version of the rules is done, and maybe a background section (though a lot of that will have to be artistic license, I think), I could pass it over to you to work your magic...
ShroudFilm - July 17, 2008 11:32 AM (GMT)
Please do! Email them over and I'll get busy.
Weiss - August 5, 2008 07:56 AM (GMT)
I've sent Shroud a new version of the army list. Changed the layout to make it less strain on the eyes. Will hopefully get him to post it up later today. In the meantime, I need suggestions for what kind of psychic powers the codicier should get. Any and all ideas are welcome. I'm not sure any powers to do with machines would be right - that's the iron fathers realm, so should he just use the same ones as in the standard marine dex?
Weiss - August 14, 2008 07:06 AM (GMT)
Right, Shroud seems to have forgotten about this, so I hosted the .doc file on a free sharing server, Link in original post. Changed the layout, I think it makes it clearer to read. Also ammended some points costs, though there are a load that will need inputting once I get hold of a copy of the space marine codex (mine seems to have gone missing).
Added a couple of psychic powers as well, what do you think?
Manfred von Kramstien - May 5, 2009 02:58 AM (GMT)
Which link do I click on to find the Codex?
Itkovian - May 23, 2009 11:42 AM (GMT)
Here's a link mate: http://www.box.net/shared/mqkd7889a9
I haven't worked on this for a while, shall have to have a look at it.
ShroudFilm - May 24, 2009 12:52 AM (GMT)
Wow, I remember this! I'm sure I edited it or something back then... no idea where the communication broke down in the hosting/posting though.
Is a revision for 5th edition on the cards?
Itkovian - May 24, 2009 07:01 AM (GMT)
Yeah, I'm going to start working on it... at work again after bank holiday. I was working off rumours of the new space marine codex at the time, so now that's out I can get it down more solidly.
I think it will be easier to send it to you once it's finished for a final pdf conversion.
ShroudFilm - May 24, 2009 11:38 AM (GMT)
Excellent - I for one look forward to seeing it!
It might be worth going through the Tempus Fugitives AOTE packs to get some more fluff ideas - I'm going to start on a World Eaters legion list at some point, borrowing from Blood Angels and TF.
Itkovian - May 28, 2009 03:41 PM (GMT)
I've been doing that. Got a new version of the file for you: http://www.box.net/shared/mqkd7889a9
Just ignore the first two pages. Though I considered having Ferrus Manus and the Morlocks in the army list, I'm now going to change them to an Apocalypse formation.
I've been going through the SM codex in detail for the first time, and hadn't realised how much had changed (the fact that I haven't been playing them for quite a while is probably another factor)... This could take a while.
Main changes were to the Clan Master and captain, as well as the addition of the Iron Guard (Honour Guard). Also updated some of the profiles for HQ slots, but they were only minor. I wouldn't consider this playable at the moment...
The file is a bit of a mess as I've been playing with ideas. Feel free to comment.
Also, this file really needs to be viewed in Word, Wordpad will just turn it into an even bigger mess than it already is... :P
Itkovian - July 8, 2009 11:16 AM (GMT)
Just thought I'd give a quick update. I'm currently getting to grips with Scribus, so I'll be able to produce my own pdfs soon. Once I have that and some layouts down, I'll be doing a full revision.
ShroudFilm - July 8, 2009 11:48 AM (GMT)
Why does the board never send me alerts for this section? I can't believe this has been sat here for over a month and I've only just seen it!
I like the option for Morlocks to turn Terminators into Troop choices, and the Recon squad seemed spot-on.
Am I right in assuming that all of this was based on the previous edition of Codex Space Marines? Some stuff has been removed in 5th edition, like Bionics, Termie Command Squads etc...
Itkovian - July 8, 2009 12:50 PM (GMT)
Yeah, that and the Chaos marines 'dex as well. While I want to keep the main "larger" organisation for it (kind of blending some imperial guard values in there, due to the force being Legion-sized), the wording for the entries and other standards need to be changed to keep up with the times.
Transferring this to Scribus provides an ideal opportunity to go over the unit entries one by one.
Itkovian - July 23, 2009 01:56 PM (GMT)
Bit of an update. While I'm still figuring out Scribus - and trying to build some page borders, etc..., I've been going through the troops section and revising it in light of the new SM Codex. I've typed these up in a simple format so that I can just copy and paste them into Scribus. Here's a link to the file, for those interested:Iron Hands Troops Section
I was thinking of doing an IG-style platoon structure for the Troops section, but decided this would overly complicate things, so I just made the Ferrum Squads the only ones that can count towards compulsory troops choices. This was done so that you don't end up with just six Support Squads...
You now HAVE to give everyone but the sergeant in the Support Squad a special weapon. Though this does make them a very powerful unit, you will be paying through the teeth for it and you don't get any ablative wounds. Do you think I should make it that everyone in the squad has to choose the same weapon? Or is it fine as it is?
killjoy - July 28, 2009 12:54 PM (GMT)
well i like that idea but if every one in that squad had the same weapon there versatility
will be reduced and that's not a good thing, i think if you just keep it at 5 man and add the option of a heavy weapon to the Sargent it will be alil different. just an idea
what is ATSKNF?
Itkovian - July 29, 2009 01:03 PM (GMT)
ATSKNF: And They Shall Know No Fear... Once I have it all down, it will be a simple Find+Replace job.
Keeping it to a five-man squad could be an idea, though the versatility, I'm not too sure about. If you took a six-man squad with 2 flamers, 2 meltas and 2 plasmas, they aren't actually any better than the Ferrums at taking out specific targets, nor have they the resilience that a ferrum squad has - as soon as that unit starts taking fire, it's effectiveness starts to drop... Though leaving it as an option doesn't hurt, I suppose.
Giving the sergeant a heavy weapon would go against their intended purpose. Heavy weaponry encourages (requires) the unit to remain static - and that's not their point. They are supposed to be up there with the Ferrum Squads, picking out targets that require a greater concentration of specialist fire.
I'll have a look at the artbooks again and see if any of those squads had more than 5 Astartes in them.
Thanks for the feedback!
killjoy - August 4, 2009 08:29 AM (GMT)
ok well i get the point of the support squad not having any heavy wep.
another thing if you add something that lets the recon unit las-carbine shoot 3 times if withing 12 or 6 in. like fire at will or hold ground but cant move next turn or charge, so you will need to know when to use them.
and with the versatility thing i meant that a unit of only melta guns cant be used the same way as a unit of flamers, get it now :D
see flamers are good at swarming units
melts- armored units
plasma- all around with best of both weapons but the over heat thing.
another thing for the recon squad is if you add some thing to the sarg. like plasma reactor or some thing like that sorta thing for 5 or 10 points that lets you re-roll the over heated thing but you still cant hit with the re-roll
plus will a devastator like unit be in the heavy section, cus i think it should be called a firing squad :P
Itkovian - August 4, 2009 12:16 PM (GMT)
While I'm not sold on the three-shot or move and assault next turn (imperial guard infantry squads get the same ability for no cost, every turn, and can still act normally as long as you pass a leadership test), you're comment did make me think about the squad's role in the army and I'm bouncing around a few ideas:
I've removed all the homing beacons from the other squads' options.
Thinking of adding some sort of targetting array for the sergeant - something along the lines of reducing scatter for indirect fire units if the sergeant has LOS to the target or an orbital strike (like the Ghosts from Starcraft :D ).
|and with the versatility thing i meant that a unit of only melta guns cant be used the same way as a unit of flamers, get it now |
see flamers are good at swarming units
melts- armored units
plasma- all around with best of both weapons but the over heat thing.
You may wish to think about your wording before you post stuff like your first sentence. I assume you meant no offence, judging by the smiley, but I can't find a tone by which it could sound... positive. In answer, I don't "get it now".
Your first post concerning this said that removing the versatility of the squad (by removing the option to take a mix of special weapons) would be a bad thing.
I then argued that giving them a range of different special weapons would dilute their effectiveness in all areas, thereby squandering the advantage that taking a greater concentration of special weapons provides (especially with the new wound allocation rules). Though I did say that leaving it as an option couldn't hurt.
You then reply with the above - which makes no sense in this context (unless I'm being dense). Maybe you should elaborate on what you are trying to communicate with those statements.
Before you reiterate, I do understand the difference between the three special weapons. Incidentally, plasma guns have neither of the best features of the other two weapons (template for the flamer and the melta rule, as well as AP1 for the meltagun), but have high strength and low AP combined with a greater range and rate of fire than the meltagun make it good at taking on heavy infantry and light vehicles - ie transports.
I don't think the plasma reactor is necessary for the support squad sergeant as he doesn't carry a special weapon. While giving him a special weapon could be considered appropriate - even going as far as giving him a souped-up version, it just reminds me too much of an exarch to feel right.
Devastators will indeed be in the HS section, though I could see your suggested name causing confusion during game play...
killjoy - August 6, 2009 05:05 AM (GMT)
well i see what your saying about the special weapon and i was just going in a circle sorry.
but what i was saying with the reactor was that the squad can re-roll ones with plasma weapons.
ya i see the change of name with devastators would be confusing
killjoy - August 6, 2009 05:07 AM (GMT)
sorry for the double post but just noticed it :D
Itkovian - January 29, 2010 11:11 AM (GMT)
Morning all. Finally got round to almost finishing this. Here's a first draft of the full rule-set minus special characters, for you perusal:Codex Legiones: Iron Hands
Things of note (and that I would love some comments on) would be the Bastion Predator, the Heavy Support Squad and the Iron Father especially. Thanks guys!
dark_claw - January 29, 2010 12:04 PM (GMT)
what format is it on? my pc wont open it lol
Itkovian - January 29, 2010 02:11 PM (GMT)
It's in RTF (Rich Text Format) - one I thought any word processor could open... :huh:
dark_claw - January 29, 2010 02:25 PM (GMT)
i dont have a word processor on my pc :P
Itkovian - January 29, 2010 03:13 PM (GMT)
You have WordPad - comes as standard in the Accessories section of your Start Menu. Looks a bit weird, but works all the same.
Failing that, you can go to OpenOffice.org and dowload their suite for free. Gives you the functionality of Microsoft Office without the silly cost...
dark_claw - January 29, 2010 05:08 PM (GMT)
i have to say i like it the pred is like a more heavy razorback. the heavy squad is like the long fangs which is good and i like the iron father, i would personally lower the servitors (I) as 4 seems a bit high.
what is the mechanicum blade tho? there are no rules listed for it
Itkovian - January 30, 2010 02:53 AM (GMT)
It's a relic blade - they've only been fighting for two hundred years... :D
dark_claw - January 30, 2010 08:31 AM (GMT)
lol well i suppose so during the heresey lol :D
killjoy - March 24, 2010 04:25 AM (GMT)
well i think that the heroes having "feel no pain" rule is a bit OP when there not with a command squad with an apothecary. I feel that the apothecary should give the "feel no pain" rule just like orks or IG with there command squads or nobz. And with the "heavy support squads" i just dont see why a rotary autocannon would make much sense, besides that it gives 1 more shot, i just dont see why it is of any use and is kinda OP. one thing that i do like is the "rapier carriage" as it is a lascannon with D3 shots but only 24 range. can u explain what this wep is like, or what it looks like. O and i dont see the benefit of the srg having feel no pain it just kinda useless if u ask me. i do like where this is going and woulds love 2 see the final ver.
P.S what is ATSKNF i cant find it in my codex :D
dark_claw - March 25, 2010 10:02 AM (GMT)
and they shall know no fear
MrBojab - June 15, 2010 09:40 AM (GMT)
Do you mind if I steal some ideas when I do Codex: Salamanders?
Great Rules would love to play against them and with ferrus manus I reckon up the points to like 600 and he can only be played in a force over 1750 pts.
Just a thought.
Also I would like to add that sergeants should have a servo arm, bionics and feel no pain as they are veterans with lots of body modification. Again only a thought.
Cheers Mr Bojab