Knock UMM out

[SIZE=7]I posted this up on SDH but I figured I would post it here to see If There was a chance that I would get any new responces or outlook on the subject from someone new.
So here goes.... for my first post to the Den Tree , Im going to IT ON.

I Know there is a open dog training season in Kentucky , so what are the spicific rules.
I've looked in the Guide but there dosnt seem to be much as to what can and cant be done when it comes to Squirrel hunting.

I Know that in Michigan (were I was raised). There was a certain time period set for training dogs .We called it Knock down season.

You could not carry a gun but there were no rules set that you could not Knock down or squall a coon out of a tree for the dogs.

I dont know of any way to bring down a squirrel without useing some lead, but with that being said, I do have a freezer squirrel to give at the tree .

I found part of the answer to this question in the general regs not in the spring guide , where I was looking. But it dosnt really answer definately to what I am asking.

I have a squirrel whistle that when operated properly imitates a baby squirrel in distress .

I also have an electronic call ( western rivers night stawker ) that has a squirrel in distress ,it upsets the squirrels which makes them move and some times timber . Which is what Molly needs work on.

During and after a rainy day when the leaves are soaked the water falling from up above appears like it would help a dog track a moving squirrel.

So as to the Regulations and as they do not spicificly apply to squirrel training. Any guess as to if this method would be OK to use

I am aware that in the Regs. that we get from our local sporting goods store do not contain everything us hunters must Know (by KRS statute).

Although the Hunting guide only states

" Except during the season, raccoon and opossum hunters must not carry firearms, tree climbers, squealers or any device capable of killing , injuring or forcing raccoons or opossums from trees or dens."

Nowhear does it state the use of a caller to move the squirrel is forbiden.

My intent is not to kill harm or maim the squirrel but just to get it to move from hiding so Molly can follow it through the tree tops. She seriously needs to brush up on this aspect of her hunting skills.

With all the amendments to the statutes , It becomes very hard to put a finger on the true meaning of what is and is not legitimate.

Also,
I am wondering if the young squirrel in distress call, would just distact my dog more than it will help?
I'm guessing there is only one way to find out.

During regular hunting season, and before I had Molly. I have used this type of call when just hunting by myself, with some success at making the squirrel move.

As it stand right now. I would like to work Molly with the leaves on the trees this year, as I did not run her much last year with the green on , through the advice of others .

But this Year I feel it nessesary to do so to round off her training. But if the squirrel just holds tight. So if I cannot Knock it down or use a caller. eventhough the the regs do not specify particularly for squirrel that I cannot then I feel the hunt will not keep her intrest very long and she will revert to leaving the tree to look elsewear for the meat.

What do you all think ?

I'm not sure about the laws or regulations with a squirrel but I have never seen anything in the book saying you could or couldn't use a call to get a sq to move. It does say for Va anyway that electronic calls are forbidden on national forest.

In the past year or 2 I have seen several dogs that would tree good and didn't have any meat knocked out to them that did start moving on looking for another sq that they might could see. They just quit staying treed and focused more on running sqs up

That is exactly what Molly was doing , Then as the leave fell she stayed put.

This spring she worked ok most of the time for the few times we went out ( She was in heat during the early season) but as the trees filled out good she showed as if she was going to pull off tree a few times looking for the Squirrel that never moved and I could not find it eaither ,I was not able to see it eaither.

I do not want to wait for the leaves to fall to work her again. and I think If molly sees it moving she will gain confidence that she treed right and will only pull off if she sees it moving. Im not sure if she wants to split tree and move back and forther like my old walker hound used to, but that would be cool also.[/SIZE]

I can't help you on that. Sence I have a 4 or 5 acre training pen that I use year round to walk my dogs in, I have no need to use public land.

You could contact your states Game Dept and ask them.

Why don't you put up a squirrel feeder?
Put it where a squirrel must travel on the ground to get to it. And put it on a post or small tree. That way a squirrel won't be able to just run up the tree and hide.

Your dog will be able to see the squirrel, chase it and then tree it. That should hype your dog up enough to stay treeded even in the summer.

VADAN,

I have 28 acres of my own with lots of Squawks, and lots of private land that I have access to hunt on. Somewhere around 600 or 700 acres + 100 acres that I lease for hunting. But the rules on calling a squirrel would apply on all land regardless .

Now if Some kind of wildlife enforcment or any other type of LEO came on to My land and told me what I can and cannot do , without permission or warrent, they will be shown the way to the road and the courts can handle the matter. But by no means does this mean that I dont follow the rule of law, It just better be law if I am to follow it.


Anyway , what seems to happen at is when Molly is tracking or winding a layup. That she is not sure about and she pulls off. I have even gone as far as using a cap gun to keep her interested to stay. But shes smart and catches on that Im not bringing anything down.

Now If she sees it on the ground and runs it up a tree , if it gets that far ,She will stay put.

Looks like your dog is doing good. I'm sure they can tell when your not hunting but rather just going through the motions. they will change their actions to match yours.

Time will mature a dog better than a person can. Each year she will get better and better.

My thoughts are this. I don't see any thing wrong with pulling vines, using calls, throwing rocks to get a squirrel to move. In Wv there are rules set for the training season about killing squirrels out of kill season even if your dog catches it on the ground. If your just wanting to make one move there is nothing in the rules that forbid it. The best thing really to do is maybe call your local DNR and chat with them. They are very helpful and would really clear up the issue for ya. I hope this helps.

Cantmisum you need to take her down to Dans training pen, i let my young dogs run loose around here year round and they learn on their own but i dont take them out much if the leaves are heavy i do run the old dogs this time of year but its to hard to find or see with all the leaves and under growth and heat to boot thats why i run mine at night or early in the morning this time of year but i like to be in the woods when the leaves are off thats the only time im in a hunting or training mood, you have to watch how the laws are wrote down and they are applied because the wardens have a thin line they go by and how its legal or illegal ... Dimpsy ...

When my dog trees in the off season I'll do whatever possible to get that thing to timber. We don't have many vines where I hunt most of the time but when they're available I'll give them a good shake or two. I'll shake some small nearby trees to the point of possibly uprooting them (not really but pretty darn hard), throw sticks in the upper limbs, and so on. I'll to whatever to make it move. There generally isn't any regulations on something like that.

Hick I learned this coon hunting and beat any thing it would work on squirrels. I will take a big stick and just start hittin the tree most cases the coon will move or show his eyes.

I would have to aggree with all of you , Ya'll make good pionts.
I do know the Game warden a few countys over personally, (we dont have one in Metcalfe) but I have yet to contact him and ask Hcause I never worked here in the green much.

I think the best thing I could do Is work Molly with a good stay put honest tree dog . Molly has done everything on her own at this point with no help.

When I wanted to finish out a coon dog in years past I always hunted them with a finish dog a few time .it always seemed to turn on the switch inside of them If they had it. If not then thats all you had and no more.