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 Pathfinder - The Jade Regent Adventure Path, I might run a game
Masterly
Posted: Oct 26 2011, 09:32 PM


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QUOTE (Megamet @ Oct 26 2011, 06:22 PM)
Why not? Last I recall, it's a plus 2 to vision based Perception checks at range. Also, Alexei has ranks in Perception. I understand if he can't create things like, say, a healing kit, since he doesn't have ranks in Heal, but a Spyglass should be entirely within the scope of his abilities.

Correction, a spyglass does not provide a bonus at all. It simply allows an object to be magnified, and decreases an already existing penalty for looking at things from a distance. Making a spyglass a a difficult and time consuming process that requires a precise set of convex and concave lenses.

They are an expensive item that costs more than most NPCs in this setting will see at any one time.
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Megamet
Posted: Oct 26 2011, 09:55 PM


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And...? In case you haven't noticed, one of my class abilities relies on the ability to apply augments to Eyewear. Even without this ability, half the point of the Soulcrafter is to be able to pull out masterwork items to suit any situation. It's not like I'm pulling out a +2 Nightvision goggles of Ranged electric death here, it's a simple mundane item that reduces long distance penalties to perception. It's no different from the bonuses provided by a masterwork item, which Alexei can already create. I really don't see how Alexei's Ability to create a Spyglass breaks the game, unless there's some hazard coming down the road that relies on the PC's inability to make spot checks at range.
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Masterly
Posted: Oct 26 2011, 10:07 PM


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Whatever, I don't give a shit anymore anyway. Here you go:

The spyglass doesn't reveal much, the village is at about the same ground level as you (slightly raised in fact, it's a hummock) and the walls obscure most of the inside. At the distance you're at (70-110ft), the only clear view is straight through the front gate which has been demolished and and wrecked beyond repair. Just a little past the gate is some sort of pen which contains something that you cannot ascertain at this distance.
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Vuanaunt
Posted: Oct 27 2011, 01:30 AM


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QUOTE (Megamet @ Oct 26 2011, 09:55 PM)
And...? In case you haven't noticed, one of my class abilities relies on the ability to apply augments to Eyewear. Even without this ability, half the point of the Soulcrafter is to be able to pull out masterwork items to suit any situation. It's not like I'm pulling out a +2 Nightvision goggles of Ranged electric death here, it's a simple mundane item that reduces long distance penalties to perception. It's no different from the bonuses provided by a masterwork item, which Alexei can already create. I really don't see how Alexei's Ability to create a Spyglass breaks the game, unless there's some hazard coming down the road that relies on the PC's inability to make spot checks at range.

Yeah, but

QUOTE
Your DM is the ultimate arbiter of what items you can and cannot soulcraft.


Also

QUOTE
it's a simple mundane item


Sets of lenses really aren't simple. Besides, it's probably glowing blue. tongue.gif
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Megamet
Posted: Oct 27 2011, 01:33 AM


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It's non-magical. By definition, non-magical items are considered Simple items. Plus, that rank in craft ain't just for show, you know.
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Masterly
Posted: Oct 27 2011, 01:37 AM


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I still think lenses are more complex than just slits of glass.

From now on if you want to craft a spyglass you need a rank in Craft (Lenses) or Knowledge (Physics).
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Megamet
Posted: Oct 27 2011, 01:43 AM


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There's no such Knowledge skill. Please don't add more of them. Ten is more than enough.
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Vuanaunt
Posted: Oct 27 2011, 02:00 AM


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I believe he was proving a point.


Having studied physics and the physics of lenses, I can safely say that a set of lenses is by no means simple, regardless of how little magic they have.

More importantly, in your class features (Soul craft):

QUOTE
Your DM is the ultimate arbiter of what items you can and cannot soulcraft.
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Milo
Posted: Oct 27 2011, 11:51 AM


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Does the class feature explicitly say that it can make masterwork items? Because if not, I would not consider those "simple".
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Vuanaunt
Posted: Oct 27 2011, 03:00 PM


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QUOTE (Milo @ Oct 27 2011, 11:51 AM)
Does the class feature explicitly say that it can make masterwork items? Because if not, I would not consider those "simple".

It can make masterwork items, but he actually has to make the object. So he could make bandages or something if he knew first aid, or lockpicks if he knew how to pick locks.


Since spyglasses cost 1000gp, he's probably never even held one, let alone knows how it works. (I could explain how lenses work, but I still couldn't make a spyglass, even if I could make lenses with any curve.)
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Megamet
Posted: Oct 28 2011, 03:09 AM


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Soulcrafters make nothing BUT Masterwork items, and frankly a simple Spyglass isn't particularly hard to make. It's hard to UNDERSTAND the physics behind it, but you don't actually have to understand it to assemble it, much like how you don't need to know a squick about focal lengths to use a magnifying glass.

Now, here's where you'll argue about him still having to individually shape the lenses and align them such that they actually magnify what you are looking at and not result in a blurry mess, but no, he doesn't. All he has to do is to have handled a magnifying glass before, or any convex lens, for that matter, because his soulcrafts works by "By contemplating the ideal Forms of creation, a soulcrafter can manifest shadows of these Forms as soulcrafts". In other words, Copy-pasting. All he needs is to have handled any kind of Convex lens before, and he would be able to form that as his Soulcraft.

Now, the reason I'm pushing this issue so hard is because one of the soulcrafter's Augments, Attune vision, needs to be placed upon a tool associated with Vision-based Perception Checks. There are only two such items, the spyglass and the eyeglass, both of which require the use of lenses. If you ban that, then you've just invalidated one of the soulcrafter's class abilities.

Also, Vuanaunt, you can make a spyglass using a cardboard tube and 2 magnifying glasses. It won't be the Hubble telescope, but it's still going to work as a spyglass. It's nowhere near as complicated as you seem to believe.
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Masterly
Posted: Oct 28 2011, 08:47 PM


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I asked the creator of the class himself, and this was his response:
QUOTE
Hah! Do you know, this came up in my house game just last week? I am entertained. The short answer to your question is YES, he can craft a spyglass as a Spot tool, IF the character has had the occasion to handle and use one in the past. However, if he's never used a spyglass before, he's going to need to get his hands on one, learn to use it, and become familiar with it before he can soulcraft one. How long that might take is up to you, but I'd suggest that an hour of practice would be more than sufficient (provided he has at least 1 rank in Spot).

When manifesting a soulcraft, the most important factor is familiarity with the desired object and its intended use, without necessarily understanding how it is built. Simple objects that can be used without skill, such as a key or a chair, can be manifested by any soulcrafter who is familiar with his desired result. Objects that are potentially complicated to use (such as a sword, spyglass, or rope) require familiarity AND an appropriate proficiency or a rank in a relevant skill. The difficulty of crafting the object with the Craft skill is never important.

Happy gaming!

Until you get your own spyglass or have examined one thoroughly, I'm not going to allow any further Spyglass crafting.

And just for the record, I'm not going to allow you to retroactively have experience with spyglasses through your backstory.

QUOTE
Sir Clankaton here-" Alexei stuck his thumb out at Veleric. "-are going

Just to be clear, did you mean to say 'is' in place of or did you forget to add 'and I' after Sir Clankaton'?
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Megamet
Posted: Oct 28 2011, 11:32 PM


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There's supposed to be an I, yeah.
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Masterly
Posted: Oct 29 2011, 09:08 PM


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I'm reworking the Dex for our game. But first we need to clear up precision damage, (the basis of my reworking is founded on) and what it actually affects. Precision damage requires attacking some sort of weak point, in some creatures it is obvious, and in others it is more subtle.
Creatures Immune to Critical Hits:
*Aeons
*Elementals (Some elemental-types in my game can be sneak attacked, usually the more physical ones)
*Incorporeal (unless using a ghost touch attack) creatures
*Oozes
*Proteans (50% ignore)
*Swarms
Creatures Immune to Precision Damage (like Sneak Attacks)
*Elementals
*Incorporeal (unless using a ghost touch attack) creatures
*Oozes
*Proteans (50% ignore)
Creatures Immune to Flanking
*Swarms

The Pathfinder version of precision damage opens up the field for more precise attacks, and with this in mind I am making the following changes.

+Ranged weapons now add Dexterity to attack as precision damage.
+All weapons previously considered 'finessable' under Weapon Finesse may now replace Strength for Dexterity to their attack AND damage rolls. This damage is considered precision damage.
+Created a new feat [Deadly Grace]

Deadly Grace [Combat]
You combine the skillful approach to combat with the brute force of your attacks into one decidedly deadly dance.
Prerequisites: BAB +1; Proficiency with 3 or more martial weapons
Benefit: You may add half of your Dexterity modifier in addition to your Strength modifier to weapons that you would not otherwise be able to wield with finesse.

My first Homebrew feat.
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Megamet
Posted: Oct 30 2011, 01:26 AM


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Sounds great. Certainly does make ranged weapons more viable, especially for low strength characters. One question, though, do you need to take the weapon finesse feat in order to add Dex to Light weapon damage rolls, or is everyone capable of doing that?

Also, I do believe that Swarms should be immune to precision damage. Because, you know, how do you precision damage a swarm of bees?
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