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Rayven's Reign > Suggestions > CHAR APP: Words or Sentences?


Title: CHAR APP: Words or Sentences?


Bridget - March 5, 2012 04:07 AM (GMT)
Okay, so just a bit of a random thought of mine out of curiousity. Let me start with why we have to have an actual structure for our applications.

The reason why we have a preset number of sentences for the appearance, personality and history sections is because you are - or at least, I hope you are - creating a person. Or at the very least a person-esque creature. Which means two sentences explaining their personality and history leave the reader with absolutely no understanding of what your character is, what they want of their life or anything really. The preset is to encourage you to actually think about your characters and give us a detailed explaination into the mind of your character. Without these presets, I have little doubt that effort in creating characters will flop and we'll end up with 50,000 Mary/Gary Sue characters (OH, WO3 IZ MEH CUZ I HAZ SUCH A TRAGIC PAST BUT I'M PRETTY AND POPULAR AND RICH $$$ AND I'M SO MUCH BETTER THAN U).

Okay. xD So, here's the actual reason for this poll. What do you think would be better/easier for you? A sentence count like we have now or a word count? For example, let's put it at 150 words for appearance, 200 for personality and 300 for history. JUST. AN. EXAMPLE.

What would you guys think would be best? Vote, reply here and we'll discuss. <3

Briea - March 5, 2012 04:23 AM (GMT)
So, I voted for word count. The reason behind that is I'd like to see more detailed character apps. We have amazing writers here who are capable of making great characters. It makes it very difficult for me to RP with a character when I go to read the app (excited at this point) and I get there and I have NOTHING to work with (not so excited now). A bare minimum app that doesn't give me any feel for the character and even poorly structured sentences, that aren't really sentences, so that the correct number of lines is reached.

I think the word count will give the already great writers that extra push to put the thought into their characters that they need. It'll make it easier for us all to write together and get more epic threads going!

Knife Ears - March 5, 2012 05:49 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Briea @ Mar 4 2012, 11:23 PM)
So, I voted for word count. The reason behind that is I'd like to see more detailed character apps. We have amazing writers here who are capable of making great characters. It makes it very difficult for me to RP with a character when I go to read the app (excited at this point) and I get there and I have NOTHING to work with (not so excited now). A bare minimum app that doesn't give me any feel for the character and even poorly structured sentences, that aren't really sentences, so that the correct number of lines is reached.

I think the word count will give the already great writers that extra push to put the thought into their characters that they need. It'll make it easier for us all to write together and get more epic threads going!

^ That.

Kimi - March 5, 2012 11:16 AM (GMT)
Yeah, I say word count as well. My reasons for this are that; when you're writing a paragraph on your character app, you write down things as they flow etc etc. Then you realise that you have said all that there is to say, but you don't have enough sentences because you've merged two or more sentences together. That's when you have to split up the sentences and it kind of ruins the flow. (LOL, did that make sense?? XD)

Also, sentences can be long or short, right? So, for example, there are two applications - one with short sentences and one with long like so;

Short sentence. Short sentence. Another short sentence. Very. Short. Sentences. ETC.

This is a very very very very long sentence. This is also another long sentence with lots of detail etc etc. Even loooooooooooooooooonger sentence that goes on forever and ever with lots of conjoining words that join more than one 'sentence together'. Another long sentence with detail and explanation and all the good stuff that peeps love to read. Creativity, details etc etc etc blah blah blah. This is actually two sentences but I have used a conjoining word (i.e. "but" in this case) to make it one, but now it's three sentences as I used - no wait, four now.... As you can see, it's easy to write lots of words but get marked down for not writing enough sentences. Now I can only write a load of ramblings because I didn't even reach seven sentences to be equal to the amount the 'short sentence example'.


(I split up the conjoining sentence ...sentence XD into colours so you can see how one sentence can actually split up into four.)

As you can see, the difference is great between the two examples. I used 7 sentences for both examples. This is my point. Is it really fair to accept an application that has enough 'short' sentences that reach the quota, and then not accept another one which just doesn't reach the amount of sentences needed but they obviously have used more words (refrained from saying "put more effort in" because that might not be 100% correct).

So, I say word count! it's fair and words - well, of course they can vary in size, but someone isn't going to write a whole paragraph with just nonsense, one or two letter words; "A an oh he in what???!!! XD" So, it's fairer :3 much much fairer.

P.S. the only think i worry about is new people getting put off by the 'frequently used' word count monster X3 I guess we just need to reassure them it's for the best :3 :)

Ketic - March 5, 2012 06:40 PM (GMT)

The problem with word counts is that some people just don't write well. Others write slow, and when they find out they don't have inspiration enough to finish a paragraph or two they give up with the mindset to try again later. But they end up deciding what the heck, I didn't really feel like writing anyways.

Now you could argue that we don't want those kinds of members here, the ones that aren't driven to write and create and spin stories. I think we do though. RR should also be a community to help people write better if they want to improve, not set rules about what they have to be capable of writing before even being recognized in other member's eyes.

Bri made a really good point, and I completely agree with it. However, I personally think that most character development comes after the application is accepted. When the character actually gets out into the world and interacts with other strange people. I find myself going back and editing things on my characters ALL THE TIME. Constant development is a big thing, I don't think we should stress so much on what must be done before even beginning. If that makes sense.

It could also be argued that where people split up sentences to get more, they will just add unnecessary words in. and and but but this that, so forth. Circumstance and the writer will have a lot to do with it, personally thats why I think we staff will accept first and second characters even if they don't meet the guidelines completely.

I know I went off topic and this is about word count or sentence count, not requirements, so sorry. Word count is smarter in my opinion, but there is a lot to be said either way for both options. I think we should try it out. If we staff and members decide we don't like it, its not like we can't simply switch back.

Bre the Beast - March 5, 2012 06:55 PM (GMT)
Ketic has my vote, and as one of the people who mentioned this whole thing to you, Bridget I think he/she summed it up nicely. Those of you that have played with me know that I am a decent writer, able to create dialogue, plots, twists and turns and everything that comes with Role Playing. Like Ketic said though, when it comes to the app I lose focus or determination and ultimately just trash the whole thing. I think knowing everything about someones character so fully, right off the bat takes away the fun and mystery of bringing that person into the world. I like a character app to give me some detail about the person, generalness but personally I don't mind not knowing everything about someone before I play with them.

I still don't know wether to vote for sentence or word, but maybe we could try a different sheet all together? I don't know but those are my thoughts.

Briea - March 5, 2012 07:33 PM (GMT)
Every one has good points, but something Ketic said stood out to me. Not picking on you, just you had some very valid things that I wanted to give my view on :D <3


Yes, we sooooo very much want to help people improve their writing, but (and this is my issue...can't speak for anyone else) if they don't give me enough in the character app for me to be able to feel like I can RP with them then they're not getting all the opportunities to improve. They're limiting themselves that way, because it's very likely I'm not the only person who feels that way when they look at the app.

And if there's an issue with inspiration, how are they going to play the character anyway? If the inspirations missing for the app, then how is it going to be there for the RP?

I'm not saying make it a zillion words per section, but something has to be better then the three word sentences we get so much of now. You cannot improve if you do not work at it and try. There are too many people here willing to help if you're having issues or struggling for anyone to feel the need to give up.

Yes we want new people. We want them to feel welcome. We have to do that with more then just making the apps easy for them. We have to do it in the cbox, in our posts and in any other interaction we have with people on the site. Giving them an easy out on an app, having a character with such limited info you can't write with them and then they begin to feel left out of the RP's....that's not going to do it.



Ketic - March 5, 2012 07:46 PM (GMT)
^ I agree. This is why we have these threads, you guys rock. :D

"And if there's an issue with inspiration, how are they going to play the character anyway? If the inspirations missing for the app, then how is it going to be there for the RP?" Funny cuz I've asked my friend that so many times xD He's pretty much quit here now.

Its important to note what you said, that people have to want to be passionate about rping and writing. I do think that you can pretty much RP with anyone as long as they try though, the character application doesn't matter as long as it has met the requirements. I do glance over the character app once they post as the character in a thread I'm in, but sometimes I feel like that is cheating. I don't want to know everything about that character before my character even knows their name. Part of what makes it interesting (for me) is the discovery, even if it has been stated elsewhere.

Three word sentences and two sentence posts are pretty much recipes for RP death, so I won't argue there. Thats why we have the option to vote people out of threads and stuff like that.

Chrno - March 14, 2012 09:45 AM (GMT)
I do like the idea of what you guys have already said before me, making it a requirement so that x amount of words need to be there before a character is accepted. For some people it is easier than others to create their characters, and not to be cruel or picking on anybody, but I have looked over some of the characters created and wondered why they were accepted at all. I'm not saying my characters are all that great either, I know I have gone back and edited them a few times, but still, there should at least be enough information on a character to maybe explain why they are the way they are (if that made any sense lol). I guess its just my preference to have my characters be able to explain why they have anything they have at all. (Sorry, got off topic there)

Anyways, I think that we would benefit more by using both the word count and/or the sentence count. By that I mean let the person choose which they would like better. They would just need to fill out x amount of words or x amount of sentences. It's like Kimi said, sometimes breaking the flow of things sucks so they might chose to do the word count instead. As for the sentence counts, I think we can also make it have a word count minimum, like the English language says we should (which I believe is 10 words a sentence). That way, it prevents sentences from being too short to count as part of a sentence count, but of course we can increase that to maybe 15 or 20 words a sentence, or not to make it easier for people.

Well, that's my idea, I don't think anybody else would go for this, but I figured I would give it a shot and since it's not exactly word count or sentence count, I put it under other. (First XD)




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