Sick little guy here, need some helpful advise.

[ChiLady]

OK group I have a Lynx Netherland Dwarf buck that is in trouble. I noticed about 2 weeks ago that he had some clear snot coming out of his nose. So to be safe I gave him a small does of Pen G, he is my only Lynx buck I have and I couldn't take any chances with him. I then gave him about 4 days later a dose of Probiotics, to help him get back the good bacteria into his system after using the Pen G on him. He was fine for a time, but about a week after all of this he started showing stress signs. He was off his eating and just sat in the corner of his cage. I took a look and he had a huge spot of poop stuck to his butt, I cleaned him up and gave him some more probiotics. I then removed all food except hay and water, and some oats, I got some pedialyte for him to replace his electrolytes he is loosing in the diarrhea he is having. His tummy has the sloshing sound I have heard of others mentioned, and the clear jelly mucus coming out in his stool. It has been about a week now that I have been dealing with this, and he was in the beginning only having the clear mucus come out, but now he has stool coming out with the clear mucus. But he isn't eating really that much at all, and I think the only thing that is keeping him alive is the Nutri drops I have been giving him once a day, and the pedialyte. Now since he has lasted so long (two weeks) do you think it could still be Mucoid enteritis? Again this is what he has a good supply of pedialyte, oats, hay, and Nutri drops once a day, is there anything else I can give him to help him. He still fights me when I try and roll him over every day for his vita drops, so he isn't that far gone, but he isn't healthy either poor guy. Hope to hear from anyone soon, God bless.


Francine

[hanhrabbitry.com]

it sounds like it is coccidiosis ? u can use corid you get it at a feed mill. i hope the guy is going to be ok <_<

[BMF]

Check out this article on rabbit ileus: GastroIntestinal Stasis: The Silent Killer

The sloshing sound of his stomach and the muscus in his droppings made me think of a buildup of gas in his GI tract. I had a rabbit die from this because I had caught it too late- your rabbits symptoms sound very similar to his. If you have a feed store near you, try buying powdered electrolytes and dissolving them in water. Pedialyte is ok for a one time boost, but it's sugar content is too high if you're going to provide a constant supply. Oxbow makes a Critical Care mix that you can syringe feed him if he still won't eat hay or oats. You can give him simethicone baby gas relief drops and massage his stomach as often as you can to break up the gas.

Good luck. I hope he feels better soon :(

[ChiLady]

Do you know where I could get this product from Oxbow? I checked tractor supply and they don't have it.

[BMF]

I got mine from Vet Pets, but your local veternarian may have some in stock.

[ChiLady]

Today is a sad day, we lost Jimmy our Lynx buck, he tried to hold on but he just couldn't do it any longer. Thanks for all your helpful ideas, I will keep them so if this ever happens again I will be prepared. Thanks and God bless.

[SCG]

:( So sorry.

[Lia's Dwarfs]

I'm so sorry for your loss. :cry

[BMF]

:( So sorry for your loss

[ChiLady]

Thanks for your kind thoughts, we all have to go through this since this is a part of breeding and raising ND's. But it doesn't make it any easier, but they are so worth the down sides, since there are so many more up sides to owning these sweet little rabbits. Again I thank you for you kind words and all the help you all were, I will keep all the things I got to try and get him over this. And I hope will be able to catch this before it can go to far, if it happens again. God bless



Francine

[ChiLady]

OK group I have another bout with this gas issue, or bloat, I got some ND's from someone and they are weanlings, so I would assume along with being weanlings they have had a great shock from being moved from one place to another. Any ways they are having the same issues the my buck had. They haven't gotten to the mucus stage, but I hope they don't, so I have given them just hay and water with some Bounce Back electro lights in their water. My question is this, I am going to give them some baby gas relief, but I don't know how much to give or how often to repeat it. I also don't know how often I should repeat giving them the Bounce Back from Manna Pro, any one know?

[BMF]

My vet told me that it would be nearly impossible to over-dose on baby gas relief. What I did was give a syringe (the one that comes with the bottle) full everytime I fed my rabbit. Be sure to massage the belly too to break up gas.

Usually illeus occurs in older seniors, not weanlings so I wonder if that's what they really have.

[ChiLady]

I think it might be mucoid enteritis, the dry tiny stool and the sloshy tummy that is bloated makes me think that is what they have. It hasn't reached the stage of mucus so maybe it isn't mucoid enteritis, but everything else make it sound like it is.

[SCG]

Mucoid enteritis is usually seen as a jelly-like excretion with no solid fecal matter. Mostly in weanlings. If caught early, probiotics and hay might help. Usually by the time the mucus is seen, it's too late. It might also be due to coccisiodus which requires more aggressive treatment.

You seem to be having a lot of problems with this. What kind of hay are you feeding? What is the condition of the hay? What else do you give them?

You've stated you are not liking your feed. Ask your feed dealer if you can inspect other brands to find one that looks better. Even an unknown brand might be better than poor quality (or poorly stored) name brand. Check mill dates on the bag to make sure it's not too old.

[ChiLady]

I have finally found a good feed, I mentioned it on the other area. These little guys I got from another breeder and brought them home yesterday, they were not well when I got them. I think it just has to do with being weaned and then shipped around. The hay we have is good timothy / alfalfa hay, I don't normally feed hay to our rabbits any more. The hay is meant for our sheep and goat. So I am pretty sure that isn't the case here or with the buck that was sick. I just think with him it was that bug that went around, I did have a few show rabbits come down with the same thing, but they got over it when I gave them Pen G and then after that I gave them Probotics, and they are doing fine, my buck for what ever reason just never could get over it. These kits haven't gotten the mucus it started with really dry tiny poop that came out after they had drank the Bounce Back formula that I gave them. I have since gotten them to eat a little pumpkin at first, now some hay and water. I just gave them this afternoon some gas relief and they are doing a lot better, even the one that was grinding his teeth is eating. And their tummies have gone down a bit, and their litter pan is full of poop, going from dry little pebbles to regular sized moist poop. I am going to keep giving them what they are already getting, I just don’t know how often I should be giving them the gas relief, or the Bounce Back do you Dennie? God bless


Francine

:rolleyes: (A lightbulb moment. LOL) You know thinking of the issues that my rabbits were having with Manna Pro and then switching them to this feed, and the stress of showing could be what caused all these issues in the first place. Well with them finally getting the same kind of supplements all the time, maybe that will help with us not having these sort of issues any more.

[ChiLady]

I don't know if this has been posted on here yet, but I thought I should send this in case it hasn't. This answers a lot of my questions I have had with my rabbits, I hope it will help yours too.

Received this letter earlier today and thought I would post this. I had a conversation with someone yesterday that was telling me about large losses to some herds here in Ohio. This will at least give you a heads up of what might be happening if you have problems.

Hi Everyone,
As your friend and District 8 Director for the Mini Lop Club of America I feel it is my duty to keep you updated.
Be aware that a STRAIN of MUCOID ENTERITIS is running rapid througout the United States. It is believed that this is air borne although the exact cause is undetermined.
I have been in contact with Willis Plank my Kent Feed Consumer Product Manager. He has informed me of his knowledge and the knowlege of a veternarian he is working with in Ohio. I wish to pass it onto you.
We have outbreaks in Ohio, Michigan and Indiana.
I can speak from personal knowledge. I have been battling something for the past week and a half in my own herd. I have spent hours trying everything not being able to pin point the exact name until today.

The symptoms can vary from rabbit to rabbit which made it difficult to diagnose. We are looking at about a three week time from start to finish in your herd.

First the rabbit goes off feed and sits quietly in the corner. Their hair and coat go haywire. Some have diaherra with jelly secretion and others simply stop pooping. Some won't drink. Others will sit with feet in water and drink continuously.
They will nibble at hay while others beat the cage door down to get it. Some will ignore the feed pellets yet eat conditioner.
Some act as though they are starving for something.
They squent their eyes and sit as though they are doubled up with stomach cramps. In the final stages the eyes will become cloudy.
The stomach is bloated. Some will grind their teeth. Bottom line their intestinal tract shuts down and they die.

So here are some suggestions to aid you in the event it begins in your herd.

Give them all the hay and straw they can eat. If they won't eat that, try steamed rolled barley.
Keep them hydrated by inserting full syringe of water down throat several times daily..
Teramycin powder (broad spectrum antibotic) into the water is recommended by the Raising Better Rabbit and Cavy Guide Book to prevent futher infection.
I went to my local veternarian and purchased Reglan (gut motility medicine). Reglan is also given orally down the throat 2-3 times daily. (1cc per pound of body weight)
Another recommended product is Nutra Drops. I believe Vannachecks sell it. If caught in the earliest stages it helps get them back on tract.
Do whatever you can to keep your rabbit eating, drinking and their intestines functioning.
They lose flesh very quickly so be pepared.

So far I have only had one senior get it and I lost her. The rest have been 10 week to 4 month juniors.
I opend up the body cavity of the deceased senior to search for obivious signs and found her intestinal track was non functioning . The feces in the intestional tract were hard like small stones and part of the intestines were shrunk down to the size of small thread.

I have managed to save four young juniors and three more came down with it today. So hang in there my friends and pray for all of our precious bunnies.
Remember I am not a veternarian. I can only pass along information given to me and give you my first hand experience. Please keep me posted on whats happening with your herd and pass this along to your whom you can.

Thanks, Donna Mallory

[BMF]

Thanks for sharing this!!

I am about to head back to Ohio at Thanksgiving with our buns to put up in the new barn (yay!). Perhaps Teramycin water a couple days before, during, and after a show is a good idea just as a preventative no matter where you are in the US....esp. right after Nationals when rabbits from all over the country were in close proximity of each other. It's kind of scary that this might be air borne.

[ChiLady]

I was trying to find out how to put Teramycin into the water, I know there is a powder out there. But our TCS only carry's the ointment or the pill, so how can I get this stuff today. I am pretty certain my rabbitry already has it, and we are a small rabbitry so it doesn't take much to whip us out. I need to get this stuff today to help them out. Can you use the ointment or pill in some way? If so how much should I use it would be any where from 1 lb to 10.5 lbs.

[BMF]

Don't use the ointment in the water- although it is nice to always have that around for eye injuries.

My TSC only has the pills too, but it's the same thing as the powder. I picked up a cheap mortar and pestal from Marshall's and grind up the pills to make my own powder. I make 1 gallon at a time in a clean milk jug and store it in the fridge...replace it within a few days or when it starts to change color. For maintence add 1 tsp. Terramycin to 1 gallon water; for treatment add 2 tsp. Terramycin to 1 gallon water.

[ChiLady]

How much should I be giving to each rabbit? Mine range any where from 1 lb up to 10.5 lbs. Should I free feed it or give it to them by a syringe? How often should I be giving it to them? I worry about giving them this stuff in that great amount. When I looked at the pill bottle at TCS it said one pill to every 100 lbs. And I would assume one of those pills crushed up would be a little under a teaspoon. Isn't that a bit much to only a gallon of water?

[SCG]

My TSC carries powdered terramycin. Double check to see if yours does. I think I put about a 1/4 tsp per 8 oz of water.

I saw that bulletin too, and it seems to be purely speculation as to cause and agent. I'm not so sure pre-dosing with antibiotics will help, especially since no one knows what is causing it. You could do more harm than good.

Enteritis can also be caused by coccidocious which I don't think responds to broad spectrum antibiotic.

Antibiotics could actually cause enteritis by killing the gut flora along with any germs you are trying to eradicate.

Also. The idea to treat with antibiotics just before, during, and after a show. Remember what your own doctor tells you. Take the complete course of antibiotics. Otherwise, the germ becomes resistant and could even cause an allergy to the med. So just treating here and there, now and then, could be worse than not treating at all.

The best way to avoid these kinds of things is to breed strong bunnies that can handle stress. That means, as hard as it may be for a soft-hearted breeder, not trying too hard to save weaklings.

Just my thoughts and cautions on this.

[BMF]

Good points. Thanks for the info, Dennie!

[ChiLady]

I did go into our TCS and talked with the manager for about 45 min, she did a lot of calling around for me (really nice lady) any ways they don't carry the powder any more just the pill and ointment form.

Dennie you mention 1/4th a teaspoon to 8 oz water, but is that just for one rabbit, and I take it you free feed it to them in their water? Now is that just for ND's or is that the same amount you would give to a Cal?

[SCG]

I just got this from a local judge and vet. Take it as you will.

"While it is quite possible that there is an infectious agent spreading through causing these signs, the more likely explanation is that there is a string of these occurring as a coincidence.

For your education, I am attaching some notes on an "enteropathy" which is what is being described in these e-mails. It is NOT a specific disease rather a group of signs that can be caused by several diseases and/or conditions. I am also attaching some notes on coccidia which again can cause some of these problems."

*note. I didn't find the attachments he refers to.

[ChiLady]

Thanks for passing that on, if you do get the attachments I would love to see them. Anything is helpful when your running around with your head cut off. LOL God bless