Calls, possibly already figured out
vmachiel
Posted: Sep 27 2006, 03:20 PM


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What if the calls from the planes were real, but made with the phones that some planes have on every row? hmm.gif
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beached
Posted: Sep 28 2006, 07:32 PM


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Some of them were allegedly made by Airphone, like the infamous Mark Bingham call, however, the contents of all these calls did seem to have an element of fakery. Very strange. Other passengers claimed they were using their cell phones, and some familes claimed to recognize the number from the caller ID. Caller ID is easily faked, however, using a cellphone at full cruising altitude is very difficult, as even i've tested this hypothesis. Despite poor arguments from both proponesnt and opponents of the official story, my gut instinct tells me they were fake.
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Honk
Posted: Sep 29 2006, 05:18 PM


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QUOTE (vmachiel @ Sep 27 2006, 03:20 PM)
What if the calls from the planes were real, but made with the phones that some planes have on every row? hmm.gif

some calls came from cellphones, the "officials" told. And that can't be real ... you should try it on your next flight.
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beached
Posted: Sep 30 2006, 11:57 AM


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There's always going to be speculation from skeptics on the question of whether cell phone calls are actually possible from aircraft. We'll cite A. K. Dewdney’s Project Achilles; demonstrating the probability of a call going through at 32,000 ft to be 0.006. On the other hand, skeptics will cite the so-called experts of Popular Mechanics who claim calls are possible because the radius of the base station extends high enough. However, those so-called experts do not properly account for the problem of cell-switching at 500mph, nor do they take into consideration the "faraday cage" like surrounding of the aircraft fuselage.

Having surreptitiously conducted a few tests of my own aboard several carriers while above Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Chicago, the strongest signal I’ve ever received has been 2-3 bars which disappears after I press "send". I've never been able to complete a call, and have every time received a call "call failed" message. Bear in mind that this is not even full cruising altitude. Until Popular Mechanics actually conduct an experiment to prove that cell phones do work, rather than relying upon theoretical examples from so-called experts, I'm quite inclined to favor Dewdney's experiment.

With that said, there is always going to be controversy surrounding this issue. The only way to really put the phone calls (both cell phone and air phone) to bed would be to make an FOIA request for the billing records. If no billing records exist, or ever existed, then that would be the strongest proof the calls were fake. Arguing whether the calls were real or not due to the probability of a call going through is a little bit like my girlfriend arguing that I must have attempted to call her, simply because I was supposedly in an area of great cellular coverage, when in fact I didn't even have my phone switched on because I was out drinking with the guys!
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This post has been edited by beached on Sep 30 2006, 12:05 PM
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mid life crises
Posted: Oct 4 2006, 07:00 PM


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At this point even the billing records could be faked, right?
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vmachiel
Posted: Oct 5 2006, 11:30 AM


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yeah I think so, they've had 5 years
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beached
Posted: Oct 5 2006, 05:18 PM


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It wouldn't surprise me, especially since the so-called 911 Myths website has conveniently produced a copy of the flight manifests now including the alleged hijacker’s names! Personally, I think the authenticity of anything Mike Williams brings up is dubious, as he has a history of distorting / falsifying data. The zeal with which he fights to misinform / defend the official story is unbelievable, especially since many of his claims center around debunking straw men and/or distorted data. I have a gut feeling that as he claims to be a freelance writer, it is more likely Mike is doing this on behalf of a particular client; one who pays very well indeed... hmm.gif

This post has been edited by beached on Oct 5 2006, 05:25 PM
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Ashoka
Posted: Oct 13 2006, 06:57 PM


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Hi guys,

I've downloaded this summary from the evidence used in the Moussaoui trial.

This summary shows every single call made from the passengers from the four flights, stating, specifically, if a cell phone was used, the number called, the air phone and so on.

There are some “unknown” calls but the air phone has been identified.
All calls but four

guess the flight and guess the caller :-)

user posted image

Instead this one was unsuccessful

user posted image

Ashoka

This post has been edited by Ashoka on Oct 13 2006, 06:59 PM
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beached
Posted: Oct 13 2006, 08:13 PM


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Thanks Ashoka for the link! I'm already going through the calls made by Betty Ong and CeeCee Lyles to isolate the background sound... i hope to have a link to both the original and filtered versions in this thread soon! Thanks again, and keep up the good work! thumbsup.gif
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beached
Posted: Oct 15 2006, 02:02 PM


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Thanks again to Ashoka for the link! After listening to the calls which were actually recorded i've posted my comments on these below:

Flight 11:

At 8:18AM, flight attendant Betty Ong calls American Airlines and speaks with AA Agent Winston Sadler and Operations Agent Nydia E. Gonzalez. A transcript of the call can be found here:

http://team8plus.org/september11th/911-ong-tape.htm

Betty seems incredibly calm and collected considering the intensity of the situation that is supposedly unfolding before her. There’s certainly no hint from the background ambience that anything is wrong. Listen carefully to the call where she claims someone is coming back to where she is – there is a pause where we can hear her talking with someone else, albeit most of this is inaudible. Notice the sudden noise that comes on the line just as this other person begins to talk in the background, and then disappears as soon as that person stops talking. If she had been talking to this other person via the intercom that would be an explanation, however, this person has come back to where she is, therefore there would be no need for the intercom. It sounds as though this has been patched in from another line, which seems very strange to me. Also, listen to where she mistakenly calls this flight 12, however, is corrected by another female voice – there is a peculiar quality to the sound which may have been induced by distortion, however, nonetheless it is rather odd.

The second half of the call is between Nydia and the AA emergency line. When Nydia begins to speak with the agent over at AA, she begins by saying “everyone’s been stabbed”, she says nothing about a “hijacking”. Later Nydia says “they can’t get into the cockpit” which could refer to other flight attendants, but this does not imply a hijacking – in fact she never mentions a “hijacking”.

Moving on, the male voice then says “These two passengers were from first class?” - but who is he referring to? Are these the people who were stabbed, or the hijackers who were never brought up?

Nydia then begins talking about the 2 gents who were sitting in Wail Alshehri and Waleed Alshehri's seats. She then said that “They are in the cockpit with the pilots” to which the male voice replies “Who’s helping them, is there a doctor onboard?”. It seems pretty clear that this guy believes the people from these two seats were hurt, again nothing about hijackers.

Nydia asks “Is there a doctor on board, Betty, that’s assisting you guys? You don’t have any doctors on board. Okay. So you’ve gotten all the first class passengers out of first class?”. Is Nydia talking about the “hijackers” or worried about people who are injured? She may be talking about stabbed passengers being brought into the cabin. It seems strange that if people were coming back from business class the people in coach wouldn’t know there was a problem.

Later the male voice says “We contacted Air Traffic Control, they are going to handle this as a confirmed hijacking. So they’re moving all the traffic out of this aircraft’s way.” Did Air Traffic Control get their information only from AA security? If this were the case they would be the first ones to bring up a “hijacking”. Also, it appears that there is no one else on the phone besides Nydia and Air Traffic Control. I’m presuming Air Traffic Control have made this assumption by the strange transmission from the cockit (below) that took place around the same time as Betty’s call.


At 8:24AM the following transmission was received from the cockpit. No information on the altitude is known as the transponder had supposedly been shut-off:

Air Traffic Control: “Is that American 11 trying to call?”
Voice: “We have some planes, just stay quiet and everything will be okay. We're returning to the airport.”
(Inaudible speech in backround)
Air Traffic Control: “And who's trying to call me here?”
(Inaudible speech in backround)
Air Traffic Control: “American 11 are you trying to call?”
Voice: “Nobody move, everything will be okay. If you try to make any moves you'll endanger yourselves and the airplane. Just stay quiet.”
(Background): “We'll have to get up but he asked us not to move”

It was followed by another transmission at 8:33AM:

Voice: “Nobody move please, we are going back to the airport. Don't try to make any stupid moves.”

This transmission was allegedly Atta and was made after Betty Ong began speaking with American Airlines, telling them that “the pilot, everyone’s been stabbed” and that “we can’t get into the cockpit, the door won’t open”, however, if that were the case, who are the people speaking in the background? It would appear there are at least two other people in the cockpit with Atta, all speaking with American accents. These people sound incredibly relaxed considering they have supposedly witnessed a stabbing, or possibly even been stabbed themselves! If these are the pilot and the flight crew, they don’t sound as though they’ve put up much of fight.

A pilot’s duty is to the safety of his passengers and aircraft before anything else. By giving up his seat so easily to a person(s) with a box cutter would put him in neglect of his duty of care towards others. Bear in mind the controls of the aircraft are as much a weapon in the hands of the pilot, and a box cutter to any supposed “hijacker”. All he would need to do is perform a “barrel roll” – this would throw and persons standing to the ground, while at the same time disorientating them. They would have realized that by wanting the pilot to give up his seat this was no ordinary hijacking – in fact, aside from Hollywood flicks I can think of any similar real-life examples.


Flight 93:

At 9:28AM the following transmission was received from the cockpit. The aircraft was approx 35,000ft:

Voice: Mayday! Mayday! Maday!
Background (Screeching voice): Get out!

It was followed 26 seconds later by another transmission:

Voice: Mayday! Get out of here! Get out of here!

Approximately 10 minutes later, a voice, allegedly that of Ziad Jarrah came on the radio:

"Ladies and Gentlemen: Here the captain. Please sit down. Keep remaining seating. We have a bomb onboard. So, sit."

Approximately 7 minutes later, after climbing to 40,000ft, the voice came back on the radio:

"Ah! Here’s the captian. I would like you all to remain seated. We have a bomb onboard, and are going back to the airport, and we have our demands. So, please remain quiet."

Firstly, I'm somewhat perplexed as to how the FBI was able to identify the man behind the voice as Ziad Jarrah, especially when it was almost completely drowned out by feedback! Low-bandwidth devices such as phones and 2-way radios have a tendency to transmit the human voice somewhat imperfectly where many characteristics of our voice are simply lost. Such artifacts include electronic fuzzing and distortion which have the same effect upon the human voice as an out of focus video camera to a face. While the picture may bear a resemblance to someone, the more out of focus it becomes, the more general the appearance. This is also true of the human voice – the more distortion that is added, the more ambiguous it will become.

In these transmissions we also have the added problem of feedback which further drowns our vocal characteristics. Whether this feedback was deliberately added I can’t say, however, it has the effect of making positive voice recognition virtually impossible.

Anyone who has worked with noise reduction software will know that feedback and hum are very difficult to reduce, let alone completely remove without destroying the original sound. Maybe the government has state of the art software which can actually do this? Maybe they are keeping it a secret? It’s a possibility; however, it’s very unlikely. This is because you cannot restore detail to a waveform which isn’t there, for the same reason you could never expect to watch a normal DVD on an HDTV and benefit from the extra resolution – the detail was never in the original recording. In the same way these alleged transmissions from Flight 93 could never be positively identified as Jarrah, as at least 60 – 80% of the signal is noise! It’s very much like attempting to identify a suspect from a partial fingerprint that has become heavily contaminated.

Furthermore, the claim of this being Jarrah becomes even more bizarre when we consider that the alleged phone calls from Flight 93 only claim there to be 3 hijackers, yet the FBI introduce Jarrah as a 4th! However, Jarrah’s family provided evidence days after 9/11 that he wasn’t even onboard, and even if he were it would only have been as a passenger and as much a victim as anyone else.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/0....terror.jarrah/

Finally, is it merely another coincidence that this man also pushed the “wrong” button when attempting to use the intercom – conveniently connecting him to Air Traffic Control where his words could be recorded?

It is not at all far fetched that these calls/transmissions were fake, on the contrary this makes it a lot easier for the perpetrators. For instance, the transmissions allegedly received from AA11 and 93 would have most likely been recorded on a sound stage well in advance of 9/11. Utilizing the fact that these could be broadcast from a vehicle or building that is in the same general direction of the flight path on the same frequency, they would be able to have Air Traffic Control hear these while being none the wiser as to their origin. Even by employing the tracking / fingerprinting equipment used by the FAA to identify stray transmissions, differentiating these from the real aircraft would be extremely difficult – even more so if the transponder had been shut-off.

Interestingly, the only call expressly confirmed as a cell phone was the second call made by CeeCee Lyles which didn’t go through. However, this is in direct conflict with the official story, as considerably more cell phone calls were made – also some relatives expressly stated receiving the caller ID on their phones. Possibly this is an innocent mistake on the part of the Moussaoui prosecutors, however, it seems to be a great omission. If CeeCee were making that call from a cellphone at around 20,000ft while traveling 500mph, then the reception is incredible! However, the only real way to put this to the test would be to replicate the airplane’s flight path and attempt a call on several different phones from the same altitude / speed as flight 93. Listening to the background sound during her call, everything seems eerily calm for a hijacked flight. There are a few moments where I can hear something like scraping, but this really could be anything.

Some people have said that the very claim the calls were faked has alienated researchers with the victims’ families, however, I strongly disagree with this. If there were any sign these calls could have been real I would never have entertained the idea. Unfortunately, each call exhibits at least one sign of fakery, whether this be sheer lack of emotion like Betty Ong’s, conflicting information as per Madeleine Sweeny, or even poor-scripting like Mark Bingham’s. I can see exactly why the perps would have faked these calls, as it gives them complete editorial control of the details given out such as “Arabs”, “bocxutters”, etc. Other calls, such as CeeCee’s are designed to be the emotional leverage as part of a propaganda campaign. After all, how could you listen to that call and not feel disgust for these alleged “hijackers”? If anyone has any doubts about the ability to mimic someone’s voice, then I suggest they look here http://www.audio4fun.com/
While the software on that page may be somewhat crude by comparison to technology owned by the military, it does give a good insight into how easy this can be. For instance, you can morph your own voice to preset “nickvoices” in real time.

There are other people have suggested that too much emphasis has been put on these calls; however, I have to remind them that these amount to the very flimsy evidence upon which the claim of “Arab looking men” came from. It was these very calls and convenient “mistakes” on the part of the “hijackers”, the government have based their claim that by bombing the Middle East we are indeed going after the right people. Without any of these calls, the claim of Arabs with box cutters would have crumbled faster than the twin towers!
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Ashoka
Posted: Oct 15 2006, 07:42 PM


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good work!

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vmachiel
Posted: Oct 16 2006, 10:16 AM


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