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 Wtc Tower Vs Hiroshima Dome, Compare WTC Tower and Hiroshima Dome
shoon
Posted: Aug 25 2006, 09:09 PM


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I am a Japanese. Recently I saw a movie about Hiroshima and it made me wonder.

Do you know that a dome, which was exposed to 4000 degree C heat and radiation which even changed copper to nickel, still stands in Hiroshima.
Atomic bomb was exploded 600m away and building broke, of course, but still the structure is still there, even after over 60 years.

I do not think kerosene heat (1000 degree C at most and it would had been no more than 400 degree C) melted the whole building down.

I am requesting to add this fact when "Loose change 3RD Edition" are made. mega.gif

Or American may not know about the truth of atomic bomb well, firtst of all.
user posted image

This post has been edited by shoon on Aug 25 2006, 10:02 PM
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chucksheen
Posted: Aug 25 2006, 09:29 PM


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There are excellent documentaries on the attrocities the corrupt USA government performed in Japan and other places.

Thanks for joining and sharing your info.

Please spread the word, organize and get involved.

The Japanese government is influenced by Bush cronies puppet strings and no one in the world should stand for this.

respect.gif salute.gif
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shoon
Posted: Aug 26 2006, 04:58 AM


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Japan is lost country after all. worthy.gif
Unfortunately we still have to obey what American government says.worthy.gif
Fortunately since American prohibited Japanese religion after war, we are not religious anymore. So I appreciate what American did. thumbsup.gif

However actual American is still too religious worthy.gif and religion create a lot of stupid people. thumbdown.gif But I see some churches are doing right things. thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by shoon on Aug 26 2006, 05:09 AM
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gordon ross
Posted: Aug 26 2006, 10:41 AM


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Shoon,

A Japanese magazine recently conducted interviews with Prof. Jones, and others as research for an article on the 911 cover up.
The magazine was described as,

Weeky Gendai magazine is published by Japan's largest Publisher
Kodansha and is one of the largest weekly magazines in Japan with its
circulation of 600,000 nationwide Japan.
We cover the general topics such as Politics, Economy, Social
Incidents, Culture, Entertainment, Sports etc.

Can you tell us if it has been published yet ? Perhaps an idea of what effects it has if it is published,

Gordon.
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shoon
Posted: Aug 26 2006, 07:28 PM


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Sorry, Gordon.

I have been living in Indianapolis for 13 years. So I do not know about Japan so much anymore.

Since I have known about this matter for over two years, I asked Japanese who came to USA and they did not know about it at all. Japanese who is living here do not know about it, of course, because they are just like American in Midwest. Every time when I see people, I preach like Jehovah’s Witness.

I am glad to hear Japanese is doing right thing. However stubborn Japanese government is even worse than US Government. US Government would give great pressure to Japanese government just like they have been. American does not seem to know that American Government is not nice to other countries. Again Japan is an unconditionally surrendered country though people seem to start forgetting it.

I made one-hour DVD about 911, which is edited from many 911 related videos, because I found out that people do not have time to see this kind of video and they are not capable of viewing AVI or MPEG format videos. Loose change 2nd edition is great movie but it seems to be too long for many people.


Shoon
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nicolas
Posted: Aug 27 2006, 12:00 AM


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I'm always amazed to see that hardly anyone considers that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes.

What do you mean when you say "Since I have known about this matter for over two years, I asked Japanese who came to USA and they did not know about it at all. Japanese who is living here do not know about it, of course, because they are just like American in Midwest. " ?

What are you talking about? About the fact that the Dome is still there??? I've often noticed japanese people to be quite ignorant about history etc, but that would be just too much. That dome is a symbol very well known all over the world... I think. At least it's a symbol for anti nuclear activists, I'm almost sure of that. I hope you're not offended about what I say about japanese people. It's just that sometimes I happened to know more about great japanese poets, the Meijo revolution, ancient history of Japan... than Japanese people I met. And don't worry, all the most ignorant people I've ever met were all Americans tongue.gif . And anyway, I'm moving to Japan biggrin.gif .
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shoon
Posted: Aug 27 2006, 09:25 PM


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Nicolas

>I'm always amazed to see that hardly anyone considers that the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes.
We were taught that if American did not drop the Atomic bombs Japanese would have fought until all Japanese die. This idea can be one of the brainwash by American government. But all Japanese practiced how to fight with bamboo spear and they were ready for fight at main land by everybody.

>What do you mean when you say "Since I have known about this matter for over two years, I asked Japanese who came to USA and they did not know about it at all. Japanese who is living here do not know about it, of course, because they are just like American in Midwest. " ?
I am sorry that I am not good at explaining. I meant that since I found out that 911 terrorist acts was American internal job over two years ago, I have been trying to tell people, especially Japanese, facts of 911. However people, including Japanese, in Midwest do not have good enough information or are not capable of understanding the facts. I felt that most of Christian intends to give up thinking if the matter is too big because many things are up to the GOD. Their logic seem to be locked up or not taking right path. I apologize that if you are a Christian. But their logic is usually wrong. We see many great scientists who is supposed to be a Christian but I doubt that they were so called “Christian”. For instance DaVinci was accused and he was forced to being Christian. Anyway I do not know so well about this kind of history so I should stop telling more. And I like David Ray Griffin and other Christian who understand 911 true facts.

>What are you talking about? About the fact that the Dome is still there???
This “Atomic dome” was called “Industry and commerce enhancing building”. It was one of the very rare steel enforced buildings. Rest of the houses were wooden houses so that destroyed completely. But this steel enforced building survived. I should not say survived but compared to TWC tower not being survived.
user posted image


I will not be offended because I did not like Japanese before I came to USA. That’s why I came to United States. But I found out that people are same. Nowadays American who tries not to understand about truth of 911 is even worse than ignorant Japanese. After all, wherever you go, 50 percent of people are below average, of course. Since you are going to Japan, you will find out that people are same. But if you do not understand each other there always will be conflicts even among the same language speaker but you will see more conflicts if you speak different language.

Good luck in Japan!

P.S. There was an American guy who tried to learn Japanese at cooking school. Guess what is problem here! Japanese has two distinctive ways of speaking between mail and female. So that this brilliant American speak like a gay even though he is not gay. Male intend to learn from female and female intend to learn from male so that this kind of problem happens a lot. I do not dislike gay but I am just warning you as your future reference.

This post has been edited by shoon on Aug 28 2006, 04:24 AM
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shoon
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 02:28 AM


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"Commercial jet with fuel is more powerful than atomic bomb" theory. doh1.gif
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zootalures
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 02:55 AM


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QUOTE (shoon @ Aug 30 2006, 02:28 AM)
"Commercial jet with fuel is more powerful than atomic bomb" theory. doh1.gif

Goes along well the LM taking off from the moon and achiving the orbit speed of the capsule to dock, but where did they put all the fuel?

But even though the dome held out while the twin towers fell, both events targeted civilians and both events were caused by the same country.
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shoon
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 12:10 PM


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If you think Apollo Moon Landing was fake, you should learn science including math.

Launching massive weight with moon landing unit, vehicle, orbiting pod and returning pod from the earth and launching small unit from the moon without vehicle is quite different.

Anyway I do not know about detail of it. However I do know that they do not know about science regarding light. They mentioned that shadow is not parallel. But they do not know about wide-angle lens? I assume (I really do not know) that room inside space ship is so small they had to use wide-angle lens and he forgot to change the lens or he wanted pictures closely.

If the light were artificial light, it would spread out instead of going toward center.
Or it would have multiple shadows.
user posted image

I hate to hear some people mix up with stupid movie or book. People have seen too many stupid movies.

Armageddon: they are driving around on the meteor and jumping over cliff. I do not think it would be like that because its gravity would be almost none.

True lies: Whey atomic bomb exploded, they saw a light from bomb and they put their hand over their face. I think they are completely dead instantly. Even though they did not die at that moment, they will die within few years from cancer.

Spiderman 2 : A big hot ball dropped in the water and it’s over. If they had at least phreatic eruption, that movie would have been two thumbs up.

Therefore people cannot tell the truth of 911 facts because of false movies.

Learn real math and physics if you have time to read Bible!
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Sanders
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 01:10 PM


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Irashai, Shoon.

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zootalures
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 02:40 PM


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QUOTE (shoon @ Aug 30 2006, 12:10 PM)
If you think Apollo Moon Landing was fake, you should learn science including math.

Launching massive weight with moon landing unit, vehicle, orbiting pod and returning pod from the earth and launching small unit from the moon without vehicle is quite different.

Anyway I do not know about detail of it. However I do know that they do not know about science regarding light. They mentioned that shadow is not parallel. But they do not know about wide-angle lens? I assume (I really do not know) that room inside space ship is so small they had to use wide-angle lens and he forgot to change the lens or he wanted pictures closely.

If the light were artificial light, it would spread out instead of going toward center.
Or it would have multiple shadows.
user posted image

I hate to hear some people mix up with stupid movie or book. People have seen too many stupid movies.

Armageddon: they are driving around on the meteor and jumping over cliff. I do not think it would be like that because its gravity would be almost none.

True lies: Whey atomic bomb exploded, they saw a light from bomb and they put their hand over their face. I think they are completely dead instantly. Even though they did not die at that moment, they will die within few years from cancer.

Spiderman 2 : A big hot ball dropped in the water and it’s over. If they had at least phreatic eruption, that movie would have been two thumbs up.

Therefore people cannot tell the truth of 911 facts because of false movies.

Learn real math and physics if you have time to read Bible!

Japan is going to the moon, so let us all know.... 1999, 2000, 2002, 2005... when is it now?

And again:
Even though the dome held out while the twin towers fell, both events targeted civilians and both events were caused by the same country.

Talk about someone who can't read.... look.gif

Yea, the bible causes all the wars... WWI? WWII? Veitnam? Iraq? ..... Please explain!

Hizb'Allah are the only people who actually took on the muti-national corporate and banking wackos. The rest of you sit and watch 3,000 of your own citizens die and cower like Bush is a big angry god with super powers. Like you do with all your human overlords. Putting your nose in the holy book won't make it brown like where most people put it.


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shoon
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 05:15 PM


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QUOTE
Even though the dome held out while the twin towers fell, both events targeted civilians and both events were caused by the same country.


As long as people like you or who visit here exist more, this country will become better. I take it granted for that any country ruins.

However I would like to change it better if it is possible.

Bible itself is not so bad. People who interpret it wrong seem to be bad. But I say if people have time to study bible, they should study math. This math I am talking about is not just calculation. When people say “math”, it seems to be calculation. People should study math as logic study. Most of American does not have correct logic due to Bible.

Bible is merely a book. A book shows non-fiction and fiction story, history, moral, etc.
Obvious example of fiction part is about Adam and Eve.
Jesus Christ may be a great philosopher and a nice person but he was a god or son of a god. If he was son of a god, everybody is a son/daughter of a god.
If he was son of a god, he must have raped Maria. But why do people admire this god? He even told somebody to sacrifice his son. I think this god has pretty bad attitude.
Japanese have same kind of history book. Therefore Japanese emperors used to be gods.
Thanks to USA, it denied. Showa emperor declared to become a human. wavetowel2.gif
Bad part of Bible is Jesus Christ has been dead for many years. He can not declare he is a human. thumbdown.gif
(Continue)


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shoon
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 05:43 PM


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Second thought this is off topic. I should this Christtian matter to somewhere else.


I just want to say here and I am asking you if we can use this theory, if you see somebody who cannot understand 911 facts.
The theory is "A commercial airplane with jet fuel would be more powerful than atomic bomb."
That's all.
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Squibley
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 07:29 PM


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QUOTE (shoon @ Aug 30 2006, 05:43 PM)
Second thought this is off topic. I should this Christtian matter to somewhere else.


I just want to say here and I am asking you if we can use this theory, if you see somebody who cannot understand 911 facts.
The theory is "A commercial airplane with jet fuel would be more powerful than atomic bomb."
That's all.

Except the 9/11 planes did not flattern 4 square miles of New York City, as Little Boy did to Hiroshima.
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shoon
Posted: Aug 30 2006, 10:17 PM


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That's my point.

Even though most of houses were wooden frame, it had extraordinary HEAT, radiation and wind to knock down many structures and wide area.

Heat was at least 4000degreeC on the building surface. I assume (and do not know for sure) heat on steel frame was transferred quickly enough so that it did not collapse.
Could some one explain to me why it did not collapse?
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shoon
Posted: Aug 31 2006, 05:43 PM


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To zootalures

QUOTE
Japan is going to the moon, so let us all know.... 1999, 2000, 2002, 2005... when is it now?


I am trying to respond your commnets little by little.

I do not know well but I think Japanese are too cautious to launch a rocket to the moon.
Economy has been bad for years, too.
Do you know “Linear motorcar”? It is magnetic rail driven floating train. They have been developing for many years. They still worry about effects on human body and money would be problem.
Now I heard that Chinese would have this railway system because (probably) they do not care for effects on human body.

Anyway, at this point, going to the moon would be too expensive to make money now.
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clpo13
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 05:59 PM


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The dome was 600 meters away from the hypocenter, right? Well, consider that the actual detonation of Little Boy occured 580 m above the ground. I'm sure that didn't help it's destructiveness.

Also, the Trinity test explosion at Alamogordo used a device similar to Little Boy and created a crater 3 m deep and 330 m wide. Granted, that has little to do with the heat, but if the Trinity test only took out a 330 m wide section of desert, Little Boy couldn't have caused very much more heat-induced damage outside of that. The heat caused by Little Boy ranged from 7200 to 1000 C, which occured for a relatively short amount of time, not long enough to melt the steel of the Hiroshima dome which was a fair distance from the explosion. In the case of the WTC, the beams didn't necessarily melt, which you are assuming. The maximum temperature of burning jet fuel is somewhere around 980 C, however, steel loses quite a bit of its strength if subjected to temperatures of just under 702.5 C. This temperature will not melt the steel, but it will cause it to lose much of its integrity.

In the case of Hiroshima, what most likely demolished wooden buildings farther away would have been the shock wave, which wouldn't have affected sturdier, steel-framed buildings. The high temperatures would have greatly affected only those buildings at the hypocenter.
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shoon
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 07:30 PM


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Hi, clpo13!

You gave me the answer that I exactly expected.

And you are not motioning the speed of heat transfer. Please explain how the kerosene heat can keep up with the speed of heat transfer of massive steel frame.

Atomic bomb evaporated a lot of things, such as human, woods, and even some metals, just like titanium engines evaporated in Pentagon. Some people were imprinted on the wall.

I have never seen a BENT steel column from the WTC site. All the steel columns appear to be chopped in pieces. If the steel frames have been buckled, shouldn’t we see some buckled frames?

Anyway according to your explanation, jet airplane seems to be very dangerous. We should ban those dangerous vehicles. If commercial airplane was so powerful, why did you make atomic bombs and dropped them?
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clpo13
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 07:43 PM


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Commerical airplanes are dangerous in the same way that compressed air is dangerous. It does its job, but if you use it wrong (say, by setting it on fire), it can cause problems.

I'm no expert on any of this, though, so I won't be able to give you a proper explanation. I would assume that the jet fuel weakened localized portions of the support girders, which buckled and snapped when they became too weak to support the weight above them.

It's like melting a penny. Subject the penny to intense heat for a few moments and relatively little will happen. Hold it above a steady propane flame, and it will eventually begin to melt.

Now, I realize pennies are different than steel girders, but the idea is still the same.
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shoon
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 08:34 PM


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You are still missing my point.
Penny is small and heat can be sustained within a single penny. Temperature would keep increasing because transfer rate of air is 0.0000565 cal/cm/K/s. Now if you try to heat up massive copper, it is totally different story. Copper’s heat transfer rate is 0.923 cal/cm/K/s and much faster than air. Even steel is 0.116 cal/cm/K/s so that it would be much faster than air. Therefore if you just heat local area of large stuff, heat would scatter around and temperature would not rise so high. If you do not understand remove the heat sink of CPU of your computer and touch it. You get skin barn on your finger in a second and broken CPU.

Penny’s melting point is only 1083 degree C. Steel would be at least about 1800 degree C. Melting point is quite a different.

You mentioned compressed air but how do you get compressed air in the building. Jet engine uses turbine compressed air. Once engine stall it is over. Rocket engine may carry compressed air. Was compressed air in a COMMERCIAL airplane?
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jthompson99
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 09:30 PM


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QUOTE (shoon @ Aug 30 2006, 12:10 PM)
If you think Apollo Moon Landing was fake, you should learn science including math.

You obviously have done no research my friend if you think the we actually landed on the moon. There are 3 or 4 good documentaries out there that prove 100% that is was an absolute impossibility that we ever landed on the moon. When I get in to discussions with people and they tell me that they think we landed on the moon, they lose all credibility with me. I am as confident that we didn't land on the moon as I am that 9/11 was an inside job. There is no doubt about either one.
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shoon
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 10:16 PM


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Since they have landed on the moon, they are not trying any more. If they did not land on the moon, probably they are still trying.

Have you ever calculated the required speed to get out from earth or moon?
If you have, I am surprised. Probably you have learned physics on Bible or something different from physics I know. If you haven’t, calculated it. You will find out why it is so much different between earth and moon.

Anyway we should not mix up with moon landing matter. That's why people think 911 matters is same as moon landing matter. Please do not mix up becasue stupid people would get confused.
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jthompson99
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 10:27 PM


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Well, for the record, I don't believe in the bible or religion for that matter. So I don't know what you are trying to get at. You believe we landed in the moon, that is your right to believe so, but I think you are nuts.......!
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clpo13
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 10:37 PM


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And I think you're nuts for thinking we didn't.

Anyways, back on topic. Again, shoon, I'm not expert on the matter. The compressed air bit was just an analogy. Compressed air can be dangerous, yet it's used often. Just so, jet airplanes are dangerous, yet they're used often as well. It's not an important point, just a comparison.

Also, it could be considered that the steel didn't actually melt. It takes quite a bit of heat to melt steel, but not quite as much to cause it lose its integrity. Take tempered steel, for instance. It's treated to make it especially strong. Break it, however, and no matter how well you weld it back together, it will be weaker than before. In the case of the towers, sustained heat caused the steel to change from an extremely strong form of steel to a substantially weaker form, which would have increased the odds of it breaking.
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shoon
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 10:54 PM


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Before I discuss with you, I should know your background.
Are you a Christian?
Are you a Creationist?
If not, do you believe other religion?

Are you a Christian Scientist?
Are you a Scientist?
If not, did you study real science especially excluding Christian Science?
Do you understand math?
Do you understand logic?
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shoon
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 10:59 PM


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clpo13>Break it, however, and no matter how well you weld it back together, it will be weaker than before.

I do not understand your logic. Welding is melting steel. It is once melt and nothing to do with heat up half way of melting point.
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jthompson99
Posted: Sep 7 2006, 11:18 PM


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QUOTE (shoon @ Sep 7 2006, 10:54 PM)
Before I discuss with you, I should know your background.
Are you a Christian?
Are you a Creationist?
If not, do you believe other religion?

Are you a Christian Scientist?
Are you a Scientist?
If not, did you study real science especially excluding Christian Science?
Do you understand math?
Do you understand logic?

I am not a Christian?
I do not really believe in any religion.

I am intelligent.
I was a computer programmer for 10 years.

I understand physics, match and logic. I enjoy reading and studying all about science.

I went into this thing with an open mind and willing to accept any result.
I watched 4 documentaries about the moon landing. I have read everything online I could possibly find about the moon landing and space. After all of that, I came to the conclusion that there in NO WAY possible that we landed on the moon in 1969. I am 100% positive. All of these people out there including "clpo13" that think we landed on the moon are brainwashed and are not free thinkers. They were raised believing this nonsense and they do not know any better.

Sorry I called you "nuts", but I find it strange that someone who I believe is intelligent could believe we landed on the moon.

This post has been edited by jthompson99 on Sep 7 2006, 11:19 PM
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zairair
Posted: Sep 8 2006, 01:24 AM


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QUOTE (jthompson99 @ Sep 7 2006, 03:18 PM)

Sorry I called you "nuts", but I find it strange that someone who I believe is intelligent could believe we landed on the moon.

I don't see why you think that's strange... There are many smart astronomers/scientists/engineers/mathematicians in this world who believe in the moon landing...

Edit: I bet if you asked or worked for or gave a lot of money to NASA, they would let you look through one of their superscopes and find the flag on the moon and test the superscope to make sure it's not fake.

Edit-ontopic: Wow this is really interesting. The frame is still standing where as WTC 7's frame is not and WTC 7 was only affected by raging fires/debris.

Raging fires + debris > Atomic bomb (structural dmg) ???

This post has been edited by zairair on Sep 8 2006, 01:39 AM
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shoon
Posted: Sep 8 2006, 01:49 AM


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Hi, zairair!

I was watching TV movie about Hiroshima and I wondered if I can use it to convice people. doh1.gif

Don't you think it is amazing that copper sheet became nickel sheet? It is an alchemy!

>I bet if you asked or worked for or gave a lot of money to NASA, they would let you look through one of their superscopes and find the flag on the moon and test the superscope to make sure it's not fake.

It will not work. I think they will claim, “This vision can be created with CG!”
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