"Ringleader" of Hijackers, Why Atta?
JackD
  Posted: Feb 14 2006, 01:05 AM


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This post is pure speculative musing designed to provoke reflection.

When did we find out about 'hijackers?' -- i recall it was Sept 13-16. Photos, producted by FBI went up on CNN. Quickly, we were instructed to focus on the apparent 'ringleader' mohammed atta.

This started me thinking about some oddities regarding the odd mr Atta.

#1 He had multiple identities (fervent muslim avatar vs. stripper-loving hard drinking coke snorter avatar)
#2 he lived in germany, yet according to rudi dekkers woudl not speak german
#3 His father claimed he was alive and spoke to him Sept 12
#4 he was in Bay Colony or whatever hotel resort just HOURS before our president was there (bizarre or what?)
#5 flies all the way to Portland Maine the night before. leaves face and credit record all over the place. stares down poor gate agent in Maine with his evil gaze. packs a hijacker goody-bag for the portland-logan flight. then ALMOST MISSES Flt 11 due to late connection./

#6 he looks creepy, cold, and evil. Murderous. hate-filled.

Let's expand on number6 . If you were in HOllywood, and casting a villain, who would you pick out of the 19 hijackers to take the role of "lead villain"
look at the other 18 photos. a bunch of zeros. some even look chubby and harmless.
But Atta? Cold eyed killer. Perfect cast for the lead

Now let's cast names. Marwan ah-shari? Waleed Shehi? Hami Hanjour? See, I cant even REMEMBER their damn names right and i've been studying them for months.. but "Mohammed Atta" --- that sticks with me. In fact it's the ONLY name of 19 that is easily remembered... the other guys are like 'extras'....

Good name. Further breaking it down, psychologically --
Atta -- palindrome -- symmetrical like 11 or AA11... aTTa... teRRor ATTAck... it's even embedded in the word.

Either this was GENIUS or complete coindence that the RINGLEADER was the only real evil looking one of the 19 (ok, massaoui is ugley enough too) AND has the only easily-imprinted name. what are the odds?
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JackD
Posted: Feb 14 2006, 05:00 AM


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Contest -- without looking up info on the internet, how many hijackers can you name from memory, of the 19 ?

Next part -- how many of the hijackers which you name, can you link a photo to, in your mind?

What if you had the 19 photos in front of you , like a line up? which could you pick out by recognition.

Just an exercise to see which hijacker face/name combo got best household 'penetration.' I think advertisers do these measurements with the effectiveness of their images, jingles, etc. Anyone got skills in advertising metrics ?




if you scored "mohammed atta" but no one else, you're probably like 99% of other american households...


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JackD
Posted: Feb 25 2006, 06:48 AM


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This is from Paul Thompson/ Cooperative Research -- Atta timeline

It is apparent that someone was laying on a thick Mohammed Atta backstory. but they oversold it like a bad comedian. Who writes this stuff?

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timelin...ers=mohamedAtta

Late April-Mid-May 2000: Atta Leaves Numerous Clues While Seeking Crop-Dusting Airplane Loan

Department of Agriculture official Johnelle Bryant.
Atta asks her for a loan of $650,000 to buy and modify a crop-dusting plane.
He mentions that he wants to “build a chemical tank that would fit inside the aircraft and take up every available square inch of the aircraft except for where the pilot would be sitting.”
He uses his real name even as she takes notes, and makes sure she spells it correctly.
He says he has just arrived from Afghanistan.
He expresses an interest in visiting New York.
He asks her about security at the WTC and other US landmarks.
He discusses al-Qaeda and its need for American membership.
He tells her bin Laden “would someday be known as the world's greatest leader.”
He asks to buy the aerial photograph of Washington hanging on her Florida office wall, throwing increasingly large “wads of cash” at her when she refuses to sell it. ....
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Suprah
Posted: Feb 27 2006, 08:45 PM


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Wasnt there also a certain Zacharias Moussouvi as the dubbed "13th hijacker" ? unsure.gif
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JackD
Posted: Feb 27 2006, 10:09 PM


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there were auditions for the "20th Hijacker" --- 13th would be apostle.

Ramzi binalshibh tried out, but did not get a callback.
adneer bukhari, ditto.

Zacarious Moussaoui has been voted "20th hijacker" -- it makes a good story. You can't have a 20th hijacker without the other 19, right?

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V2ROT8
Posted: Feb 27 2006, 11:07 PM


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That was hilarious!

I think Atta (which probably isn't his real name, but like you said...it does kind of just roll off of the tongue and it's catchy) was carefully selected (along with the other hijackers) with a little help from Daddy Bush's CIA friends.

Find some middle eastern men who have trained in the military (preferably as a fighter pilot), set them up "real nice like" with lots of money for them and their families (don't leave out mom and pop) and promise them they will have fame beyond belief. Mix in little Bin Laden (Osama or Usama, depending on how YOU like to spell it), and there ya go. You got yourself a nice little plan put in motion to cause the American people to let you and yours do anything you want...Patriot Act? No problem! Violate civil liberties? Sure, baby.

Just make sure you recover important things like the black boxes. You don't really want the public hearing the hijackers talk about how much fun it's been working with the CIA and Osama simultaneously. Or worse yet, you don't want the public to hear that you have absolutely no control over the plane and that it's being flown remotely. That would be a complete drag as you would no longer be considered a hero in the whacky world of Islamic fundamentalism!

(By the way, my ex -husband was French-it was a momentary lapse of reason, I assure you- and I spent alot of time in Paris...lots of the muslim immigrants do NOT speak the French (native) language. This holds true for Germany, too.)
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GuilelessGuy
Posted: Feb 28 2006, 05:54 PM


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Mohammad Atta either is one or 'NONE' of the following scenarios:

-Either he is a double agent, an israeli posing as one, as there was a report mentioning that a Mossad agent was near his locality, especially around his apartments. Also you want to ask PALESTINIANS on this issue of how deceitful the mossad agents are.

-There has been rumors of him being involved in a drug trade since he was in Florida and his 'rumored' girlfriend said he dished out loops of money. Also his whereabouts linked to Bin Laden and him visiting Afghanistan, which is 'widely' known for their opium (to me this is a load of ordure used as the commonly known disinformation).

-He was religious. Now this is really a debunked though in itself, especially if anyone has information on the religion of Islam or knows of any practicing muslims. Practicing muslims would not resort to drinking, fornicating, eccetera as mentioned in news reports. NOTE that perhaps only one of the HIJACKERS had A BEARD, and a beard is the 'SUNNAH', meaning tradition, of the Prophet Muhammad to be followed and this heavily stated by wahabis including al-Qaeda to be implemented. Also, If he was religious and indeed proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he was A HIJACKER and the official 911 commission reports hold water of him boarding the flight and ramming into the TRADE towers, then this is perhaps to signify that he was a covert 'WAHABI', especially in that this sect is extremic and they were funded by the BRITISH in their establishment, and that karma of 7/11 of what comes around, goes around should show the British that they were the ones who founded this methodology as a revolt against the Ottoman Caliphate. The WAHABIS in themselves state that other traditional muslims are not on the right path, let alone are they true muslims. (This is a whole can of worms, if a topic is relevant, that I will get into).

-The whole information in other forums that I sought which was interesting and of which stated a double ATTA being possible in various locations. Does the Bin Laden video recovered in Jalalabad, Afghanistan ring a tone of how portrayals of characters USA wishes to be doctored?

I have a hard time figuring out who this mohamed, mohammad, mohammed ATTA is and leads me to doubts that he really existed in the fashion as the government and 9/11 commissins report here portrays him to be. I neither believe that the phone call that his father received is true. People on this forum are not acquainted well with the middle eastern culture of 'izzat', dignity and honor. His father was lying on behalf of protecting his son.
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V2ROT8
Posted: Feb 28 2006, 07:22 PM


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Very interesting post.

The only stuff I know about Islam is from a book I read a few years ago called "The Anthology of Religions" (A 3 part series, I think). What I quickly learned from reading about Islam is that the Sunni and Shi'a cannot stand each other. You know kind of like the Protestants and the Catholics in Northern Ireland (and well through the ages in countries everywhere) absolutely hate each other. As soon as the Dubya administration began talking about Iraq, I thought "Oh, boy. That's a real, real bad idea." I was really basing it on what we saw happen to Yugoslavia....civil war and ethnic cleansing.

My thought has always been "Can the uncivilized be governed by civility?"

A friend of mine (a fellow stew) is a Palestinian Christian born and raised in Isreal (moved to the US at 17). He said "You see, these fanatics, both Islamic and Orthodox, live by the sword and die by the sword. That's how it is, and how it will be."

There's another great book entitles "Jihad" which is pretty enlightening as well. It talks about the "Stans" ....Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Turkministan, etc. It goes into detail about macro and micro alliances and is pretty intense.

It seems our "leaders" don't understand that "democracy" and "freedom" may not work the way the want them to work in these countries. And I swear to God, everytime Bush uses the word "freedom" I want to scream "Get a thesauras you dumb a**).
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GuilelessGuy
Posted: Feb 28 2006, 07:36 PM


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QUOTE
A friend of mine (a fellow stew) is a Palestinian Christian born and raised in Isreal (moved to the US at 17). He said "You see, these fanatics, both Islamic and Orthodox, live by the sword and die by the sword. That's how it is, and how it will be."

There's another great book entitles "Jihad" which is pretty enlightening as well. It talks about the "Stans" ....Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Turkministan, etc. It goes into detail about macro and micro alliances and is pretty intense.

It seems our "leaders" don't understand that "democracy" and "freedom" may not work the way the want them to work in these countries. And I swear to God, everytime Bush uses the word "freedom" I want to scream "Get a thesauras you dumb a**).


I believe extremists from all ideological boundaries would want their 'ideology' to survive. Like the ZIONIST fanatics that have usurped the lands, rights, and dignity of the PALESTINIANS. Extremism breeds extremism, period.

Democracy from the american gov't's perspective will not work, but it is purposely used as a covert way to explore middle eastern countries and make the people subservient to them, as the only system muslims, especially the faithful, would want to live in is an ISLAMIC caliphate, and this is the only plausible threat Bush's government fears.
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V2ROT8
Posted: Feb 28 2006, 08:18 PM


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Yep. Another thing that comes to mind is the last Pal. elections with Hamas winning all of those seats. It was democracy at work, but it just didn't turn out the way DC would have liked, so they threatened and insinuated that they wouldn't "deal" with Hamas. Nice.
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OCMARK
Posted: Mar 1 2006, 03:29 AM


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QUOTE (V2ROT8 @ Feb 27 2006, 03:07 PM)
Find some middle eastern men who have trained in the military (preferably as a fighter pilot), 

Military who said anything about that...these fools could barely fly the most simple of planes let alone a 100 ton aircraft hitting the WTC1-2 and the pentagon dead nuts...with no practice runs a 1 time shot...That is hard to believe.....impossible...as far as terrorist go these 19 were clowns...no prior jobs every done....no reputation amongs the other governments....no wanted posters...no.. I mean no... track record to speak of....hell they look like "HOLLYWOOD TERRORIST" except atta the F*KER is ugly



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stealth
Posted: Mar 9 2006, 12:55 AM


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sethp
Posted: Mar 21 2006, 07:35 AM


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I Would not be in the slightest bit suprised if these people are all victims of identity theft, a lot of these supposed terrrorists have reported their passports lost or stolen, here in new zealand we had a high profile case of mossad israeli itelligence trying to obtain false new zealand passports by stealling identities (one guy tried to steal the identity of a cerebal plausy sufferer) they were also snapped doin this in canada in 1997, also considering so many of "terrorists" were alive after the attacks, there has definately been some sort of intelligence service maybe not israel directly, but they certinly have the track record, undoubtedly western passports would allow the easiest form travel and most believible identities to have, Moussoui was meant to be french but couldn't speak it, definately worth looking in to.
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one
Posted: Apr 2 2006, 07:56 AM


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His father claimed to receive a phone call on the 12th. But have there been any calls since? Any record of him at all since? Perhaps with time zone differences, it was the 12th where the father was, and the 11th where Atta was. I didn't bother doing the math though, just throwing the possibility out there.

Either way, If I was his dad, I'd defend and lie for my son if I had to. Protect his honor and the family name. Just saying, it's good that we come up with alternate theories, but they need questioned too. Always keep an open mind, otherwise you're still a sheep, just on the other side.
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