Can you answer this Mr Pickering?.

What do you know about this?

Russ helped get Chris Bollyn fired?

WTF Russ???? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!@!!!??

As if Chris doesnt have enough problem with the false arrest... holy crap...

Russ .. who are you?

Let him answer.

Perhaps he will deny the claim.

But yeah....I sure trust Bolyn over wing tv!

Nice attack but you will see a good lesson here. Read on! Like I said, I am open to any challenge of my integrity. Take the challenge.

Full Documentation follows. Merc also helped to debunk Sam Danner so you may want to talk with him too.

Christopher Bollyn got himself fired and this all happened before his arrest. Facts again are important.
____________________________________________________________________

This all started when Eric Hufschmidt turned that "witness" Sam Danner over to Bollyn. Email Eric here and ask him to release the almost 2 hour interview with me that he won't disclose where he attacked Dylan as a Zionist backed op. PainfulQuestions@aol.com I challenge you to do that and post it here for ALL to hear!!!!!!

Out of concern for the Pentagon investigation I contacted all parties involved including Christopher. He ignored me and others to proceed. In the end, the story was proven to be false. But in the process Eric Hufschmid and others promoted me as a government agent including Christopher himself.

Christopher went off all on his own. I had personal phone calls with him and can say this first hand.

Instead of admitting he had been deceived and retracting the information, it was being implied that maybe even his arrest story had something to do with Danner and a deep plot. It was not. So now WING TV, Michael Collins Piper, myself and American Free Press are all agents?

NO - Daryl Bradford Smith, Eric Hufschmidt and now Christopher have spun themselves into their own world that is making the whole world an enemy.

My opinion is that Christopher was assisted in his spin out of credibility and he walked right into it despite warnings.

I tried in total support of Christopher to help him not be deceived by conspiracy theorists just like I do here. READ IT ALL and the associated links before you speak further. The go and read all of the Danner threads on this forum. It will be a very good example of my intentions and what happens when facts are not acknowledged.


Here is some history:

http://www.wingtv.net/thorn2006/danner2.html

http://www.wingtv.net/thorn2006/danner.html

http://www.erichufschmid.net/SamDanner8Aug2006.html (For real insanity read the links to the other 3 pages of this.)

Last nights Piper report: http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Piper06.html

Here is the Danner link for your convenience. Please let me know if you have any further questions or need more detail. If you are really interested listen to the several hours of shows related to this as well. Researching facts takes time - longer than jumping to conclusions for sure!

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...?showtopic=8567

I just remembered there is time for you to call into the Piper Report that starts in 20 minutes from now. I DARE you to call in in front of the nation and ask him about my role and my intentions. The ask him what happened to Christopher and what happened to their long friendship.

http://rbnlive.com/listen.html

TRIPLE DOG DARE!!!!!

Do it - just do it.

You want to question me anonymously from behind a computer I suggest you follow through with it.

If this is about the Sam Danner stuff then I understand.

Bollyn messed up.

I spoke to Glen briefly about this... im waiting on a call from Chris.

Russ, you talk down about CTist as if it is an attack. YOU are one of the biggest CTer's here with your physical damage theory to include your remote control airplane.


puhlease....

I dont offer theory just on this fact alone. But i dont judge others if they do come up with a theory. Its human nature when not given answers.

You might think twice about talking down to a "conspiracy theorist" considering the company you are in.

Great.

When Christopher calls invite him here to discuss this in public.

I want the truth known.

Or ask him if he will go on a show with me or have Eric record a conversation.

I want to make this a test for all of you to observe.

I don't regard but a few people here "hard core conspiracy theorists". I am clear about that!!

I'm confused now - am I a representative of the official story or a conspiracy theorist?

You see in just one day all I have done is ask for the truth.

1) I can prove and back my claims in response to attacks on myself.
2) There will be no open debate.
3) I guess we will not know the truth about the deleted thread.

See what I mean??

You have proven just what i told you before it all happened...

1. No one has attacked you. It is fact you omit/spin/ignore facts to "fit" or prove govt theory.

2. I told you JREFers arent welcome here. I told you where the threads are for debate including my site and the simple rules. You seem to defend them but either

a. Dont know much about their tactics..
or b. know all about their tactics and that is why you invited them.

3. I recall the deleted thread very well. I recall many things very well. I dont ask you the same questions over and over because i dont have a memory problem. I do not recall what you seem "remember" in that thread (one of the few times i seen Russ actually remember something, but i dont)

Again Russ.. just in case you forgot.. deleted threads cannot be brought back... :)

No attacks on me must have just made a lot of readers laugh!!!

Touchy you are.

Well I also think a plane did hit the Pentagon, not sure if it was a 757 though.

If they would show me evidence that there was indeed a 757 that crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11 (50% possibility)

I still would not believe the official story that it was flight 77.

If they would show me evidence that it was flight 77 (10% possibility)

I still would not believe the official story that this plane was hijacked.

If they would show me evidence that the plane was hijacked (5% possibilty)

I still would not believer the US government was not behind it.

If they would show me evidence that the government was not behind it (1% possibilty)

I still would not believe the US government could not prevent it

There is no way they can prove me that they could not.

So I believe a plane crashed into the Pentagon, does this mean I am also a JREF-er?

Now if after his study Russell starts claiming it was flight 77 and that it was indeed hijacked, now that would start being suspicious. I think Russell mainly wants to find the truth, I think Russell does not at all believe the official story, except for the plane hitting the Pentagon.

But that is just me, I could be totally wrong...

but also totally right.

If I ever state that America was surprised attacked by Arabs and that Flight 77 was legitimately hijacked and flown into the Pentagon by Hani Hanjour I will quit posting here.

Cointel pros work smarter than that.

Not that I'm calling you an agent but you wouldn't infiltrate a movement by telling them the complete opposite of what they want to hear.

Yes - the "agents" want you to believe a plane hit the Pentagon because that will make the official story true just like the planes at the towers do!

No but they sure want the movement to be divided and for attention to be drawn from the smoking guns.

There is no question that they have been wildly successful in this.

This thread is a joke, and should have been moved or removed at the point where it started. <_<

I am all for having it removed.

But as you can see, given hours of documentation to research it only leads to solid attempts to understand what happened at the Pentagon and nothing "questionable" about the work I try to do.

Any admin is free to delete this thread if they so choose.

Russell, why do you think a question is an attack on you?. I recieve information, so I pose a question. Why make it out to be an attack on you, when it clearly is not?.

Being in Politics myself, I understand the wordings and statements made by fellow compatriots, and the word 'Spin' or 'craftfully moving goal posts' does apply to a fair chunk of posts you have made from observations.

At the end of the day, it is your word against theirs. So I do question you on one thing alone: You cannot prove that you are right, and they cannot prove they are right, so why take the you are right only stance?.

I am merely stating what I say above from observations noted. There is no such attack on you whatsoever Mr Pickering.

Anyone thinking a question is an attack, from my experiences with fellow compatriots, almost always has something they would rather not admit to, so therefore, leaving a void. It is a tactic used well which leaves an issue of any sorts unanswered and closed.

You are correct here. He was dismissed after his arrest, not before.
A simple check with the AFP sites shows this.

This is about Mr Bollyn, Russell. Not a Mr Danner.

The Sam Danner thing was before the arrest and the firing was after it.

Your philosophy is much appreciated and I admire your style - very smooth!

The evidence and research provided is sufficient to have answered your question in and of itself.

Fortunately most people here read between the lines.

I will look forward to more of your contributions.

Having looked at this from a 'both sides' have a point to make, I have come to this conclusion.

While it appears it is not ok for some to question the honesty of others, it appears that those whose honesty is being questioned refuse to acknowledge the points and questions rightfully raised from another.

Thus, the WingTV, Piper and Pickering linkage appears to behave like big brother, and argues from a standpoint that nobody should dare raise questions and make their own observations, but is, it appears, ok for WingTV, Piper and Pickering linkage to carry out what is not ok for others.

On this basis, from an independent stance, freedom of speech, without hinderence should and must be allowed.

It does appear odd that Mr Pickering, Piper and WingTV should have monopoly over the truth, and what should, I feel, be allowed, is that any untruths by ante, should also be allowed to be shown, and that no other who highlights this should be persecuted and have a life ruined over a difference of opinion, even if indeed is truth, and not be portrayed as a lie for the benefits of those above.

Mr Pickering, this is not an attack, it is an observation, and as impartial as I can be.

Thank you for the time it took to share that.

The truth is very simple. I care about the Pentagon investigation. I recognized Mr. Danner's story as false immediately. I did not want it to become a further distraction to the Pentagon investigation. I privately contacted Mr. Bollyn and gave him significant documentation about the veracity of the story and Mr. Danner himself that any journalist would love to know and would have investigated readily. I even talked with him on the phone. My intention was to protect him out of respect for his work which I had been reading for nearly 3 years.

When Piper became involved I contacted him as well. I had never met or communicated with him before. I also indicated to him my same concerns. This is all very well documented.

I was approached by WING TV who are good friends of mine to inform them on the specific details of the situation that had come to their attention.

I was also contacted by Mr. Danner's son to help him with what he knew to be a false story because of the impact it was having on his family.

In the end the Danner story ended up being false. My attempts to prevent this were disregarded and that is not my fault. Go listen to the shows and read the documentation prior to posting suggestive "observations". You are 100% out of touch with the facts and your summary here will fool nobody who is familiar with the situation.

If you want to discredit me, please take an angle other than this. Also, maybe try something not so well documented and that didn't involve so many people who are informed.

If you want to examine the people who goaded Christopher into this error and divided him from AFP then I suggest you start with Eric Hufschmid here:

page 1 - http://www.erichufschmid.net/EyewitnessToFlight77.html

page 2 - http://www.erichufschmid.net/SamDannerResponds3Aug2006.html

page 3 - http://www.erichufschmid.net/SamDanner8Aug2006.html

page 4 - http://www.erichufschmid.net/Sam/SamDanner12Aug2006.html

Follow the trail from there.

While you continue your search for the facts please contact Eric here PainfulQuestions@aol.com and ask him to release the interview (2 parts) he has recorded with me. Then come back and post it here for all to hear.

I will look forward to more of your "observations".

Just quickly, and I don't know why Mr Danner has become part of this, as again, it is regarding Mr Bollyn.

Are you absolutely sure that you have Mr Danners integrity at heart here Russell?.
Because one thing I clearly heard from all the recordings made, was a man under intense pressure and worry after his first announcement.

I took the liberty of having the recordings analysed and very high amounts of stress are evident, more so in his retractions later on, which appear to hint towards higher than expected levels of fear, compared to someone actually being caught out telling an untruth and then admitting it. I also have to question on the stage at which his Son became involved and the reason/s why, as it appears to be a 'panic' type of movement. Looking at that from both approaching points, in between the two, something appears to have taken place to create an appearance of confusions and mistrusts, thus resulting in what is possibly an accurate account of what occured, to be altered into a false account. Afterall, think about how many people have ever said they were there (being a major event, way above what is normally expected) and saw what occured, when they were not there at all.
I think you and I could well find that nobody has ever done something like this, so why now?. It is not a normal pattern of behaviour.

I will not disrespect Mr Danner or his Son, but I have a suspicion that they were both exposed to an external interference, which should not have taken place.
This conclusion arises from listening to and having the recordings analysed, and the subsequent consequences. I also find in some cases, that assumptions based on hearsay have been portrayed in what appears to have been a factual act of expression, rather than being taken onboard to be investigated upon first and foremost in a thorough manner.

Again, these are observations.

Now that i know more about this Pickering character... i'd like to know more about Danners story...

I have seen some really weird crap surrounding this story.

One thing that always puzzled me is how fast and swift this Pickering guy jumped on it.

I don't understand Truthseekers ? You say why does Danner have to become a part of this and then the rest of your post has to do with Danner ? I don't understand, can you explain?

I watched all of this transpire and Russell was trying to tell people to look at the story more closely so people wouldn't latch on to it and then find themselves being discredited which latter happened, when Danner's son said his father wasn't telling the truth. This to me sounds like the story was made up correct ? IF you believe Danner's son and himself were both scared and pressured, there for came to the conclusion of stating it was a lie, do you have any proof of that, besides what has been shown / posted on these boards ?

Because Russell took the liberty to include him. And as he has done, so I have chosen to question this.

One thing many people here need to realize is that people have their own minds and dont need someone to "rescue" their thoughts.

It always puzzled me as to why Russ latched onto this story so quickly at first to try and discredit it so swiftly and completely.

Now that i have more experience with the famous Russ Pickering, i would like to know more about this story.

I have read elsewhere that Danner retracted his "retraction" and the reason for his first retraction was because he felt pressured. At first i just let it slide off and didnt think any more of it.

But now i want to know more.

Danner's story was all over the place and it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out he was lying out his teeth. Adding, changing, retracting, inserting, retracting all the time, every interview was a little different than the last, more info was disclosed and included as the story progressed.

If you say this Danner story was now a retraction from the retraction, where is this info ? Is his son lying about his dad making this up ? The reason I feel Russell looked at this story right away, is because unfortunatly people do want the smoking gun so much, that they'll believe half assed stories like this and he was pointing out, (russell) that if people just waited a few days or a week, that it would all come out. This was because Russell was talking with the son directly and knew the inside info, but wanted to wait until the Dad or the Son came out on their own account, when they felt it was the right time.

If you're stating Russell's actions as of late, deem a story like this to be questioned more, because in your eyes Russell's credibility is at stake, then that means you have a fear in your mind that Russell is some agent and is making people retract their stories, from how you word your want to find more. You honestly think Russell's some agent because he feels there might be a plane ? I feel there might be a plane too, am I an agent ? All this questioning in our own camp is disheartening. Because Russell wanted to warn people that this story was a lie, Russells credibility is in question is insane to me. Insane, really, because if any logical person looked at that story for more than a few hours, they would see it was indeed a bunch of info joined together in a loose made up way.

Now, back to Truthseekers first claim. Can you restate that again, so the Danner stuff doesn't get in the way with your first as you say, honest question ?

As JDX says, a person doesn't need their thoughts rescued, there for why do you care what Russell's veiw is to begin with. You can make up your own mind and choose to ignore Russell's research right ? You trust that people can make up their own mind, so Russell's research will be something that people can either take in or see through it, what ever way they feel as people are smart enough to make up their own mind. If you think differently, then you are going against your own thoughts of "people don't need rescuing". If the information is out there and presented in a clear fashion, then people will take notice to that information and will make up their own mind if they choose to believe it or not.

I don't want to play the credibility game, but JDX, you have a few people that know your personal info, yet all of us have to just trust you and the others you have told. The info and documentation you gave could have easily been made up as well, computers do amazing things. Then, there is a possibility you are a pilot but work for "umm someone else" and you're mission is to gain support from your obvious knowledge in this area and lead people down a road that you choose as well. So, I think credibility should not be discussed by someone that the general public is forced to just trust. I'm so happy you've researched the FDR data, honestly I am, but I haven't seen any presentation with all the names of the pilots working with you and any pdf version of your findings. We are forced to look and piece together threads to get your outcome, which is fine, but this comes back to the credibility talk, none of us can trust any of us, so trying to point a finger at Russell is unfair, that's all I'm trying to say. ....

The only thing that is keeping me from thinking Russ is an agent is because he seems to be too "slow on the uptake" (to be polite) and he is quite obvious in his spin for those who work closely with him.

As for Danner and my thoughts... I do ignore Russell.. that is why i want to know more.

I dont remember where i read the retraction of the "retraction", because i thought just as you when i was following the story so i just let it slide by.

But, now I want to know more. Is that ok?

Logic, if you are referring to the first post, should it be posted again?.

Its because you dont look.

The information has been verified by Russ himself. If you care to debate the facts.. then do it. It shouldnt matter if im a walmart greeter or the Commander for the Space Shuttle. Debate the facts. The facts and data comes from a govt agency. Falling back to provoke an emotional response trying to reveal my identity publicly is an Invision TOS violation and could have this board shut down if repeated attempts are made.

Here is your cover letter. If you are not satisfied by the source, please call 202-314-6000 and ask the NTSB yourself. Then debate the facts presented.. if you can.

The full presentation is linked in my signature.. just click on it and go to the pentagon page.

Logic,

Thank you for the insight here.

Logic is apparently your handle for a reason. I don't mean your support of me in the Danner case either - I mean your observations about the current situation.

Russell

JDX,

I think it is at least inconsistent on one hand to question me to the degree you are above and then to later refer to me as a source to confirm a point.

Yes the FDR and associated data is authentic.

Since in this thread you have chosen to keep the ball rolling on me I will respond appropriately.

Russell

Truthseekers,

As I indicted initially your slow, smooth, covert style is nothing less than an attack and has been since the origin of this thread. So let me address you directly.

Sam Danner has everything to do with the evolution of what has happened in regards to Christopher. The source of your original quote has mentioned this in the full context of what you quoted. The fact that you're indicating the Danner situation had nothing to do with this is either absolute proof that you have spent zero time truly investigating this or the smooth operator I perceived from the first tone of your words.

You have been presented with hours of material to look into. There is much more linked off of that. But it is not truth you are seeking at all so please let that be known as a matter of integrity OK?

If you take the time to listen to just the approximately 7 hours of Danner's interviews and have any working knowledge of the Pentagon incident at all you will quickly realize geographical, chronological and factual errors one upon another. Then the story changes and the internal contradictions begin. After that it degrades from there. It is obvious.

Here are the two threads in this forum:

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...topic=7703&st=0

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...topic=8567&st=0

I am posting these so that anybody reading this can familiarize themselves with the situation so that if you post anything that is misinformed again it will be obvious to all. Also, if you come back with inaccuracies that have been dealt with in the other materials that I have linked you to, I will also expose that. By the time we're done here it will be extremely obvious to all that you are not even seeking the truth in the known resources right in front of you.

Since JDX has decided to take another run at calling me a liar or question my motives I will recapitulate the last attempt of that here and what happens when you try to prove somebody is lying that doesn't lie.


ME: Just a hint. TVENN's email had nothing to do with light poles. At the very least Dylan will get a chance to read it in full.


JDX:Nothing to do with the light poles?

He stated in his email exactly that...

Im posting this just to show how Russell LIES! This is being posted based on malicious behavior of Russell Pickering.
____________________________________________________________________

QUOTE

From: TVenn <xxxxx@yahoo.com>
To: Russell Pickering <xxxxxxxxxx@bresnan.net>
Sent: Oct 2 2006, 09:21 PM
From IP: xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Russell,

Please email me at xxxxxxxxxx@yahoo.com

I think I may have evidence of the light poles being staged,
however, I would like your opinion.

TVenn

END QUOTE
___________________________________________________________________

THE TRUTH

___________________________________________________________________
From: XXXX XXXXXX
To: Russell Pickering
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:04 AM
Subject: Re: Interesting?


I apologize for the misleading content of the email. I have made attempts in the past to establish email contact with you via the Loose Change forum, however,there appears to have been some interference with those efforts.
I had to assume an administrator would be reviewing the content.

I have been following your work for a very long time and appreciate your efforts immensely.It appears I will likely be banned from the Loose Change forum
for attempting to inject a modest amount of reason to some of the claims there.
Hence, I wanted to have your email address before I was banned in case
I run across information that may substantially help in your efforts to pursue the truth.

You are on the right track with the FDR heading information. It is logically inconsistent for anyone to maintain that the FDR pressure altitude information
proves the jet did not hit the light poles and then ignore the track information
from the FDR. Lining up the FDR aircraft track with the impact point is exactly the correct approach to establish the track of the aircraft across the ground..

This character JDX , as an administrator of the Loose Change forum,is doing more to discredit the truth movement than any single individual I have encountered.

I am glad to see a voice of reason on the Loose Change forum.

Thanks for the response. I will be in touch if I find information worth your time.

________________________________________________________________

ME: ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? Dylan has been forwarded this original email with the person's full name and address to confirm this with him. You can verify this with Dylan and post a retraction about me being a liar later. This is what your 3rd failed attempt today?

The end result of this type of attack will always be the same. In regards to the Pentagon and 9/11 I do not lie, deceive and have not a single malicious or suspicious motive. My motive is to determine what happened and to contribute to the truth of 9/11 being exposed so that we can perhaps get our country back and survive the next 10 years. This I take seriously.

Do I make this response out of ego? No - I am smart enough to know if unfounded insinuation is not addressed firmly, directly and factually in short proximity to the attempts to disinform, it plants a seed that grows. And the integrity of my goals in regards to 9/11 WILL NOT be eroded by people who operate the way you do. Anonymously behind a facade with insinuation and unfounded accusation.

So here is what I suggest. That the two of you join forces. The "truth seeker" and you JDX. Take your non-factual insinuations, methodologies and tactics and apply them full force directly on me and all of my actions and words. This way you will be brought out into the open for all to see clearly in an expeditious manner.

You can try and resurrect Danner or take your FDR research and turn it into an ordinance run. That is your right. But EVERY STEP OF THE WAY I will be looking for the facts in all of it and bringing anything to light that misdirects or distracts the integrity of all of the good and honest people working hard to understand the Pentagon.

That includes Dylan and the Loose Change crew, the very thoughtful posters here and every single reader who is honestly asking questions and actually seeking the truth.

Not on my watch. Being an admin isn't required to do this. Just giving your best and being honest has worked so far.

Clear???

EDIT: Grammar

Russ spins again.. "non-factual". [laughing]

Russ.. i just want to know more..based on the fact of how i see you behave... i havent presented anything to be "non-factual"...lol

[yawn]

Edit: The only reason i include you in the verification of the FDR is because Logic trusts you for some reason. If you were the only verification in my eyes.. there is no way i would accept it (as i have verified it through other channels.. such as UT himself). Im not surprised you dont understand the context in which it was used.

Wow.. i just read the rest of Russ's tirade..

Ok.. first.. he didnt include the whole exchange. .as usual...

The follow up to that exchange between Russ and myself was shown in the admin logs is as being a total lie of the contents of that letter. The only time TVenn ever mailed anyone on this forum is that one time. Any admin can check the logs and see for themselves. Russ seems to omit/ignore/spin this fact.

Therefore, what else in that followup email is a lie?

Russ. .you are a flat out liar. You do it constantly. Many people on this forum know it. Many admins here dont trust you and are looking for your first f*ck up to shit can you. I dont trust you.

nuff said.

Let me also add,

Russ has violated Invision Terms of Service numerous times with threats of invasion of privacy and attempts to provoke an emotional response to reveal personal information on a public forum without the consent of the member (ie stalking for personal information). These violations combined with past reports from other members to Invision could possibly put this very board in jeopardy.

It is currently under administrative review before proceeding. For some reason Russ has intentionally or unintentionally put this board in jeopardy with his posts and blind trust from the owner. We have tried to warn the owner of the board numerous times and still waiting a response.

All one has to do is read Russell's posts as closely as those of us who have been in this pentagon section regularly to see his behavior. We are unsure if there is motivation behind that behavior.