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Loose Change Forum > The Pentagon > Technical Details Of Fdr And Altimeter


Title: Technical Details Of Fdr And Altimeter
Description: This needs to be resolved


Parmenides - October 5, 2006 02:15 PM (GMT)
I am inclined to believe that AA77 hit the Pentagon. JDX has done some good work trying to interpret the FDR data. My inclination is to believe that the altimeter was lagging just a bit, and if all technical details and physical aspects of the pre-impact conditions were clearly understood, we would find that the FDR data is consistent with AA77 (under remote control) clipping lamp posts on the way in.

What I need to see are the technical details such has how the altimeter will respond under those conditions.

Where is it located within the aircraft?

How is the external air pressure communicated to the altimeter?

What are the parameters for altemeter lag?

What, if any, areodynamice factors might effect the altemeter readings at low altitudes and high speeds?

What are the chances that the FDR data is simply inaccurate due to technical flaws in the equipment?


THE DECIDER - October 5, 2006 04:56 PM (GMT)
i wont pretend to understand the FDR research 100%...

but one thing i do know, thats pretty weird how it just stops all the sudden....like 2 seconds before the official impact time....

is it possible "heres where a theory comes into play" for the rest of the flight of flt 77 could have been deleted?...just cut it off where it was..and delete the lift up to avoid the pentagon? [whistle]

water_bender - October 5, 2006 05:09 PM (GMT)
just as possible as it is that the fdr is a composite of two flights, or totally real, or total fraudulant, or none of the above. with the extent of software and hardware sims out there you cant really rule anything out at this point.

johndoeX - October 5, 2006 06:18 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Parmenides @ Oct 5 2006, 10:15 AM)
I am inclined to believe that AA77 hit the Pentagon.  JDX has done some good work trying to interpret the FDR data.  My inclination is to believe that the altimeter was lagging just a bit, and if all technical details and physical aspects of the pre-impact conditions were clearly understood, we would find that the FDR data is consistent with AA77 (under remote control) clipping lamp posts on the way in. 

What I need to see are the technical details such has how the altimeter will respond under those conditions. 

Where is it located within the aircraft? 

How is the external air pressure communicated to the altimeter? 

What are the parameters for altemeter lag?

What, if any, areodynamice factors might effect the altemeter readings at low altitudes and high speeds?

What are the chances that the FDR data is simply inaccurate due to technical flaws in the equipment?

All great questions. You should cal lthe NTSB and ask them... as we have tried. As for your fundamental questions such as "where is it located in the aircraft". Stop being so lazy and go look it up.


However, i have taken the liberty to find the answers on my own. There arent any errors. These systems are calibrated during certification to remove errors at various speeds, altitudes, angles of attack and configuration. Please review the thread i just put up regarding Calibration and Measurement.

Last but not least.. Call the NTSB. 202-314-6000 and demand answers.

Parmenides - October 12, 2006 04:08 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (johndoeX @ Oct 5 2006, 06:18 PM)
QUOTE (Parmenides @ Oct 5 2006, 10:15 AM)
I am inclined to believe that AA77 hit the Pentagon.  JDX has done some good work trying to interpret the FDR data.  My inclination is to believe that the altimeter was lagging just a bit, and if all technical details and physical aspects of the pre-impact conditions were clearly understood, we would find that the FDR data is consistent with AA77 (under remote control) clipping lamp posts on the way in. 

What I need to see are the technical details such has how the altimeter will respond under those conditions. 

Where is it located within the aircraft? 

How is the external air pressure communicated to the altimeter? 

What are the parameters for altemeter lag?

What, if any, areodynamice factors might effect the altemeter readings at low altitudes and high speeds?

What are the chances that the FDR data is simply inaccurate due to technical flaws in the equipment?

All great questions. You should cal lthe NTSB and ask them... as we have tried. As for your fundamental questions such as "where is it located in the aircraft". Stop being so lazy and go look it up.


However, i have taken the liberty to find the answers on my own. There arent any errors. These systems are calibrated during certification to remove errors at various speeds, altitudes, angles of attack and configuration. Please review the thread i just put up regarding Calibration and Measurement.

Last but not least.. Call the NTSB. 202-314-6000 and demand answers.

The charge that I am being lazy is neither helpful nor accurate. The whole of 9/11 research is huge, and very difficult. I do what I can. I've spent well over 40 hours a week at this for the past couple of months. I don't get paid for it. When I posted that message I did so because I was getting ready to go out of town to my Grandmother's (a very special person in my life) funeral was last week. I found just enough time to get the message off before I started on my trip. I didn't know how much, if any time I would have to get back to it for the rest of the week. In the future it would do our common cause a lot of good if we try to act in good faith toward each other.

It would be very helpful if you would provide links to threads, or at least the subject heading when cross referencing them. I am now in the position of trying to guess which thread you are suggesting I read.

I will say that at some time in the past week I encountered a byte by byte description of the FDR data stream. That might be helpful to people trying to decode the raw data. Unfortunately I don't recall where I saw it. :(

Please don't dismiss my questioning of the accuracy and precision of the FDR data as an uninformed effort to bend the data to fit my preconceived notions without any scientific or technical background on my part. I spent many years studying the fundamental concepts of observation and measurement in foundational physics. I also have a strong technical background to include a degree in computer science, and years of hands-on experience to include 5 years as a guided missile electronics specialist.

Using FDR data to exactly determine the characteristics of the final approach to the Pentagon is like looking at something with a microscope. At some point, the characteristics of the microscope limit the resolution we can get in the image we perceive. The characteristics of glass slides we use to hold the studied sample in place will also impact what we observe.

My working hypothesis is that the four airliners were the ones alleged to have been involved. They did impact where they are said to have impacted, and most of the people reported to have been on board were indeed murdered on 9/11/01.

The weight of evidence I have seen points to AA77 (or a similar airplane) hitting the Pentagon. I fully agree that a conscious (and criminal) effort has been made to hide the details of what happened. The FDR data seems to be slightly inconsistent with the other evidence such as numerous eye-witness accounts and physical evidence including building damage and plane parts.

That same evidence also indicates that AA77 threaded the eye of a needle on its way into the Pentagon. It flew with the accuracy and precision of a cruise missile. It was not piloted by Hani Hanjour. If Hani Hanjour lost his life when AA77 hit the Pentagon, I will assume he was an innocent victim until I am given compelling evidence to the contrary.

johndoeX - October 12, 2006 04:13 PM (GMT)
I didnt read your whole post and im sorry to hear about your grandma...

But, what you seek is all right here...

http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...php?showforum=9

UnderTow - October 12, 2006 05:57 PM (GMT)
What would you like to know/discuss Parmenides?


Parmenides - October 13, 2006 01:18 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (UnderTow @ Oct 12 2006, 05:57 PM)
What would you like to know/discuss Parmenides?

QUOTE (Parmenides @ Oct 5 2006, 02:15 PM)
I am inclined to believe that AA77 hit the Pentagon.  JDX has done some good work trying to interpret the FDR data.  My inclination is to believe that the altimeter was lagging just a bit, and if all technical details and physical aspects of the pre-impact conditions were clearly understood, we would find that the FDR data is consistent with AA77 (under remote control) clipping lamp posts on the way in. 

What I need to see are the technical details such has how the altimeter will respond under those conditions. 

Where is it located within the aircraft? 

How is the external air pressure communicated to the altimeter? 

What are the parameters for altemeter lag?

What, if any, areodynamice factors might effect the altemeter readings at low altitudes and high speeds?

What are the chances that the FDR data is simply inaccurate due to technical flaws in the equipment?

johndoeX - October 13, 2006 03:02 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Parmenides @ Oct 12 2006, 09:18 PM)
QUOTE (UnderTow @ Oct 12 2006, 05:57 PM)
What would you like to know/discuss Parmenides?

QUOTE (Parmenides @ Oct 5 2006, 02:15 PM)
I am inclined to believe that AA77 hit the Pentagon.  JDX has done some good work trying to interpret the FDR data.  My inclination is to believe that the altimeter was lagging just a bit, and if all technical details and physical aspects of the pre-impact conditions were clearly understood, we would find that the FDR data is consistent with AA77 (under remote control) clipping lamp posts on the way in. 

What I need to see are the technical details such has how the altimeter will respond under those conditions. 

Where is it located within the aircraft? 

How is the external air pressure communicated to the altimeter? 

What are the parameters for altemeter lag?

What, if any, areodynamice factors might effect the altemeter readings at low altitudes and high speeds?

What are the chances that the FDR data is simply inaccurate due to technical flaws in the equipment?

Airdata Calibration and Measurement (shows how inherent pitot-static errors are removed during certification)
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...p?showtopic=103


FDR Vertical Speed and Lag Issues Addressed
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...showtopic=12995

Fundamentals on Pitot Static Systems
http://www.allstar.fiu.edu/aero/PSSI.htm
Also covers inherent errors on raw pitot static systems and how those errors are removed and calibrated for varying aircraft.





johndoeX - October 13, 2006 03:14 AM (GMT)
Cross Checking parameters..

System indications
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...hp?showtopic=86

G Forces
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...hp?showtopic=97

Alternate Analysis working back from impact point based on vertical speed
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...hp?showtopic=84




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