Is any new research or discoveries making you feel one way or another? Please detail.

I agree, because there was a plane. A large Grey/White jet with no markings that didn't hit the light poles.

I believe "AA77" flewover but I still believe some sort of drone plane hit the Pentagon.

Not sure.. but im not ignoring the FDR or witnesses till i get answers.

I have checked every possible scenario surrounding the possible explainations for the FDR and the fact it shows it didnt hit the light poles and/or in conflict with the DOD video. There is no explaination except to say that its fake. In that case, it is as alarming as it being accurate since it comes from the govt.

The Pilots for Truth campaign to find answers we like to call "Operation Checkmate".


Those wishing to help out, please email me at pilotsfortruth@NOSPAMyahoo.com

(remove the NOSPAM word when emailing)


[cheers] [salute]

I do think a plane crashed into the Pentagon,

I am not sure it was a 757,

if it indeed was a 757, I am highly doubting it was flight 77,

if it was indeed flight 77 I doubt it was hijacked,

if it was hijacked I doubt they were not able to stop it,

if they were not able to stop it I doubt US government did not know it would happen that day,

if they did not know... well maybe, just maybe, maybe I would believe the official story.

Yes, lets disregard all the evidence at the Pentagon. I'm sure all of the debris on the lawn was there the day before the attacks.

"Newbies" always know everything.

[whistle]

100% no, lets see some wings shall we? or wing impact areas? or even a video :)

no, the part in LC where it was talking about more holes through the pentagon...my moms bf said
"thats not a problem, its possible...ive seen engines do that"
(he was in the navy)
but i then thought to my self
"then where are the damn engines"?

if a plane did hit the pentaogn, it sure as hell wasnt a 757

"Something" hit the Pentagon, could have been a set of bombs, or a small missile/jet. Exlosives happened before the strike, Pentagon employees have confirmed. But there is NO EVIDENCE that a 757 hit it. No 757 wing sections, no 757 tail sections, no 757 engines, no 757 fuselage -- nothing but scrap metal small enough to pick up with one hand. Review CNN reporter Jamie McIntyre's report when he got to the Pentagon, as in no passenger plane evidence here. Jim Mikleszewski of NBC News, who was at the Pentagon at the time, originally reported that a bomb went off at the Pentagon at the heliport. Said he smelled an "acrid odor" akin to explosives. No reports of gasoline or kerosene smell. Several reports by him of Pentagon military types telling him a bomb went off. It wasn't until almost an hour or so later that Mikleszewski said "senior Pentagon officials" TOLD HIM that a plane hit the building. Yeah, I'm believing that crap.

...plus we STILL don't have any clear video footage of the plane hitting the building, even though the FBI said there were about 84 tapes confiscated that recorded the event. Now maybe not all of the tapes will have the "perfect angle", but a few do.

What ever is true should stand up to the evidence presented against it. It should also present it's own evidence that can stand the scrutiny of anything.

To determine these things takes free and open communication exchange.

I believe those rights are being taken from us on this board now.

My website has been removed from sticky even though it does not reflect a single change from our trip. That is because I am trying to exchange ideas here to see what stands up to scrutiny. The removal of my site doesn't bother me it is the idea that somebody doesn't want people to see information.

It is like the removal of a previous Lagasse thread just when what had been said in regards to that might have been critical in a flight path analysis thread. Still nobody will say when or why it was deleted.

In a thread that we are simply told what happened and that is it - no questions. Then that thread is made sticky, says goodbye to a valuable poster and then is closed so it can face no further scrutiny.

Posts being deleted when they are nowhere near the level of attack that has been aimed at the poster previously.

Information control will not allow us to discover the answer to our questions so I am abstaining from voting.

The trailer and generator evidence is specific and can be analyzed. I can't accept as evidence that black ops construction crews did it all. The light poles are not explained by white vans driving around. I could go on but the point is the "evidence" provided for these things is nowhere near the evidence for the opposite in my opinion.

I also can not eliminate most other eyewitness testimony for less than one second of testimony by another witness.

But since we are not allowed to investigate and discuss I guess we'll never know. It is just like wondering in America if this post will be deleted by the powers in charge of our discussions and information. People are afraid to speak out even now for fear of being accused of being an agent or getting banned.

We are fighting this very behavior in the Bush administration. It is a shame it has showed up here in a group of people seeking the truth. I guess we may never know.

...plus like this man say, George Nelson, Colonel, USAF (ret.):

"...This was reported to be a Boeing 757, registration number N644AA, carrying 64 people, including the flight crew and five hijackers. This aircraft, with a 125-foot wingspan, was reported to have crashed into the Pentagon...

Following a cool-down of the resulting fire, this crash site would have been very easy to collect enough time-change equipment within 15 minutes to positively identify the aircraft registry. There was apparently some aerospace type of equipment found at the site but no attempt was made to produce serial numbers or to identify the specific parts found. Some of the equipment removed from the building was actually hidden from public view...."

www.scholarsfor911truth

See also: News Conference Statement

Russell,

I have not been a party to all the hooha regarding your reseach and investigation. I don't know about all the posts/threads removed, and I have no idea why the link to your site has been removed here. I have read some heated debates between you and a couple of admins here.

What I'm curious about is how, if you're being persecuted, hounded, discriminated against, whatever here, how is it that you're now an admin here?

Not trying to get crossways with you. I just don't understand all that has transpired over all of this.

Any commentary or explanation you can offer? Maybe I'm just a dumbass that can't see the forest for the trees, but this is all very confusing to me.

Cary

Cary,

I still have no idea how I became an admin.

A thread was started to compare flyover versus impact. I was attacked personally and insulted just as in the flight path and trailers thread. If the evidence I presented was false I have no idea why it is so threatening?

Russell

Ah, the mysterious admin. promotion. Well, we're both in the dark then Russell. Maybe some explanation will be forthcoming.

For christ's sake Russell why don't you leave the soap box for the "soap box forum"?

This is a simple poll thread to feel out member's opinions.

The results speak for themselves.

The Legasse thread is still in the FDR forum where it has always been.

Lyte,

I was explaining why I abstained from voting.

Thank for the answer on the Lagasse thread. I was just going by this:
"Loose Change Forum > The Pentagon > Pentagon Eyewitness William Lagasse Caught Lying"

It showed it in the pentagon thread. And then on this page (third from the bottom) it clearly shows on the Pentagon thread indicating it had been moved.
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_F...last_post&st=50

So it wasn't always in the FDR thread. It was moved there?

Russell

behind,

We don't know IF there has been any attempt to match up the component serial numbers to the maintenance records.

Why don't you lodge a FOIA request about it? Ask something like:

1) Has there been any attempt to match up serial numbers on aircraft components recovered from the Pentagon to the maintenance records of components installed in that aircraft?

2) If not, why not?

3) If so, did all components match records? Were there any discrepancies?

If they reply and provide data showing the components did match, I know what some people are going to say....

If they don't match - you have something to go on.

If they haven't tried, you can question further as to why not.

a small plane - or missle is what i would narrow it down to.

I\'m not sure what really happened at the Pentagon and I really appreciate everyone\'s research into the truth. But one thing has bothered me. If the government spent all that time effort and money to fake the AA plane hitting the pentagon, why didn\'t they spend about 20 minutes and a couple of hundred dollars faking videos?

truthnotlies

I guess so but it was always there as far as I remember.

Your "explanation" was an excuse for a soap box.

Time to get off it.

It's always been there. It was moved by JDX for the fdr forum because he felt it was important.

I have asked the NTSB. They are not aware of any matching being done (they would be the ones to do it, then refer to the FBI). There is an article out there that states the parts were given back to their airline. Why? dunno.. perhaps to refurbish the parts and put them back in inventory.. lol. /sarcasm.

The removal of your site thread was needed. There were too many threads up there. It had it's time up there. i am sure that one of my threads will go one of these days. The Citgo witness is important and does not need additional comments, it needs additional information. And as I get it I will post it.

There is no need for drama on this thread. This is for people to post their feelings on the "impact theory".

No I don't think there ever was a 757 that slammed into the Gon, too much eveidence against it. I've worked for a very large aero-engine manufacture for 24 years and know a thing or two lets say about large high-bypass turbofans. They do not disappear [hmm]

Also while I'm here and relating to above posts....why is it that on this forum there are so many of the "high profile" posters spending so much time arguing amongst theirselves, been rude and offensive to each other when surely the common reason we're all here is to get to the truth about a suspected cover-up? I can't believe how many threads and posts I've read in the past 2 days that start well and end up in a slagging match or at least end with bitchy comments by someone. Worrying thing is that Mods/Admin seem to be involved in the infighting more than regular visitors.

We are talking about a war for minds.

I've seen some bizarre things this last month.

I apologize for all the abrasive exhages you've been seeing, but trust me if you knew what I knew was going on you would feel the same anger and frustration.

Hey Merc no offensive my friend and you don't have to apologize to me. I think your work is excellent and can appreciate how frustrating it must be at times. It just seems sometimes that some opinions are deemed more superior to say yours so that makes theirs right and yours wrong??? I just find it a tad confusing. Maybe some of the veteran posters should quit the bitchy comments cos once they creep in I for one just lose total interest and go back to me Internet Hearts !! ;)

Well something like that. I figure people can read the threads and use their minds, but some people are just too impressionable for me to let that be the case.

I guess I could simply leave and do my own research seperate from this board, but I feel for my safety and because I feel you deserve to find this stuff out in real time, I continue to post here. Some people have been supportive and empathetic to my situation, and encourage me not to leave. So i stay, but I refuse to see the truth be twisted without me having some word in the matter.

Merc, for chrissake, the threads are being altered or moved somewhere else... Its getting ridiculous...

I mean... I'm on your side... I dont see how a 757 could be responsible for that perfectly round punch-out hole... but the situation here in the pentagon section section of the forum is f*cking strange right now...

Ive been following the 9/11 stuff for a few years now and I try to picture myself having just found this place... Its like FOX news but upside down...

Why not let people decide what makes sense or not???

Altered? one post of Russell's was deleted.

One thread was moved to where it properly belongs in debate.

Did you talk to the citgo witness? Would you like to?

You know I didnt talk to your star witness and I dont want to... I just want to understand why you put so much trust in this specific testimony... You know that if this guy is right, it means many other witnesses are lying, this should make you cautious.. instead, you say 'Its over' 'It was a flyover' etc...

why not write a little conclusion statement and close this section of the forum while your at it?...

I have to admit, even if I dont agree with all Russell is saying ( I have my doubts about a 757 impact at the pentagon) I really dont like the way you've treated him lately...

this post of yours.. for example..

Is not a very subtle kick in the nuts.. [thmdwn]

Why do I put so much trust in this specific testimony?

Because I spoke with this witness three times! It completely jives with the flight path we recieved from witnesses and reports of it over the navy annex.

This witness account completely jives with the other witness accounts we recieved.

This witness finally offered that it didn't look like an American Airlines.

This witness told me multiple times that it came from the north side of the gas station-even giving me which pumps it was closest to, made specific reference to being over the "on ramp", "to the left of the bridge". He was very specific. I dotted all my i's and crossed all my T's and Russell was on an all out offensive from day one.

Yeah you didn't know about that huh? Yes in PM when I told him exactly what this witness told me before anyone-BY THE TIME I SPOKE WITH HIM A 2nd TIME, he was already was poo pooing it, coming up with graphics to alter what he was saying.

As a matter of fact, he never called me, almost never, but shortly after the trip he he called me and had the flight path all mapped out. Called me with a "Sorry dude , the mechanical damage matches".

I was already completely dumfounded by his actions before the exchanges started. Lyte and I were fuming at his attempts to legitmize everything before we even got time to digest it all. before i even got to confirm the Citgo witnesses account.

You can think what you want, but it was best that thread was unpinned. I made the decision, and felt the Citgo witness thread should be pinned rather than the plug for his site. He will be fine, there is an advertisement at the bottom of everyone of his posts.

no.

Probably because you need more than one very specific testimony to close the lid on something of that importance...

I'll add that you are asking everyone here to believe YOU... to make a comparison, you guys made a pretty good work at invalidating the cab driver testimony. Id like to see the same kind of treatment, pictures and direct quotes, from your star witness...

Uh what do you mean "no"?

Just saying no doesn't cut it. Trapasso places it above his house. Medlene places it over the little brick house coming from the south near 395, Edward places it headed toward the last wing of the Navy Annex, which in turn supports the Citgo witnesses account.

The witnesses we spoke with called it either white or grey. 3 said grey, one said white. They all said no markings or colors. That jives with my witness.

So what do you mean NO? Where do you get that answer from?

Oh Ok, so you are pulling the same shit Russell is?

This witness' account is what it is, I spoke with him 3 times! And will undoubtedly speak with him again. No one is asking to believe me. Don't believe me, stay in denial or whatever it is you are into.

We didn't invalidate the cab driver testimony, THE f*ckING CAB DRIVER INVALIDATED THE CAB DRIVER'S TESTIMONY.

You try and play the consumate skeptic all you want, I don't get it. You don't believe a 757 hit the Pentagon and don't agree with Russell, but you want to call me out the only person saving you from a large plane knocking down some light poles and hitting the pentagon?

I think I know where you are coming from. ;)

You're trying to establish a flightpath by placing dots over witnesse's heads and then tracing a line... that line doesnt match with the lightpoles damage... thats it... your witness is at the end of that line so, yes, his account is very relevant if it is true... but remember we got at least one guy who saw the plane hit the building, and dozens more that believes it did... how the F do we tell them apart?

My point is, if you take ALL the witnesses, and try to draw a line youll end up with an impossibility... that plane would be all over the place...

Flyover? Ok... I dont know why they would do that but please find someone who saw that! Not someone who didnt saw a 757 hit the Pentagon.. cause thats nothing special..

It's more than that, he says it pulled up. he offered that on his own. he specifically places it in a place it cannot be, but stragnely jives with part of the animation and Lagasse's account.

I've reconclied a lot of the witnesses, but none are willing to talk now and give their side of things, if their account is gospel then why are we doing this.

We spoke with 3 witnesses after the fact, not even with the known identity of the airline were they even able to remotely come close to the identification of the plane.

I mean maybe we should just give up and let the official story stand, I mean that's what you're saying basically right RacerX? Maybe we should let Russell prove that it was a silver AA 757 that hit the light pole,s pentagon etc and then watch what happens when not ONE person can PROVE that it was swapped out and remote guided.

If the witnesses are so right about what they saw, why hasn't ONE person come out and told us to shut up about it, Jamie mcIntyre came out and tried to dispell the rumors, you think a group of say 5 witnesses would come out and correct us. Where are they?

Russell has a website that says that the punch-out hole couldve been made with a wall-breaching kit, whatever that is... I dont think thats something he found in the official commission report... Let Russell prove what he wants, and you can do the same thing...

People with common sense can have their own opinion, no need to lock threads, move them or edit them...

I cant decide if its a 757 flyover or a 757 impact because Im not convinced of either... Im not arguing with you because I want to 'just give up and let the official story stand'...

I think I said all I wanted to say... make what you want out of that...

ADMIN EDIT: Unneeded antagonistic comment.

Merc,

You really are starting to amaze me. You believe you are here to lead people's minds to the truth and protect them from me?

Wow!

I bet the comment you deleted from racerx is nowhere near the stuff you launched at me in the Flyover thread.

What you would do if you didn't have the "authority" to control information here with the belief you are the guardian of truth? What if you had to rely on presenting evidence only? What if you heard everything people had to say that are afraid to post for fear of being accused of being an agent, banned or edited?

It is truly like you have completely lost a fair perspective and believe you are the only one who is right. How many people have to tell you how this appears?

If people go and read the Flyover thread and look for the evidence they will see for themselves. But one of the readers mentioned he got tired of the garbage. That is the purpose of bombing a thread like that the way you and Lyte did is to discourage people from reading it. Obfuscation plain and simple.

Then to say "you know who I am"? Do you know how far from being any sort of an agent I am? You can say that about the witnesses you don't like but I know who I am. Your suspicions are totally unfounded. I swear to God on my death and the death of my entire family and all of our fiery eternities in hell that I am exactly who I say I am and seem to be. I have zero affiliation with any government. It is in your mind only.

Doesn't it worry you that you are believing something like that when it has no basis in reality?

Russell

Dude, you've hijacked a perfectly innocent thread with your drama. Please knock it off.

Remember what this thread is about. People are going off because of the personal stuff. Keep it on the threads they originated on or make a new thread about it. You can do what you feel is appropriate...you're an admin too now.