This is a long shot but do you have links to the raw FDR data and interpreted results maybe from other crashes or other investigations recorded by the same or similar recorders? I'm thinking of trying to reverse engineer the data. I know nothing about flight but have experience with compression and binary files.

Again, this is really a long shot.

From what the NTSB and other corporations have told us is that we are not supposed to have this file (the .fdr file.. which is the raw data).

We are the only ones that have it. All others have the .csv file and animation (which we also have).

We have known this fact for quite sometime. However, we didnt want to go public with it till we got some feedback in trying to decode it. Its obvious we are hitting brick walls with this data. It also leads one to think there may be a whistleblower within the NTSB that let us have this specific file (pure speculation.. but no one else has this file but us.. and when we called the NTSB regarding this specific file.. they said we werent supposed to have it).

Now.. with al lthat said.. if this specific file confirmed the official govt story.. you would think they would bend over backwards to decode this file for us to dispute the other files we have which show the aircraft too high to hit the light poles and in conflict with the DOD video.

Its obvious from the above exchyange shown in this thread.. no one wants to come forward to help decode it.

As i said.. even if this file does back up the official govt theory... it is still opposed by 4 other sources.. AND will open another can of worms regarding the vertical speed.

I have no idea why govt agencies or Boeing will not offer to decode this file.. .but i can guess... ;)

I'll leave the rest up to you all that read this and make up your own minds...

I go public with this information because i have had enough of hitting brick walls with this stuff.

Next we start with media outlets and see when exactly the NTSB or FBI will start to offer explainations.

We still live in America last time i checked.. I'd like to think We the People still have the power to demand answers! We the People dont have to bow to our corporate superiors.

Spread the word far and wide on this development and tell Alex Jones i have been trying to contact him to get this on the air. We may do a follow up with Jack Blood soon.

azrael im doing the same thing. i have the fdr and csv, from multiple sources, and am using mathematica as my engine to do the decryption. im not sure but am fairly certain i have all of the codes needed for the decode and will know better tomorrow. any help though is greatly appreciated.

water. .no offense.. but you said you were working on this last month.

You havent offered much.. but i appreciate you trying to step up to the plate...

Lets see some results please.. either way.

Does it really take more than a month to try to decode a file?

Boeing says they can do it in 10 minutes... granted they have the decode software.. but still.. can you do it or no...........?

also.. if anyone feels threatened or offended by my "straight shooter-in your face attitude"

Tough shit! ... i want answers and im not gonna sugar coat it to get them. Im past attracting more bee's with honey. Im past trying to do a tap-dance for answers...

Give me answers or im gonna get in your face.


:D


[flyaway]

have you ever tried to decode and decrypt anything in your spare time while working full time, having a gf with a serious illness, and having other projects that take up a huge percentage of your time? well, thats the scenario i am faced with, i dont have alot of time to devote to doing this sort of thing, and yet i do it anyway. boeing only needs ten minutes to decode the file because the actual process of running the decryption is a short process. writing the scripts and the algorithms that the process uses to do the decoding takes a hell of a lot longer than ten minutes. companies pay people large salaries for years to do the kind of work im trying to get done, and im doing it out of sheer interest. lets add on top of the issue, the fact that i am having to research the codes used and do the reverse engineering, practically on my own.

boeing and you might be able to fly a plane to DC and back in a day, but im not about to get into the plane that was built by boeing if it was built in a day. and for the record i do not feel threatened by your mannerisms and i dont see it as being a 'straight shooter" or "in your face", i see it as being abrasive and insulting. thats my opinion and im entitled to it. you may not like me, and personally i really dont care, but posts like the one im now responding to are stupid, unprofessional, and a waste of time. really what purpose did it serve? does it matter to you whether i decode the damned thing or not? hopefully your answer would be 'yes it matters. id like to see you get it decoded' i'd find any other respose to be counter productive to our cause, and surely you arent interested in that. and if indeed your answer IS 'yes it matters. id like to see you get it decoded' then how about you stop with the personal bullshit and stop wasting what time i do have available. cheers.

When will people realize this isnt a hobby?

Water.. i respect your position.. but if you think the govt had anything to do with 9/11... i would hope.. no... i would expect every amount of time and effort into decoding this file.. especially... no.. im not gonnna say it...

Lets just put it this way... i have devoted my life to finding the truth.. this is not a hobby to me... and until i get answers.. i wont rest.. i wont defer.. i wont be distracted by spin.. family.. or friends...

Get it?

Now.. you may think of this as a hobby.. im sorry to hear you have an ill girlfriend... im a cancer survivor myself.. but it does not detour me from being a patriot 24/7.

(sometimes 27-30 hours straight)

Furthermore.. i have decoded what i know how to decode. I have done it thoroughly.. i have made a website due to it (well.. all of us pilots have. .including the FDR research team.. Russell and Merc), and i have done interviews with more to come.. so dont even try to tell me what my contributions have been.

Far be it for me to defend a CTer (I am a skeptic, through and through), but, JohnDoeX, you are way out of line here.

Trying to decode a file of which you have no initial knowledge of the structure is a very hefty task, even more so if the file has been compressed using an unkown algorithm - this creates an additional layer of indirection: you need to work out how to decompress the data before you can attempt to decode it.

I would imagine it would take much longer than a month to crack the file. I have been programming for over 14 years and this is certainly not a task that I would want to undertake.

Of course, I don't need to do it, since it has already been done by the crash investigators. :D

It has? Excellent.. show us the decoded .fdr file from the "crash investigators".


water... its not a good sign when a "skeptic" runs to your aid... you know why.

I would presume that you have the decoded file, since you used the flight path data as "proof" that it was not Flight 77 that hit The Pentagon.

And, I ask, why it is not a good sign when someone tries to defend someone who is being unfairly criticised? Does it matter if that person is a skeptic or not?

JDX, you clearly do not have a firm grasp of what you are asking water to do. Some would even argue you do not have a firm grasp on reality.

Water, like everybody else on this forum, is doing this work voluntarily (no matter how misguided I think it is). You are in no position to be making demands of anybody - he owes you nothing.

Also, JDX, while I have your attention - as a pilot, do I qualify for membership in "Pilots for Truth"? Does it matter if our opinions of what the truth is differ?

Eagerly awaiting your response.

EDIT: Fixed minor typo.

Quote me where i said AA77 did not hit the pentagon based on the FDR provided by the NTSB. Be sure to include "proof" in my quote as you seem to quote me on that exact word.

You are currently at 2 posts total on this forum. Your 3rd post better be an apology that you couldnt find that specific quote.. or quoting me exactly that with a link.

If it differs in any way... i will ban you automatically.

(in other words.. im tired of people putting words in my mouth)

So.. go find a quote from me.. with a link.. to your claims.. no more bullshit.

See... document everything.. ;)

I know what i said...

waiting patiently for your quote.

(crickets chirping)

(crickets are falling asleep)

Having problems qarnos? hmmm.. .let me check that IP.

hmmm.. another one from down under.. why am i not surprised...

Why do people from outside the US come here to tout the official USA govt story? Yet the majority of these people outside the USA hate the Bush Admin?

Makes no sense to me...

I can understand foreigners coming here to help us find the truth.. .and i have the utmost respect for them...

But foriegners coming here to suppress Americans from questioning their govt? All i can think of is that these people have ZERO life in their own country...lol

You're going to ban him if he's wrong about what he claims you said and doesnt apologize? :blink:

Slick.. why do you believe that no planes hit the WTC? Why are you showing "proof" that Osama Bin Laden is still alive and wants to attack us?


(you get my point?)

Now imagine this bullshit 5 times a day...

Well yeah of course it sucks to have words put in your mouth but if I was an admin right now I wouldn't even think about banning your for it. If you couldn't show me proof I would just deem you a retard and go about my day. Normally in a message board the ban function is for people who spam or go around causing trouble, not people who says something in the heat of an argument which is wrong but refuses to apologize. But that's just my opinion. :)

also let me add... is it ok if he is wrong about what i said and doesnt apologize?


Is it ok if i go around putting words in your mouth? I suppose it wont matter to you?

Do you have a website that gets 2000 hits per day? Do you have people attacking you from every angle?

By the way Slick.. what have you done for the movement? I'd love to see your link.

Causing trouble you say?

What do you think this is???

Are you defending this man that is putting words in my mouth after his second post?

Do you know how many trolls we get making 5,6,7,8-10 member ID's per day?

Slick... you are getting me :angry:

Walk a day in my shoes before you criticize please.

I have a somewhat active forum, not nearly as active as this one, and since its an entertainment forum there is rarely heated arguments and insults being thrown around. I never said it's ok for people to put words in your mouth, im saying that sometimes banning everyone isn't always the answer. Heated arguments are bound to happen and sometimes it's best to win through words then through trying to shut them up by banning them. And about what iv'e done for the movement, I dont see how it's relevant at all to this conversation, you're trying to get me upset because you're upset and im not going to let you do it. I have done what I can do for the movement and I dont owe it to you to write out my resume or to prove myself just because I question threats and bans.

I do aplogise - you did not state that "based on the FDR provided by the NTSB, Flight 77 did not hit the pentagon".

Quite obviously, however, this is your belief: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/ar/t10153.htm

Is this your standard operating procedure? Ban any dissenting voices until only those who agree with your view remain? Shame.

So, can I join "Pilots for Truth" or not?

dissenting voices? no...

those who put words in my mouth and create spin... yes.

Thank you for your apology..

Any airline employee is welcome to join Pilots for Truth... email me at pilotsfortruth@yahoo.com with your full name, airline emp number... airline.. base.. and position.. and you're in.

The moment you put words in our mouth as you have done here today without proper research.. you're gone.. deal?

"belief"?


No... again you're putting words in my mouth.

You are confusing facts that i see.. with belief... Its a fact that the compressor disk matches a JT8D more than an RB211 due to that slotted disk.. .no one has been able to show me that slotted disk on a RB211 (perhaps you can?)

And since you are telling ME what MY beliefs are... combined with your continued claims of putting words in my mouth.. this is warn number one for you...

Slick.. is he banned? ... no.

He admitted his mistake..

This isnt a hobby forum.. this isnt an entertainment forum. Please stop trying to side track me from my work.

Or perhaps we should let the trolls run free? on a 9/11 forum?

Check your PM's please.. as now im willing to revoke my prior recommendation.

Interesting that now im being threatened. Well it's not going to work on me. If you are looking for a fight, look elsewhere. I made the comments which were on my mind and that's that. If you want to "revoke" my access then it's your decision. My contributions have been pretty obvious and frankly you're in no position to question them just because you don't agree with me about this subject and your name is blue in a message board.

your implication that i am not a patriot 24/7 is unfounded. i have to work full time and spend time caring for my gf, and devote time also to my many projects of which ecoding the fdr data is one of, but they are overwhelmingly associated with the truth movement in some form or fashion. my job is in direct involvement with governmental resistance, and i spend about 12 hours a day 6 days a week at it. if it werent for that i wouldnt have nearly the time to access the internet as i do. either way the task at hand is of importance, but rather difficult, and i am devoting as much time as i can to it. i honestly dont think that decoding the fdr is of critical iprtance since it is not likely to change much once it is done. exposing the truth at this stage of things will only serve as a form of validation and vindication for truthers. the establishment is going to continue in thier plan no matter what we prove to each other. i tend to spend my energy getting prepared for and studying information about what is to come. if i'm running the risk of being locked in a concentration camp for being a truther or become branded as a terrorist for my views then i also want to know that i am prepared to prevent my capture as well as the capture of countless others. i hate to say this, and it in no way deters my resolve to exposing the truth, but no matter how much proof we put out there it will not change the course of things to come. this group of people that we now call our government is not going to let us, the people, impeach, remove, or replace any significant part of thier regime. the best we can hope for is to convince as many people as possible to side with us, rather than with the government.

sorry for my chia-rant (just add water and watch it grow), and as for the comment about skeptics, heres another one of my personal opinions : its the skeptics who should be geting the most of our attentions and courtesy. truthers already beleive, they dont need to be convinced. skeptics are people with just as many good qualities that benifit our cause as truthers. however convincing a skeptic is far more useful than convincing a flag follower. flag followers follow whatever is before them. skeptics actually defend thier convictions, regardless of what they are. a skeptic turned beleiver will be one of your most staunch of supporters, even in the face of opposition. it may also further sour your opinoin of me, and if so, fine, but i was a skeptic until earlier this year. i thought al CTers were schizoid and that they were full of utter nonsense. it was over the course of the last few years and specifically a few occurances earlier this year that changed my entire outlook. i am in the fullest, supportive and active in the truth movement, but i do look at most everything with a skeptics eye. i feel it balances me, and am happy with that outcome. anyone that supports someone based on the fact that they feel they are in the right is a decent person to me, and i welcome thier support regardless of whether or not our opinions differ. i feel very strongly that i should always be on the side of right, even if it means that i am prove4d to be in the wrong. cheers.

slick.. when you are in this tough position.. under constant attack.. on a 9/11 forum... please come see me.

Until then.. we'll start "anew".

[blablabla] [blablabla] [blablabla]


[yawn]

by the way water... you're welcome for the un-ban after you attacked me the last time.

mod edit: yes

I find it hard to believe that you would allow any "healthy debate" in your forums after your threat to ban me.

I can admit when I have erred.

Only airline employees? No PPLs or CPLs out of contract? Are their views of less value? Are you an airline employee?

Does your group only study the events surrounding The Pentagon and Flight 77? Or does being a pilot allow you to perform stutural analysis of collapsing buildings?

Define "poper research".

"poper research"? - cant define it...

But "proper research" means doing your research prior to making a statement so you dont have to apologize for it.

Im guilty of that as well. .and yes. .sometimes i have to apologize. But.. it hasnt happened in a while.. the last one was with abbyanne.

I allow healthy debate for those who make healthy statements without spin. You obviously tried to put words in my mouth. I gave you an ultimatum because i come under attack everyday with the same BS you tried. Now you know better to research prior to making a statement... no?

I expect you to do the same to me if i put words in your mouth.. or perhaps you dont mind if i edit your posts saying you believe that no planes hit the WTC? (thats what you did to me essentially)

If you fear being banned.. dont quote other erroneously and you have nothing to fear... fair?

Perhaps a better deal is if you do quote others erroneously, without doing proper research prior.. then you will forgive those that quote you erroneously.. up to 5 times a day?

did i in any way, at any time in that post of mine attack you personally? id i insult your integrity? did i demean or belittle you in anyway? was i at any time acusational or did i once question your sincerity?

why then are you responding the way you do? i was offering a rebuttle to your accusations against me, surely i have that right. this isnt meant to be offensive, but has it ever crossed your mind that perhaps the reason you find yourself imbroiled in these constant attacks and heated exchanges is due to the way that you treat others? perhaps you are not the victim but rather the victimizer? just some food for thought.

mod edit: still waiting for you to reply to PM.

Please refrain.

wow.. 3 at once.. ok.. i can deal...

yes.. yes.. yes.. and yes...


Does anyone here feel im a liar? Does anyone here feel im trying to do anything but protect the integrity of information? Does anyone here feel my work is bogus? Does anyone here feel im insincere? Does anyone here feel.. if the govt had something to do with 9/11.. that we will never have disruptors in our forums?

The basic way you can tell genuine truth seekers from those that want to divide.. are those that try to disrupt and spin....

Who here does that most?

Have i been nothing but transparent? Or do you guys think i spin and ignore facts...

I am not an expert in jet engines (which, I am guessing, either are you), but to me it seems the slots you are asserting don't exist in the cuttaway diagram are:

1) obscured by other components; and
2) too small to be resolvable in any case.

I certainly hope your case does not rest on that.

1) I am not telling YOU what YOUR claims are. I am simplying reading what YOU have written in the past.
2) I have never claimed to put words in your mouth.

water bender.. i dont trust you.. i have said that in the past.. you tried to take a position of defending gunbunny when it was obvious he did nothing but distract. .you were tossed from the FDR forum (after i invited you there)... you got pissed and attacked me personally in several public forums. I banned you... Merc pleaded your case.. i unbanned you.. now you are starting in again.. now i ban you again.. this time.. you dont come back.


Slick.. i have defended you before..

you come here without knowing all the facts.. you have no idea what its like in my shoes. .and you defend a guy who has two posts on here putting words in my mouth.. you are gone as well...

We see where your loyality falls.

Now, if anyone has a problem with what i just did... please PM me and we'll sort it out as im tired of divide on this forum.

Dude.. you have told me what my "beliefs" are. .you have told me that i have "proof" that AA77 didnt hit the pentagon..


who you trying to kid here?

Come on dude.. you do realize your posts stay there for others to read after you post. .right?

The slotted disk.. please do more research.. its obvious you dont have a clue.. let me know if you need a link.

JDX,

IMHO you need to relax take a step back man, YOU are not under constant attack... theres a difference between being baited by an obvious troll and being asked/proposed an honest question...

To be honest, its impossible for you, or anyone, to click 5000 times on the 'post' button and keep the whole thing bullshit-free... that simple fact should be enough for you to understand why you feel 'attacked'..

Im back from a week vacation and catching-up with stuff on the forum... and its scary... like watching a bad movie on ffwd... I see patterns.. theres nothing new really, just layers of crap being added over what are interresting topics..

btw, I know what it is to be a website admin... I know what happens when you get too 'involved'.. get too close and lose perspective a bit.


[daze]