The Light, of course, first topic

Okay, so aside from that whole, "who is and isn't" the light thing, I let's talk about what exactly that represents for Cloud and Aeris in the KH series.

Since there is no real guideline for how to be someone's light, what do you think makes Aeris Cloud's?

Mickey in KH:CoM was Riku's light because he was a gentle, guiding force. Kairi was Sora's light because they had a special bond.

Do you see it as more an abstract quality a person has an not what they are? Or something that comes out between two people in a certain situation, helping them out of the darkness? Or do you see it as a mix of all of the above?

Discuss plz.

In the first KH (before all these other KH games were out), I thought it was obvious Aeris was Cloud's light. Taking what everyone knew about Cloud in FFVII and adding it to the Cloud in KH you would generally assume that he's looking for Aeris. The ending only reinforced it for me since he finds her along with every other main Disney character finding/being with someone they care for.

KH2 really messed that idea up in my opinion since he's still looking and he knows where Aeris is. Tifa tries to give Cloud her light but in my opinion, that didn't work too well. And Sephiroth is definitely not symbolized by "light".

I think in the end, the light Cloud is looking for is within himself. His own light that radiated from him was a different color than Tifa's so I'm quite convinced that it wasn't hers he needed. I think it fits perfectly since Cloud was always down on himself and him tapping into his inner strength would make him a new person. I think both Aeris and Tifa can contribute to it, but they can't replace his with theirs.

When it comes to Cloud's side story, I don't think "light" can be simply defined as another person or a bond. It can be taken that way with the other characters though. I think the safer assumption would be that the "light" is a source of strength and courage. All the characters seem to be trying to find their source whether it is something within them, a memory or another person. But all this is my own interpretation.

So yeah, the "light" could be almost anything. D:

In Kingdom Hearts 1, the answer is fairly obvious. It's Aeris. The light he refers to is someone, if I remember correctly (he specifically states he's looking for "someone" and since he says he "fell into the darkness" on accident, it's obvious he's not looking for his darkness a.k.a. Sephiroth). Compound that with the end of FFVII and KH and you've got a fairly strong case for Aeris being the light.

However, in KH2 when Cloud is still searching for his frickin light, and Aeris is standing there in front of him making fun of him for it, you have to re-think the position. However, I honestly think Aeris is still a "light" to Cloud. She's a stable influence on him that can accept his leaving her with the assurance that he'll show up again, she just has to wait patiently. HOWEVER, in terms of the light that Cloud searches for in KH2, it is his own inner light. He must guide himself and internally must face his darkness (represented externally as Sephiroth)--no one else can defeat Sephiroth for Cloud. I don't think this means that Aeris isn't a light--she's a different sort of light though.

On the issue of Tifa (I HATE how she's characterized in KH2, ugh), I can't really give my opinions on whether she's a light or not for Cloud as I'm not really certain of their relationship. She's searching for him, yes, but I mean--he's hanging around in town pretty casually for a lot of the game, and I'm not too certain that they're actually ultraclose in terms of Kingdom Hearts-canon as they are in FFVII-canon. :| However, assuming that they ARE close, I think that Tifa simply has the wrong idea about how to go about solving Cloud's problems. I'm not certain if she can be a "guiding light" sort of influence on Cloud (although she is close to him), but she is almost--too caring, I guess? @____@;; She wants to help him so much, she tries to give him HER light, without considering the possibility that maybe the light within him must defeat Sephiroth? It's all very confusing in the end, ugh.

IN CONCLUSION: They're milking FFVII's characters in KH for a completely nonsensical subplot. 8D

lol! Actually, this topic was spawned in part because I was struggling over Tifa's role. I'm not so much angered by her characterization as confused. I know the FF characters are simply cameos, but even in comparison to Yuffie they've made her one dimensional.

I think there's a case to make for her being Cloud's light, but only if you assume she's not human. After all, a human girl with no darkness is a Princess of Heart, so there would be even more plotholes in this light subplot if we assumed that.

If Tifa is indeed simply a part of Cloud as Sephiroth is, than I wonder what that says about Cloud's character. Riku also struggled with light and darkness, but he didn't have two sides of himself running around all over the place. Hm.

Then again, Sephiroth (as a part of Cloud) can easily find Cloud no matter what, while Tifa seems to struggle even though they're in exactly the same town. Whether Cloud is subconciously blocking her or she's just not very good at this, I don't know.

At the end of the day, Tifa seems to believe her mission isn't complete and Cloud still hasn't found the light, which wouldn't make sense if it was her. While encouraging Cloud, Aeris even said "when you find the light, you'll know", and I think that's true. Cloud's a dunce sometimes, but if this is what his journey is about I don't think he'd ignore a solution right in front of his face.

As for Aeris -- she was certainly the one Cloud was searching for in KH1. Well, generally, he was trying to get home, but I think there is significance in the fact that their reunion is closed in on in KH1 to complete his story, and she is shown again in KH2. Aeris is shown as an ending to his sidestories both times, so I think she certainly has a significant part in Cloud's life and even his quest.

Personally, I just don't think tossing around beams of light is enough to qualify you as a person's light -- it just means you have a very pure heart (since Sora uses light pwrs all the time). Then again, I also think it's possible for more than one person to be your light. Can't Tifa be the literal embodiment of Cloud's light, while Aeris is the guiding light that aids Cloud from afar?

WELL YEAH BUT I LIKE TO TALK.

I think the reason I was so angered by Tifa's characterization was the fact that she had no independent interests besides Cloud. All of the other princess of the heart that played some sort of part in the story had interests outside of one person and I felt that it really limited Tifa in that she is simply there for Cloud rather than as an independent being.

I do think there's a possibility that she is a light for Cloud with Aerith, but at the same time, I'm not sure. I would think the opposite of light (darkness--or Sephiroth) would be able to recognize his "opposite" and so I tend to take his quote on "your light doesn't suit him" (or whatever he says D:) to Tifa at face value. She does, I think have a possibility of being a "light" for Cloud LATER ON, I think, but as of right now, I'm going to have to disagree with that interpretation of her character in the context of the (very limited) role she plays in KHII.

Honestly, however, we really don't know enough about her beyond "WHERE'S CLOUD?" in my opinion to really judge her importance. :|

Yeah. I mean, I really liked seeing her, but Nomura at some point needs to stop with INTERPRETATIONZ and just say whatever he meant. It shouldn't be that hard if you want to depict Tifa as a human or a creature of light, but it can't go both ways, and you can't BS and say "Well, I really had no idea what the fuck I was doing, so decide for yourselves and save me the trouble!"

If she is the embodiment of Cloud's light, then it would make more sense. If she's just a friend from 5 years ago running around chasing him that's. Kinda weird. Even odder since KH!Tifa doesn't even seem slightly interested in Cloud romantically, so there isn't even that excuse.

Maybe he just figured since it was character fanservice he could just toss them in and have them run around for no real explainable reason.

That's true -- I forgot about that line. If they were opposing forces, maybe it would have been more accurate for him to say "he doesn't need you[r light]" or something like that.

aslfdjrght oh god the KH plot holes just keep getting deeper. lol, You know, even Tifa herself doesn't seem that interested in the sidequest. She bullshits for half the game and then once she finds him she's all "LEMME HELP. OH WAIT YOU LEFT. SO UH. I GUESS I'LL WALK AROUND SOME MORE. LOL SORA HAVE A KEYBLADE."

DING DING DING WINNER.

Seriously, I mean the part with her looking under the frickin desk? Unless that's her idea of ~thoroughly searching~ which then--well fuck, how the hell did she find them at all? Shouldn't she be beating up Scrooge McDuck instead and insisting that I KNOW YOU HAVE HIM IN YOUR FREEZER.