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Pages: (3) [1] 2 3  ( Go to first unread post )

 Greece vs Mongols vs Persia, A three-way slug fest
Guardian Of Nesh
Posted: Mar 26 2008, 03:06 AM


Unregistered









Okay so the mongols are invading Greece at a time, let's say 5 monts before the Persians show up. So this war is actually a two-parter. Who wins or is winning before the Persians show up and who wins over-all? Yes this includes those famous 300. Aliances are allowed which means possible back-stabbing, outline these in your posts.
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super_wolverine_Man
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 12:06 AM


Head Admin


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Joined: 9-January 08



i know this probably won't spark any great debates, but the Mongols murder them any which way


--------------------

Points:

"The first shot rang out from somewhere and I heard a bullet wiz by my face. With my pump action shotgun ready, I shoot the first fool I see."

Grano's so gangster.
Top
The Ripper
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 01:11 AM


Knight of the Ivory Axe


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Member No.: 12
Joined: 11-January 08



Here is the answer in Persian point of view:

Persians:

We were advanced for our age.

The Immortals were actually heavily armored.

We had a better economy.


--------------------
Points:


QUOTE ("Friedrich Nietzsche")
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you...
Top
DataSnake
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 01:33 AM


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Joined: 10-January 08



QUOTE (The Ripper @ Mar 27 2008, 01:11 AM)
Here is the answer in Persian point of view:

Persians:

We were advanced for our age.

The Immortals were actually heavily armored.

We had a better economy.

The immortals were actually pwned by the Spartans, who were ALSO actually armored. Nobody messed with the phalanx until Macedonia.


--------------------
Points:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
Top
The Ripper
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 02:05 AM


Knight of the Ivory Axe


Group: Members
Posts: 2,926
Member No.: 12
Joined: 11-January 08



How were we pwned?

This guy said we won!


--------------------
Points:


QUOTE ("Friedrich Nietzsche")
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you...
Top
boston_celtics
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 03:25 AM


The Bobby Fischer of the CBUB


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The Mongols conquered them before, they do it again.


--------------------
"History does nothing; it does not possess immense riches, it does not fight battles. It is men, real, living, who do all this."

-Karl Marx

Two words are enough!

BEAT L.A.
Top
Wingman
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 12:32 PM


I'm better than you. That's all I know.


Group: Admin
Posts: 2,439
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Joined: 11-January 08



Greeks take it. I have to keep this short.

Mongols lose, since most of the land is rocky and bad in general for cavalry. The Greek plalanx is arguably even more effective against enemies, especially cavalry, than the legion, but you sacrifice mobility. But that's okay, since they'll likely fight in narrow defiles and small passes like Thermopylae. They will fight a delaying action, inflicting terrible losses. And the Immortals, in real life, WEREN'T armored. That was the weakness of Persian infantry. Even the Immortals were armed with a short spear that couldn't compete with the pike of the plalanx, and all the armor they had was a shield made of wicker. That's why they got shredded by the heavily armored Greeks, with their bronze breastplates, helmets, and hoplons, or shields. The five months give the Greeks enough time to mass many forces in the north, and they drive back the Mongols, who simply can't operate well on rocky, uneven ground. When the Persians arrive, they get pawned much more easily than the Mongols were. You try charging into a wall, a literal THICKET, of bronze and iron tipped spears, three and four ranks deep, to reach the first man in the line. Back that up with skirmishers on the flanks and rear with slings, bows, and javalins, and this formation is hard to beat. Sorry, Ripper, but Greece takes this. You can't argue with Western military supremacy through the ages.


--------------------
"Never in the course of human history has so much been owed by so many to so few."- Winston Churchill, commenting on the heroic struggles of the RAF against the German Luftwaffe.

----
I don't smoke, I don't chew... and I don't date girls who do.

----

War produces classic remarks by military commanders; on February 26, 1991, the US 1st Armored Division, the famous Big Red One, encountered the allegedly elite Iraqi Republican Guard. The divisional commander, Major General Ronald Griffiths, radioed his deputy, who was riding with the armored spearhead. "I understand we are engaging the Medina Division?" he said, referring to one of the crack Iraqi Guard divisions. "Negative, sir," came the reply. "We are destroying the Medina Division."
Great proof that despite their quantity, the Soviet tanks that NATO planners feared above all else could be shredded by the M1 Abrams, Challenger 2, Leopard 2, LeClerc, Ariete, and Merkava with ease. Patton would be proud.

Top
The Ripper
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 05:34 PM


Knight of the Ivory Axe


Group: Members
Posts: 2,926
Member No.: 12
Joined: 11-January 08





--------------------
Points:


QUOTE ("Friedrich Nietzsche")
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you...
Top
Wingman
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 06:32 PM


I'm better than you. That's all I know.


Group: Admin
Posts: 2,439
Member No.: 14
Joined: 11-January 08



QUOTE (The Ripper @ Mar 26 2008, 09:11 PM)
Here is the answer in Persian point of view:

Persians:

We were advanced for our age.

The Immortals were actually heavily armored.

We had a better economy.

Actually, read "Carnage and Culture" by Victor Davis Hanson. It clearly outlines how the Persian economy was stagnant at the time of the invasion of Greece, because of a number of factors, most of which involve the king sticking his nose in an otherwise good situation. Ripper, lets get one thing straight before we continue: I'm not in any way bashing on your heritage, man, nor an I saying I hate Middle Easterners. I'm just stating the facts. Heck, I'm a forth generation Slovenian on my mom's side, and could care less about them. I don't know if they even fought and won a big battle! You can bash me all you want! I'm just saying this so you don't start thinking of me as a Persian hater or something. I do like the Greeks, and have studied them extensively, but I don't have any problem with your heritage.


--------------------
"Never in the course of human history has so much been owed by so many to so few."- Winston Churchill, commenting on the heroic struggles of the RAF against the German Luftwaffe.

----
I don't smoke, I don't chew... and I don't date girls who do.

----

War produces classic remarks by military commanders; on February 26, 1991, the US 1st Armored Division, the famous Big Red One, encountered the allegedly elite Iraqi Republican Guard. The divisional commander, Major General Ronald Griffiths, radioed his deputy, who was riding with the armored spearhead. "I understand we are engaging the Medina Division?" he said, referring to one of the crack Iraqi Guard divisions. "Negative, sir," came the reply. "We are destroying the Medina Division."
Great proof that despite their quantity, the Soviet tanks that NATO planners feared above all else could be shredded by the M1 Abrams, Challenger 2, Leopard 2, LeClerc, Ariete, and Merkava with ease. Patton would be proud.

Top
The Ripper
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 06:48 PM


Knight of the Ivory Axe


Group: Members
Posts: 2,926
Member No.: 12
Joined: 11-January 08



I see that.

I just saw some videos that got me a bit riled.


--------------------
Points:


QUOTE ("Friedrich Nietzsche")
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster... when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you...
Top
DataSnake
Posted: Mar 27 2008, 07:39 PM


Emperor of Mankind


Group: Members
Posts: 487
Member No.: 9
Joined: 10-January 08



QUOTE (The Ripper @ Mar 27 2008, 02:05 AM)
How were we pwned?

This guy said we won!

He also says Iran has cured AIDS, which he maintains was "invented" by Greeks engaging in gay beastiality (actually, it has fuck-all to do with sexual orientation and is currently believed to have crossed over from other primates to humans in Africa, in a completely NON-SEXUAL manner). He also seems to think that PRESENT-DAY Iran coming in ahead of PRESENT-DAY Greece in a variety of areas is somehow relevant to what happened thousands of years ago.
He also shows how unbiased he is with the following quote:
QUOTE
You damn American movie makers have to realize that the Persians will soon run your country, we are no africans eyetalians latinos arabs nor russians who would just sit quietly and watch you diss them in your movies we fight fire with even more fire, behold for you are about to watch the mother of all movies.

I believe he can be safely dismissed as an expert on anything.


--------------------
Points:

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!
Top
Wingman
Posted: Apr 8 2008, 12:29 PM


I'm better than you. That's all I know.


Group: Admin
Posts: 2,439
Member No.: 14
Joined: 11-January 08



QUOTE (DataSnake @ Mar 27 2008, 03:39 PM)
QUOTE (The Ripper @ Mar 27 2008, 02:05 AM)
How were we pwned?

This guy said we won!

He also says Iran has cured AIDS, which he maintains was "invented" by Greeks engaging in gay beastiality (actually, it has fuck-all to do with sexual orientation and is currently believed to have crossed over from other primates to humans in Africa, in a completely NON-SEXUAL manner). He also seems to think that PRESENT-DAY Iran coming in ahead of PRESENT-DAY Greece in a variety of areas is somehow relevant to what happened thousands of years ago.
He also shows how unbiased he is with the following quote:
QUOTE
You damn American movie makers have to realize that the Persians will soon run your country, we are no africans eyetalians latinos arabs nor russians who would just sit quietly and watch you diss them in your movies we fight fire with even more fire, behold for you are about to watch the mother of all movies.

I believe he can be safely dismissed as an expert on anything.

Sounds like Ahmadinejad, or however the heck you spell his name. My Arabic is rusty. wink.gif


--------------------
"Never in the course of human history has so much been owed by so many to so few."- Winston Churchill, commenting on the heroic struggles of the RAF against the German Luftwaffe.

----
I don't smoke, I don't chew... and I don't date girls who do.

----

War produces classic remarks by military commanders; on February 26, 1991, the US 1st Armored Division, the famous Big Red One, encountered the allegedly elite Iraqi Republican Guard. The divisional commander, Major General Ronald Griffiths, radioed his deputy, who was riding with the armored spearhead. "I understand we are engaging the Medina Division?" he said, referring to one of the crack Iraqi Guard divisions. "Negative, sir," came the reply. "We are destroying the Medina Division."
Great proof that despite their quantity, the Soviet tanks that NATO planners feared above all else could be shredded by the M1 Abrams, Challenger 2, Leopard 2, LeClerc, Ariete, and Merkava with ease. Patton would be proud.

Top
super_wolverine_Man
Posted: Apr 9 2008, 07:21 PM


Head Admin


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,680
Member No.: 3
Joined: 9-January 08



QUOTE (Wingman @ Mar 27 2008, 12:32 PM)
Greeks take it. I have to keep this short.

Mongols lose, since most of the land is rocky and bad in general for cavalry. The Greek plalanx is arguably even more effective against enemies, especially cavalry, than the legion, but you sacrifice mobility. But that's okay, since they'll likely fight in narrow defiles and small passes like Thermopylae. They will fight a delaying action, inflicting terrible losses. And the Immortals, in real life, WEREN'T armored. That was the weakness of Persian infantry. Even the Immortals were armed with a short spear that couldn't compete with the pike of the plalanx, and all the armor they had was a shield made of wicker. That's why they got shredded by the heavily armored Greeks, with their bronze breastplates, helmets, and hoplons, or shields. The five months give the Greeks enough time to mass many forces in the north, and they drive back the Mongols, who simply can't operate well on rocky, uneven ground. When the Persians arrive, they get pawned much more easily than the Mongols were. You try charging into a wall, a literal THICKET, of bronze and iron tipped spears, three and four ranks deep, to reach the first man in the line. Back that up with skirmishers on the flanks and rear with slings, bows, and javalins, and this formation is hard to beat. Sorry, Ripper, but Greece takes this. You can't argue with Western military supremacy through the ages.

Mongols, took over asia, and whats in asia... GIGANTIC MOUTAINS laugh.gif ...ahhhhhh this is too much fun


--------------------

Points:

"The first shot rang out from somewhere and I heard a bullet wiz by my face. With my pump action shotgun ready, I shoot the first fool I see."

Grano's so gangster.
Top
super_wolverine_Man
Posted: Apr 9 2008, 07:23 PM


Head Admin


Group: Admin
Posts: 7,680
Member No.: 3
Joined: 9-January 08



QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Apr 9 2008, 07:21 PM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Mar 27 2008, 12:32 PM)
Greeks take it. I have to keep this short.

Mongols lose, since most of the land is rocky and bad in general for cavalry. The Greek plalanx is arguably even more effective against enemies, especially cavalry, than the legion, but you sacrifice mobility. But that's okay, since they'll likely fight in narrow defiles and small passes like Thermopylae. They will fight a delaying action, inflicting terrible losses. And the Immortals, in real life, WEREN'T armored. That was the weakness of Persian infantry. Even the Immortals were armed with a short spear that couldn't compete with the pike of the plalanx, and all the armor they had was a shield made of wicker. That's why they got shredded by the heavily armored Greeks, with their bronze breastplates, helmets, and hoplons, or shields. The five months give the Greeks enough time to mass many forces in the north, and they drive back the Mongols, who simply can't operate well on rocky, uneven ground. When the Persians arrive, they get pawned much more easily than the Mongols were. You try charging into a wall, a literal THICKET, of bronze and iron tipped spears, three and four ranks deep, to reach the first man in the line. Back that up with skirmishers on the flanks and rear with slings, bows, and javalins, and this formation is hard to beat. Sorry, Ripper, but Greece takes this. You can't argue with Western military supremacy through the ages.

Mongols, took over asia, and whats in asia... GIGANTIC MOUTAINS laugh.gif ...ahhhhhh this is too much fun

oh and mongols, did not fight like 16th century europe, you know they didn't fight in straight lines. Their strategy was pretty much. Chaos, Chaos, Chaos, Life long training, planning, brutality, and even more chaos


--------------------

Points:

"The first shot rang out from somewhere and I heard a bullet wiz by my face. With my pump action shotgun ready, I shoot the first fool I see."

Grano's so gangster.
Top
Wingman
Posted: Apr 9 2008, 08:15 PM


I'm better than you. That's all I know.


Group: Admin
Posts: 2,439
Member No.: 14
Joined: 11-January 08



QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Apr 9 2008, 03:23 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Apr 9 2008, 07:21 PM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Mar 27 2008, 12:32 PM)
Greeks take it. I have to keep this short.

Mongols lose, since most of the land is rocky and bad in general for cavalry. The Greek plalanx is arguably even more effective against enemies, especially cavalry, than the legion, but you sacrifice mobility. But that's okay, since they'll likely fight in narrow defiles and small passes like Thermopylae. They will fight a delaying action, inflicting terrible losses. And the Immortals, in real life, WEREN'T armored. That was the weakness of Persian infantry. Even the Immortals were armed with a short spear that couldn't compete with the pike of the plalanx, and all the armor they had was a shield made of wicker. That's why they got shredded by the heavily armored Greeks, with their bronze breastplates, helmets, and hoplons, or shields. The five months give the Greeks enough time to mass many forces in the north, and they drive back the Mongols, who simply can't operate well on rocky, uneven ground. When the Persians arrive, they get pawned much more easily than the Mongols were. You try charging into a wall, a literal THICKET, of bronze and iron tipped spears, three and four ranks deep, to reach the first man in the line. Back that up with skirmishers on the flanks and rear with slings, bows, and javalins, and this formation is hard to beat. Sorry, Ripper, but Greece takes this. You can't argue with Western military supremacy through the ages.

Mongols, took over asia, and whats in asia... GIGANTIC MOUTAINS laugh.gif ...ahhhhhh this is too much fun

oh and mongols, did not fight like 16th century europe, you know they didn't fight in straight lines. Their strategy was pretty much. Chaos, Chaos, Chaos, Life long training, planning, brutality, and even more chaos

The two main mountain ranges the Mongols had to deal with were the Himalayas, the Urals, and the Hindu Kush ranges. They went around all three. Most of Asia (check out a topographical map) is primarily flat, open steppe, from Russia down into China and the Middle East. And with the openness of Asia, they could simply fight AROUND a natural obstacle to get to the enemies behind it. Plus, most of the Asian and Eastern European enemies they fought were also cavalry, but weak in many places where the Mongols were rock hard strong.

Now, the only way into Greece, short of a naval invasion (the Mongols had no navy for most of their existance), is through the northern areas of the Baltic Peninsula. They would have to ride around the Black Sea and attack from the north. The Greek fighters are entirely different from most of the enemies the Mongols are used to fighting. They will proceed to bottle up all the narrow paths, passes, defiles, ravines, and valleys with the combined armies of all the city-states. THERE IS NO OPEN AREA IN NORTH GREECE. The are only extremely rugged mountains and a few rivers. If the Greeks keep them confined to narrow gaps, they will negate the maneuverability and speed that are the keystones of the Mongols. Don't get me wrong: I love the Mongols, and they are in my top five favorite armies of all time, behind the US, Greece, and maybe Rome, but I seriously doubt that they could punch through those mountains.


--------------------
"Never in the course of human history has so much been owed by so many to so few."- Winston Churchill, commenting on the heroic struggles of the RAF against the German Luftwaffe.

----
I don't smoke, I don't chew... and I don't date girls who do.

----

War produces classic remarks by military commanders; on February 26, 1991, the US 1st Armored Division, the famous Big Red One, encountered the allegedly elite Iraqi Republican Guard. The divisional commander, Major General Ronald Griffiths, radioed his deputy, who was riding with the armored spearhead. "I understand we are engaging the Medina Division?" he said, referring to one of the crack Iraqi Guard divisions. "Negative, sir," came the reply. "We are destroying the Medina Division."
Great proof that despite their quantity, the Soviet tanks that NATO planners feared above all else could be shredded by the M1 Abrams, Challenger 2, Leopard 2, LeClerc, Ariete, and Merkava with ease. Patton would be proud.

Top
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