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Title: Supreme Court ruling


Wingman - June 26, 2008 06:45 PM (GMT)
This is an awesome ruling, guys. Today, the United States Supreme Court ruled, for the first time ever on this issus, that US citizens have the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense and hunting purposes, under the Second Amendment. I don't know all the nuts and bolts of the issue yet, and I'll try to find Justice Scalia's majority rule argument for the ruling later and post it. But I want people's opinion on this. It is a landmark case for the US. The judges finally, FINALLY made a definitive ruling by interpreting the Constitution correctly, where it clearly states that this is a right for all citizens, and cannot be infringed on by the federal government. :)

The Ripper - June 26, 2008 08:41 PM (GMT)
WOO! High five Wingman!

Wingman - June 26, 2008 08:51 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (The Ripper @ Jun 26 2008, 04:41 PM)
WOO! High five Wingman!

Thanks, man. So you agree with the ruling, I assume?

Bassetman - June 26, 2008 09:18 PM (GMT)
Ignore this post. :P

Guardian Of Nesh - June 26, 2008 09:19 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 26 2008, 08:51 PM)
QUOTE (The Ripper @ Jun 26 2008, 04:41 PM)
WOO!  High five Wingman!

Thanks, man. So you agree with the ruling, I assume?

This is good becuse now we the people can fight invasions with Shotguns and knives.

Bassetman - June 26, 2008 09:20 PM (GMT)
Dammit...

Wingman - June 26, 2008 09:30 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Bassetman @ Jun 26 2008, 05:20 PM)
Dammit...

What?

Wingman - June 26, 2008 09:36 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Guardian Of Nesh @ Jun 26 2008, 05:19 PM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 26 2008, 08:51 PM)
QUOTE (The Ripper @ Jun 26 2008, 04:41 PM)
WOO!  High five Wingman!

Thanks, man. So you agree with the ruling, I assume?

This is good becuse now we the people can fight invasions with Shotguns and knives.

Knives are legal, and in the vast majority of the country, long guns and handguns are legal. But in most big cities (the first places to embrace liberal ideas), they ban the buying, selling, and owning of handguns to try to curb murder rates. What it really does is take the power to defend themselves away from the vast majority of responsible owners, and when they get robbed or their home is invaded by a guy with an illegal gun, they are defenseless. That's why I also think students on campuses should be able to carry. Massacres like the one at VT wouldn't have to happen if someone had a weapon to fight back with.

The other issue is that ultimately, in the Constitution and the Declaration, it says that we the people have the right, and duty, to protect our liberties and rights as individuals, and just like the colonists did against Britain (not insulting you, hamboy, just stating a point), we SHOULD have the right and ability to ensure our rights aren't violated. It probably won't ever happen, but a good example is this. When conquering armies move into a newly won area, one of the first thing the army does is usually confiscate all weapons owned by the conquered citizens. This makes it easier to rule, because the citizens, the ultimate line of defense, have no way to defend themselves from whatever the hell the new guys want to do. In the same way, if the government takes our weapons away, we are at their mercy. And if anyone with evil motives ever got in power, he would be more able to enforce his will on an unarmed population.

It's the American way. No other nation on earth, to my knowledge, gives you the same freedom.

hamboy - June 26, 2008 10:14 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 26 2008, 09:36 PM)
and just like the colonists did against Britain (not insulting you, hamboy, just stating a point), we SHOULD have the right and ability to ensure our rights aren't violated.

Hey, it's a fair point, and a real event in history, I'm not offended. George Washington was a brilliant general.

Anyway, I tend to agree you should have guns legal, as long as you don't get any crazy military weapons like those automatic shotguns. If someone wants to go on a shooting murder spree, they are going to get a gun weather it's legal or not, as proven by rising gun crimes in my country despite the tougher and tougher gun laws we have.

Wingman - June 27, 2008 01:49 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (hamboy @ Jun 26 2008, 06:14 PM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 26 2008, 09:36 PM)
and just like the colonists did against Britain (not insulting you, hamboy, just stating a point), we SHOULD have the right and ability to ensure our rights aren't violated.

Hey, it's a fair point, and a real event in history, I'm not offended. George Washington was a brilliant general.

Anyway, I tend to agree you should have guns legal, as long as you don't get any crazy military weapons like those automatic shotguns. If someone wants to go on a shooting murder spree, they are going to get a gun weather it's legal or not, as proven by rising gun crimes in my country despite the tougher and tougher gun laws we have.

Well, there are those who believe that the citizens should have access to whatever is necessary to prevent government to becoming too "Big Brother" and taking away their freedoms, but I'm not entirely established on that subject. I am, however, relieved that you think that way about your own laws. Didn't some guy go on a spree in the 80's, and that led to Parliament banning all weapons? They've also done it in Japan, Australia, and New Zealand, and rising gun violence is the result. It goes with my favorite slogan: "Better to have it, and not need it, then need it, and not have it." As good as they are, police and law enforcement can't respond to every crime in time to stop every crime. It's up to us to prevent the rest.

Plus, here, if you're nice, give the government all your info, and live in a remote, "hick" state, you can get a Weapons Collector permit and collect full auto weapons, although I think they're limited to those made before 1985. That's what I'm going to get when I turn 21, if possible.

The Ripper - June 27, 2008 02:14 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 26 2008, 01:51 PM)
QUOTE (The Ripper @ Jun 26 2008, 04:41 PM)
WOO!  High five Wingman!

Thanks, man. So you agree with the ruling, I assume?

As a matter of fact, I do.

Sorry to take long to respond.

Wingman - June 27, 2008 02:18 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (The Ripper @ Jun 26 2008, 10:14 PM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 26 2008, 01:51 PM)
QUOTE (The Ripper @ Jun 26 2008, 04:41 PM)
WOO!  High five Wingman!

Thanks, man. So you agree with the ruling, I assume?

As a matter of fact, I do.

Sorry to take long to respond.

No problem. I'm really glad I haven't heard any dissenting opinions yet.

Leo Sanders - June 28, 2008 12:29 AM (GMT)
I agree as well but the people arguing did make some good points.

Wingman - June 28, 2008 02:09 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Leo Sanders @ Jun 27 2008, 08:29 PM)
I agree as well but the people arguing did make some good points.

I respectfully disagree. They didn't have good points; the twist the Constitution to serve their own personal agendas. They want government to run as much of our lives as possible. Another name for that is SOCIALISM. And you take away guns, you take away one of our most cherished freedoms.

Leo Sanders - June 28, 2008 02:43 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 28 2008, 02:09 AM)
QUOTE (Leo Sanders @ Jun 27 2008, 08:29 PM)
I agree as well but the people arguing did make some good points.

I respectfully disagree. They didn't have good points; the twist the Constitution to serve their own personal agendas. They want government to run as much of our lives as possible. Another name for that is SOCIALISM. And you take away guns, you take away one of our most cherished freedoms.

Yea I agree with ya thier I thought about that after I posted this.

Bassetman - June 28, 2008 05:17 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 28 2008, 02:09 AM)
QUOTE (Leo Sanders @ Jun 27 2008, 08:29 PM)
I agree as well but the people arguing did make some good points.

I respectfully disagree. They didn't have good points; the twist the Constitution to serve their own personal agendas. They want government to run as much of our lives as possible. Another name for that is SOCIALISM. And you take away guns, you take away one of our most cherished freedoms.

Oh my god.

I can't even comment on that.

I'm goin' to bed.

Wingman - June 28, 2008 06:16 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Bassetman @ Jun 28 2008, 01:17 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 28 2008, 02:09 AM)
QUOTE (Leo Sanders @ Jun 27 2008, 08:29 PM)
I agree as well but the people arguing did make some good points.

I respectfully disagree. They didn't have good points; the twist the Constitution to serve their own personal agendas. They want government to run as much of our lives as possible. Another name for that is SOCIALISM. And you take away guns, you take away one of our most cherished freedoms.

Oh my god.

I can't even comment on that.

I'm goin' to bed.

It's okey, dude. Don't get enfuriated just because you have no meaningful argument against it.

*makes "bring it" motion from Matrix*

Bassetman - June 28, 2008 02:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 28 2008, 06:16 AM)
QUOTE (Bassetman @ Jun 28 2008, 01:17 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 28 2008, 02:09 AM)
QUOTE (Leo Sanders @ Jun 27 2008, 08:29 PM)
I agree as well but the people arguing did make some good points.

I respectfully disagree. They didn't have good points; the twist the Constitution to serve their own personal agendas. They want government to run as much of our lives as possible. Another name for that is SOCIALISM. And you take away guns, you take away one of our most cherished freedoms.

Oh my god.

I can't even comment on that.

I'm goin' to bed.

It's okey, dude. Don't get enfuriated just because you have no meaningful argument against it.

*makes "bring it" motion from Matrix*

I thought we agreed on no argueing?

super_wolverine_Man - June 28, 2008 03:32 PM (GMT)
what's up y'all don't i get a say in this

according to Constutional amendment II it states:

"A Well regulated militia, being necessary to the secuirity of a free state, the right of the perople to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

does anyone know why true american's hold this amendment so dearly? Because of protection? perhaps but let's look at it from a historical stand point.

Major General Thomas Gage, had landed over 3000 troops in boston, a group of these soldiers under Colonel? Francis Smith moved to take the arms and ammunitions of the people, thus taking away any chance in protecting themselves, you can't always rely on the goverment to protect you :rolleyes: anyways, this erupted into battle at lexington and concord on april 19,1775, thus starting the Revolutionary War.

also remember it's not guns who kill people it's people who kill people, if someone murders someone it is the fault of the individual, and he should be punished accordingly. If you take away the weapons of the people how will they be able to protect themselves.

one final point in the Declaration of Independence, It states, "That whenever any form of goverment becomes desructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it,"

i bring this up because when a goverment becomes corrupt, it is the right of the people to change or destroy it, how can we do that if, the goverment has taken our weapons.

Wingman - June 29, 2008 10:31 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Bassetman @ Jun 28 2008, 10:55 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 28 2008, 06:16 AM)
QUOTE (Bassetman @ Jun 28 2008, 01:17 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 28 2008, 02:09 AM)
QUOTE (Leo Sanders @ Jun 27 2008, 08:29 PM)
I agree as well but the people arguing did make some good points.

I respectfully disagree. They didn't have good points; the twist the Constitution to serve their own personal agendas. They want government to run as much of our lives as possible. Another name for that is SOCIALISM. And you take away guns, you take away one of our most cherished freedoms.

Oh my god.

I can't even comment on that.

I'm goin' to bed.

It's okey, dude. Don't get enfuriated just because you have no meaningful argument against it.

*makes "bring it" motion from Matrix*

I thought we agreed on no argueing?

Well, that was on the gay thing. I honestly wouldn't mind hearing what you have to say on this. I can keep it civil. I was a bit over the top with that last post. Please, go ahead.

Wingman - June 29, 2008 10:34 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 28 2008, 11:32 AM)
what's up y'all don't i get a say in this

according to Constutional amendment II it states:

"A Well regulated militia, being necessary to the secuirity of a free state, the right of the perople to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

does anyone know why true american's hold this amendment so dearly? Because of protection? perhaps but let's look at it from a historical stand point.

Major General Thomas Gage, had landed over 3000 troops in boston, a group of these soldiers under Colonel? Francis Smith moved to take the arms and ammunitions of the people, thus taking away any chance in protecting themselves, you can't always rely on the goverment to protect you :rolleyes: anyways, this erupted into battle at lexington and concord on april 19,1775, thus starting the Revolutionary War.

also remember it's not guns who kill people it's people who kill people, if someone murders someone it is the fault of the individual, and he should be punished accordingly. If you take away the weapons of the people how will they be able to protect themselves.

one final point in the Declaration of Independence, It states, "That whenever any form of goverment becomes desructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it,"

i bring this up because when a goverment becomes corrupt, it is the right of the people to change or destroy it, how can we do that if, the goverment has taken our weapons.

Oh. My. Gosh.

You can't say it better than the way you just did. Everthing there is exactly what I've tried to tell people at my local meeting place. It IS the right of the people to "make safeguards" for future generations. Now, it is pretty difficult in America to have a military coup or something, but it still applies. And you're right. Gage trying to take away our arms was one of the reasons the War started.

super_wolverine_Man - June 30, 2008 02:29 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 29 2008, 10:34 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 28 2008, 11:32 AM)
what's up y'all don't i get a say in this

according to Constutional amendment II it states:

"A Well regulated militia, being necessary to the secuirity of a free state, the right of the perople to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

does anyone know why true american's hold this amendment so dearly? Because of protection? perhaps but let's look at it from a historical stand point.

Major General Thomas Gage, had landed over 3000 troops in boston, a group of these soldiers under Colonel? Francis Smith moved to take the arms and ammunitions of the people, thus taking away any chance in protecting themselves, you can't always rely on the goverment to protect you  :rolleyes:  anyways, this erupted into battle at lexington and concord on april 19,1775, thus starting the Revolutionary War.

also remember it's not guns who kill people it's people who kill people, if someone murders someone it is the fault of the individual, and he should be punished accordingly. If you take away the weapons of the people how will they be able to protect themselves.

one final point in the Declaration of Independence, It states, "That whenever any form of goverment becomes desructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it,"

i bring this up because when a goverment becomes corrupt, it is the right of the people to change or destroy it, how can we do that if, the goverment has taken our weapons.

Oh. My. Gosh.

You can't say it better than the way you just did. Everthing there is exactly what I've tried to tell people at my local meeting place. It IS the right of the people to "make safeguards" for future generations. Now, it is pretty difficult in America to have a military coup or something, but it still applies. And you're right. Gage trying to take away our arms was one of the reasons the War started.

you take away our arms then we get mad! :angry:

super_wolverine_Man - June 30, 2008 02:31 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 30 2008, 02:29 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 29 2008, 10:34 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 28 2008, 11:32 AM)
what's up y'all don't i get a say in this

according to Constutional amendment II it states:

"A Well regulated militia, being necessary to the secuirity of a free state, the right of the perople to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

does anyone know why true american's hold this amendment so dearly? Because of protection? perhaps but let's look at it from a historical stand point.

Major General Thomas Gage, had landed over 3000 troops in boston, a group of these soldiers under Colonel? Francis Smith moved to take the arms and ammunitions of the people, thus taking away any chance in protecting themselves, you can't always rely on the goverment to protect you  :rolleyes:  anyways, this erupted into battle at lexington and concord on april 19,1775, thus starting the Revolutionary War.

also remember it's not guns who kill people it's people who kill people, if someone murders someone it is the fault of the individual, and he should be punished accordingly. If you take away the weapons of the people how will they be able to protect themselves.

one final point in the Declaration of Independence, It states, "That whenever any form of goverment becomes desructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it,"

i bring this up because when a goverment becomes corrupt, it is the right of the people to change or destroy it, how can we do that if, the goverment has taken our weapons.

Oh. My. Gosh.

You can't say it better than the way you just did. Everthing there is exactly what I've tried to tell people at my local meeting place. It IS the right of the people to "make safeguards" for future generations. Now, it is pretty difficult in America to have a military coup or something, but it still applies. And you're right. Gage trying to take away our arms was one of the reasons the War started.

you take away our arms then we get mad! :angry:

oh by the way i have a full sized replica of the Declaration of Independence, framed and hanging on my wall, i also have the constitution and have read it many times

Wingman - June 30, 2008 02:11 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 29 2008, 10:31 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 30 2008, 02:29 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 29 2008, 10:34 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 28 2008, 11:32 AM)
what's up y'all don't i get a say in this

according to Constutional amendment II it states:

"A Well regulated militia, being necessary to the secuirity of a free state, the right of the perople to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

does anyone know why true american's hold this amendment so dearly? Because of protection? perhaps but let's look at it from a historical stand point.

Major General Thomas Gage, had landed over 3000 troops in boston, a group of these soldiers under Colonel? Francis Smith moved to take the arms and ammunitions of the people, thus taking away any chance in protecting themselves, you can't always rely on the goverment to protect you  :rolleyes:  anyways, this erupted into battle at lexington and concord on april 19,1775, thus starting the Revolutionary War.

also remember it's not guns who kill people it's people who kill people, if someone murders someone it is the fault of the individual, and he should be punished accordingly. If you take away the weapons of the people how will they be able to protect themselves.

one final point in the Declaration of Independence, It states, "That whenever any form of goverment becomes desructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it,"

i bring this up because when a goverment becomes corrupt, it is the right of the people to change or destroy it, how can we do that if, the goverment has taken our weapons.

Oh. My. Gosh.

You can't say it better than the way you just did. Everthing there is exactly what I've tried to tell people at my local meeting place. It IS the right of the people to "make safeguards" for future generations. Now, it is pretty difficult in America to have a military coup or something, but it still applies. And you're right. Gage trying to take away our arms was one of the reasons the War started.

you take away our arms then we get mad! :angry:

oh by the way i have a full sized replica of the Declaration of Independence, framed and hanging on my wall, i also have the constitution and have read it many times

Great, man. "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Looks like you and I aren't going to make many mistakes. :o

super_wolverine_Man - June 30, 2008 03:22 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 30 2008, 02:11 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 29 2008, 10:31 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 30 2008, 02:29 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 29 2008, 10:34 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 28 2008, 11:32 AM)
what's up y'all don't i get a say in this

according to Constutional amendment II it states:

"A Well regulated militia, being necessary to the secuirity of a free state, the right of the perople to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

does anyone know why true american's hold this amendment so dearly? Because of protection? perhaps but let's look at it from a historical stand point.

Major General Thomas Gage, had landed over 3000 troops in boston, a group of these soldiers under Colonel? Francis Smith moved to take the arms and ammunitions of the people, thus taking away any chance in protecting themselves, you can't always rely on the goverment to protect you  :rolleyes:  anyways, this erupted into battle at lexington and concord on april 19,1775, thus starting the Revolutionary War.

also remember it's not guns who kill people it's people who kill people, if someone murders someone it is the fault of the individual, and he should be punished accordingly. If you take away the weapons of the people how will they be able to protect themselves.

one final point in the Declaration of Independence, It states, "That whenever any form of goverment becomes desructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it,"

i bring this up because when a goverment becomes corrupt, it is the right of the people to change or destroy it, how can we do that if, the goverment has taken our weapons.

Oh. My. Gosh.

You can't say it better than the way you just did. Everthing there is exactly what I've tried to tell people at my local meeting place. It IS the right of the people to "make safeguards" for future generations. Now, it is pretty difficult in America to have a military coup or something, but it still applies. And you're right. Gage trying to take away our arms was one of the reasons the War started.

you take away our arms then we get mad! :angry:

oh by the way i have a full sized replica of the Declaration of Independence, framed and hanging on my wall, i also have the constitution and have read it many times

Great, man. "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Looks like you and I aren't going to make many mistakes. :o

he he he eh... well.. i guess so :unsure:

Wingman - June 30, 2008 04:01 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 30 2008, 11:22 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 30 2008, 02:11 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 29 2008, 10:31 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 30 2008, 02:29 AM)
QUOTE (Wingman @ Jun 29 2008, 10:34 PM)
QUOTE (super_wolverine_Man @ Jun 28 2008, 11:32 AM)
what's up y'all don't i get a say in this

according to Constutional amendment II it states:

"A Well regulated militia, being necessary to the secuirity of a free state, the right of the perople to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

does anyone know why true american's hold this amendment so dearly? Because of protection? perhaps but let's look at it from a historical stand point.

Major General Thomas Gage, had landed over 3000 troops in boston, a group of these soldiers under Colonel? Francis Smith moved to take the arms and ammunitions of the people, thus taking away any chance in protecting themselves, you can't always rely on the goverment to protect you  :rolleyes:  anyways, this erupted into battle at lexington and concord on april 19,1775, thus starting the Revolutionary War.

also remember it's not guns who kill people it's people who kill people, if someone murders someone it is the fault of the individual, and he should be punished accordingly. If you take away the weapons of the people how will they be able to protect themselves.

one final point in the Declaration of Independence, It states, "That whenever any form of goverment becomes desructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it,"

i bring this up because when a goverment becomes corrupt, it is the right of the people to change or destroy it, how can we do that if, the goverment has taken our weapons.

Oh. My. Gosh.

You can't say it better than the way you just did. Everthing there is exactly what I've tried to tell people at my local meeting place. It IS the right of the people to "make safeguards" for future generations. Now, it is pretty difficult in America to have a military coup or something, but it still applies. And you're right. Gage trying to take away our arms was one of the reasons the War started.

you take away our arms then we get mad! :angry:

oh by the way i have a full sized replica of the Declaration of Independence, framed and hanging on my wall, i also have the constitution and have read it many times

Great, man. "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Looks like you and I aren't going to make many mistakes. :o

he he he eh... well.. i guess so :unsure:

Well, at least we're less likely too.




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