GF Vs Nin, Round 3, Intelligent Debate '08

Topic: Christmas is no longer a religious holiday
For: GF
Against: Nin

GF leads. Judges: Maraj, Inui, Dez384

Hmm. The meaning of Christmas. The real meaning is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, the messiah of the Christian people. Unfortunately, with all of the hustle and bustle of this day and time, people seem to forget this crucial part of the holiday.

When you think of the word, "Christmas," many things may come to mind. Presents, Santa, Winter, maybe even food. Rarely though, will religion be the first thing you think of of.

It all started with the reenactment of the gifts given by the three wise men on the day of Jesus's birth. Presents, or gifts, are given between family, friends, or even formal acquaintances. Kid's are most family with this practice of the holiday. But how can you blame them? They receive a lot of toys for what seems to them to be no reason. Sure, it's Christmas, and they may know the religious significance behind it, but they won't be old enough to make the connection between the wise men and what people do today.

Not to mention the mysterious, and magical Saint Nickolas, or Santa Claus. To kids, someone they don't even know comes and gives them presents for being good little boys and girls. Who wouldn't be excited? But what does he have to do with religion? An old fat guy gives kids toys. Sounds like a pedophile to me.

I don't wanna type anymore.

I beg to differ.

Christmas is the second-most important holiday of the Christian faith. (y halo Easter) In fact, many people view Christmas as being more important than Easter simply because Christ could not have been resurrected if he had never even been born. So Christmas is a strong religious holiday.

Oh really?

Let’s dissect the word Christmas. What do you see? “Christ” and “mass”, proving that Christmas is a religious day, a day to celebrate the birth of our savior, Jesus Christ.

Even just saying the word Christmas brings Jesus to mind, because you’re saying his name.

Kids will be kids, but as the two of us well know, their parents know the meaning of the holiday, and will make sure to make an appearance at Mass that day to pay respects to Jesus.

Yes, they get tons of toys and may not realize why, but they also will be going to Mass, and they know full well why that is happening.

And if you ask pretty much any kid why we celebrate Christmas, they’ll tell you, “Because it’s Jesus’s birthday.”

Uh, no.

For starters, pretty much any normal kid won’t even know what a pedophile is, so they don’t care about that. And none of the Christmas carols mention anything about Santa coming upstairs and raping the little girls and boys although he probably does.

Secondly, look at the name. Santa Claus. Now say it really fast a couple of times, and what do you hear? Saint Nicholas, the patron saint of children. (And according to Wikipedia, he’s also the patron saint of sailors, fishermen, the falsely accused, pawnbrokers, prostitutes, repentant thieves, and many cities.)

There’s how Santa ties into the whole religious theme. (Also, I highly doubt that the patron saint of children is a pedophile)

Well that’s unfortunate. I’ll make this quick then, so you don’t have to strain your poor, tired fingers.

-Christmas is a religious holiday of huge importance to Christians, who all know what the holiday truly means.
-Even the kids, who get swamped with new toys, know that it’s because they’re celebrating the birth of Christ.
-Santa Claus, or rather, Saint Nicholas, is a religious figure, not a pedophile.
-Christmas is still a religious holiday.

Lol that's not true at all. Easter shows the miracle of Jesus's resurrection, which is proof to Christian people that He is their God and savior. Who the hell thinks that Christmas is more important? (I want to see facts)

Well, for one thing, the words "Christ" and "mass" do nothing to show that the day is meant to celebrate the birth and Jesus.

Secondly, when the word was created (which I'd have to believe was quite a long time ago) Christmas was a very religious holiday. Unfortunately for you, we're debating that Christmas is no longer a religious holiday.

Damn, really? Because that would be totally appropriate for the holiday season.

I said it like over a hundred times fast, but I didn't hear that.

Wtf?

Seeing as Wikipedia is the most reliable guide you can find on the internet, I'm going to go and have to believe that that's true. But what the hell do those have to do with Christmas being a religious holiday? Seems like he's just a saint for many things, and he was incorporated somehow into Christmas.

Sure, it is a religious holiday. And kids and adults alike know the true meaning behind the holiday. But to them, the kids especially, what do you think is most important? The fact that they're celebrating the birth of their savior, or the gifts they give and receive between their friends and family.

Lol, although he is not a pedophile, he is not a religious figure either. Santa Claus is primarily associated with presents, cookies, and his sleigh.

In some aspects, yes.

Most families manage to make it to mass on for Christmas, when they haven't been to a single other one since Easter. However, a lot of families tend to go on Saturday night instead of Sunday morning. Do you know why this is? They don't want to interrupt the very important process of exchanging gifts on Christmas morning, the actual day of Jesus's birth.



This post has been edited by gamefreak on Feb 19 2008, 01:35 AM

If what you said is true (and if you admit that it isn’t, you pretty much cede the debate) then the children think that Christmas is more important than Easter.

That aside, Easter’s importance changes nothing; Christmas is an incredibly important religious holiday.

Um, what?

It’s a mass celebrating the birth of Christ, hence “Christ-Mass”. I’m pretty darn sure that that shows that it’s a day for celebrating Jesus.

So time passing means that the meaning of Christmas is gone?

Okay, the US Constitution is over 200 years old. It clearly must be invalid now, so let’s give up all our freedoms.

Stonehenge is centuries old; lots of time has passed, so we should probably knock it down.

So yeah, that logic doesn’t apply.

I know, right?!

Okay captain literal.

He’s a saint; a religious figure. His incorporation into the holiday shows that Christmas carries a religious meaning… as if the whole Christ-Mass thing wasn’t enough.

As long as they know what they are celebrating, the meaning is there. Whichever part of the holiday they prefer means nothing in this debate, since they’re celebrating all of Christmas regardless, including the religious aspect.

Because Saints aren’t religious figures, right?

Might as well go and canonize me for the hell of it; what does it even mean now?

But in all seriousness, Saint Nicholas’s canon status makes him a religious figure, albeit one that likes cookies.

Actually, most people go to Christmas Eve mass just to avoid the huge crowds that go to the day masses, which actually doubly proves my point: people that go on the eve still do so to worship Christ, and the fact that so many people go to mass during Christmas day proves that Christmas is still a religious holiday.

What? I was saying that Easter is a more significant religious holiday than Easter, I never said anything about the children. I'd hope that the children realize that Easter is more important religion wise .

But children do enjoy Christmas more than Easter because of the gifts they receive.

Well, there are actually many masses devoted to Christ. What makes this one signify his birthday?

We're not talking about our freedoms and rocks. We're talking about people's opinions and values. And people's opinion's and values do change over time. What we as a people considered important a long time ago aren't necessarily important today. Yes, we still want our constitutional rights. But the Christian community along with all religion has become increasingly less important over the years.

Look at the churches. It used to be required for everyone to attend Sunday mass each and every week. Now people are lucky if they get there once a month.

Christmas isn't concentrated on mainly Jesus's birth anymore. It's mainly about the gifts.

Totally.

Sure, he's a saint. But what do most of the children call him? Not St. Nicolas. They call him Santa Claus, completely disregarding his religious aspect.

Whichever part of the holiday they prefer means everything in this debate. If people care more about the material goods instead of the spiritual meaning behind them, then Christmas is in fact, no longer a religious holiday.

*Ends on that*