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The Den Signal!

Pages: (3) 1 [2] 3  ( Go to first unread post )

 Haar >>>>
Sety
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 02:21 PM


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QUOTE (Solide @ Nov 17 2007, 12:14 PM)
QUOTE (Sety @ Nov 17 2007, 02:08 PM)
QUOTE
So far, for Top Tier units, I have Laura

Are you on crack? Laura's horrible.

Er? No, actually, she isn't. For a massive boon, she's your only healer in Part One, whereas Rhys and Mist share the early healing role in Part Three (and the value of healing is less since Ike's Mercenaries have a lot more durability).

Then she manages to compete with Mist and Rhys once she rejoins. Those two things combined make her Top Tier.

She has a total of 14 chapters to get levels before the game ends. After her first 8, she leaves for 11. If she isn't promoted by the time you get Mist and Rhys, she may as well be benched.


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Solide
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 02:24 PM


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QUOTE (Sety @ Nov 17 2007, 02:21 PM)
QUOTE (Solide @ Nov 17 2007, 12:14 PM)
QUOTE (Sety @ Nov 17 2007, 02:08 PM)
QUOTE
So far, for Top Tier units, I have Laura

Are you on crack? Laura's horrible.

Er? No, actually, she isn't. For a massive boon, she's your only healer in Part One, whereas Rhys and Mist share the early healing role in Part Three (and the value of healing is less since Ike's Mercenaries have a lot more durability).

Then she manages to compete with Mist and Rhys once she rejoins. Those two things combined make her Top Tier.

She has a total of 14 chapters to get levels before the game ends. After her first 8, she leaves for 11. If she isn't promoted by the time you get Mist and Rhys, she may as well be benched.

Early on, she doesn't share EXP with combat units, thereby raising your team's level (separate EXP pool = w1n). Therefore she gets a few levels of BEXP for what she does in Part One.

So yeah, she's definitely promoted by then.

Jaffar
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 02:29 PM


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QUOTE (Solide @ Nov 17 2007, 02:16 PM)
QUOTE (Jaffar @ Nov 17 2007, 02:15 PM)
QUOTE (Solide @ Nov 17 2007, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE (Sety @ Nov 17 2007, 02:08 PM)
QUOTE
So far, for Top Tier units, I have Laura

Are you on crack? Laura's horrible.

Er? No, actually, she isn't. For a massive boon, she's your only healer in Part One, whereas Rhys and Mist share the early healing role in Part Three (and the value of healing is less since Ike's Mercenaries have a lot more durability).

Then she manages to compete with Mist and Rhys once she rejoins. Those two things combined make her Top Tier.

Yeah, she is really bad. I just completely quit using her around the level that you could. She was indeed useful at sometimes, but no where near top tier.


Personal experience means nothing at all.

I'm curious, what level was your Laura?

When I scraped her, level 11 I believe. This was like chapter 7 or something.

I hate when people say personal expeirance doesn't matter, because well it does. My laura sucks. And there is nothing that can change that fact.
Solide
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 02:33 PM


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QUOTE
When I scraped her, level 11 I believe. This was like chapter 7 or something.


Chapter 7? You didn't use a healer for 7, 8 or 10? ...

QUOTE
I hate when people say personal expeirance doesn't matter, because well it does. My laura sucks. And there is nothing that can change that fact.


Your Laura sucks. That doesn't mean that the average Laura is going to suck. That's why personal experience means nothing. When we say "Laura, the unit" we don't mean one specific person's Laura, we mean the average Laura.

You said Laura isn't Top Tier based on your personal experience with her; what if someone had a Laura that got perfect level ups every time? It's certainly plausible. So each person should make an individual tier list?

Extreme cases and non-average cases do occur, but there are simply too many of them to pick one, not to mention that they are inaccurate measurements due to randomness.

This post has been edited by Solide on Nov 17 2007, 02:40 PM
General_Bonzai
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 03:19 PM


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QUOTE (Solide @ Nov 17 2007, 02:02 PM)
Indeed, Tauroneo is very amazing. He's in two chapters of Part One, by the way, since Chapter 6 is two-part. And Resolve very much pwns (yes, before you say it, inherent skills do matter in this game, since they don't take up Capacity--you can remove them, but then when you readd them to a different unit, they take up Capacity). Top Tier? No. Good? Yes.

Haar, however, is possibly the best unit in the game. Dragonmaster is definitely the best class. Flying (which matters since there is a lot of terrain in this game), no weakness to Bows like their Pegasi/flying Laguz counterparts, and high caps (higher Def cap than General, even).

They balanced out Move Again in this game for horse units, since those units can't climb up vertical inclines at all (not even with low Move). That impedes their Movement a lot--in fact, entirely in some chapters. It's better to not field them sometimes. However, they didn't balance out Dragonmaster at all, and especially not Haar.

So far, for Top Tier units, I have Haar, Laura, and possibly Shinon. Can't decide on anyone else.

I dunno, I just don't think that Tauroneo can be above average when he's only in about five or so chapters. Also, he's fairly lousy when he comes back in 3-11, not doubling much of anything and taking damage even from the unpromoted soldiers on that level.

I wouldn't say Laura is god tier, really. Since Vulneraries heal 20 HP and have 8 uses now, you can easily do Part 1 without her. She's also a second unit (first being Micaiah) who you have to completely shield, as she can be OHKO'd and doubled by almost everything. Having to do that to your Lord is bad enough. Not to mention she's gonna be pretty underleveled when she comes back in Part 3.


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Sety
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 03:55 PM


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You need to read Bosox's rant on Vulneraries > Healers, banzai 16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


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Hunter-Ghor
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 05:17 PM


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FE10 Vulneraries have ~1067% the value of Vulneraries in previous games; they're actually very useful here. (That's a serious statistic, BTW.)

Also, they don't always take up your unit's turn, because Michiah can transfer that amount of health through Sacrifice.

There's really no need to use Laura, except on Hard Mode when you basically need to use everyone anyway.


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QUOTE (71089)
Forum Attack #401: FES adopted a new skin.
Solide
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 05:35 PM


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QUOTE
Also, they don't always take up your unit's turn, because Michiah can transfer that amount of health through Sacrifice.


What does Sacrifice have to do with Vulneraries?

Anyway, using a Vulnerary means you don't attack with that unit. It's as simple as that. Your entire army is not going to be consuming Vulneraries every time they get hurt. If they are, it slows you down; it's a much better idea to be using a healer.

It's almost like having a Dancer in that sense. Not using Laura means one of your units wastes a turn on using a Vulnerary instead of attacking. Using Laura means that that unit doesn't waste anything at all.

QUOTE
There's really no need to use Laura, except on Hard Mode when you basically need to use everyone anyway


No one ever said it was a "need" at all; you don't need to use anyone at all. It's just extremely useful.

QUOTE
Not to mention she's gonna be pretty underleveled when she comes back in Part 3.


Being underlevelled has no bearing on anything, except that you gain levels faster. She'll still be beating Mist in offense and durability. Offense because she has higher Mag at 20/5 than Mist at 20/18 has Str. And then she attacks Res, which is helpful against more units than it's not helpful against.

As for durability, attacking always at 1-2 Range makes her much more durable since she doesn't elicit counters, whereas Mist does. Mist's affinity can probably make this area hazy, though.

Rhys beats her for a while, but then her growths kick in as she catches up in level and she wins near the end.

This post has been edited by Solide on Nov 17 2007, 05:39 PM
Hunter-Ghor
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 05:39 PM


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QUOTE
Anyway, using a Vulnerary means you don't attack with that unit. It's as simple as that. Your entire army is not going to be consuming Vulneraries every time they get hurt. If they are, it slows you down; it's a much better idea to be using a healer.

It's almost like having a Dancer in that sense. Not using Laura means one of your units wastes a turn on using a Vulnerary instead of attacking. Using Laura means that that unit doesn't waste anything at all.

The part of my post that you didn't understand countered that. <__<;

If you don't want to waste that unit's turn healing, have Michiah heal them instead, then use the Vulnerary on Michiah next turn instead. It's not as efficient as using Laura, but it's better than having to protect another unit that gets OHKOed by twigs.

This post has been edited by Hunter-Ghor on Nov 17 2007, 05:40 PM


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QUOTE (71089)
Forum Attack #401: FES adopted a new skin.
Solide
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 05:47 PM


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QUOTE
If you don't want to waste that unit's turn healing, have Michiah heal them instead, then use the Vulnerary on Michiah next turn instead. It's not as efficient as using Laura, but it's better than having another unit that gets OHKOed by twigs.


Except that now I wasted _two_ attacks rather than one.

It's not even as efficient as just straight out using a Vulnerary, let alone as efficient as using Laura.

And Laura only gets OHKOed initially. BEXP + a few levels gained naturally should put her into the 2HKO range for lots of things. 70% Spd growth makes doubling her rather difficult after the first few levels, as well. Unless you're talking about Hard Mode, but everyone is worse off there, so meh.

Plus, as a healer, she's pretty much constantly in the backlines. And then there's Shade from Ilyana. Ilyana wants to be attacking, so she won't even want Shade (and Ilyana's not very good either way, so using her is quite doubtful, but you may for a few chapters, as there are few better alternatives early on). Laura has no attacking to do, so she's the primary candidate for receiving Shade.

Also, if Vulneraries are good replacements for Laura, what about Mist and Rhys? Their values are decreased by a ton since Avoid actually works in Part Three, unlike in Part One. For the few attacks that you do take, Vulneraries should technically suffice.

And before you say it, yes, Mist and Rhys are just as bad in durability. Both get doubled by everything (Rhys even by Generals) when they join.

So you're suggesting that we should never use any healers.

Also, Vulneraries only heal 20 HP. What if I need more? Like for Volug? If Volug is at 10 HP, I need two Vulneraries to fully heal him. And yes, I know, you don't need to heal him to full; I'm aware of that. However, it's much more beneficial to do so.

This post has been edited by Solide on Nov 17 2007, 05:55 PM
SagelordtoaAxe/sagelord thing
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 06:44 PM


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In path of radince my god on there was rolf somehow don't I just get that any question.
Sety
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 06:46 PM


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...what?


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Diagon Dragnier
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 06:53 PM


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Laura is more durable than Micaiah, because she doesn't get doubled.

So I dunno what you're talking about Othin.

And Solide, Rhys is third tier and I haven't gotten Laura back. 18 was being generous.


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Solide
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 06:54 PM


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QUOTE
And Solide, Rhys is third tier and I haven't gotten Laura back. 18 was being generous.


He didn't breach 3rd tier for me by the time Laura arrived. Mist did when I used her, but that was because I BEXP'd her to death.
Diagon Dragnier
Posted: Nov 17 2007, 06:56 PM


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QUOTE (Solide @ Nov 17 2007, 03:54 PM)
QUOTE
And Solide, Rhys is third tier and I haven't gotten Laura back. 18 was being generous.


He didn't breach 3rd tier for me by the time Laura arrived. Mist did when I used her, but that was because I BEXP'd her to death.

The only unit at a lower level than him is Ike, because he can't promote yet.

Maybe I'm just better at leveling units than you. B|


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Aetharsioll Koios - Mage, Level 1
Formerly: Delita, Zihark, Diagon Dragnier, Firebane, Dragon Hellfire
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