So yeah I've been gone for the past year or so, and apparently the forum died while I was gone, with the RP before it, which isn't much of a surprise.

Aaaaanyways. I've been thinking about using FE systems for a tabletop RP I would have played with friends and was wondering if there were people still around this place that would like to help me set it up (apparently I missed two guests not ten minutes ago...); who knows, if it works out well enough, I just might try to reignite the forum RP; seems work motivates me to do things when I have free time, instead of just loafing 24/7.

So yeah, since the forum itself might not be the swiftest way of contacting me, *ahem*

"I await you in the chatroom."

I'll get started on cramming experience equations into my calculator for now, I guess.

Sounds good, I guess.

I MIGHT be interested... I am a calc afterall

Yeah, currently working on making a character sheet, so I'm downloading Adobe Acrobat (not the reader) to see if I can make heads or tails of it.

Also, I've come to the conclusion that players would only need a d100 (or 1d10 and 1d010) to play, though d20s are useful for growths and whatnot. Once I get my big bag 'o dice back I'lls ee if I have seven different-colored die. If I do, each stat will be color-coded accordingly and we can just roll 7d20 for growths.

Then. I'm reworking the class tree so that non-mounted units can't promote into mounted units an vice-versa. Basically, If the Recruit class was used, it couldn't promote into Cavalier, and Knights couldn't promote into Great Knights.

The Recruit class tree has been reworked as follows:
Recruit -> Soldier -> Halberdier
Recruit -> Soldier -> ???
Recruit -> Knight -> ???
Recruit -> Knight -> General

Note that the two ??? can be the same unit and they can be separate, too; since the Recruit doesn't exist, it doesn't matter.

Also, since unmounted units can't promote into mounted units, the Mercenary can't promote into a Ranger anymore. Me and Wakefield have agreed that Myrmidons promoting into Assassins is silly. Thus, if there was a trainee class for Myrmidons - let's dub it the Blade for now since it doesn't matter - its class tree would go something like this:
Blade -> Myrmidon -> Swordmaster
Blade -> Myrmidon -> ???
Blade -> Mercenary -> ???
Blade -> Mercenary -> Hero
Journeyman -> Fighter -> Hero
Journeyman -> Fighter -> Warrior
Journeyman -> Pirate -> Warrior*
Journeyman -> Pirate -> Berserker

*I personally don't think this is the most logical thing ever.
In fact, ideally, every tier 1 class (trainees are tier 0) should have two unique promotions. Thus!

Soldier -> Halberdier (Lance's equivallent of the Swordmaster and Berserker; gets +15% crit boost) or ?
Knight -> General or ?
Myrmidon -> Swordmaster or ?
Mercenary -> Hero² or ?
Fighter -> Hero² or Warrior
Pirate -> Berserker³ or ?
Brigand -> Berserker³ or ?
Thief -> Assassin or Rogue
Archer -> Sniper or Ranger? (breaks mounted promotion rule)
Cavalier -> Paladin or Great Knight
Wyvern Rider -> WLord or WKnight
Peg Knight -> Falcoknight or ?
Mage -> Sage or Mage Knight
Shaman -> Druid or Summoner
Monk -> Bishop´ or ?
Cleric/Priest -> Bishop­­­­­­­´ or ?
Troubadour -> Valkyrie or ?

...Did I miss anyth-yes!
I also want to give players a chance to make these:
Bard/Dancer -> ???
Tent -> Transport
Tactician -> ???

What Bards and Dancers do should be rather obvious. I'd like them to promote though. Sword Dancer, anyone?
Merlinus' Class should be obvious, too, as I'm sticking with the old no-more-than-five-items thing.
The Tactician is still a mystery to me. I plan on giving it mediocre stats for obvious reasons, but an Insight ability that lets its controller 'view' the enemy's status screens partly. Also gives people access to the Tactician bonus.

I also plan on making a tier 3 of some sort; one that doesn't require much work to be done while still being plenty awesome.

So yeah:
Should the class tree work like how I started my post or how I finished it?
Is the Bard/Dancer/Tent/Tactician idea good?
Suggestions? Possibly for the multiple question marks in my post?

Edit: Hey chris.

Also, I plan on making Dark tomes that don't have cheap tricks built into them. Ideas for that would be awesome.

Also, since that means Dark will have tomes aplenty, that means we have to make more Anima and Light tomes (and maybe staffs!); though we could just go for broke and use the wind/fire/thunder thing from FE9 to get out supplementary anima tomes...

This post has been edited by morph.exe on Dec 29 2010, 03:01 AM

Sounds pretty cool. Count me in.

I have to wonder about the wisdom of disallowing unmounted units from promoting into mounted units. I would like an explanation on the logic behind your decision before I make a final decision on what I like/dislike. Preliminarily, however, I like how you started the idea of the tree rather than the long list of available upgrades.

I would caution from putting too many non-combat choices into the game at the beginning. For play testing, I would suggest not including them, then later working them into the final version after you see how the interactions go.

For the dice types, if you don't want to do much work, I would suggest adapting all of the rolls into d10s in order to keep things simple. It would also make dice collecting for people joining much easier since the already established World of Darkness system uses exclusively d10s, making the market for them quite diverse.

Otherwise, I have no advice at this point.

The idea of not allowing footsoldiers to promote into mounted units or vice versa is in the event that the character isn't affiliated with an army of any kind and/or the location of the promotion. Using Mercenary (unaffiliated merc makes sense) -> Ranger as an example, and then using the Volvanic Gorgon map from FE8 makes it so that a sellsword suddenly finds himself a horse in volcanic land. Yeeeaaah...

This system makes sense considering the world I want to use, trust me.

As for non-combat units; we all know how annoying a cleric is to level; lucky it promotes to use weaponry of some kind. Dancers and bards are easy-as-pie to level and are pretty great overall.

Transport... yeah, I know.

The Tactician is very iffy at this point. Since I want to make it so each player to have three units each (so they can have a chance if I happen to make Victory or Death-like chapters), picking a Tactician might just leave them with two other units, plus the advantages of the Tactician. If not, I have no idea what kind of stats to give a Tactician, and even less what to promote it into.

Well the system as I have it in mind right now works with d20s and d10s. The d20s are used for statups on a level up and non-battle actions (because why not?), while the d10s are used as percentile die; for hitting, critical hits etc.
The Legend of the Five Rings uses exclusively d10, and - I don't know about other stores) - the card store (sells are sorts of collectibles, really) here sells 10d10 packs, so those are easily accessible.
Magic the Gathering uses d20 to keep track of the players' life totals.

It's not really a problem though; the game can run solely on 1d10. Rolling it once gives the first digit of the percentile result, and a second time for the second; and non-combat actions' success is easily doable as long as the GM considers that the maximum is 10 instead of 20. Since growths are in percentages, they can be done this way, too. Might even be simpler since you don't need to convert % do 1-20 or vice versa.

Rolling percentiles with d20 is also possible, just roll once, devide by two (rounding up) twice.

...Pardon me?

---

So after brainstorming for a while with Wakefield (he basically hangs out where I work so...) ended up with the following: (I'll be adding the definitions for the class names for reference. Bold indicates canon class.)

Myrmidon: "A follower or subordinate of a powerful person, especially one who is unscrupulous."
::Uses swords; focus on skill
-> Swordmaster: (No definition; should be obvious. Maybe it should be renamed?)
::Uses swords only; +15% Critical
-> ??? (Personally considering Evenkuruga "Very proficient at combat. Have a deep sense of ethics and justice and will often act as dispensers of justice, pledging fealty to those they believe worthy of serving." Because of what Myrmidon means.)
::Uses swords, ???

Mercenary: "A professional soldier hired to serve in a foreign army."
::Uses swords; no focus (all-round)
-> Hero: "A person, typically a man, who is admired for their courage or outstanding achievements."
::Uses swords and axes (Still debated if Fighter should get this promotion)
-> ??? (There are plenty of good names for a merc promotions, but no ideas. WF contributed the idea of adding damage with wealth; but that'll become broken, no?)
::Uses swords, ???

Theif: "A person who steals another person's property, especially by stealth and without using force or threat of violence."
::Uses swords, emphasis on speed; can use lockpicks; can steal.
-> Assassin "A person who murders someone for political or religious reasons."
::Uses swords only; can use lockpicks, may kill target in one blow.
-> Rogue: "A dishonest or unprincipled man." "A mischievous but likeable person."
::Uses swords only; can pick locks; (can Rogues steal?)

Fighter: "A person or animal that fights." (Haha.)
::Uses axes; focus on strength (Let's face it; Fighters can't aim.)
-> Warrior: "A brave or experienced soldier or fighter."
::Uses axes and bows
-> ???; Hero?
::Uses axes, ???

Pirate: "A person who attacks and robs ships at sea."
::Uses axes; can traverse watery terrain
-> Berserker: "An ancient Norse warrior who fought with frenzy."
::Uses axes only; +15% Critical (Still debated if Brigand should get his promotion.)
-> ???
::Uses axes, ???

Brigand: "A member of a gang that ambushes and robs people in forests and mountains."
::Uses axes; may (I forget what they do to villages) villages.
-> ???, Berserker?
::Uses axes, ???
-> ??? (WF often mentions Bandit Lord, but doesn't have ideas for the class itself)
::Uses axes, ???

Soldier: "A person who serves in an army." (May need renaming for reasons stated above)
::Uses lances, focus on (...I'm not sure; I haven't played 3D FE games much)
-> Halberdier: "A man armed with a halberd." (Hurr.)
::Uses lances only; +15% Critical
-> ???
::Uses lances, ???

Knight: "A man raised to honourable military rank after service as a page and squire." (Um...)
::Uses lances, heavy emphasis on defence.
-> General: "A commander of an army, or an army officer ranking above lieutenant general." (Same issue as Soldier here. Then again, they're only class names, come to think of it.)
::Uses lances, axes and swords(?); may negate enemy strikes.
-> Crusader (Would look something like the RO Crusader (what can I say? It was the best match when I searched) along with a traditionnal crusader helmet.)
::Uses Swords and Axes, makes quick work of monsters (Slayer).

Archer: "A person who shoots with a bow and arrows." (Of course.)
::Uses bows, emphasis on range.
-> Sniper: "To shoot at someone from a hiding place at long range." (Since sniper is the noun to the verb snipe)
::Uses bows; may fire a bullseye.
-> Ranger: "A member of a body of armed men."
::Uses bows and swords; mounted (considering bringing back the Nomad and Trooper and giving the Archer another promotion instead if someone thinks of a good one)

Cavalier: "A cavalryman." (Heh; short and to the point."
::Uses lances and swords; mounted
-> Paladin: "A knight renowned for heroism and chivalry."
::Uses lances, swords and axes, mounted
-> Great Knight: (No definition for obvious reasons)
::Uses lances, swords and axes; heavily armored mount

Pegasus Knight: (We all know what a Pegasus is; though I've heard that Pegasus is a single member of his species, and it has a name... I can never remember what it is.)
::Uses lances, resistance focus; flying mount
-> Falcoknight: (I doubt there's a definition anywhere for this.)
::Uses lances and swords; flying mount
-> ???
::Uses lances, ???

Wyvern Rider: "A winged two-legged dragon with a barbed tail." (Wyvern)
::Uses lances, flying mount
-> Wyvern Lord: (Meh.)
::Uses lances and swords; flying mount
-> Wyvern Knight: (Ditto.)
::Uses lances; flying mount; may disregard enemy defenses

Mage: "A magician or learned person."
::Uses anima
-> Sage: "A man recognized for his wisdom."
::Uses anima, and staffs (we removed their FE8 light; though we'd like to give them another bonus instead, like the +15% Crit)
-> (Armormage; name isn't chosen yet)
::Uses anima; emphasis on defense.

Monk: "A member of a religious community of men typically living under vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience."
::Uses light
-> Bishop: "A senior member of the Christian clergy, usually in charge of a diocese and empowered to confer holy orders."
::Uses light and staffs; makes quick work of monsters
-> Dualist: "the division of something conceptually into two opposed or contrasted aspects, such as good and evil or mind and matter." (Dualism) (I was the one to come up with that name for the RP, by the way)
::Uses light and dark

Shaman: "A person regarded as having access to, and influence in, the world of good and evil spirits, especially among some peoples of northern Asia and North America."
::Uses dark
-> Druid: "A priest, magician, or soothsayer in the ancient Celtic religion." (WF has been complaining how Shamans and Druids don't represent their common RPG counterparts, but these definitions suit FE better, no?)
::Uses dark and staffs (Removed FE8 Anima)
-> Summoner: "Authoritatively call on (someone) to be present." (Summon) (Was thinking on using "Necromancer" at first, but this ties in well with the Shaman's definition.)
::Uses dark; may summon spirits to aid in battle.

Cleric: "A priest or religious leader, especially a Christian or Muslim one."
::Uses staffs
-> Physician: "a person qualified to practise medicine, especially one who specializes in diagnosis and medical treatment as distinct from surgery."
::Uses staffs and a melee weapon of choice (mag/phys unit for hard work as a cleric!)
-> Templar: "a member of the Knights Templar, a powerful religious and military order."
::Uses staffs, ??? (I forget what WF said about the Templar, other than it is based on a kind of enemy in Assassin's creed that follows you even outside the city and attacks haystacks (where you can hide) to find you.)

Troubadour: "A French medieval lyric poet composing and singing in Provençal, especially on the theme of courtly love."
::Uses staffs; mounted.
->Mage Knight:
::Uses staffs and anima, mounted.
->Valkyrie: "Scandinavian Mythology each of Odin's twelve handmaids who conducted slain warriors of their choice to Valhalla."
-> Missionary: "A person sent on a religious mission." (Replaces the female-only Valkyrie.)
::Uses staffs and light; mounted.

Bard: "A poet, traditionally one reciting epics."
::Non-combat; plays to units for motivation.
-> ???
:: ???
?-> ???
:: ???

Dancer: "Move rhythmically to music, typically following a set sequence of steps." (Dance)
::Non-combat, dances to motivate units for combat.
-> Sword Dancer
::Uses swords, dances to motivate units for combat.
-> ???
:: ???

Tent: "A portable shelter made of fabric, supported by one or more poles and stretched tight by cords attached to pegs driven into the ground." (Durr.)
::Non-combat, unmoving; can store up to 100 items.
-> Caravan: "A vehicle equipped for living in, usually designed to be towed."
::Non-combat, moving item storage.
-> Trade Prince: "a nobleman, usually ranking next below a duke."
::Non-combat, tent can be pitched and packed (both take a full turn); storage in unusable when the tent is down; discounts in shops (Silver Card doesn't exist.)

Tactician: "The art of disposing armed forces in order of battle and of organizing operations, especially during contact with an enemy. Often contrasted with strategy." (Tactics)
:: ??????

---

I think that's all of them.

This post has been edited by morph.exe on Dec 31 2010, 04:47 AM

I made a bard in Oblivion hes pretty cool.

For the purpose of saving space, I will omit from quotes what is not necessary from here on.

I see that your reasoning is near perfect, I had not thought of that being the reason for not having foot soldiers upgrade into horse mounted soldiers. Just as a consideration, you could try doing a "dismount" idea and keep track of who has or doesn't have their horse, if you wanted to keep a more traditional FE tree, or wanted to make your life easier.

I would say that you could definitely include non-combat (I forgot to add earlier that I count clerics as combat units since combat is terrible without them included) units, maybe sans the tactician at this point. I would also say that at best, you should give them the opportunity to recruit/buy an NPC Transport unit, rather than have it a playable class.

Then go with that. Given that dice are nearby and in the different assortments (as opposed to my area) go with the system that you've already thought out, it seems to work well from what I have seen in your examples.

Yeah, I kind of was running out of time and had to post fast. What I meant to say is that I prefer the type of class tree that attempts to relate similar classes to each other by way of making some of the promoted units the same. I'm sorry I ran out of time.



Ideas for class names/weapons:

Pirate -> Corsair(axes, swords)
-The weapon choice is a bit too much like the hero, so that should probably change. Unfortunately I don't have enough time to think about it in depth.

Myrmidon -> Samurai (swords, lance)
-Could add a bit of flavor, but possibly too specific. The other weapon is definitely up to change. It makes sense if the Samurai could be mounted, but otherwise it is an odd choice.

Cleric -> Templar(if original designation is used; Staves, Swords or maybe axes); Lol at the definition.
I would suggest that this go elsewhere. In history, the Knights Templar were mainly a combat and economic force, the Stave "weapon" would likely not fit with it. Especially if we are going with the Assassin's Creed form of Templars, they would be combat experts, but lousy with anything else but being in power. Might be used for a Mercenary promotion, since they basically were church inspired mercenaries.

Bard -> Lyrist
My suggestion is to take instruments and try to make a class out of it (as with the lyre, here). Bards are such a broad category, perhaps think of having the first class be Minstrel and have them promote into Bard and something else.

Tactician -> Commander/Marshal/A million other names for the same thing.
Obviously, there is a large number of names for one who commands others in a tactical fashion. I would suggest make the tactician bonuses better for the promoted unit, or add a specific target ability that would give modest/good bonuses to the unit.

Other than that, I just can't think of much right now. I will attempt to help more at a later point in time.

I was. me and WF were defining rules for mounts yesterday.

-Mounts provide 2 Move
-Unmounted units cannot use Canto and mounted non-mounted classes do not gain Canto.
-Knight classes cannot mount.
-Non-mounted classes cannot use flying mounts and cannot critical or use skills while mounted.

The last one is a little iffy; we definately want some kind of backdraw for mounted on-foot units though.

Actually, Pirate and Corsair are the same class; Dart was a Pirate and all enemy pirates were corsairs; it confused me when I played for the first time.

I had thought of a mine skill for the Bandit Lord (or however we end up naming it) but WF thought it would be more appropriate for a Buccaneer class, which makes sense. It'll work something like the Summon skill in that they can onyl drop one mine at a time and the mine will probably do something like 5+Level damage.

I'd thought of the Samurai, though I didn't know quite where to plug it. Maybe the Samurai could have mounted rule #4 not apply to them, since Samurai can well exist both mounted an unmounted. Sword+Lance-MR4 would make sense. And they get Canto when mounted, too; why not? Basically a Cavalier with a focus for speed and criticals.

Yeaaaah, I didn't remember the Templar well; it's supposed to be a promotion for the Soldier, not the Cleric. Whoops.

---

Also! Due to my world's buildup, I'd like to break anima into a few pieces, a little like FE9's Fire>Wind>Lightning>Fire (it might be the other way around; I don't know.) but using all four greek elements instead, so the Thunder affinity would become the Earth affinity. (I might reassign support bonuses, too). Of couse, making an anima triangle becomes impossible like this; even if I use Golden Sun's elemental system, that would make opposite elements weak to each other, which makes the boons and blights a moot point; so I'll just keep to elemental schools and varying tomes for each element. Mages would get access to one element, and Sages and Battlemages (armormages) would get one or two more.

EDIT: Breakthrough! Pirates get Berserker since Fargus was a Berserker.

This post has been edited by morph.exe on Jan 2 2011, 03:47 AM

I'm in. Sounds sexy. Besides, I am in need of online social interaction right now.

Oh, and by the way, hi everyone! Long time no see! PM me if you only want to respond to the 'hi' part of my message.

If I could suggest something, it would be including Rangers without mounts (something similiar to Ike's class in PoR) who can wield swords and bows..

This way you can have Mercenaries promote into a dismounted unit, but they still can promote to using bows.

Mercenary --> Hero
Mercenary --> Ranger

Archer --> Sniper
Archer --> Ranger


Just a suggestion of course.

I have some info regarding the Knights Templar.

They aren't just an enemy in Assassins Creed, they are an order of Knights (largely, if not completly, of christian beliefs) who went on crusades for "holy artifacts" related to christ (the most important to them was the Holy Grail, the cup that jesus drank from before his death).

Had a very bad reputation of "sending children into war", "murdering and pillaging (other religious) towns for their own gains (such as Jerusulum from the muslims)" and of course "killing others for believing in something other then christianity".

However, for the sake of a fantasy rpg, the definition we would give is:

"A holy sect of Knights who fight evil, ruthlessely cutting down those who use the dark arts (magicians? Dragon Age Origin's?) and work to help humanity".

BTW, want to make it aparent that I am not a fan of The Knights Templar... the second definition was created for both "Destroying my own biased opinnions of them" and "because it is from Dragon Age Origins... but they simply call themselves Templars... you may just want to call the class "Templar, or have their own tree, such as:


Templar: Uses swords.
-A follower of the templar.

Knights Templar: Uses swords, access to Light magic
-Through training has surpassed being just a follower and has been given access to the powers of light.

Dark Templar: Uses swords, access to Light and Dark magic.
-Because of a burning passion to destroy evil, they have stepped their hand into the dark arts, granting them much more power but at the cost of their humanity.


-----------&&&--------------

Feel free to add or take away from what I have, just throwing it out there.

I just skimmed and saw some mention of dice. d20 is probably your best option, but d100 (roll twice for ten and units) fits the FE system

Dang, I thought I'd answered this already; I even remember typing my reply.

I was going to let people mount and dismount, with a few restrictions:
-There are 7 types of movement:

• Foot Soldiers
• Pirates (May cross Sea tiles)
• Walking Magic Unit (Unrestricted Sand movement)
• Mount - Horse (Provides +2 Move)
• Mount - Armored Horse (Great Knight's) (+1)
• Mount - Pegasus (Flying) (+2)
• Mount - Wyvern (Flying) (+2)

The first three imply unmounted, of course.
Mounted classes may dismount at the cost of the appropriate amount of Move. They also cannot use Canto while dismounted (Though they still possess the skill).
Unmounted classes without the cavalier skill (feel free to suggest a replacement name) get the following problems when mounted:
-Unit gets the weapon triangle disadvantages, though this stacks with the actual weapon triangle (A mounted Merc facing a Brigand would thus balance out and get +0 Hit and +0 Dmg)
-Unit does not gain Canto.
-Unit may not Critical.

Before my post, the following was true:

Merc -> Hero (+Axes)
Merc -> Outlaw (+Bows)
Archer -> Sniper (SS)
Archer -> ???
Nomad -> Ranger (+Swords)
Nomad -> Reiter (+Lances)
Cavalier -> Paladin (+Axes)
Cavalier -> Great Knight (+Axes)
Knight -> General (GS, +Swords, +Axes)
Knight -> Crusader (-Lances, + Swords, +Axes)

While writing this post, it was changed to the following:
Merc -> Hero
Merc -> Outlaw
Archer -> Sniper
Archer -> ???
Cavalier -> Paladin
Cavalier -> Ranger (+Bows)
Knight -> General
Knight -> Great Knight (renamed into Crusader) (+Cavalier)

...Make sense?

@Crisheller:

I knew that the Knight's Templar wasn't an invention for Assassin's Creed.
Also, I am not making units that can weild both Weapons and Magic. (The Physicist class has been scrapped)

Currently, these are the only classes that need making-up:
Archer -> Sniper
Archer -> ???
Cleric -> ???
Cleric -> ???
Bard -> (Unnamed Class, lets the Bard use one school of anima magic depending on their instrument)
Bard -> ???
Dancer -> Sword Dancer
Dancer -> ???


@Kaiser Cheif:
Yeah, I've settled on using d100 only already.