Firstly, I'll point out that I'm surprised this isn't a duplicate thread.

Secondly, this guy at my school(so he's a moron, it's still an intelligent topic) was going on about how great Christianity is, and dissing on my friends and I, all of whom are Atheistic, or to some extent in that direction.

We began arguing, I brought up my trump card - prove God, then we'll talk. And so he said that his mom had been in a car accident, and she'd said that his sister was surrounded by light and didn't get a scratch. Now, I called his bluff, he said his mom would show me the scars, but I didn't pursue, because in truth, more conversation with him wasn't what I was looking for.

The next day, I pointed out his intolerant attitude(trust me, it was) is the reason America is so effed up. He said "what if I dropped you in a Vietnamese camp?" That didn't make sense. I think he meant a veterans thing. Anyway, that ended.

I believe existence has no reason. We are here, and there is nothing else towards that. A friend of mine brought up an interesting point. He believes that God made the Big bang, and ended things. I don't believe that because if there is some all-powerful being, why are there so many things wrong with the world?

Anyway, share your thoughts, opinions, and beliefs on the subject.

I really have no idea. Since I can't very well find out, I don't try to overanalyze it much. If anything, my idea of a god would be something like the "prime mover" (discussed by Aristotle, I think), rather than a constantly interfereing entity.

People who try to press their religion on others, advertise it constantly, and refuse to aknowladge the possibility that they are wrong get on my nerves.

The subject was a conversation by you and some other guy. So my opinions on that is that you're both acting extremely immature and are just fighting for the sake of being right rather than to actually learn something.

qft.

Also...

You can't prove that God doesn't exist, either.

Maybe he lets all the bad things happen just for the lulz

>_>

1) I agree with everything he says

2)

i do that ALL the time lol

3)

as a matter of fact

all u have to do is bring up all the discrepancies

which isnt a lot of effort

4)

or

he's just not real

>.>

:hmm: But God's job isn't to mess around with EVERYTHING in here, if you go talk with a priest or something, they will tell you the same. By the way, yes, it's better to talk with a priest than with your Atheistic friends if you expect to learn something, religious-wise speaking.

I believe this is a test because humans failed to achieve what they should have back in Adam and Eve. There is evil in this world because people doesn't make the correct decisions, and it is a known fact among the Christians that God gave humans LIBERTY, since without it, this wouldn't be a test. God isn't the one causing the pain; Humankind is.

I also agree with DH.

Would you care to share?

Man was once perfect and blameless. Then he screwed himself over and we are still paying for that mistake. A system won't be perfect if all the parts are imperfect.

Carbon dating and dinosaurs

/religion

Ok, without readying anyones post but your here is what i have to say.

That one think you sayed,about why is our world screwed up so much? Well unless your talking natural disaster most things wrong right now were caused by us humans either by accident or on purpose. In many religions, the idea is we must be good peopl and try to avoid these kinds of mistakes for a better world and our own better afterlife.

Also , I believe that the point of christianity and some other religions is that we are being judged while we are here, if this higher being did interfere...wouldn't that kind of ruin the entire point?If we are supposed to make the right choice of our own will it has no need or purpose for intervene.

I have also thought of other thing to counter thing like,"prove god".

Well what proof to you have agianst him? We have ABSOLUTELY no way of telling what was before the universe and if the big bang is even truth.For all we no little elves could have made it >_>.
Also,I believe no matter what it is there has to be a reason for exsistence.

In my spare time I study some of the nervous system, and honestly There are no definate signs of an actual link between the mind and the brain besides that fact that they reside in the same body.I don't want to gt all philisophical but if you think of it religously,the brain could just be a link between the soul and what happens to the body.


..Man i think about this subject way to much...could rant some more. But I would only confuse others and myself.

Oh and also,you can't really say its this higher beings fault for making us.

it supposedly made us and gave us our own free minds,leaving use to the choice of how to use it.

If, by continuing my way of putting it, the being is all-powerful, would it not have forseen what a mess we would make and not given humans free will?

true, no one can prove the Big Bang, but if we tie together the Big Bang with evolution, as both combat creationism, then Big Bang/God created the universe = neither can be proven, but evolution/creationism = evolution, because facts >>> beliefs

So, let's review:
Science >>>>> Religion

I've not been one for believing in something without some kind of proof of it. So unfortunately, God would fall under that category. I've no problem with anyone who does believe though, unless they feel the need to push their religion upon me. Or those who say atheists are going to hell, or act violently towards Atheists. I get the feeling that in many situations across the nation you could get yourself killed just by saying you're an atheist.



This post certainly doesn't feel "Intelligent".


EDIT: Geez Swordsman, looks like I saved you from a triple post.

Another thing,can you tell me out of the leik billions of different species on earth why we are the only ones with free will?who have thought other than the instinct to survive.We seem to be the only creature to question its existance.

Fallowing along with the he should have seen this coming...well how do you know he hasn't? I mean there is seemingly alot of time left before our sun runs out. there is alot more left to happen.He could know how it will end. There could be some light to it all.

Ok,lolz your going to bring science into this?

Most of the science you speak of is JUST theory,so it is in no way fact.

Maybe the god was stoned? /spam

Maybe as your next point brings up, in the future, our race will asplode itself. Certainly would fix many things.

Very good argument. I have... no reason to argue, since its very valid, and I completely agree. Aside from a god existing. Proof >>> hope.

Now, as much as I doubt it, someone could say, "So, just because someone isn't doing anything means they don't exist?"

Aside from the obvious, being corporeal and made of matter and being visible 'n' stuff.

Crap. Out of time. I'll edit later.

If we were to go by theory..hmmm let go with moses shall we :D.

I know there will be some ignorant people who wil stick with,"how do I know that really happened >_>?"

Lets go with it did shall we?

I have seen on TV before many of those" its a conspiracy""the water parting was cuased by and earth quake""all egypts baies simotaniously died becuse of disease!"

Honestly,ok mabye 1 of the many weird thing could have happened by chance,I mean ok the waters parted because of an earthquake,this guy could have just been really damn lucky. but think of EVERY damn thing that happen in like what,2 months maybe..All of this being a coincidence theory=fail.

So i could logicaly back up a theory of gods existance based on the many odd things to happen in the past,and the question alone,what is the purpose of existance?

Why the hell are you saying science and religion do not go by hand?

I hope that you do know facts like that most of the scientist that have been involved in the Big Bang Theory are Christians. I also hope that you know that best Phjysics university in the world is located in the Vatican City.

They may go hand in hand,but at sometimes Science tries to hard to diprove what it cannot.

Swordsman, how do you know all of that DID happen in two months' time, or even that it happened at all? Proof plz.

proof it didn't pls.At least I have ancient text,you just have ignorance to back you up >_>. The way I see it you need to give me some proof pls.

...Oh wow. <__<;

If you're trying to show why atheism can't be true, you have to assume atheism to prove that it's illogical. Therefore, your ancient texts would be just stories and be proof of nothing.

Proof of why it didn't? It's illogical without god existing, therefore assuming religion isn't true it can't have happened unless there's something else to show it happened. Which there isn't.

l2debate

And considering that's coming from me... <__<;

This is worse than Nsider, seriously. =/

Kinda look at it backwords, you say i have no proof that god exists so this stuff couldnt have happened,well the way i see it this stuff is the proof,so your just being ignorant in the way you say that this stuff couldnt have happen cus in your eyes that is no god.

I believe you saying i have no proof cus my proof cannot be right becuase there is no god in the first place to back up my proof./Ignorance,your saying that becuase my proof cannot be accepted by you that it cannot back up god existance,.But the only proof you have in it not hapening it that god does not exist!And i am in no way saying aethiest cant be right, for al li know it could be,but im saying don't put down religion becuase how you see things threw your eyes.

Nothing is a fact.

God existing is not fact.
God being nonexistant is no fact.

It's impossible to argue as it's a higher belief that's based completely on what goes in the minds of humans. It's impossible to persuade somebody who has made their opinion the way they wanted it by arguing if what you're believing in is "true". Belief doesn't rely on truths and such, but rather what the host thinks. Trying to prove to somebody that they don't think something when they ... are, is absolutely ridiculous.

Conversion doesn't work like that, and that's really all I'm seeing in this thread. So a pro-tip on conversion: don't try to prove somebody else is wrong, but try to prove that your side is more optimal.

And just so you know what I'm talking about, here's an argument for either side:

Religion: Acquired peace after life.
Atheism: No master, no restraints.

And so people don't think the obvious things are the only things that matter:

Religion: Religious socialism via Church, Sunday School, etc.
Athiesm: Can afford to be more daring which can result in pleasure and money depending on what you do.

All I'm saying is the moment someone says a religous person has no factual proof then says,well they have the whatever THEORY is the moment they become dumb on the entire subject :| .

You're saying they're dumb because they have a different belief than you?

No,not at all,im saying there dumb because they say i have no FACTS,then back themselves up with THEORY... :duh:

I don't see anything wrong with those two actions. <_<

Theory isn't factual,thats why it's called a theory.you can put somone down for not using fact and then not use any facts yourself.Thats just being stupid.

And at the same time acting like your theories are facts >_>.

In science, theory is far more than "I think this", it is more like "evidence points to this, but it can't be entirely verified". With religion, you can't get any evidence at all. You may say "the science is impossible, therefore God must exist", but when you think about it, at that point, couldn't anyone just say whatever they want? I could say that the world was created by a flying cheezit, and it would be just as good, as far as you can actually know. Not that that means that means that God doesn't exist, it just means you can't very well argue it for a specific religon.

Ya, but theory IS NOT FACT. :|, I rest my case.

Swordsmen, What SI said is actually true... >_>;

I dun care, all im saying is a theory is an educated guess not a fact,so to say somone else can't come up with a fact then use theory and call it a fact is stupid :|.

Whoeever said there is no proof? Jesus,moses,every other damn marical to ever happen. People ar just ignorant to the fact that these people existed,and as long as science can't come up with an explination for these events,its good enough fact for me.If there IS a god he must be thinking"How many things must I do for you people to get the message?...lol god should hav sent jesus with a video camera XD,or when video camera was invented.

Technically speaking you can't prove that that is the work of a higher power. Just as I can't disprove the idea that it is.

But it happened,and as long as science can't prove otherwise it can be classified as a miracle.

This is why I dislike religious discussion in a forum. No one is going to get convinced of anything as important as this with some text typed by another person that is miles away from them.

I will just leave this thread and let you guys keep discussing and discussing and discussing, because you can keep arguing till' the end of the world, but I m sure none of the two sides of this discussion will let the other one win.

All I'm saying is that this conversation is stupid cus neither side actualy ever uses facts ;3.

Technically speaking you can't prove that that is the work of a higher power. Just as I can't disprove the idea that it is.

<_<!

^^^^this BK^^^^

You can't prove that Dragons and Unicorns don't exist either, so they must exist too! :-O

Anyways, I don't see why people must argue about religion. Religion is just to guide people throughout life. >.>