View Full Version: Makalov Vs. Astrid

Fire Emblem Spritez > Tellius > Makalov Vs. Astrid


Title: Makalov Vs. Astrid


Dragon Hellphire - July 16, 2007 11:36 PM (GMT)
Astrid - Wind
http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=astrid&game=9e
Class: Bow Knight
Weapons: Bows
Skills: Paragon
Chapter: 13
Supports: Makalov(3/6/10), Gatrie(3/6/11), Sothe(3/7/11)

Makalov - Thunder
http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=makalov&game=9e
Class: Sword Knight
Weapons: Swords
Skills: Tempest
Chapter: 14
Supports: Astrid(3/6/10), Haar(1/3/5), Bastian(1/3/4)

---Joining Situation---

Obviously this goes to Makalov because Astrid is horrible underleveled and being the bow user that she is she is still most likely not going to be gaining a level lead in the later levels even with paragon. Makalov comes with very sturdy defenses and decent enough offenses.

Stat comparison for when Makalov joins:

Astrid 4
HP: 21.4
Str: 7.2
Mag: 2.6(.6)
Skl: 7.7(.7)
Spd: 8.5
Def: 5.9
Res: 4.8(2.8)
Lck: 4.2

Makalov 10
HP: 30(8.6)
Str: 9(1.8)
Mag: 2
Skl: 7
Spd: 10(1.5)
Def: 10(4.1)
Res: 2
Lck: 8(3.8)

Makalov is soundly beating her in defenses, while still beating her by a good margin in offenses. Doubling more + More Str + Not bows = better. Not bows is also a blow to Astrid's defensive use because she won't be able to kill an enemy if it attacks her.

---Endgame---

Astrid 20, A Makalov
Str: 22.7
Hit: 76.6(12.6)
Crt: 12.85(2.3)
AS: 25.8/27(.7/0)
---
HP: 42.1
Def: 20.4
Res: 16.5(5.1)
Eva: 84.8/87.2(4.8/3.4)
Cev: 18.2(3.4)

Makalov 18, A Astrid
Str: 24.9(2.2)
Hit: 64
Crt: 10.55
AS: 25.1/27
---
HP: 49.2(7.1)
Def: 25(4.6)
Res: 11.4
Eva: 80/83.8
Cev: 14.8

Makalov is still probably winning in defenses, even with Astrid's tiny Eva lead and Res lead. Note that the Eva lead is smaller on one side; the in game side when you are using the KW. On offenses, Astrid is losing. In game they will have the same endgame AS because of the KW, so all we really need to look at is Makalov's Str lead Vs. Astrid's Hit lead. Astrid's hit is better, sure, but Makalov definitely isn't missing.

Then again Sword and Axe users the comparison sways a bit. Against Sword users Astrid could switch a bow, but that would leave her vulnerable, though using an axe isn't much better. So she sucks against them. Makalov can just mirror their sword. Then against Axe users she isn't screwed, but Makalov can get WTA making his stats look like this:

Makalov 18, A Astrid
Str: 25.9(3.2)
Hit: 79(2.4)
Crt: 10.55
AS: 25.1/27
---
HP: 49.2(7.1)
Def: 26(5.6)
Res: 11.4
Eva: 95/98.8(10.2/11.6)
Cev: 14.8

Yeah, that's pretty rape.

Makalov is better than Astrid in my opinion.

Soren - July 17, 2007 12:27 AM (GMT)
Makalov has no prayer of hitting level 18. Try level 15, if that.

Reikken - July 17, 2007 12:28 AM (GMT)
I also think that Makalov > Astrid, but they're pretty close.
Astrid will catch up to Makalov if you give them both liek 300-500 bonus exp, and then Astrid will have moar AS, and Makalov will have moar def/hp. And Makalov will have 1 range and Astrid 2 range. Higher def/hp + counterattacking = Makalov w1ns. After promotion, they both have penty of AS, and Makalov has moar atk and def. Astrid will probably be doubling Swordmasters, though.

Dragon Hellphire - July 17, 2007 12:28 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Soren @ Jul 16 2007, 03:27 PM)
Makalov has no prayer of hitting level 18. Try level 15, if that.

w/bonus experience?

I think level 18 is pretty suitable for endgame.

Archie_Chaos - July 17, 2007 05:38 PM (GMT)
Somewhere between endgame and joining, Astrid should have a larger level lead thanks to paragon, but Makalov would catch up later. IMO, Astrid>Makalov, since Astrid can pick off enemies from behind rather than having to go in front.
But...PoR has never been my point of interest, so...yeah.

Prince Denning - July 17, 2007 07:50 PM (GMT)
Astrid has low base stats and needs extreme babying upon joining.

Makalov's bases are higher, most notably his defenses, and he is therefore easier to work up combatively. : |

YokaiKnight - July 17, 2007 08:13 PM (GMT)
Makalov's better but Astrid is good and I love units that gain experience at high rates.

Besides who cares when they're supporting each other~

Hero Raven - August 9, 2007 11:22 PM (GMT)
supports mean nothing in POR. they are pointless really, plus Astrid > Makalov anyday of the week. I can get up up to lvl 7/8 in the chapter that u get her in. its pointless in comparing because thyre lvls are far apart but astrid owns him anyday.

Dragon Hellfire - August 9, 2007 11:26 PM (GMT)
Umm, no, supports give bonuses to stats that help you complete maps faster. It's like saying statistical leads on other units don't mean anything. A unit w/ supports > A unit w/ no supports. Fact.

You can get her 6-7 levels in one chapter where the only thing she can do is steal kills once per turn? Well do the same thing for Makalov and he'll be even higher! The difference is he has good durability and the ability to counter close range so he's easier to level up. Astrid requires h4x babying while all Makalov needs is a spot on the team.

Reikken - August 9, 2007 11:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Hero Raven @ Aug 9 2007, 06:22 PM)
supports mean nothing in POR. they are pointless really

Wtf are you talking about? Higher battle parameters = pointless, and means nothing? lol, yeah sure

YokaiKnight - August 9, 2007 11:26 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Hero Raven @ Aug 9 2007, 04:22 PM)
supports mean nothing in POR. they are pointless really, plus Astrid > Makalov anyday of the week. I can get up up to lvl 7/8 in the chapter that u get her in. its pointless in comparing because thyre lvls are far apart but astrid owns him anyday.

Supports boost people's stats when they're within three spaces of whoever they're supporting...that's not meaningless. They aren't as important as some make them seem, yes, but I think they play a bigger role in PoR than in a game like FE7, where the system is ***ed up.

Anyway, you haven't proved how Astrid's better...sure, you can get her to level 8 in the chapter you get her. Next chapter, Makalov comes level 10. So...yeah. This doesn't do anything but counter your statement, but since that's all the defense you had...

EDIT: lol@triplepwn

Reikken - August 9, 2007 11:31 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (YokaiKnight @ Aug 9 2007, 06:26 PM)
sure, you can get her to level 8 in the chapter you get her.

Er, she would have to get a kill on every single turn. 12 atk and 7 spd isn't doing that.

Dragon Hellfire - August 9, 2007 11:36 PM (GMT)
I gave her the level if you weren't babying her. Because the experience she gains that puts her at a higher level is counterweighted by the fact that it took babying and caused your team to function less effectively. To measure it objectively I took the route of not babying her because that just leaves one less argument to deal with allowing the comparison to be more stat-based.

YokaiKnight - August 9, 2007 11:55 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Reikken @ Aug 9 2007, 04:31 PM)
QUOTE (YokaiKnight @ Aug 9 2007, 06:26 PM)
sure, you can get her to level 8 in the chapter you get her.

Er, she would have to get a kill on every single turn. 12 atk and 7 spd isn't doing that.

For one, I usually recruit her on turn 1...also, there's almost always someone to pick off, most of my units aren't one-rounding enemies...and I often trade her a custom bow upon recruiting. But obviously, this is skewing things in her favor, and even when she's picking off things often you're probably right. I usually get her to level 4 or 5.

Hero Raven - August 10, 2007 07:24 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Reikken @ Aug 9 2007, 06:31 PM)
QUOTE (YokaiKnight @ Aug 9 2007, 06:26 PM)
sure, you can get her to level 8 in the chapter you get her.

Er, she would have to get a kill on every single turn. 12 atk and 7 spd isn't doing that.

yeryou get everyone to do the main and she steals the kills. i know i might seem annoying or what not but she is a gun units when you upgrade her. plus her general speed allows her to dodge most attacks, and if you give her the knight ward like i do she will get even more speed levels and gain the defense and res boost.

QUOTE
For one, I usually recruit her on turn 1...also, there's almost always someone to pick off


i do aswell but she has never died on me, she manages to get out of the way and i use a couple of units as a shield aswell. not too hard really.

also she will level a lot fater than makalov anyway because of her skill, so it puts her higher, and when she upgrades give her swords and she poons. here are the lvls and growths of each character.

Makalov Astrid
HP - 30, 60% - 20, 45%
Str - 9, 55% - 6, 40%
mag - 2, 5% - 2, 20%
Skl - 7, 45% - 6, 55%
Spd - 10, 50% - 7, 50%
def - 10, 45% - 5, 30%
Res - 2, 20% - 4, 25%
Lck - 8, 25% - 3, 40%

she starts lvl 1 and is behind on 6 skills. she has

10 less HP
3 less STR
1 less SKL
3 less SPD
5 less DEF
5 less LCK

thats not really much if you ask me, the speed can be made back easy as pie if you leave her with the knight ward, her luck growth is 40% so she has a good chance of nailing that back, defense would be tricky but it could be narrowed dow to 1/2 by the time you get to lvl 10 cause the growth is only 30%. Skill will be no problem she will exceed him by about 4/5 points by the time shes lvl 10 and the same goes for strength. and HP she can peg back by about half. also his resistance starts of shocking with a fairly bad percentage, so does astrid but she already has a lead of 2 points and is 9 lvls behind him so she can gain at least 2/3 ontop of that again.

put all this into factor and shee will be a far better unit than makalov is. even though she is a bow user she will doge most attacks cause of her speed and her defense followed up with the knight ward will keep her protected if she does take a hammering. making her the more desireable unit to have on your team at an overall look on your run, not just when she joins because she is behind at the start.

Dragon Hellfire - August 10, 2007 07:31 AM (GMT)
I didn't understand most of that post. <__<;;

Did you read my post? Giving her level 4 by the time Makalov joins is best for comparison for those reasons.

She gains experience easier, not faster. Assuming no babying Makalov will be leveling around as fast as Astrid for being able to gain experience on the enemies phase.

You even said give her swords ... when axes are almost always better. :hmm:

Give her the Knight Ward? Give Makalov the Knight Ward and see what happens. My top comparison also included fair distribution of the Knight Ward ... so I don't know what you're trying to prove.

YokaiKnight - August 11, 2007 04:09 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (DH)
I didn't understand most of that post. <__<;;
Um, are you illiterate? >__> It wasn't that confusing...

QUOTE (Hero Raven @ Aug 10 2007, 12:24 AM)

and if you give her the knight ward like i do she will get even more speed levels and gain the defense and res boost.
Uh, this doesn't mean much, because if you give the Knight ward to ANY Soldier/Halberdier/Knight/General/(Weapon) Knight/Paladin they "will get even more speed levels and gain the defense and res boost."

QUOTE
QUOTE
For one, I usually recruit her on turn 1...also, there's almost always someone to pick off


i do aswell but she has never died on me, she manages to get out of the way and i use a couple of units as a shield aswell. not too hard really.
Never said I had trouble with it, I don't think I've ever lost her in that chapter either...

QUOTE
and when she upgrades give her swords and she poons.
, woah, hell no. Astrid tends to trail other Paladins in attack power, she works best with axes--she has the SKL for their accuracy to not matter and enough STR that they won't weigh her down frequently (a few level ups and they won't ever, most likely). Swords aren't great at all on Astrid, and also she doesn't get to use a 1-2 range weapon other than the Sonic Sword. Not that reliable.

QUOTE
she starts lvl 1 and is behind on 6 skills. she has

10 less HP
3 less STR
1 less SKL
3 less SPD
5 less DEF
5 less LCK

thats not really much if you ask me, the speed can be made back easy as pie if you leave her with the knight ward,
Again, that's not a valid point--Makalov can take/keep the lead easy as pie if you give HIM the Knight Ward.

QUOTE
her luck growth is 40% so she has a good chance of nailing that back,
Makalov's luck isn't all that great so it's not an issue for her, yeah.

QUOTE
defense would be tricky but it could be narrowed dow to 1/2 by the time you get to lvl 10 cause the growth is only 30%.
Here's what you're forgetting. While Astrid is gaining levels (admittedly faster), Makalov is gaining levels too...Makalov's defense won't say where it is forever, barring bad levelups.

QUOTE
Skill will be no problem she will exceed him by about 4/5 points by the time shes lvl 10
Even though Makalov gains levels too, Astrid pretty much wins skill ya

QUOTE
and the same goes for strength.
No. Even assuming your skewed comparision:
Astrid level 1, +9 levels is 10
40% STR*9=3.6 STR+6=9.6
Makalov's level 10 STR=9
That's nowhere near exceeding Makalov "by about 4/5 points." She barely catches up, and when they're growing evenly Makalov keeps up (he would lead but granted Astrid is growing faster. Maybe he does lead anyway, I don't know).

QUOTE
and HP she can peg back by about half.
Still behind. D:

QUOTE
also his resistance starts of shocking with a fairly bad percentage, so does astrid but she already has a lead of 2 points and is 9 lvls behind him so she can gain at least 2/3 ontop of that again.
Most likely, Astrid will only gain one or two points, but she does win sure.

QUOTE
put all this into factor and shee will be a far better unit than makalov is.
No, you're forgetting a million things.
First, though Astrid gains more exp per attack, Makalov is attacking and countering directly more often due to a direct combat weapon, swords. Astrid will fight less often. She'll probably pull ahead in levels, but not by much, and Makalov keeps up in fighting because he has superior growths. After they're promoted, Makalov is stronger and tougher while Astrid is faster and more skilled. Not "far better" by any means.

QUOTE
even though she is a bow user she will doge most attacks cause of her speed
Only at higher levels--even fast units don't dodge often until their speed is in the 20s. And Makalov is not only fast enough to dodge (though not quite as well), but able to stand up to hits better.

QUOTE
and her defense followed up with the knight ward will keep her protected if she does take a hammering.
Makalov's defense "followed up with the knight ward" will boost him a lot too.

QUOTE
making her the more desireable unit to have on your team at an overall look on your run, not just when she joins because she is behind at the start.
Think I just countered everything you used to back this up, so I guess I've countered this too.
borg

Dragon Hellfire - August 11, 2007 05:08 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Yokaid00d)
Um, are you illiterate? >__> It wasn't that confusing...


I meant the reasoning. >__>;;

YokaiKnight - August 11, 2007 05:17 AM (GMT)
It helps if you used to think that way, like I did. B) There was life before tier lists...

Hero Raven - August 11, 2007 11:56 PM (GMT)
you do have some valid points there, i never even thought about giving her axes before. ill try that some time aye. in my opinion though i still think Astrid is far better, i can see how they are farely close units (stat wise) but ijust prefer to use her cause of her speed and skill and thats what i generally look for along with strength in my team.

also on my next run through i will use makalov so i can have an easier comparrison between the two.

YokaiKnight - August 13, 2007 03:46 AM (GMT)
You win for not behaving how many people with your views do and freaking out because people tried to point out you were wrong. :)

Hero Raven - August 15, 2007 08:58 AM (GMT)
is that a good thing or a bad thing cause i cant understand that sentence properly lol. DAMN MY LOUSY GRAMMAR/VOCABULARY!

Eniomus - August 15, 2007 10:42 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Hero Raven @ Aug 15 2007, 03:58 AM)
DAMN MY LOUSY GRAMMAR/VOCABULARY!

^this

Hero Raven - August 16, 2007 12:27 PM (GMT)
touche lol

cannonfire - July 18, 2008 03:21 AM (GMT)
Astrid>Makalov hands down. Astrid's growth rate is far superior thanks to Paragon, and frankly, I've never felt anything but scorn for malakov, on or off the battlefield.

Jem - July 18, 2008 04:54 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (cannonfire @ Jul 17 2008, 10:21 PM)
Astrid>Makalov hands down. Astrid's growth rate is far superior thanks to Paragon, and frankly, I've never felt anything but scorn for malakov, on or off the battlefield.

wtf? Paragon does nothing for growths. Besides...

Astrid
HP 45% Str 40% Mag 20% Skl 55% Spd 50% Luck 40% Def 30% Res 25%

Makalov
HP 60% Str 55% Mag 5% Skl 45% Spd 50% Luck 25% Def 45% Res 20%

As you can see.... Makalov beats her in almost everything that matters. You may claim that skill matters, but all it is a a slightly higher critical and hit rate (which is already high for both of them when putting their weapons into consideration.) You never even need too much luck in this game, so that is moot; magic is a worthless piece of crap to both; 5% more resistance isn't going to matter much, if at all, in the long run, especially since even the higher growth is considered low.

Unless, of course, you mean experience gain as growth rate. In that case, Astrid may have paragon and bows (to attack and kill(lol) weak enemies from afar) to use to level with, but she starts at level one, and it is very hard to kill with her for a long time. If she uses bonus experience she will take a lot from the group since she will require a lot to be brought up to par, and is most likely being used on healers until they promote. Makalov can at least kill when he comes, and doesn't subtract any resources from the group for joining. His weapons are even cheaper.

I see it as Makalov > Astrid.

cannonfire - July 18, 2008 08:33 PM (GMT)
While you raise good points, Makalov has never surpassed Astrid in my games, save for DEF. (My LVL 20 Astrid actually out ATKed Malkalov, was faster, more skilled, and never missed. I actually gave her very little BEXP, she earned almost every lvl she had herself, and had maxed out her Paladin spd, at lvl 14.) here are my experiences

1. I lvl 20'd both Astrid and Makalov, gave them anti Laguz weapons, and had them fight Dragon Laguz. Astrid nearly killed hers with her bow, Malkalov did about half with his sword. then I healed Makalov and prepared for the Dragons counter attack. they moved, attacked, and heres what happened. Makalov got hit, Astrid dodged.

2. While it's true that Makalov's weapons are cheaper, do you realize the shear amount of money you get over the course of the game? I was able to buy enough weapon supplies to last through the entire game! including silver weapons! Money is NOT a good reason to say one is better then the other, especially when you gain over 50,000 smackers all at once!



3. Palmeni temple. Take makalov there, have him go to town on the helpless preists there, he may gain a lvl or 2. Take Astrid, Sothe or Volke there and watch the EXP roll in! That is the lvl Astrid advanced to paladin in.


all in all, I don't know how your Astrid is but mine kicks Makalov's butt all over Tellus. (although the only other paragon user does suck, and I can never spell his name right!)

Astrids stats Lvl 20:
STR: 25 (Maxed)
MAG: 8
Skill: 25
SPD: 27 (maxed)
LCK: 20
DEF: 17+2 (from knight ward)
RES: 19+2 (also from Knight ward)

She dodges and kills dragons, Birds fall in a single turn, and even beast's can't touch this mobile archery maiden. especially when you give her a Laguz Bow, but even without it she inflicts heavy damage.

Near - July 18, 2008 10:24 PM (GMT)
Care to argue using actual stats?

cannonfire - July 18, 2008 10:40 PM (GMT)
Those are. Taken right off of Astrid's data from the game. Besides, I never lie, lying is to much work.

AngelOfDeath - July 19, 2008 01:31 AM (GMT)
PEMN = Personal Experience Means Nothing

Your Astrid won't necessarily be our Astrid. So your post is moot.

EDIT: And why bump a topic made almost a year ago? <.<

Sety - July 19, 2008 01:48 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
3. Palmeni temple. Take makalov there, have him go to town on the helpless preists there, he may gain a lvl or 2. Take Astrid, Sothe or Volke there and watch the EXP roll in! That is the lvl Astrid advanced to paladin in.

|:

Most of those priests are like level 5 or less aren't they? Besides you get the Valkyire for not killing any of them.

Near - July 19, 2008 02:00 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (cannonfire @ Jul 18 2008, 06:40 PM)
Those are. Taken right off of Astrid's data from the game. Besides, I never lie, lying is to much work.

No, they aren't. They were taken right off of Astrid's data from your game. In other words, they're completely worthless.

La_Belette - July 19, 2008 02:13 AM (GMT)
I use neither. My team is very exclusive, I only allow six units on it.




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