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Title: Warn Appeal


HordeOfDoom - August 15, 2007 04:10 AM (GMT)
Nation: Middle Earth Vault
Ruler: HordeOfDoom
Link: http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...?Nation_ID=8396

I am here to appeal the legitimacy of the 40% Warn and accompanying 2 day forum ban (which is of course over) I received on August 10th at 9:35 PM. I've waited a couple days since returning to gather all the info and calm myself down to start this thread. First, I would like to say I didn't know one got a 2 day ban for 60% warn (I had an outstanding 20% from ages ago), BUT I do agree I needed a warn or break of some kind; and the ban is over so who cares :D I debated whether or not to do this in PM, but this seemed more appropriate; if you wish to continue discussion by PM, by all means.

I think a good start to this (most likely) wall of text posts would be to quote why I was banned.

QUOTE

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/...dpost&p=8299698

Contributing the same repeat ideas to a repeat thread. I warned you to drop it. If you're not on the forums then stay off the forums.

(Full link = http://z15.invisionfree.com/Cyber_Nations/...0&#entry8299698 , unviewable to all except moderators i guess.)

Of course this doesn't really provide much info, so the warn log shows this:

QUOTE

Contributing the same repeat ideas to a repeat thread after being warned not to do so repeatedly. 40% warn level increase + 2 day suspension, and considering everything he's been up to lately that's LIGHT.


Before I get into the meat of this post I want to say I'm quite puzzled by these two posts, and will try to make as much sense of them as possible while analyzing and refuting this warn, although I'm sure you had reason to do so. I'll address this later.

:wub:

Since the 'repeat' post for which I have been banned is invisible, I can't really see what I have been banned for, however the only post of mine I can not find that had anything to do with moderation etc was one in a thread detailing recent disputes about recently banned players etc, asking for clarification of the rule. I remember writing said post, and I clearly remember trying not to appear aggressive or angry in any way when making the post, as I knew that would get me no where. The community needed to discuss the issue; as was later made clear when admin made his Regarding Recent Events thread. I specifically remember in my missing post saying something to the effect of 'Please do not lock this, as I know it is something the community really needs to discuss', along with addressing what I, at the time, viewed as issues with the means the moderators used to ban players. I called for clarification of the rules, and I believe I raised several discrepancies (this would be a lot easier if I could view the thread...). . Well, it has now disappeared, but apparently I was right, the community did need to discuss the issue (No disrespect meant).

And I got a 40% warn for this (missing) post.

The first reason given for this is "Contributing the same repeat ideas to a repeat thread." The only other post i can think of of mine that vaguely resembled in any way, shape or form my disappeared post is this one, which was, admittedly, based on faulty information, as has been made clear since. Many members were indeed uninformed and made erroneous statements; however there is no rule against being wrong :P. The two posts, however were distinctly different in both intent (I was angry in this post, as it was earlier in the morning and I had just learned the news, while I was calm and wanted discussion in the second post), as well as most of the content (The thread was a near repeat indeed, but I tried to take it in a different direction.) Also, to the extent of my knowledge there is no rule against making repeat statements in different threads.


However, SoE's post at the end of the thread sheds some partial light on the second reason for the warn/temp ban, "I warned you to drop it." SoE's post in the above linked thread says

QUOTE (SoE)

Anyone who posted off topic or mod bait in this thread will receive a warning.

No more threads about this subject, period. The rule is clear.


(Note the second line makes no mention to repeat posts, only repeat topics.) The first line of this post could I guess be interpreted as a 'warning', but I received no PM on the subject, and was never warned for the post in that thread, so I assumed it did not apply to me, as I did none of those things. As this was the only warning I have seen, regarding this issue (I received no PM either), and it is not even directed at me, I hardly see how that constitutes "I warned you to drop it.", or as the warn log shows, "after being warned not to do so repeatedly." Once does not make repeatedly, and a warn not directed at me (again, I was not warned for the incident before my temp banning about 11 hours later, although the post said all offenders would be warned: I was not and this did not apply to me.) does not constitute warning me :S I'm just really confused about this part.

The warn log also details further reasoning perhaps to my temp ban/warn increase: "and considering everything he's been up to lately that's LIGHT." I'm really unaware of anything I did, let alone 'everything'. I barely have contact with the mods besides posting in the forum abuse section trying to help them ;/

The one thing this could be referring to is a (lengthy) PM I sent to SoE before making either of the posts I have mentioned so far on the forums, when I was in was in my angriest state: I was attempting to defend my alliance members based on faulty information which has since been debunked, but again, being wrong isn't anything illegal. I would Copy-Paste it here, but it isn't showing in my sent items folder, as I believe you have to specifically check-mark a PM to do so. The post was very well written I believe, and aside from my unintentionally disingenuous claims contained much of value that could be used to the moderation staff's advantage. It was also an attempt to stop things on the forums from getting worse; apparently it failed. However, in no way was it trying to be aggressive and I provided evidence to back up my statements where evidence could be provided and asked for information where I had none. Definitely not worthy of 'everything else' I've done. From what I know I have done nothing else wrong, aside from the fact I did nothing at all wrong. Nowhere did I (to my knowledge) violate any rules, warns of conditions set by the moderation staff. I would also like to note I never received a reply to my long PM, so I can interpret that as meaning there was nothing wrong with it either.

This sentence is here because this appeal needs to be more humble. I'm not good at humbleness, but consider this the insertion of that humbleness throughout the PM. <valentine>

Well, that concludes the long analysis of the reasons for my warning, but I still have more to say! :awesome:

I want to first address this comment briefly: "If you're not on the forums then stay off the forums. " Both posts as well as the PM were sent/posted long before the (now ended) \m/ forum embargo. Several Hours at the shortest. Just wanted to point that out :D

I want to end off on this note. Although I am completely confused by the means, reasons and explanation of my 40% warn level raise, I do understand/sympathize with me being warned in some manner. My entire alliance was outraged and angry about the incident, and we were all rattling the bars; I stand by my alliance as you moderators stand together in controlling the forums. However, I was never warned, broke no rules, even if i did discuss issues with which the moderation staff was uncomfortable. Would it not have been more appropriate to give me a verbal warn in the form of 'HordeOfDoom drop it or you're in trouble' or even a 20% warn increase for 'Being Annoying!' ? (I like honesty :) ) While no warn was deserved i would have completely stopped any of these unwanted actions and posts had I simply been told to stop, or even warned once. Seeing how none of this occurred I am again totally confounded by my warns.

I do not deny the benefits a 2 day ban had on me; I would most likely have posted comments in admin's thread earlier discussed worthy of several warns, in support of my alliance leader, and elaborating on his point. However I never got the chance to, and for that i am grateful. I should have requested a ban like my friend Samu perhaps :D

But overall, I always try to discuss things rationally and better both the forums and the game as a whole, because i believe that is my duty both as a citizen of planet Bob (IC) and a member of these forums (OOC) and I like to think I make a difference when the community is allowed the opportunity to speak. I am not against the moderation, in fact I aspire to be a moderator one day (Although not if my warns keep up), but sometimes I am maddened by events (justified or otherwise) and try to make things better for everyone. If I ever offended you in any way SoE, im sorry, Amin mela lle <inlove> . If there's anything I can do to make up for any unintended injuries I have caused you, you need only to PM.

If there is anything (Posts, etc) I have missed in this post, please inform me, cause again, I simply don't understand.

To conclude in smiley form, <psy?>, :wub: mods.


HordeOfDoom
High King of the Middle Earth Vault and Comander in Chief of her vast armies.


P.S. I am told by many I need a tl;dr.

tl;dr <psy?> What'd I do <crying>

Sword of Estel - August 15, 2007 03:56 PM (GMT)
The warning was legitimate and it was decided you were on a roll and needed a break from the forums before you got yourself banned.

The warn log most definitely does not refer to your PM to me which was immediately shared with the Senior Staff--ironic though your PM was given what we already knew you had been up to at the time. I was referring to your involvement in conversations privy to the mod staff in which you encouraged attacks on in-game alliances based on speculation that they harbored mods and your contribution to harassment of moderators including but not limited to spreading malicious OOC falsehoods about myself. As I said, you got off light, but your file is still open so I suggest you stop playing innocent and don't push it.




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