Loyalists or Traitors, Whats your army

I'm planning on running both. Get a good mix of chaos and loyalist pattern marines on the field and just confuse the hell out of opponents. Never play the same models against the same guy twice once i build enough of them up. Maybe even do the loyalist guys in the pre herasy color scheme, just to mix it up more.

For me the Alphas are somewhere between loyalist and traitor. For my money, they're certainly loyal, but to who? To a long dead Emperor, to their primarch and to an Imperium that doesn't exist any more. They're like relics from the past that don't belong.

They may have thrown their lot in with chaos but I doubt many of them are walking around crying out to father nurgle and such. Of course, at the same time, they've been touched by choas at least partially.

I think we are simply doing our own thing, having gotten sick and tired of both the Imperium and Chaos. There will be elements that are loyal to Chaos and to the Imperium. I think the siding with Chaos is simply a facade for some great plan. Very Alpha. It has most of us fooled!

Plus it's almost impossible to be forgiven by the Imperium, especially when you were involved with the antagonists of an historical event that almost claimed your God's life and pissed off one of his favourite sons to the point he went Primarch-hunting.

My fluff demands/allows the presence of loyalist-pattern stuff in my army, as well as my liking the plain, fairly-geometric look (when one attacks that Imperial insignia garbage with a file) of the modern ceramite armour patterns.

I feel compelled to say this.

After I was done reading Legion for the 4th time last night, I'm more throughly convinced that there's really a grey area on which side the AL stand for.

With that in mind, I fully intent to use AL with the justification to whatever to the means to justify the end. Therefore, I fully intent to use C:CSM, C:SM, and Inquisition Dex to manipulate the opponents.

Of course, I think it would be far more valuable tool to use infilitration mad skillz.

Yes, I know there are several other players out there who detest Dan Abnett's work with the Legion. I just think Dan Abnett did a very good job to confuse the hell out of all of us, which I'm sure AL intent for him to confuse himself as well.

Hydra Dominatus!!

I feel like its my duty to say this.

I met Dan Abnett at Gamesday in Toronto. I could have asked him about Gaunt's Ghosts. Instead I asked him about Legion. I told him about this thread. I told him how Senseilord Ashahara cursed him (to which, Abnett laughed.)

I asked Abnett about the infamous revelation in Legion and why it was there, why he changed their loyalties. His answer was that Legion had to have a great secret revealed in it. The biggest possible secret he could conceive was to change their ideals in some drastic way. He put it through the company and they greenlighted it. It is because of that answer, from Abnett himself, that I firmly believe everything Legion said at face value. He did not drop that change into Legion to mess us up, he was creating a big secret.

If it wasn't a true "big secret" and the revelation in Legion is untrue, then Abnett wouldn't have met the corporate prerequisites for the book and Legion wouldn't have been published.

Very nice input Vashuss, welcome to the forum (as a poster at least; seems you've been lurking )

I think the AL has probably messed with our m,inds somewhat - in the back of mine (working overtime today!) is a little voice saying "Yeah, but what's the twist"

Even if there was no further complication to their motives, no double cross by the Cabal, or infection by Chaos, the very fact that they failed in their mission to install Horus as ruler of everything means there is still a story yet to tell; what happened when they realised that they were going to fail? They can't be continually pursuing Horus' rise to power, as he is dead, so what happened next?
Are they still united or have truely splintered in disparate factions?

The very outcome they sought to avoid has come to pass; so are they just sulking, or is there still a way out at the end? Hey, maybe we're working for the C'tan now? Us and the Harlequins, hand in hand!

I think that only alpharius and his most trusted knew about it, therefore when alpharius died the others had no idea that they were actually helping the imperials, therefore leading them deeper into chaos. that is assuming alpharius is dead, and that his most trusted are also dead (both unlikely)

but my cell is chaos, whether for imperial cause or otherwise, as they are renegades except their leader, who's squad was destroyed during a run in with an imperial frigate when attempting to slip past a blockade. meaning the renegades have prospered well under their millennia old champion, but have no idea of the true purpose of their fighting.

Well, my ultimate conclusion from Abnett's answer is that whatever happened to the AL, they're not working for chaos.

I think the AL has probably messed with our m,inds somewhat - in the back of mine (working overtime today!) is a little voice saying "Yeah, but what's the twist"

Even if there was no further complication to their motives, no double cross by the Cabal, or infection by Chaos, the very fact that they failed in their mission to install Horus as ruler of everything means there is still a story yet to tell; what happened when they realised that they were going to fail? They can't be continually pursuing Horus' rise to power, as he is dead, so what happened next?
Are they still united or have truely splintered in disparate factions?

The very outcome they sought to avoid has come to pass; so are they just sulking, or is there still a way out at the end? Hey, maybe we're working for the C'tan now? Us and the Harlequins, hand in hand!

There is of course the possibility that while the galaxy may seem to be heading towards a slow and painful death because of the Alpha Legion's evident failure, they may have another plan of sorts. They could have practically chosen to go to Terra during the siege. They batted aside resistance from the loyalists like chuckies with a tennis racket. Something fishy afoot...

I think that even we, the Legionnaires ourselves, would know too much if, for example, the fate of the Primarch(s) was revealed.

actually after reading Legion I got the impression that the AL had already been corrupted. Use of chaos artifacts {captured weapons to fit in) The moral debate on the Emperor's goals where the conclusion was the Imperium was doomed. The skirting of the council of Nikea with the use of auxillary psychers. I think Alpharius and Omegron had already made their own seperate deal with chaos and that the AL's Agenda is very much it's own.

I like the fact that my cursing of Abnett made him chuckle.
In a similar debate on Bolter and Chainsword I said that for Legion I'd have to punch him upside the head and buy him a pint for Legion.
I also suggested that Legion is the most debated book since the bible
It's a top book and I love his work. He did create a mystery, wrapped in an enigma, covered in a riddle with that book.

Yes, I made sure I quoted you exactly.

Good effort son.