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The Serpent's Lair Alpha Legion Forum > Alpha Legion Discussion > New Legionnaire, but confused


Title: New Legionnaire, but confused
Description: The Alpha legion whoo's side are they re


richvik - November 11, 2011 05:53 PM (GMT)
I know that this goes to the heart of what the AL are about, claok and dagger etc etc, but just re-read Legion for the umpteenth time, andalthoguh i am a long time Space Wolf player, this novel is my favourite by a clear mile. But it does confuse me.

Now, surely Alpharius/Omegon would need more convincing than some alien's showing them a home movie from the future. or as the youngest of the founding legions, are they "purer" than the established legions, their gene seed cleaner, and therefore able to see things in an unclutered way? They know without a doubt that the Emperor hates Chaos above everyhing else, he is indeed in the proces of making warp travel a thing of the past when the Heresy erupts.

I know I seem to contradict myself, but this is what fascinates me about the AL and makes them the most interesting of the legions. They are playing the "long view" game, as the Emperoro was doing, and I am hoping we get to find out what they are REALLY doing, as i am sure that they are not just taking some aliens word for anything.

: mark :

Eetion - November 11, 2011 06:35 PM (GMT)
I can promise you this. We will probably nmever find out what they are up to.
It will be one big mystery for nerds like ourselves to debate and consider instead of turning our fearsome intellects to solving the world debt crisis. Another AL conspiracy I might add.

But in short.... What makes you think they believed the cabal? And are not playing them?

Excessus - November 11, 2011 08:31 PM (GMT)
I've heard rumours about a story where they show their "true" colours and oppose the cabal...

At first glance it might seem as if they follow the cabal's vision, but to be fair, they never believed in the emperor's utopia from the start. A/O were closer to Horus than they were to any other of their brothers. Since the "Legion" story happens years before the heresy, they already know that it's going to be happening because of the cabal's vision, having plenty of time to make up their minds, the attack at the end of the book is for me more of a "no witnesses" thing.


brother-serpent Wethaur - November 12, 2011 03:48 AM (GMT)
As long as you are not one of those "gender confused" you'll be fine.

Excessus - November 12, 2011 09:28 AM (GMT)
Sorry, forgot to answer a few things.

The Big E never tells the legions what he's doing on Terra, he just gives the mantle of leadership to Horus and disappears from the front line. He also never told them properly about "the primordial destroyer" (chaos).

The Alpha Legion's gene-seed is together with the Night Lord's gene-seed purer than any other traitor legion gene-seed, it's a legacy I believe they handle properly and with care. Unlike other legions the AL have access to loyalist and imperial equipment due to mostly operating in imperial space. Also, the liberation of Ghorstangrad from imperial oppression means that they have access to functional equipment for making new astartes the "proper" way...an advantage I bet they use gladly. The AL being "newer" mostly reflects in their marks of armour(I don't think they had any Mk3 Iron armours) and their martial pride, they wanted to prove themselves to their brother legions and show them that they also could do great things...which is a hard thing when you are new and your brothers have mile-long lists of victories and glory already...Alpha Legion are hard workers...


Even IF the Alpha Legion once had a pro-imperium agenda, after 10k years and with the current perversion of the emperor's original plans and visions, I have not a doubt in my mind that they are a strong anti-imperium faction! I have also a strong belief that there have been corruption during the way(it's 10k years after all), maybe not in gene-seed, but in mind and body.

kingcann - November 17, 2011 04:51 PM (GMT)
maybee they could be playing both sides of the field.

because they work in many independant cells its quight possible that comanders of said cells could become corrupt and therefore corrupt there cell, or a comander could be loyal and keep his cell loyal.

even most loyal chapters have had traitors and extremists that have fallen to chaos
so its likely with greater preasures that some of the legion are full blown heritics.

just some food for thought here but the grey knights founding members are loyalists from traitoris extreamist legions how many alpha legion sleeper agents do you recon fill there ranks?

kill all :nosmurf:

Excessus - November 17, 2011 05:29 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (kingcann @ Nov 17 2011, 04:51 PM)
because they work in many independant cells its quight possible that comanders of said cells could become corrupt and therefore corrupt there cell, or a comander could be loyal and keep his cell loyal.

Problem with that is that the imperium they helped forge was a very different thing that it is "today". Today's fascist totalitarian regime and emperor-worshipping is completely opposite what they tried to accomplish back in the crusades.

If they would be loyal, it would be to the ideals and visions the emperor stood for, which can't be found anywhere 10k years later. So even if they are loyal to the emperor's original ideas, they'd still be treated as heretics nowadays...

And with a built-in patience like the AL have(they waited 300 years to take a chapter down after all), I highly doubt they would have been changing their views along with the environment around them.

My bet is that any 'loyal' cells slowly got more and more disillusioned with the imperium of man and how things were run that they too started to "bat for the other team"...


But yes, indeed, KILL ALL :nosmurf: !!!! : devil :

: mark :

ka'terrill - November 21, 2011 04:45 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Excessus @ Nov 17 2011, 05:29 PM)
QUOTE (kingcann @ Nov 17 2011, 04:51 PM)
because they work in many independant cells its quight possible that comanders of said cells could become corrupt and therefore corrupt there cell, or a comander could be loyal and keep his cell loyal.

Problem with that is that the imperium they helped forge was a very different thing that it is "today". Today's fascist totalitarian regime and emperor-worshipping is completely opposite what they tried to accomplish back in the crusades.

If they would be loyal, it would be to the ideals and visions the emperor stood for, which can't be found anywhere 10k years later. So even if they are loyal to the emperor's original ideas, they'd still be treated as heretics nowadays...

And with a built-in patience like the AL have(they waited 300 years to take a chapter down after all), I highly doubt they would have been changing their views along with the environment around them.

My bet is that any 'loyal' cells slowly got more and more disillusioned with the imperium of man and how things were run that they too started to "bat for the other team"...


But yes, indeed, KILL ALL :nosmurf: !!!! : devil :

: mark :

That is the way of truth I think. even if they are still loyal to the emperor's orig. plan they would be considered traitors in the 40k world. The marines of the 40k world are barely trusted and are always looked at by the inqusition. I would think if a group of preheresy marines were found in the current time they would be shocked and descusted with where the lords of terra have steared things. They would probably rebel. being a 30k alpha player, I try to have that outlook of what the emp. was trying to do, just how we get there is the question. the high lords are like children playing kings, and have no say on what the emporer's sons do anyway. We answer to only two powers. our primarchs and the emperor. and untill he shows up to tell us that we are wrong.........

grimz - November 26, 2011 11:41 PM (GMT)
I like the idea in a black and white universe they are multiple shades of grey.

There's a good short story about the AL which their motives yet again become suspect, I don't want to reveal too much in case you haven't read it. Can't remember the book sorry. One like Heroes of the space marines though.

Eetion - November 26, 2011 11:58 PM (GMT)
Is it the the Age of Darkness book?
theres 2 AL stories in there.....

One supporting their chaos another supporting their loyal.

Drake Malice - January 11, 2012 03:53 PM (GMT)
my personal opinion is that AL is still Loyal to the Emperor but not the Imperium itself. They are merely waiting for the most opportune moment to critically impair chaos as a whole

Belisarius - January 12, 2012 01:21 AM (GMT)
having been reading Deliverance Lost, I am convinced the legion is working on a third path placing themselves on top, following their own agenda.

cunvikted - January 12, 2012 04:25 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (Belisarius @ Jan 11 2012, 08:21 PM)
having been reading Deliverance Lost, I am convinced the legion is working on a third path placing themselves on top, following their own agenda.

I have to agree with this, I'm halfway through the book and getting the same vibe. As far as the two Age of Darkness stories, I believe the one "loyalist" story is a precursor to Deliverance Lost.

AL-PiXeL01 - January 12, 2012 10:51 PM (GMT)
Yeah, I agree with both of you in both accounts.
It also adds a bit more to the al mystery based on Deliverance lost's conclusion

FifthColumn - January 22, 2012 12:00 AM (GMT)
The one thing we should touch upon, is the fact that 10,000 years have past since the events of Legion. That's a massive stretch of time by anyone's reckoning, it would be a stretch to think that the Alpha legion operating today are still holding to any sort of philosophy from a bygone age.

As much as i love the Alphas, we are in danger of just assuming that they're omniscient and just have everything together. Bear in mind that the legion as it is, just does not exist now. Like all other chaos forces it's become splintered into hundreds if not thousands of separate factions.

I just can't believe that in the 40k era that the Alpha Legion still have some sort of centralized command, it just doesn't work like that on the evil side. Think about it, there's cells out there employing the use of daemonic entities just as there are those adhering to traditional methods of subterfuge. Do we think they're all singing from the same hymn sheet? I doubt it.

The actual debate shouldn't be "what side are we on?" it's more of a case of "Why did they side with Horus?"

It's been 10,000 years, sorry to break this to you folks but we are the bad guys.

Eetion - January 22, 2012 12:32 PM (GMT)
I agree wholeheartedly. Were bad guys. Just in shades of grey.
I would say the only constant is:-

Were manipulative and plans are complex
And
Each cell has varying degrees of corruption.

Omicron - January 22, 2012 08:38 PM (GMT)
I don't necessarily agree with that, but this is my personal view -- a hybrid creation of the Legion's old fluff and new.

The Alpha Legion follows on the concept that the path to Hell is paved with good intentions, but it is a road that they travel purposely, and knowingly. They assumed the role of predator against the Imperium because of the knowledge imparted to them by the Cabal; but their adherence to the Cabal's goals is obviously less than certain (going by the ends of Deliverance Lost). We all know how the Heresy ends, and that the Alpha Legion, whether by design or fate, is unable to see the Cabal's preferred future to come to past.

Fast forward to the 41st Millennium. The Alpha Legion maintains its guise as an enemy of the Imperium, but their assaults on humanity are intended not to tear down mankind, but instead to strengthen it. Their predations show the Imperium's its weaknesses, cutting away the dead flesh that is dragging it down so that it can continue to rise -- smaller, perhaps, but stronger. The Alpha Legion isn't breaking down the Imperium, it is empowering it so that it can survive the inevitable rise of Chaos that the Cabal predicted would happen if Horus failed. The Legion's true betrayal is not of the Imperium, but of Chaos -- of the very powers that they pledge to serve in pursuit of their strengthening of the Imperium. In this, they are perhaps the most altruistic servants the Imperium has ever known: they have sacrificed themselves for the good of all mankind.

Esdras Siroch - March 6, 2012 03:20 AM (GMT)
-_- Remember brothers, as radical and hypocritical as the imperium has become, even if the emperor would be very upset over how the imperium was handled in his absence, we are smart enough to know that it actually protects the adaptus astartes from whole heartedly embracing chaos. When the emperor returns, he can have the honor of chewing the lords of terra down to latrine technicians. ;)

But for now, it's a necessary contradiction to their origin as astartes, and to the imperium's origin. :mellow:




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