AFTER THE TUDORS;
After The Tudors is an AU site, but uses history as a guide, and takes aspects from the Tudors TV series, as well as the Elizabeth movies. It's up to you, the members, to decide the outcome of the site. Will the Catholic Mary remain queen, or will she be triumphed by the Protestant Elizabeth?


As of now, Edward is dead, and in his place sits his devoutly Catholic sister, Mary. For months Mary has been hiding behind closed doors, in fear of the public she now has to rule, the majority of which are Protestant. Never imagining she would live to sit on the throne, the new queen not only has to deal with her people, but the secretaries who once worked so diligently for her brother. Between her citizens, and her council, returning to the old ways, and forging the bonds that were once broken with the Sea of Rome, will not be easy for the eldest Tudor, but she is determined to try.


Enjoy forums? Start your own community for free.
InvisionFree - Free Forum Hosting
Welcome to After The Tudors. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Name:   Password:



<¢er>
Pages: (2) 1 [2]  ( Go to first unread post ) LOCKED NEW TOPIC NEW POLL

 The angry lion appears Part I, Sir William Dormer & Henry Cromwell
Henry Cromwell
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:43 PM


Baron Cromwell of Oakham


Group: Admin
Posts: 189
Member No.: 13
Joined: 15-May 11



Henry crossed his arms over his chest and looked at the man.

You know your daughter well, I will not deny what you just have said about Jane. She is the daughter you have raised very well, Sir William. And I understand your concern when it comes to her and men. But I'm not such a man, I do respect women and I would never harm your daughter and also I would never fool your daughter just to get her into my bed. Quite the contrary, I wanted to speak with you as it should be.

He explained in a calm and now more friendly voice, even if he didn't like the tone that Sir William still used.

Well, if you want to kill me, a guiltless man who just wanted to protect the reputation of your beloved daughter, then do it. And just that you know whom you killed: My name is Henry Lord Cromwell, son of Sir Gregory Cromwell Baron Cromwell of Oakham. I think I needn't to mention my grandfather.
Top
Sir William Dormer
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:44 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 94
Member No.: 10
Joined: 15-May 11



When he heard that name he paled and shaked a bit. It was like a huge slap. A Cromwell... A Cromwell?! A protestant? After loosing his wife because of that religion, now he has to see hi dauhter in the palm of a protestant... And that family...

How... dare... you... even... look at... my daughter. I won't let her seeing you again, You... and your family.... No... Never.

He was angry, and now his silent, whispering anger showed his real face and was more scarry thhan when he shouted.

How... dare you talk about her honor... and reputation when I saw how you kissed her... how you touched her. Like in a tavern... And you speak about respect?
Top
Henry Cromwell
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:44 PM


Baron Cromwell of Oakham


Group: Admin
Posts: 189
Member No.: 13
Joined: 15-May 11



Henry shook his head, it was unbelieveable! Either this man was just stubborn or stupid.

What is about me and my family? Speak frankly!! But I advice you to choose your words wisely, Sir William...

How can you dare to speak with me about me and my family in such a tone?!! You don't even know me!!

And how I dare to speak about her honor and reputation? Pretty simple. I respect her and it seems that I know her better than you do! Your daughter is clever enough to choose wisely with whom she speaks and whom she loves! I can't believe that you talk about your own daughter as if she would be a woman who you can find in every tavern in London!!

Henry stepped closer to Sir William and hissed.

You haven't the right to speak about her like this! You should be careful or you will lose your peace in one way or the other.
Top
Sir William Dormer
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:44 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 94
Member No.: 10
Joined: 15-May 11



Your family has much to do whit the fact that this country is devided. Thatfamilies are devided. That monastries are burned down. Your grandfather started something he shouldn't have...

And I don't know you, you are right... But I knew your grandfather, and I know you Protestants.

And my daughter was raised to avoid people like you... To meet and love Catholic people-

It was like a hissing duel, with slow, and careful swordmoves.

To love her? How dare you??? You are not...

Worth of her shoe.

And I wasn't talking about HER! I was speaking about YOU! You are the one who seduced a young girl. YOU!! My daughter is an angel, I know her, but there are such devils like you....
And now you even dare to threaten me?!
Top
Henry Cromwell
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:44 PM


Baron Cromwell of Oakham


Group: Admin
Posts: 189
Member No.: 13
Joined: 15-May 11



Oh come on! This country was already devided before my grandfather came to power! And it isn't my grandfathers guilt, that people are that stupid to let the faith come between them! That's a stupid excuse. And just to remind you, not my grandfather was the king, he was just a minister, an adviser to Henry VIII! It was Henry's doing, everything what happened was the king's doing and only his. It would be too simple to get the blame to my grandfather. Thomas Cromwell didn't burn people because of their faith! It was Henry VIII. His first minister just did what he had to do, and that was the king's commandments!! Should I remind you that the king has always the last word and not his minister?

Sir William stuck in a hornet's nest. That was something Henry couldn't simple ignore. And it was the first time he used the name of the former King! Something he did avoid for years.

So, you know my grandfather and the Protestants? Given the fact that I just heard your words about my grandfather I don't think that you know him! Even it seems you didn't know even the Protestants. We aren't that blind like you Catholics, we give everyone a chance, we use our own mind and don't follow one man who claims he is the representative of God on earth and gives orders to murder people! God is the only judge and only He has to decide who will die and who not, not a man in Rome!

Henry's eyes could have killed this man in front of him. How could he dare to think he know all people just because they are Protestants?

I seduced her!? Are you serious?! I did nothing like that!! You should not speak such stupid things, Sir! But I have to agree in one point. Jane is an angel and she is more worth than your whole family!

Henry just ignored the insult "devil". Some people will never learn it.

Yes, I dare... For you started and I will do everything for Jane and I just wanted that you know it!! Are you really that blind?! But you just see what you want to see. You just believe what you want to believe!
Top
Sir William Dormer
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:45 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 94
Member No.: 10
Joined: 15-May 11



William rose his eyebrow and for the first time an approving smile appeared in the corner of his mouth. This Cromwell can speak and protetc his family like a lion. But he is still a protestant youung full.

Master Cromwell, of course this country was devided many times before, we can go back till William the Concqueror if you wish, but it has no sense. We both know the country was prospering.

William winced at the mentioning of the division of families.

You say, it's stupid... But let me tell you. it can happen, if your wife chooses the new religion over you and your child, if your uncle is executed because of the old religion and you mother almost looses her mind because of that. And even xou said, your grandfather was an advisor... Well he could advise the King not to turn everything upside down. Or he was so mush disapproving with the King's decisions wy didn't he resign, like I did, or More did. No, he stayed, so declared he agrees with the King. But on the other hand they were both just fools, mislead by that witch.

He almost spat the last word,

And let me tell you, that you protestants are not better than we Catholics. You found this new religion, and try to destroy the whole old religion, just because it had some mistakes. You cannot let people follow old paths. Or why had people to die just because they didn't want to deny the faith they were brought up in? What was their father's and grandfathers faith? Or why do you havr to destroy monastries? It was all because of the money. And who whould know it better, if not you, whose family property is a former monastry, right?

He smiles bitterly.

And then how did it happen? My daughter seduced you? Or how could that happen that you two were kissing publicly although it's highly inappropriate? Or did I see something wrong?

Oh, and now you judge my whole family wirhout reason and knowing them!

He walks to Henry and whispers in his face.

If I'm that blind, tell me, what should I see? What should I believe in?
Top
Henry Cromwell
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:45 PM


Baron Cromwell of Oakham


Group: Admin
Posts: 189
Member No.: 13
Joined: 15-May 11



Should I remind you that I'm not a Master? We should keep the respect in this conversation, Sir William. I ask for nothing more.

Henry listened carefully to the arguements that William brought up. He shook slowly his head, not because he wanted to irritate that man more, but because of his arguements.

Don't you hear yourself? It was your wife who chose the new religion, while you remain with the old... Right? That means you both didn't find a way to arrange yourself with that, no... you chose the path of separation. And I'm sorry for you and your mother. Don't think I'm heartless, nor should you think my grandfather was it. He tried everything to save even Catholics. They had all their choice, Sir. And they all made their choice, like Thomas Cromwell, like Thomas More and so on. My grandfather didn't resign because he believed in a new world, he wanted to modernize the Tudor-state. And with that I don't mean just the faith.

If you want that I should tell you some examples for his good work, then tell me and I will do it.

And no, even he did like Anne Boleyn, Sir. He just liked her because the king liked her, my grandfather was just a loyal servant to the king and he shouldn't be blamed because of his loyality to his sovereign. You were also a loyal servant to His former Majesty, right? Then you should understand him. But he chose the path you avoided, he stayed and paid the highest price.

Henry explained and at his last sentence his voice became a bit trembling. It still hurted him deep in his heart, that his grandfather had to die because of stupid lies of the Catholics, of course not all, therefore he didn't hate all Catholics. He had friends in this faction.

Sir, I didn't say that we are better than you. Who claims this is more than stupid. No, we are all human beings, no matter if we are Protestants or Catholics, we are all God's children. And yet, we kill each other in the name of God. What an irony.

And in terms of the monasteries, well yes it was because of the money. But let me tell you, that the king wanted to destroy them because of the money. My grandfather didn't want to destroy them, at least not at the beginning. And you have to admit that the monasteries or at least the monks weren't men of God!

He got tired of this conversation, it brought them nothing. They would just turn in circles. He know it just too well.

No one of us seduced the other, Sir. Did you ever hear about love? True love? God's gift to the mankind? Try to see it from this side. And if you know this kind of love you would know why you saw what you saw.

Henry rubbed his forehead before he looked with a frown back to Sir WIlliam.

Now, you know how it hurt if someone judges your whole family without knowing them!!

He clared at him.

Henry didn't move as Sir William came closer and whispered to him. He just looked to him with a knowing sparkle in his eyes.

Love...

He whispered back.
Top
Sir William Dormer
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:45 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 94
Member No.: 10
Joined: 15-May 11



William bowed slightly.He knew when he was wrong.

You are right, I appologize, then Sir. I hope this is respectful enough.

I don't want to bore you with family issues, but you must kbow, you are wrong, if you think you know who did let chose whom or who didn't.

Just a wrink in the corner of hois liips showed any emotions.

I just simply don't think that to choose between your past and soul and your life, is not a choice, but I won"t try to persuade you. It would be a burdeb discussion.

No, don't worry, I knew your grandfather, and I know that he had some good intentions maybe using wrong means, And let me give you an advice. Loyality should never mean blind following. And your family paid a high price till they learnt it.

In my opinion there were some monks who were guilty. But not all of them. Not ALL of them.

Now William was the one who shook his head.

Love is overestimated. And Jane doesn't know anything about that. And she didn't get permossion to love. Nor you. I'm his father, I'm responsible for her life and I won't let nor her nor you to ruin it. I bring her home, and you will find a new girl to play with. It's highly time to bring things in order. I shouldn't let her come here.

When he heart Henry's last word he burst out in laughter.

Don't be ridiculus. Love is just a disturbing element. It cannot solve anything. it has no power to save the world.
Top
Henry Cromwell
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:45 PM


Baron Cromwell of Oakham


Group: Admin
Posts: 189
Member No.: 13
Joined: 15-May 11



Henry also bowed his head slightly just to show Sir William that he took his apologize.

Not bore, Sir William. It's just not my business.

He said frankly and it was the truth.

The same I won't try but my opinion is, that we all have choice, everytime. No matter in which matter.

Sir William, my grandfather wasn't blind, he just believed in the king, he trusted the king and then he was betrayed from the one he loved and for whom he did everything -after his only son of course- even to be the bad man. And you can't judge a man if you don't know him and his past, if you don't know his intentions, if you don't know why he did what he did.

Henry said sadly. Of course, he also didn't know everything about his grandfather's past but he was sure that there was the answer of all his doing.

You see, not ALL of them. And that's the same with Protestants and Catholics, not ALL of them are "evil". I mean, you know what the former king did after Thomas Cromwell was dead. Everything ended up in chaos nobody was save. Everyone could end up at the stake or in the Tower.

He smirked slightly at William's words. This man was really stupid when he thought Jane didn't know something about love. How could a person not knowing love?

Are you really that sure that your daughter doesn't know nothing about love? Do you really think she is as blind as you?

And if you would know love, you wouldn't laugh about it! Love keeps us alive, but maybe you are long dead.

He took a deep breaht.

If you think you can keep Jane away from me, then you are wrong. She belongs to me and I belongs to her, and if you will stand in our way, and your daughter's happiness, then you will lose her.
Top
Sir William Dormer
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:46 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 94
Member No.: 10
Joined: 15-May 11



I'm not blind, Sir I do know love. As does everyone. But I know my daughter. At least knew her before she came here. I cannot judge what happened here, as my daughter never mentioned any such issues nor in her letters nor while her visits, And now I start to suspect why... So, if she knows something about love, what your mocking face indicates... then she does know it from you...

His anger rises again. He cannot even think of that Jane is probably not a virgin anymore. Such a shame...

Oh, yes, love has wonderful powers... Which make just things complicated.

He dangerously close to Cromwell again.

Listen to me! Jane is my daughter! And she is an obidient daughter who respects me and her family. She would never go against heer fanily's will. So if I say she leaves the court, she will! I sent her to Lady Mary, but God knows where she is. So, this is not a oroper enviroment for her. She comes home and you don't even think of hopingg to see her again. Jane doesn't belong to you! Never did, never does and never will, And, please, don't overestimate your spell... She loves her family more then anything and respects it as well.
Top
Henry Cromwell
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:46 PM


Baron Cromwell of Oakham


Group: Admin
Posts: 189
Member No.: 13
Joined: 15-May 11



I can asure you, that nothing bad had happened here. Your daughter is still a honorable woman, don't think that low about her and don't think ever like this about me! I do think, that you just know physical love, for if you would know the other side of love, you would not talk like that!

Henry looked to the man who slowly started to annoy him more and more. He tried the whole time to control himself and he got it sometimes but what was too much was too much.

Oh really, your daughter is your property? I thought she is a human being?!! At least I look at her like that! I don't see her as a property nor as a whore, what I believe, is your picture of her right now!!

Sir...

He said cold, with a facial expression like stone.

Your daughter had already made her choice.

He smiled triumphantly before his face turned into stone again. His eyes cold like eyes and his voice threatening.

And if you should do her any harm, no matter what, I swear by my life, I will find you wherever you are.
Top
Sir William Dormer
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:46 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 94
Member No.: 10
Joined: 15-May 11



Sir William could not help but a relieved sigh left his lips. So the Worst is avoided. Things can be made right. Jane got under the spell of this man, but she will be over soon.

Sorry, if I hurt your feelings again. I don't think low of my daughter, I think law of this world. And you know nothing about me and my feelings. And it's not your business. I just simply want to protect Jane. That's all.

I NEVER said she is my property. I said responsibility. I know she is a human being with a strong will... But our family holds together. It's just like... Would you act against you father's or grandfather's will? I don't think so.

My daughter is not a whore and never will be in my eyes. She is a bit mislead, but she will be fine.

He is a bit takeb aback, by Henry's words but doesn't show it. Maybe Jane promised him something, but she will change her mind.

Maybe, you may think that... But wait till I speak with my daughter. It's easy to make rush decisions. But they can be taken back as well...

He reached the last puint, he cannot control himself, he yells at Henry.

HOW DARE YOU THINK OF ME LIKE THIS! I WOULD NEVER HURT MY DAUGHTER! I LOVE HER! SHE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY LIFE SO YOUR THREAT IS ABSOLUTLY UNNESSESARY!
Top
Henry Cromwell
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:47 PM


Baron Cromwell of Oakham


Group: Admin
Posts: 189
Member No.: 13
Joined: 15-May 11



Wow, we have something in common, Sir William. We want protect her. But don't think your daughter can't protect herself or even make her own decisions. Yes, she is a strong woman and therefore you should have more confidence in her.

Henry added.

No, of course you didn't say property but you acts like she is your property, Sir William! And of course is family important, I didn't say it isn't, but there are times where we have to decide what is more important for us. And you speak as if she would be the only one who had to obey her family, but as you said, family holds together. So maybe you should accept her decision instead of being against it!

Henry crossed his arms over his chest and looked scornfully to Sir William. Of course, he would speak with Jane, but Henry was sure that Jane wouldn't betray him and would break her words towards him. At least, he hoped.

I don't think that, Sir, I know it. If you speak with her, then look at her right hand and you will know what I mean.

He said with calm voice until this man yelled at him. If there was ever something that he hated then it was yelling. There was a phrase: Who yelled was wrong! Therefore, Henry didn't yell back.

Alright, then I know that I haven't to worry about her, when you will speak to her. And I just wanted to make it more clear to you how I feel for your daughter and that I would do everything for her. And you as her father should be the one, who should be happy when your daughter is happy.

But I would not presume to put you as a father in question. I can only speak from my experience, and my father was happy when his children were happy. He has not interfered in our lives.
Top
Sir William Dormer
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:47 PM


Advanced Member


Group: Members
Posts: 94
Member No.: 10
Joined: 15-May 11



Don't worry, I do have much confidence in her. And I kmow she will make the right decision as she always did before. You think you know her just because of some months or years, I know him for twenty years!

Any decisions my daughter made I want to here it from her. And you know second thoughts can always come.

My poor fool little daughter... Is it true then? She said yes to... this? Never mind.... nothing is settled yet. He says very coldly to Henry.

I go right to my daughter. Whatever happened it doesnt count.... And I hope, the ring wasn't too expensive. As it was unnessery to buy. My daughter will never marry you. Never.

He walks slowly to the door.

I hope, soon this whole issue will be just a bad dream for all of us...
Top
Henry Cromwell
Posted: May 16 2011, 01:47 PM


Baron Cromwell of Oakham


Group: Admin
Posts: 189
Member No.: 13
Joined: 15-May 11



Nothing is too expensive for your daughter, Sir William and you should know that. And if it was necessary, let it be your daughter's decision.

Henry said dryly.

I just hope this meeting of us was just a bad dream, not the issue itself. Even if I had wished I could speak with you in a normal and friendly tone. For I was eager to know the man who raised such a beautiful and clever woman as your daughter is.

Henry followed the man, opened the door for him and led him out. He couldn't stay in his room and wait what will happen.
Top
InvisionFree - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Register Now

Topic OptionsPages: (2) 1 [2]  LOCKED NEW TOPIC NEW POLL


 
ANNOUNCEMENTS
Welcome to After The Tudors. We are an AU site which uses history as a guide, and takes aspects from the Tudors TV series, and the Elizabeth movies, but other than that, we are 100% AU. It really is up to you, the members, to decide what direction your characters and, ultimately, this site goes in.

As of now, Edward is dead, and in his place sits his devoutly Catholic sister, Mary. For months Mary has been hiding behind closed doors, in fear of the public she now has to rule, the majority of which are Protestant. Never imagining she would live to sit on the throne, the new queen not only has to deal with her people, but the secretaries who once worked so diligently for her brother. Between her citizens, and her council, returning to the old ways, and forging the bonds that were once broken with the Sea of Rome, will not be easy for the eldest Tudor, but she is determined to try.

It is currently March in 1552. There are currently Ten Females and Nine Males, and no character bans.

STAFF






AFFILIATIONS



Teardrop on Fire Banner2


  Affiliate Button
Imageshack

  Listed At




Credits
Sidebar: Dana @ RCR
Header: Mimmy @ RCR
Coding Help: RCR
Skin: Vagrant @ Caution! 2.0 Background: The Inspiration Gallery

And yes, we do look better in Firefox, not too bad in Chrome, but stay away from Internet Explorer!

CHAT BOX
/option % STATS %¢
Hosted for free by InvisionFree* (Terms of Use: Updated 2/10/2010) | Powered by Invision Power Board v1.3 Final © 2003 IPS, Inc.
Page creation time: 0.6653 seconds | Archive