10 & 11b The Return of Gandalf as White Riders, FINAL RESOLUTION

FINAL RESOLUTION ACHEIVED

GANDALF THE WHITE ( third part) : TTT CR DISC 1 TRACK 13

*Mearas.

Hie hine sàwon feorran..............................In the distance they saw him,
And hwíte sunnan in name. ........................White sun caught in his name.
Híe lange hine clipodon..............................Long they called him-
Ac hé ne wolde cuman................................But he would not come.
For þon hé wæs Sceadufæx........................For he was shadowfax-
Hálford ealra Méara....................................Lord of all horses.
And hé ne andswarode bùtan ànne..............And he answered to only one.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------




5:15
Hie hine (sàwon) feorran.
And hwíte sun(nan in name).
(Híe lange hine) clipodon.

5:33
Ac hé ne wolde cuman

And hé ne andswarode bútan ánne

5:56
For þon hé wæs Sceadufæx
Hálford ealra Méara.


"white sun in the distance.
they called him.

but he would not come.

and he answered to only one

For he was Shadowfax.
Lord of all horses"


subject edited slightly by magpie

minas morgul. I would like to have one thread for each scene that uses singing... not one thread for each track on the CR. It looks like you have two scenes in this post:

The Ents Wake up...

Shadowfax's arrival at Fangorn, movie cue.


Would you separate out the information for each scene and put it in it's own thread.

This thread can be for The Ents Wake Up since there isn't a thread for it yet.

But there is a thread for Shadowfax's arrival at Fangorn, movie cue: HERE
So copy off any information in your post above about Shadowfax's arrival and put it in a post in that thread.

We can discuss both the OST lyrics, the movie lyrics and the CR lyrics in the same thread as long as they're from the same scene and we are all clear about exactly what we're using to get timestamps.

Does this make sense?

hum !

really i should want it but what I propose is not very clear until the content be sure but I have done something from I suppose it is.

There is first lyrics for gandalf speking about the ent (white sun is for Gandalf I think)

The last part is for shadowfax (starting 5:56)

but, for what there is between I am not very sure that which part it is, though that is in the film for the entrance of shadowfax (while legolas speak)

but in the theme of the song and it's content there is from the begining to the end something like a mutual metaphore between gandalf and shadowfax .

that 's why I have named this whole part " the return of Gandalf as white rider", in fact the Ents is not the central theme though there are part of the "Nature Reclamation" that is an other face for gandalf with many others.

okay... it sounds like we need to go check the dvd... which I plan to do soon. So we can leave it until then.

I'm not looking for the purpose of the music so much as I want an quick indentifier of the scene so the casual reader of my site will be able to sort through the list and find the scene they're thinking of. So the titles are just a basic description of the action on screen.

Agree with minasmorgul, here are more accurate time stamps

5:15 Hie hine (sàwon) feorran.
5:22 And hwíte
5:25 sun (nan in name).
5:27 (Híe lange hine) clipodon.
5:33 Ac
5:37 hé
5:41 ne wolde
5:49 cuman
pretty sure about this part

5:53 And hé ne
6:08 andswarode
6:16 bútan
6:20 ánne
not so sure...

5:56 Sceadufæx(??)
6:00 Hálford ealra
6:05 Méara

words in parenthesis have been left out

05:15 hie
05:17 hi-
05:18 ne
05:19 fe
05:20 o
05:22 ran
05:24 and
05:23 hwi-
05:24 te
05:26 sun(nan) {~son}
05:27 cli/cli
05:29 po/po
05:30 don/don

05:32 until 05:36 ??
--------------------

maybe:
05:39 ac
05:40 he
05:41 ne
05:42 wol
05:43 de
05:44 cu
05:45 man

05:47 until 5:56 ??
maybe something of the phrase:
"and he ne andswarode butan anne"

wrong :

05:57 for
05:58 thon
06:00 he
06:01 waes
06:02 scea-
06:03 du-
06:04 fa-
06:06 ex
06:08 hla-
06:10 ford
06:11 e-
06:12 eal-
06:14 ra
06:15 me-
06:17 a-
06:19 ras {re}

Questions/Comments:
Sabsi,
I'm not sure how to read this part of your timestamps:
5:53 And hé ne
6:08 andswarode
6:16 bútan
6:20 ánne
not so sure...

5:56 Sceadufæx(??)
6:00 Hálford ealra
6:05 Méara

Are you saying there are two choirs singing counterpoint?


Either way, MM said at 5:56 he heard:
For þon hé wæs Sceadufæx
Hálford ealra Méara.

But Sabsi, even though you say you agree with MM, neither of your 5:56 really agree with what he has there. In fact, you don't have "For þon hé wæs" at all.

The other issue I have is this:
I have the phonetic lyrics for the LOTR Symphony. Because I had an impeccable and completely trustworthy source for the lyrics and associated information:

• I know these are legitimate lyrics.
• I know the symphony used the movie cue for this scene, not the OST cue.
• I know the CR-TTT is the same as the movie cue.
• Even though the phonetic syllables varied slightly from use to use (changing slightly how they would represent the word 'A' for example) the lyrics have all been adequately matched to the singing. There were two of us working with these lyrics - one a music and language student - and we found no mistakes.

Here are the phonetic lyrics from the symphony used paired with the probably real Rohirric words from the source text (The Mearas):
fawr FOR
thawn THON
hai HÉ
wah WÆS
tah SCEA
du-fachs DUFÆX,
thaa HLÁ
vawrd FORD
ähl rah EARLA
meh MÉA
rah RA
ahn ?
hai ?
neh ?
ahnd ?
deh

These should be the lyrics we hear on CR-TTT, A13, Gandalf the White 5:37 - end. I know that MM feels strongly that he has these correctly, but in order for me to accept that, I would have to accept:

• that the symphony lyrics were completely wrong in this case, even though they haven't been in any other case.
• that the singing heard in Fangorn Forest while they're talking about Ents is from The Mearas. I've stated my reasons why I'm reluctant to believe that in THIS THREAD

Hum !!

in fact for going directly to the goal of our purpose I say that :

In the dvd bonus of the Rotk Extended edition. that is a DVD where there are some part of the LOTR symphony. the part beginning at 25'50" and finishing at 26:30. is the same that is in the TTT-CR in "gandalf the White" beginning at ~5:53 and finishing at 6:23 (it's during 40 secondes).

so if you have all the phonetic charts of this part we have only to translate into the words that belong of the song Méaras.


Otherwise I don't think I have done a good time stamp for this part, it seem to me sabsi is more closer to the truth than me. at any rate for the time between 5:50 and 6:20. for "ac he ne wolde cuman" we have more convergent view.

After listening to this part on my recording of the symphony, I have to admit I was wrong
Now I'm pretty sure about:

5:37 For
5:41 thon
5:45 hé
5:49 wæs
5:53 Scea-
5:56 dufæx
6:00 Hálford
6:03 ealra
6:05 Méara

6:08 -warode
6:16 bútan
6:20 ánne

An other choir sings counterpoint:
5:53 And
5:57 hé
6:00 ne
6:04 ands-


Green = I'm sure

Here's where we stand on this.

First, although I would have liked two separate conversations about the two scenes found on this track:

5:15 - 5:37 - Falling of small stones/Ents will wake up
5:38 – 6:20 - Shadowfax's arrival

it was too hard to pull apart the pertinent info in these posts and put them in their own thread. Therefore, this thread will contain discussion about both scenes.

Second, in regards to the first section, 5:15 - 5:37, after checking in with a highly reliable source, I am ready to accept that the Ents scene uses The Mearas. Sabsi and minasmorgul pretty much agreed with in their time stamps (minor discrepancies due to the mechanics of the mp3 player, I'm sure).

Third, in regards to the second section, 5:38 – 6:20, we have the Symphony's phonetic lyrics which can get matched to Rohirric lyrics in The Mearas. Sabsi thinks she can hear these lyrics and has provided time stamps. mm was not sure what he could hear. Therefore I will go with Sabsi's accounting.

And, in doing that, I can declare the lyrics for both these scenes RESOLVED although the thread will remain open for further discussion.

From TTT Live choir lyrics:

[5:15] Hie hine (sàwon) feorran.
[5:22] And hwíte
[5:25] sun (nan in mane).
[5:27] (Híe lange hine) clipodon.
[5:33] Ac
words in parenthesis have been left out


[5:37] For
[5:41] thon
[5:45] hé
[5:49] wæs
[5:53] Scea-
[5:56] dufæx
[6:00] Hálford
[6:03] ealra
[6:05] Méara
[6:08] and
[6:11] hé
[6:15] ne
[6:17] and
[6:19] de

FINAL RESOLUTION