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 2. Lost in Emyn Muil, RESOLVED but not with choir lyrics
TTBK
Posted: Jul 4 2006, 08:58 PM


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THESE LYRICS ARE RESOLVED

From album track "The Taming of Smeagol", a possible alternate cue for Sam and Frodo wandering through the Emyn Muil.

Lyrics from The Seduction of the Ring

[0:26]I
[0:29]tuo
[0:33]i
[0:39]ma
[0:41]cil
[0:46]
[0:49]lel
[0:55]yat
[1:02]tr(?)



ttbk

(edited by Magpie to put number in subject heading and strikeout)
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Incanus
Posted: Jul 5 2006, 01:43 PM


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I honestly can't hear the Seduction lyrics in the piece. I am not sure what they are but the beginning is definitely not
I tuo macil...

I am sorry that I do not have suggestions to this one yet either. I will have to listen to it more closely. Perhaps these lyrics are not yet available to us.
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TTBK
Posted: Jul 5 2006, 02:08 PM


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You're sure? Hmm.

Perhaps I had one too many syllables in there....how about:
[0:26]I
[0:29]tu
[0:33]o
[0:39]i
[0:41]ma
[0:46]cil
[0:49]
[0:55]lel
[1:02]yat


Or perhaps it's the nai Corma macilya lelyat



My ears might just be wool though....



ttbk

(edited by Magpie to put in strikeout)
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magpie
Posted: Jul 8 2006, 12:11 AM


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I have to agree with Incanus. I don't think the lyrics from the Seduction are right. I am hearing completely different sounds that you've presented, TTBK.

There actually was some discussion about this music at SMME.

Ainu Laire heard this (phonetic sounds with some possible Elvish words suggested):

[0:27] Ooo () No, not
[0:29] kai ya (caia?) Dread, awe
[0:38] Aahh... nee(an-i?) for the/for what
[0:46] ??
[0:50] mey... lay/ley... (mela?) love
[1:02] mo/no?

My response to her suggestions:

QUOTE
I agree with the first three syllables and Do not dread could fit this scene very well.
I can hear Aahh... nee...
Can't tell what the syllable at :46 is nor at :50 (you could be right, I just can't confirm).
Lay/ley sounds right as does the o sound for the last syllable.

I could buy Do not dread.  The rest of the words are trickier.  We're not sure what we're hearing and we don't now how the syllables break out into words.


In "The Grace", the words 'An i" seem to be translated as "For what..."

In "The Destruction of the Ring", "Han i" seems to be translated as "This (is) the"

In "Aniron" and "Don't Let Go", the suffix "An' seems to translate as a form of 'desire'.
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minasmorgul
Posted: Nov 21 2006, 09:26 PM


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Lost in Emyn Muil 3/1

The Road to Mordor 1:26


Solo : L (i) caeda na nif (ta) i
coeur : pellen
solo : pellen Anor
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Sabsi
  Posted: Dec 7 2006, 09:33 AM


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Yep, I agree with Minas Morgul!!

1:26 lu (i)
1:29 cae-
1:32 da
1:38 na
1:40 nif
1:45 fir-
1:48 nen

after that, I can hear "-len"(1:54) and "an-"(2:00) so "pellen anor" would make sense..
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minasmorgul
Posted: Dec 10 2006, 10:39 PM


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Lost in Emyn Muil 3/1 TT Complete Rcordings

From "The Road to Mordor"

1:26 l (i)
1:29 cae-
1:32 da
1:38 na
1:42 nf
1:46 i
1:48 /pell-
1:49 /len
1:50 / anor ?
1:55 pel-
1:58 len
2:02 a-
2:03 nor
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magpie
Posted: Dec 31 2006, 09:16 PM


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A comparison of the two:

MinasMorgul_______Sabsi

1:26 l (i)_________ l (i)
1:29 cae-__________cae-
1:32 da____________da
1:38 na____________na
1:42 nf____________nf
1:46 i______________fir-
1:48 /pell-__________nen
1:49 /len
1:50 / anor ?
1:54________________-len
1:55 pel-
1:58 len
2:00________________an-
2:02 a-
2:03 nor

Differences in times:
I'm hearing something slightly inbetween the two time differences:
Sabsi's 1:54 & MM's 1:55
Sabsi's 2:00 & MM's 2:02

I think we just have a difference in the mp3 players calibration.

Difference in lyrics:
I'm hearing pretty much what Sabsi's hearing. The first part agrees with MinasMorgul, the last part... we're hearing fewer syllables than MM.

MM: you indicated solo and choir. I don't think there are any solos here. This is all choir. I think there might be counterpoint going on with two sections of the choir.

What are you trying to indicate with your backslashes?
/pell-
/len
/anor?

And is the question mark indicating you aren't sure about the last syllable or about all three? There are certainly notes there... and a softer section of the choir might be singing at 1:48 - 1:49 -and- 1:50. But I can't hear it.

You also have more syllables than Sabsi and I can hear from 1:54-2:03. I wish I could hear some hint of them or have the timestamps match up a little better.

Here's more what I'm hearing (and guessing about what I can't hear clearly). This is kind of between both of your submissions:

[01:26] l (i)
[01:28] cae
[01:32] da
[01:38] na
[01:41] nf (Ta)
[01:45] i
[01:48] pel
[01:54] len
[02:01] anor

The slight differences in times are due to my using a program to determine timestamps. I play the clip and click on the lyric when I hear it. It places the time stamp for me. So if I'm hearing it in the last millisecond before it moves from one second to the next, it places it at the earlier second. Someone stopping and observing their mp3 player might catch it just after it flips to the later second.

So:

Minas Morgul and Sabsi. Do you want to weigh in again about what you're sure you're hearing that doesn't agree with this.. or what you're not sure about... or whatever?
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minasmorgul
Posted: Jan 1 2007, 04:01 AM


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In this song I hear two group with voice(s) different

group 1 (the voice(s) is/are feminin anyway)
1:26 l (i)
1:29 cae-
1:32 da
1:38 na
1:42 nf
1:46 i

group 2 (the voice(s) is/are masculin and different anyway)
1:48 pel-
1:49 len
1:50 anor ?

group 1
1:55 pel-
1:58 len [weakly sung]
2:02 a- [weakly sung]
2:03 nor

What's lies ahead ? the fading (sun), the fading sun.


I am sure , exept for the "anor" of the group 2
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magpie
Posted: Jan 1 2007, 05:19 PM


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Okay... Sabsi, feel free to weigh in if you so choose. For the moment, here's where I'm going with this.

I'll credit Minas Morgul with thanks to Sabsi for her collaboration.

I'll put MM's version down with a note that I can't hear it all. (...not unusual, but I do feel it necessary to let readers know when I'm feeling sure and when I'm trusting someone else who feels sure.) And then I'll provide a link back to the thread so anyone who disagrees can answer here.

I hope you're getting a sense of how I work MinasMorgul. I am as thorough as I can afford to be. I need to feel pretty darn sure about something before I'll put it on the site and if I'm not pretty darn sure but I still want it on the site, I let people know about my reservations.

When I can't hear lyrics to confirm them myself (and like I said, this isn't unusual. I have a crappy sound system I work off of and a slight hearing loss), then I rely on the opinions of people I trust. If something sounds plausible and the person has a good reputation, I rest a little easier. If I can get three different people ... or even two saying they agree, I rest very easy. Right now we only have one.

And by reputation, it should be obvious from some posts on this site (and I would get many emails that were similar) that people can be terribly wrong. The wrong song even. When people are trying to make things fit, they let their ears deceive them. Once someone provides terribly wrong lyrics once (and I'm not talking here about figuring out the nuances of a piece... I'm talking about getting the whole source lyrics wrong), I am very cautious after that.
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Sabsi
Posted: Jan 2 2007, 12:01 AM


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1:26 - 1:42: I agree
1:46 not sure whether it's 'fir-' or 'i'

1:48 pel-
1:50 len
(I don't hear 'anor')

1:55 pel-
1:58 len (hard to hear, but I agree with MM)
2:01 (-probably difference in the mp3 players calibration) a- (but it's not 'weakly sung')
2:03 nor ?

I've listened to it over and over again rolleyes.gif and except for 1:46 and 2:03 I'm sure!
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magpie
Posted: Jan 2 2007, 12:25 AM


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Okay. Latest thinking. My contribution is good only for those easier to hear 'sounds'. A 'Pel' (in this case) would sound like a 'len' to me. I was just trying to make the 'sounds' fit with the lyrics.

If we eliminate the middle 'anor' which MM is unsure about, the difference between Sabsi and MM lies only in minute differences in timestamps. So now I'm feeling much better that two people who are listening carefully are coming very close to one another.

For what it's worth, something makes me hear 'fir' instead of 'i' at 1:46. But 'fir' would mean a jump forward then back in how the lyrics are written and 'i' would have the lyrics being used in order (with a few syllables dropped). For that reason, I'm going with 'i'.

And I cannot hear 'nor' at 2:03. In fact, I can't hear another syllable/note being sung. I'm not sure, Sabsi, if you can hear something but aren't sure if it's 'nor' or not. Of if you can't hear anything at all. But I'll put it in with a ?.

Shall we consider these RESOLVED in terms of what I need for my website? (And since I get to decide the answer is yes.)

The thread remains open for further discussion.
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